Author Topic: Carbs clogged up?  (Read 8583 times)

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Offline Volcantour

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2010, 03:21:08 pm »
Sure, just don't try to combine the steps!
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Offline Slybones

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2010, 11:45:10 pm »
Oh, that might explain a few things....
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2011, 12:33:57 am »
I really feel like the red headed stepchild, seeing as my friends never directed you to the Concourier article on this service.......no soup for you guys.//// :-X

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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2011, 01:47:48 am »
Might I suggest reading MOB's article in the Concourier about refurbishing your carbies?  It really is a good article and covers most of the bases from removal to replacement and all the little gritty parts in-between. 


But because we all develop different methods... Personally I like to leave the throttle cables connected to the carbs and disconnect them at the throttle.  I seem to always wind up in there anyways, so it just works out fastest for me.  I also roll and tape/tie the airbox boots on install which IMHO makes it as easy as it can get.  MOB's article gets the Rev Rider seal of SUPER KUDOS for taking a procedure everyone seems to hate and making it very doable for... well, everyone.

OK, so I'm late to the party.  There oughta be a little soup left.   ;)
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Offline smithr1

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2011, 07:00:34 pm »
The MOB article is in the fall 06 issue.
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2011, 07:26:04 pm »
The MOB article is in the fall 06 issue.
Has it been THAT long?  Dang, I'm MOB's gettin' old.   :D
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Offline troidus

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2011, 08:08:56 pm »
I wonder if applying the tip of an ultrasonic dental pick to the outside of the float bowl with the inside full of carb cleaner would vibrate the crap out of the passages?  Be nice to drain the bowls, fill 'em up with B-12, touch the carbs with the vibrator for a couple of minutes each, then drain, rinse, and drain and be done with it. 

Offline Zorlac

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2011, 08:53:49 pm »
"Be nice to drain the bowls, fill 'em up with B-12"

Although it's a great solvent, B12 unfortunately dissolves the plastic floats and attacks the float needle tips.
Seafoam would be OK IMO.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2011, 01:45:26 am »
"Be nice to drain the bowls, fill 'em up with B-12"

Although it's a great solvent, B12 unfortunately dissolves the plastic floats and attacks the float needle tips.
Seafoam would be OK IMO.

 of course we beat the horse on the other forum wherein I suggested that I suspect a correlation between seafoam and needle tip deformation. I was told that it won't do that. But monday I just did another set of carbs with tip deformation, and had to replace the needles. The owner asks me "do you think it's the seafoam? that's all I put in it" . HMMM I dunno - Zorlac says it's otay  >:D Steve
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Offline Colin

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2011, 05:54:52 am »
Anyone know what the active ingredient is in Seafoam?


One things for sure the higher the % of ethanol the higher the number of faulty carbs we are going to see!
Seems to me the only solution for the winter storage issues is to keep riding LoL
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Offline Zorlac

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2011, 08:52:03 am »
Maybe not Steve, but it's nowhere near as aggressive a solvent as B12.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 09:53:13 am by Zorlac »
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Offline oldsawfiler

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2011, 03:23:44 pm »
More than likely if you soak plastic parts in a 100% solution of any of these you wont like the results.
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2011, 05:16:17 pm »
More than likely if you soak plastic parts in a 100% solution of any of these you wont like the results.
That's a tough call.  These float valves in question are tipped in Viton rubber, a flourosilicone product manufactured by Dupont that is highly resistant to many things.  There are versions of this rubber that are good in temp range and others good at particular chemicals such as amines.  The particular versions that are designated suitable for fuel usage are better in alcohols than they are in gasoline as far as expanding of the material goes, this is by a factor of almost 50%.  So alky use isn't a detriment because of the Viton tipped float valves (though it is corrosive to the brass seat that the valve has to make a seal to).  The Viton is also not much more affected by other volatile organinc compounds than by gasoline though SOME chemicals that will be found in carb cleaners such as Toulene CAN exhibit slightly greater swelling by 2-3%.

Seafoam is nothing but rubbing alcohol and naptha with some light oil.  Seafoam is not AS likely to cause any swelling of Viton as Berrymans.  By the same token it is much less likely to clean your stuff without a longer exposure time.  It's ability to dissolve any particles besides varnish is pretty much non-existant.  It will clean what it was made to clean and cause little damage to plastics, Viton, though it will attack rubber and many O-ring materials as will Berrymans, though to a lesser degree.

Berryman's is primarily Toulene with other powerful solvents such as hexanes and acetones and methyl alcohol.  Berryman's would not be a prime candidate for a long soak as it is powerful stuff when compared to Seafoam.  Seafom is the "mother's milk" of carb cleaners.  Safe and gentle, but likewise, less effective.  Neither of these cleaners should have much affect on the plastic float materials.  If I was to accidentally get one of these liquids on my diaphragms, I would certainly want it to be the Seafoam as the diaphragm might survive.  However, IMHO, a long term soak of ANY aliphatic hydrocarbons (filling the bowls with Seafoam, Gumout, or Berryman's Chemtool) is likely to cause diaphragm and o-ring swelling even without liquid contact due to vapor concentrations that will permeate the carbs and the area they occupy.  Anyway, that's my 3 bucks worth.

