Author Topic: carb throttle shaft repair  (Read 676 times)

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Offline batboy

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2019, 03:48:16 pm »
I want to do this right, but I had so much time invested into those 36mm carbs that it was hard to let go. But, starting fresh was definitely the right thing to do. Although, it's getting really hard to find the 36mm carbs for a decent price. Looks like I'll be rebuilding another set in a few days. I'm down to only 1/2 a can left, so I better add Gumout Carb Cleaner to my shopping list.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 10:49:13 pm by batboy »
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
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Offline Lee

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2019, 06:46:41 am »
The pursuit of 36mm happiness is sometimes frustratingly happiness itself.............again good luck with this.

Offline Bud

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2019, 11:33:20 am »
Somehow I ended up on Mike Nixon's website the other day.  He has reproduction felt seals available in 3 or 4 sizes IIRC.
https://motorcycleproject.com/parts/felt_seals.html
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Offline batboy

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2019, 12:01:39 pm »
Good info, thanks, Bud. I bookmarked the site for future reference. I had already measured the shaft with calipers and it is 8mm. these felt seals are $5 each (ouch), but still a lot cheaper than the one other source I had found.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline connie_rider

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2019, 02:12:27 pm »
Changing carbs will put another variable in your project.
Your jetting may be getting close. 
Better to try repairing the carbs that are working first.

NOTE: "Felt" seals are not needed.
            Wrap the shafts with yard, or use string as MOB suggested and "grease" them {*per the instructions}.
             {Wrapped/packed yarn or string could also act as a bushing}


** Reproductions of the never-available-separately felt seals found on popular Keihin carburetors. Identical in every way to the originals. Grease them inside and out. May fit Mikunis and other carbs also.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 11:33:44 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline batboy

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2019, 03:44:50 pm »
I might play around with the old carbs while I'm waiting on the other set (delivery looks like Wednesday or Thursday now due to the holiday). Once I have both sets in hand, I'll make a final assessment. I'm in this for the duration. If changing carbs requires extra time and effort for fine tuning, then so be it.

Besides, all that earlier tuning was tainted by a vacuum leak. So, I pretty much have to start the jetting process over again regardless.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 04:27:48 pm by batboy »
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline Bud

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2019, 06:19:02 pm »
I'll say one thing for you.  You seem to have a remarkable amount of patience! :great:
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2019, 06:30:47 pm »
i think the term is "tenacity"...  :great: :great: :rotflmao:

just thought of another option, as I purchased some of this a while back, and it seems like it would work pretty well;

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Danco-Ptfe-Foam-String-Assorted/1085897

may take a really sharp razor blade, and some "tenacity" to get it to the correct length, and slicing the ends using an angled cut, so they overlap, kinda sorta... but I bet it would jam in there nicely, and still be slippery enough to rotate....
 ;)

oh, also, in light of Bud noting felt seals from Mike Nixon's site...
 I'll just toss this out there also, as I agree with Mike on this subject...   :truce: :truce: :motonoises:
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/felt_seals.html

Basically he is saying "$5 a pop....it's your money, and I'll sell them to ya..."  :) ;) >:D
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 06:50:41 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline batboy

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2019, 09:20:33 pm »
Not patience, not tenacity, just plain stubbornness.

After reading that link, I'm glad that I decided to get another set of carbs. My 32mm stockers work perfect and they are 31 years old. I just need to find a decent set of 36mm carbs that were on a pampered Ninja bike that grandma only rode once a week to church.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline Bud

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2019, 11:44:11 pm »
If you find a grandma like that, we'll throw her a party! :)
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2019, 11:57:40 pm »
I doubt you want to hear this, but...…
To me, the best thing to do at this time is re-install the stock 32mm carbs. {Yea, I know,,  :-[ :-[}
   You need to run them and find out if the cam, cam timing, or headers have improved or hurt the performance of the bike.
   While your doing it, find out what the AFR is with the stock carbs, and maybe re-jet them..
   After that is done, and you have information/base line; move to bigger carbs.

This is the only way you can find out which change (cam, cam timing, headers, or carbs) is effecting performance (and how).

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 12:50:14 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Lee

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2019, 09:34:12 am »
Thanks for Nixon's link. Might be useful some day. Book marked!

Offline batboy

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2019, 01:16:07 pm »
Ted, I did run the 32mm with my mods (cam and exhaust). It ran great. I'm confident the 36mm will work even better when I get a decent set of carbs and dial in the jetting. If not, I can always go back to the stock carbs. But, I'm stubborn and not ready to give up yet.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline connie_rider

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2019, 02:06:35 pm »
I realize you did run it. Not being negative.
 Have not seen a ride report/comparison?

ie; Did you compare the modified bike with the times you got before the work, or {more importantly} did you do roll-on's vs another bike?
     I ask this because;  Others have done the same changes, reported it ran great/fast, then discovered a stock Connie would pull
       away in a roll on, or it didn't work well on the road. {I was one of those people}.

