Author Topic: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed  (Read 354 times)

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Offline Mudhound

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Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« on: October 05, 2018, 04:50:27 pm »
My 1997 C10 will not come out of first gear.  I was out for a ride, probably in 3rd gear, and tried to up shift and it wouldn't take. It just felt dead. I should note that on a couple rides before this, it had issues with up shifts, but I thought my boot was just hitting on something and it always shifted on a second attempt. So, I pulled over to look at the linkage, played with it a bit and in the process downshifted to second, but it would not up shift. At that point I rode home in second gear. Once home, I played with the shift lever again and it downshifted to first. It wouldn't up shift, or go into neutral. I then did some research on this site, felt fairly confident it was a linkage issue, probably a spring and took it to a shop. After a month in the shop, they've decided it's probably something to do with the shifting forks, and not a linkage spring. They are estimating 12 - 15 hours to open the gearbox and since that would cost $1500 - $2000, I should probably just take it home and shoot it. At least there aren't charging me for doing nothing. So, now what? Should I get a second opinion or accept that my motor is a boat anchor? Thanks. 

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 05:08:43 pm »
Don't shoot it yet. I think there are some easy to get at parts that may be your problem though you will have to wait for someone that has specific knowledge about it to come along.

Paging M.O.B., to the white courtesy phone, please.

Good Luck.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 09:03:25 pm »
My 1997 C10 will not come out of first gear.  I was out for a ride, probably in 3rd gear, and tried to up shift and it wouldn't take. It just felt dead. I should note that on a couple rides before this, it had issues with up shifts, but I thought my boot was just hitting on something and it always shifted on a second attempt. So, I pulled over to look at the linkage, played with it a bit and in the process downshifted to second, but it would not up shift. At that point I rode home in second gear. Once home, I played with the shift lever again and it downshifted to first. It wouldn't up shift, or go into neutral. I then did some research on this site, felt fairly confident it was a linkage issue, probably a spring and took it to a shop. After a month in the shop, they've decided it's probably something to do with the shifting forks, and not a linkage spring. They are estimating 12 - 15 hours to open the gearbox and since that would cost $1500 - $2000, I should probably just take it home and shoot it. At least there aren't charging me for doing nothing. So, now what? Should I get a second opinion or accept that my motor is a boat anchor? Thanks.

OK, DON'T SHOOT IT....
Now, here is 'your second opinion', IMHO the guys you took it to, are total dorks, and simply want to milk your wallet....
because, they HAD IT FOR A MONTH,  and never did anything... then they say it's forks..

first off, I'll explain something, in order for any upshifts past 1st gear, to occur, the transmission gears must be spinning, so trying to shift 'up' with the bike sitting stationary, should only allow it to go from 1st, to neutral, and back down... there are detent 'lockout' balls located in the gear drive, preventing upshifting unless that shaft is rotating.
Now, the most common (bent forks are very "uncommon" on this bike, unless you yourself have been banging gears without the clutch, repeatedly, so if you never did so, it ain't forks), failure is a displaced spring, or broken spring, or both, on the selector mechanism that 'drives' the camming action for shifting to occur. This whole mechanism is on the side of the engine case, and does NOT require the engines removal, and splitting of the upper and lower case halves, as you 'tech's' have predisposed was needed... it's a simple matter of removing the outer 'parts, and the bevel drive housing (about 1 hour max), to examine the drum, and shift lever actuator, and springs. (and another hour MAX to re-assemble). Upon examination it should be clear if this is indeed the issue, and in 90% of the shift failures reported here, and on the other forum, this was the 'zone' where a failure occurred... spring dislodged is the most common, and spring breakage, second, but in reality, it's about $30 max in parts.

Soooo, don't shoot the mule, it's not a big job to fix, and can easily be done in a 4 hour span, with little cost... it may take a day or so to get a part, if needed, but it ain't a $1500 job....

take that to the 'techs', and tell them they owe you a month's riding time for holding the bike, and never inspecting what I said above... they are jerks, and really don't want your business, just your money...
I've attached 2 pages below, for your examination of what I'm speaking of, and you can see clearly the area of the shift lever, and springs... read it....


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Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2018, 09:26:19 pm »
attached in addition below, is an exploded parts view, note there are 3 different 'coiled' springs, and also a flat 'arched' spring, all in the shifter actuator mechanism...

these, and the 'pin' that it rides on, all all points of failure which will prevent the actuation... again, I've personally never seen a Concours 'fork' needed, even on some severely abused bikes..

best of luck,

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
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Offline Mudhound

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2018, 09:53:00 pm »
Man of Blues - I agree that the shop doesn't want to work on it, but they also don't want my money. They basically asked me to just come get it and they won't charge me. 

I appreciate the diagrams and the info regarding the shifting forks. It was shifting fine right before this happened. I really think it's a spring (and so did the shop up until today). I'm worried about doing this myself, just because I know I'm not good with this sort of mechanics. Things usually come apart easily enough, but I can't get them back together.  I'm going to pick the bike up tomorrow and I might try taking it to another shop I've used with some success. If they aren't interested in checking the various linkage springs, then I'll bring it home and tear it apart myself. 

Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 10:34:30 pm »
They clearly wanted your money, don't mistake that.... that's why they quoted a case split, and costs associated, without even delving into the obvious...had you signed on a paper, they would have done what I explained, and billed you for $2k, saying they had to split cases.. no way...  and probably danced you around for another month in the mean time...

as for them not charging you.... I would be steaming mad, and make a point of being in the showroom, asking loudly "why you had my bike for a MONTH, and didn't even do a thing... charge you"????

Honest mechanics aren't all gone yet, some are still in business.. you need to find one, and asking around here for referrals in your area/local would be beneficial at this point...
post in the open area. general chat, and ask around...
This is a thing COG members (when you join the organization) do for all, as we hate to see people taken advantage of, many will offer to help walk you thru a repair over your shoulder, as this is not a really difficult one to accomplish... but over the internet, it is difficult, as the time back and forth factors in, and the people assisting can't see, and coach/point out, easily what is needed.

best of luck,


30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 01:13:13 am »
  Cliff, give us more info where you live in the southwest area. City or town perhaps. We have area Directors and members that may live in your area. Maybe some one close that can help.


    First thing is get your bike AWAY from that Shop.   ::) ::)  They sound like a bunch of monkeys that couldn't find a banana.

   Good luck and I hope someone in your will help you find a member in your area that can direct you.

    As MOB said it could be some thing that can be fixed very easily. I never had a problem with mine in over 20 yrs of riding other than the shift linkage on the shift lever.  :great: :great:
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2018, 01:57:52 am »
it's the little flat spring in the shifter linkage that rolls the shift drum. It's broken or popped out of place. Do yourself a favor, when you fix it use the different spring used in the zx11 / zrx engines. problem solved. Steve
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Offline Mudhound

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2018, 02:20:02 am »
Mettler1 - I’m getting the bike tomorrow morning. I’m thinking they haven’t really touched it, but I’ll know tomorrow. I’m in Fort Collins, CO, so if someone knows a good shop for these bikes in the area let me know. I can do some wrenching, so I might tear into it myself. It’s more about having the time and space to dedicate to the job. Steve - thanks for the tip on the spring. I’ll keep it in mind depending on how this goes. I’m happy the general consensus is that it’s not a shifting fork. That sounded off to me.

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2018, 02:46:20 am »
  Good luck Cliff. Your in the right place. Lots of info and most of it good!! That's why we like our C10's

   OOOH!!  Steve In sunny Florida knows stuff. :)


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'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2018, 02:55:28 am »
  Just look on radar. Up to my butt in Mich. AGAIN in rain!! Pretty soon I have to call my place in Michigan "SNYDER SWAMP"!!
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2018, 03:19:00 am »
it's the little flat spring in the shifter linkage that rolls the shift drum. It's broken or popped out of place. Do yourself a favor, when you fix it use the different spring used in the zx11 / zrx engines. problem solved. Steve


   Don't know if it's the spring that SiSF mention. But it is a start.

 https://www.ebay.ie/sch/sis.html?_itemId=271303834213&_nkw=KAWASAKI+ZX1100+D+ZX+1100+ZX11+ZX+11+94+93+TRANSMISSION+SHIFT+SHAFT+PAWL&_mPrRngCbx=1
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Online Victor Salisbury

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2018, 09:19:58 am »
Experienced the same non shifting thing. It turned out to be the D. Arm Spring in Shifter 1 .pdf  MOB provided
That spring is just basically a piece of steel (technical term) bent in a U shape. Getting to it was some work, but doable.

Good luck
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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2018, 10:18:57 am »
Mudhound, if you have given any thought to doing the "seventh gear mod" this would be the time to do it.

Also, as you are not experienced at getting to the area that needs to be accessed, you will have a few hours into this. And pay particular attention to that little pin on the driveshaft. Do obtain a shop or Haynes manual for guidance.

Do a forum search for seventh gear mod and/or bevel gear gasket. There could/should be a write up on what's involved with install/replace.

And do replace the bevel gear gasket with the metal one if it has not already been done.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
Tick Tock, baby (Ironbuttal)
Steve J  Tavares, FL, one of the Floriduh Steves
'15 Versys650LT, '98 KLR650, (back home), '99 C-10, 234k miles sold

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Connie Won't Shift - Advice needed
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2018, 10:26:47 am »
Mudhound, if you have given any thought to doing the "seventh gear mod" this would be the time to do it.

Also, as you are not experienced at getting to the area that needs to be accessed, you will have a few hours into this. And pay particular attention to that little pin on the driveshaft. Do obtain a shop or Haynes manual for guidance.

Do a forum search for seventh gear mod and/or bevel gear gasket. There could/should be a write up on what's involved with install/replace.

And do replace the bevel gear gasket with the metal one if it has not already been done.

   thanks Steve, except that I've suspended building 7th gear units until the move is complete and this place is ready for sale. Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
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