Pull your carbs, dismantle them, clean them with the solvent of your choice, blow them out thoroughly with CLEAN compressed air and put em back in.  Ride and have fun.  Eat, drink, and be merry.  Pray and love each other and send me chocolates and money for Valentine's Day.  ;)
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Offline Zorlac

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2011, 07:44:18 pm »
I coulda swore that when I rubbed some B12 on my practice carb floats I could feel the plastic getting sticky and thought to myself, that ain't good.
I don't believe ethyl alcohol by itself is directly corrosive to brass, isn't it the water that the alcohol attracts that is what causes the corrosion?
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2011, 08:59:21 pm »
Here in Texas it's corrosive.  The State Energy Conservation Office requires the use of stainless steel for tanks and components that will be used for the containment and dispensing of flex fuels containing more than 20% ethyl alcohol due to its corrosive nature toward alluminum and mild steel.  THis means that E85 will have to have stainless underground tanks to hold it.

Most chemists will say that ethyl alcohol is reasonably non-corrosive.  And that is true, despite the presence of acetic and other natural acids, when it is in a pure state.  However, it's pure state exists only in a laboratory.  Once exposed to air, mixed with other chemicals, or put into a tank that has any substance (like gasoline varnish) whatsoever in it, various ions begin to collect and form that make advance its corrosive properties immensely and immediately.  Yeah, water in alcohol IS a primary corrosion agent.  But not because water is corrosive, but because it merges with teh acids in alcohols to produce very corrosive agents.  Water introduces both halide and oxide ions that remake the atoms of ethyl alcohol into a much more toxic and corrosive chemical.  So maybe ethyl alcohol is fairly benign in a pure state, but I promise you you have never seen it in one.

The same is true of methyl alcohols which I have a lot of experience with as race fuels, they're considered reasonably non-corrosive.  We would buy sealed containers of racing methanol (99.9% pure) and by the end of the day on a hot, humid day they might not pass a fuel check simply from having had the seals broken on a container and poured into an empty, dry fuel tank.  And the fuel tanks, pumps, lines, barrel valves, and pills would all have to be replaced regularly due to corrosion.  The purpose of the fuel check was to make sure we weren't adding oxigen bearing agents like nitro and these were a hydrometer check for specific gravity to determine purity.  Generally, if someone failed a fuel check, they weren't trying to cheat, they simply had water contaminated fuel from it sucking the moisture from the air which would cause the offending SG change as well as introducing oxygen to the fuel.  Adding water to the fuel never made anyone faster, quite the contrary, it got us disqualified and to top that it tore our equipment up. 

Alkys in the real world ARE corrosive despite any white paper that claims otherwise.  The proof is simply everywhere alcohols are used OUTSIDE a laboratory.
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Offline troidus

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2011, 01:06:30 am »
Pull your carbs, dismantle them, clean them with the solvent of your choice, blow them out thoroughly with CLEAN compressed air and put em back in.  Ride and have fun.

I'm just tired of having to do it after every ride.  (Now my rides tend to be at least 4,000 miles and cross international boundaries, but it's still just one ride.)  Prep the bike, ride partway, change the oil and maybe a tire, ride the rest of the way, maybe change a tire if I haven't already, then set the valves, clean the carbs, and change the oil again.  The bike has 27k on it and I've had the carbs cleaned twice and cleaned them twice myself, plus put a new set on, so the carbs have been fresh and clean six times in those miles.  I've also put two or three sets of plugs in it and replaced the plug wires, plus new airbox boots a couple of years back. 

The bike has sat for a year and a half because it's such a pain to keep it running smoothly.  If I'd known that this bike would need constant engine work, I would have never bought it. 

Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2011, 03:34:43 am »
Pull your carbs, dismantle them, clean them with the solvent of your choice, blow them out thoroughly with CLEAN compressed air and put em back in.  Ride and have fun.

I'm just tired of having to do it after every ride.  (Now my rides tend to be at least 4,000 miles and cross international boundaries, but it's still just one ride.)  Prep the bike, ride partway, change the oil and maybe a tire, ride the rest of the way, maybe change a tire if I haven't already, then set the valves, clean the carbs, and change the oil again.  The bike has 27k on it and I've had the carbs cleaned twice and cleaned them twice myself, plus put a new set on, so the carbs have been fresh and clean six times in those miles.  I've also put two or three sets of plugs in it and replaced the plug wires, plus new airbox boots a couple of years back. 