My thought;
           On my C-14 I've gone thru multiple mods.
           At each step, I did (specific) roll-on's with a Buddy, and then swapped bikes to compare bikes.
            It showed us that some mods worked, some didn't.
           I'm suggesting you do something similar.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 01:45:41 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2019, 11:39:35 pm »
I recall that this whole "big carb" retrofit, was going to cause extreme headaches, and moreso, extreme "chasing the rabbit"..
I don't see Steve chiming in, but I'm sure he is rolling his eyeballs, and sharing somehat of what I am saying, about the rocky road to Nirvana..
as I said before.. we did everything to "try" it, and some sstuff "sorta worked', but in the end the engine without extreme mods, simply cannot utilize the increase.
 :'( :'( :'( :'(

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Offline batboy

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2019, 11:55:37 am »
I had some headaches with the ebay seller of a set of ZX1000 Ninja 36mm carbs. We finally got things straightened out after wasting a couple of weeks. Tracking says the package should arrive tomorrow. Once in hand, I'll take a look at them and to see if they're rebuildable. That was a mistake I made the last time, I just started rebuilding the carbs without realizing the throttle shaft was toast on one of the carbs.

I have been keeping timing records of 60 to 80 mph runs (WOT in third gear). I had made solid performance gains (lower times) every step of the way until I put the worn out 36mm carbs on. At first, it was too rich to even go WOT, so I didn't do any timed runs until after I had made jet changes. All that messing around and tuning was just a waste of time. So, I'm starting over with the 36mm carbs.

But, I'm getting ahead of myself. I need to get the carbs in hand first and see what I got.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline connie_rider

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2019, 12:27:23 pm »
Glad you got another set on the way.
Hopefully these are ok.

Good that you did some timing, but it appears your only doing high RPM pulls.
This shows improvement but ignores lower RPM's..

Sooo, Another suggestion;
   Start doing approx. 2500 RPM {X mph} - 80 MPH pulls.
   The lower RPM's will show you how the carbs are doing at low RPM.
    Plus longer pulls will allow you to see actual change better.

Ride safe, Ted

   
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Offline batboy

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2019, 03:30:23 pm »
I got another set of 36mm carbs today. They seem to be in above average condition. Slides work fine, the throttle shafts appear to rotate smoothly and have no free play. I see no missing parts, I took one bowl off and can tell it's been disassembled and cleaned before, but the screws and jets are in good shape, not all chewed up like the last set. I will be going through these carbs during the next couple of days. If possible and if all goes well, I plan to install them onto the bike on Sunday.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline batboy

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2019, 07:49:48 pm »
I've got the "new" carbs disassembled. Extremely clean. inside and out. Looks like this set of carbs has a DynoJet kit installed. The slide holes have been drilled out and it has adjustable needles and different diaphragm springs. The pilot jets are Keihin #35 and the main jets are DJ 136 (way too big). Low speed screws were set at 2 turns out.

Interesting, I was not expecting a DynoJet kit on a $77 set of carbs. Guess I'll try it with the kit installed except I'll probably use Keihin 128 main jets instead of these huge DJ main jets. The C-clip is installed on the middle groove on the adjustable needles. I think that's the recommended starting point.  I'm done working on them today. I'll get the float levels set up tomorrow.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline rgmr250

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2019, 08:45:47 pm »
I'm assuming you already know this, but just in case:
https://www.jetsrus.com/FAQs/FAQ_mikuni_vs_dynojet_vs_keihin_sizes.htm

According to their chart, the DJ 136 is equivalent to a Keihin 148.

You'd mentioned the DJ 136 was way too big, just not sure you knew about the sizing differences and how much bigger it is. If you already know this, then hopefully this is helpful to somebody else.
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Offline batboy

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2019, 04:28:16 pm »
Just an update, the second set of 36mm carbs are now rebuilt. I have just completed a leak test and float bowl level check. The carbs looks good to go. Since the carbs came with a DynoJet kit, I'm going to try it first with the drilled slides and lighter springs. Even if I go back to the stock slides and springs, I will probably continue to use the adjustable needles (which are currently set to the recommended middle setting). Those adjustable needles seem to be the prize with the DJ kit. I'm staying with the stock Keihin #35 pilot jets and I have Keihin #128 main jets installed. The slow speed screws are adjusted 2-1/2 turns. I'll post another update tonight.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: carb throttle shaft repair
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2019, 09:49:20 pm »
Here is a data sheet I compiled wayyyyy back, when we were doing our experiments, and it shows a breakdown on ALL of the individual parts for the early Ninja's, and also the C10 models, sold in North America...

I placed this also in the section where we keep bike data, in the archives for future use.
(It can be accessed here also)
http://forum.cog-online.org/fuel-cooling-and-oil-systems/

« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 09:54:39 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...