Author Topic: Continuing problems, now rev related  (Read 517 times)

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Offline crag antler

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Continuing problems, now rev related
« on: June 10, 2019, 07:25:41 pm »
Installed the new OEM petcock and spark plug wires and caps.
Idles fine but get up to around 2000-2500 RPM’s and it stops. Goes any higher and starts to sputter.
Cannot get any difference with throttle setting. Pulled carbs again and noticed nothing blocked.’
I’ve adjusted valves on loose side and installed the SISF performance exhaust sprocket.
Installed according to instructions and feel good about it. If timing was off, idle would be strong, correct ??
Sending the carbs to SISF for some magic :great: :great:
Doug aka crag antler
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Offline DC Concours

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 07:33:48 pm »
First time doing your carbs?

Offline crag antler

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2019, 07:50:23 pm »
Pulled carbs before and cleaned in pinesol/water 50/50 mix in my ultrasonic cleaned.
Always pull all rubber pieces and worked out well in past. 3rd time doing valves.
Doug aka crag antler
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Offline DC Concours

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2019, 08:08:00 pm »
Good that you can do some occasional cleaning at home. And at 60k miles Steve will fix them right up. He did mine so well I didn't even have to sync them afterwards.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2019, 08:36:07 pm »
when you installed the "new" wires, what kind did you use? i.e., stranded core, or automotive grade carbon?

When installing the "caps" did you press the wire "into the cap, and while pressing hard, thread the cap on/into the wire"?

the center "pin" on/inside the caps, is actually threaded, and must be pressed on the wire, and firmly threaded/twisted clockwise, to make that "pin" enter up along the internal core of the wire... it goes in almost 1/2"... so just "jamming" the caps on will never supply the correct assembly.

just tossing this out there.

I use 7mm Yellow silicone Accell wires, from a "kit", they are tinned copper stranded core wires.

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Offline crag antler

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2019, 08:46:41 pm »
Used Murphs kit. :great:
Threaded on as per the instructions.
Doug aka crag antler
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2019, 08:57:01 pm »
ok
we can remove that variable from the list

thanks for that.  :great:

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Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2019, 10:06:01 pm »
Are you getting to 2500 rpm under load or are you in neutral?
If you can't get it to move under load I would look for a missing vacuum cap or a vacuum leak at a hose or carb boot(s).
Good luck.
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Offline crag antler

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2019, 11:05:38 pm »
Under load.
In neutral not a problem.
Carb boots are 2-3 years old but I’ll check vacuum hoses.
Thanks
Doug aka crag antler
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Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 09:52:46 am »
When I had my vacuum leak I could rev it pretty good in neutral but trying to go up my driveway under load it would sputter and die out quickly, never getting to 2k rpm. So this may not be the issue. By carb boots I meant to also check that they are fully seated around the carb and air box and not pinched leaving a gap especially below where you can't get a full view of them. But missing them on your second carb install is not likely.
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Offline crag antler

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 10:48:24 am »
As a future tip for others, I found using tire spoons work well for getting the boots on.
No sharp edges to risk puncture. Always run my finger around prior to pushing the springs up to bright.
Going to pull the carbs this weekend and replace the 2 connecting vacuum lines and the one going to the petcock.
Have rubber caps on hand to replace. Just have to find them. ;)
Your issue sounds just like mine. Thinking about now, it does sound like a vacuum leak if I have no throttle control under load.
Thanks for the lead :great:
Doug aka crag antler
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Offline Stasch

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2019, 11:50:49 am »
Sounds like you changed multiple things at one time which can make it difficult to figure out the culprit.

Before you pull the carbs again, you can try to find vacuum leak(s) by spritzing specific areas with WD-40 or even a water mister while the bike is running.  You may be able to find a vacuum leak issue, or conclude you don't have one.

WD-40 will cause a rise in rpm's if it is sprayed on a vacuum leak.

Water will cause a fall in rpm's if it is sprayed on a vacuum leak.

A vacuum leak is more critical on the engine side of the carbs.
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Offline crag antler

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2019, 12:53:34 pm »
Thanks, I’ll try that tonight.
I changed the wires and petcock to eliminate those as the source of an initial slight idle surge.
One of the 2 remedied that. Most likely the wires as they were 20 year old OEM and I did find a cracked cap. The petcock replacement was due to my heavy fisted work when I tore the internal diaphragm. >:(
Doug aka crag antler
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2019, 08:24:23 pm »
vacuum leaks usually are identified by a lack of throttel to return to normal rapidly, not really what you are experiencing.. I'm leaning very much to a probable torn or pinched carb diaphragm up top.. that will prevent engine from raising rpm under load.  especially in that rpm range, when the slide should begin to rise... and "do it's thang"....