The bike has sat for a year and a half because it's such a pain to keep it running smoothly.  If I'd known that this bike would need constant engine work, I would have never bought it.
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Offline smithr1

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2011, 07:10:20 pm »
Pull your carbs, dismantle them, clean them with the solvent of your choice, blow them out thoroughly with CLEAN compressed air and put em back in.  Ride and have fun.

I'm just tired of having to do it after every ride.  (Now my rides tend to be at least 4,000 miles and cross international boundaries, but it's still just one ride.)  Prep the bike, ride partway, change the oil and maybe a tire, ride the rest of the way, maybe change a tire if I haven't already, then set the valves, clean the carbs, and change the oil again.  The bike has 27k on it and I've had the carbs cleaned twice and cleaned them twice myself, plus put a new set on, so the carbs have been fresh and clean six times in those miles.  I've also put two or three sets of plugs in it and replaced the plug wires, plus new airbox boots a couple of years back. 

The bike has sat for a year and a half because it's such a pain to keep it running smoothly.  If I'd known that this bike would need constant engine work, I would have never bought it.

My guess is you may not be cleaning the one passage you need to be cleaning well enough.  If you have let it set long enough to have varnish form in the passage clogging it completely then there is no amount of cleaner you can expose the ends of the passage to that will clear the clog.  If you are letting the bike site long enough to get that kind of varnish then that is why it has to be done every time you ride it.   It also could be what is in your gas tank causing it to clog after a good cleaning.  If the tank is crapped up then cleaning the carbs only gets you a good 1 minute before it could clog again.
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Offline doug

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2011, 07:42:08 pm »
Odd for me to hear the horror story of keeping the Concours running right. It must be the difference between running 50 miles twice a day for a week then weekend maybe ride, then another week of 100 mile days split in half rinse and repete!
I have 7000 miles I have put on Him and NO complaints or operating issues at all. I have done exactly 1 oil change with Kawasaki mfg oil and filter... Am I missing something?
It must be the Major trip, shut down for winter, Major trip, shut down for winter issues?
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Offline smithr1

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2011, 08:08:47 pm »
I just feel that with today's gas that you have about two weeks that the bike can sit unused and after that you ARE going to pay.  Things like bad petcocks, needle valves, rust in tank if not full and of course CLOGGED IDLE PASSAGES. 

Best answer.  Ride  your bike in less then two week intervals and keep tank full. 

Past that I turn my petcock to PRI  the day after I ride to refill the bowls and seat the needles good.   I think the hot engine evaporates a lot of gas from the bowl.  If it sits long enough... about a week I go back to pri to fill them again.  Just be sure to switch it back...(  In actuality I have a electric solenoid and just turn my key on)
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2011, 02:32:29 am »
Odd for me to hear the horror story of keeping the Concours running right. It must be the difference between running 50 miles twice a day for a week then weekend maybe ride, then another week of 100 mile days split in half rinse and repete!
I have 7000 miles I have put on Him and NO complaints or operating issues at all. I have done exactly 1 oil change with Kawasaki mfg oil and filter... Am I missing something?
It must be the Major trip, shut down for winter, Major trip, shut down for winter issues?
For the most part, the biggest difference is your bike is an 06 and Troy's is a lot older I think.  I don't work as good as I used to either... though my wife says I work about the same... not sure that's good or bad coming from her like that.  :-X
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Offline troidus

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2011, 03:55:41 am »
Nah, mine's an '04, so I can't really use that as an excuse.  When I get back from a trip it's generally in dire need of a carb sync (like hyper-buzzy unrideable bad) as well as other work, but I usually don't have time to get to it right away and if I let it sit for any time at all (like a week), it gets real bad real fast.  That was part of the reason why I once asked about installing spring-loaded dump valves on the float bowls, so I could get back from a ride and just reach in to dump the gas out of the carbs before it gums up.  I guess I could unhook the lines from the tank and run the carbs out that way, but that's a pain and takes longer. 

Offline WillyP

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2011, 12:29:29 pm »
Well, it's strange, mines an '88, I do absolutely nothing other than disconnect the battery and it sits in storage over the winter, I change the oil in the spring and it's good to go.  I cleaned and synced the carbs, and installed Steve's first kit and added a new fuel filter, shortly after getting the bike, but I've never even changed the plugs.
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Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: Carbs clogged up?
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2011, 01:05:12 am »
Sounds to me like you may need a fuel filter if you don't already have one AND you should do a complete carb re-build the before you ride the bike AFTER you install the filter.  If you DO have a filter, replace it AND the entire fuel line.  My Connie is a 2000 model and (because I've got other bikes I ride) it sits two to six weeks between trips. I do keep it full and I buy "quality" gas before I park it and I use Seafoam every 4-5 tanks but, since I re-built/cleaned my carbs using MOB's write-up (CONCOURIER, Fall '06) I've not had any problems.
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