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and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline crag antler

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2019, 10:04:16 pm »
Once again Rich, you're correct.
Started her up and sprayed all around the carbs. Enough to truly hear a stutter if there was a vacuum
leak. Never changed a bit.
Pull the carbs this weekend and take a closer look at the diaphragms.
Let you guys know.

I'm learning more about the bike surprising as that is after 10 years of riding it.
That and continuing to value my membership in an awesome group of COGgers here : :beerchug: :beerchug:

Thanks again.
Doug aka crag antler
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2019, 10:15:29 pm »
As it was running ok prior to the petcock install;
  Have you tried running it with the petcock in prime?
  Have you confirmed that the vacuum hose to carb #2 is installed correctly?
      ie; 1 vacuum hose only. {we once had someone that T'd 2 vacuum line's to the petcock}
  Have you confirmed that raw gas is not flowing into #2 thru that vacuum line?

  Did you confirm the coil leads are correct?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline crag antler

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2019, 11:25:47 pm »
Prior to petcock install it had a slight idle stumble.
After install and new plug wires and caps no stumble.

Have not tried running in prime since above work remedied previous issue. How long can I run on prime and what effect does this have? Does it run on a different carb circuit or ??

Only one vacuum line to carb #2  and it’s from petcock. No tee or inline filters.

Have not confirmed if raw gas is flowing into #2 thru vacuum line. Procedure to check?

Coil leads are correct. 1 & 4 on left coil and 2 & 3 on right coil.

Thanks, Doug
Doug aka crag antler
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2019, 11:46:01 pm »
Prior to petcock install it had a slight idle stumble.
After install and new plug wires and caps no stumble.

XXX SO when did the problem start?

Have not tried running in prime since above work remedied previous issue. How long can I run on prime and what effect does this have? Does it run on a different carb circuit or ??

XXX Select prime on petcock and run as usual. Do NOT leave in prime when engine not running.

Only one vacuum line to carb #2  and it’s from petcock. No tee or inline filters.

Have not confirmed if raw gas is flowing into #2 thru vacuum line. Procedure to check?

XXX Disconnect vacuum line at carb and see if gas drips out. Our use a hand vacuum pump and pull a vacuum.

Coil leads are correct. 1 & 4 on left coil and 2 & 3 on right coil.
XXX I'm referring to wires to the coils... Sometime they are not plugged in well or poor ground.

Thanks, Doug
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Offline crag antler

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2019, 11:59:16 pm »
Noticed problem after idle stumble went away.
While I have the tank off, I'll recheck the coils' connections.
If fuel does come out of vacuum line from tank, what would cause this?

Now not to be a PITA but with planning on pulling the carbs this weekend to check diaphrams, what would I look for that could cause a rich condition?
When I replaced the wires and boots, I pulled the plugs and they had a slight black coloring. Could easily wipe it off and smell like fuel not oil. This leads me to think it also may be running rich. Sorry for not mentioning that prior.

I do apprciate all the help as I know it probably reads like I'm chasing my tail.
Appreciate the patience also.
Doug aka crag antler
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Offline turbojoe78_MA

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2019, 01:05:42 pm »
Crag,  you can check the diaphrams with out pulling the carbs.  Just remove the tank and remove the top of the carbs one at a time.

I used to do it when changing the needle position when tuning the 36mm carbs I put on my 99.
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2019, 01:49:15 pm »
A hole in the diaphragm would let fuel flow into the vacuum line.
It is not very likely, but a possibility.

If your seeing rich on all 4, it could be high float levels, or something incorrect in the carbs.
A little black is not a problem. If black and sooty, needs some attention.
Some have installed the needle jett in the wrong position.
Don't recall what problem that causes, but check the manual for proper install.

Rich or Steve is the best at carbs. Give one of them a call if all else fails.

Ride safe, Ted
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Gone but not forgotten; 87 and 00 Connies..

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Offline crag antler

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Re: Continuing problems, now rev related
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2019, 03:15:14 pm »
Thank you Ted.
I was planning on float level when I had the carbs out.
Good to know I’m in the right area. :great:
Doug aka crag antler
00 Kawasaki Concours 60,000+ miles. Bar risers, Murphs kneesavers, blockoff plates, allen head screw set,headlight upgrade. LED headlight, driving lights, JC Whitney trunk, Go Pro mount,’06 header w/Jet-Hot ceramic coating, over flow tubes and Performance Exhaust Sprocket by SISF