Author Topic: Coolant Leak Help  (Read 1844 times)

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Offline BB

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Coolant Leak Help
« on: November 22, 2018, 02:07:57 am »
Today I started working on the bike, figuring out a few things here and there. One visible issue at hand that needs attention is a coolant leak on top of the engine. At first when I purchased the bike I could only smell the coolant. A few rides in and I started to see some coolant droplets in the inside of the fairing. Today the leak was visible on top of the engine.

I was able to remove the tank to better located the leak, and from what I can tell it is a hose that connects to what it looks like possibly a thermostat housing - I am not 100% sure that is the thermostat. Assuming my assessment is correct, I believe I will also need to remove the coils out of the way to access the coolant hose? Anything else that needs to happen  in order to replace this hose? Any special procedure to remove the coils out of the way?

Also, where to purchase the OEM hose and clamps? If no OEM available, what is the preferred approach in this case?

I am also considering replacing the plugs and possibly the wires, engine allegedly at 37K miles. It seems to me that right now would be the perfect time for the job.  I will need to do a separate forum search for recommended plugs and wires, unless someone links me to a thread here!  :beerchug: :beerchug:

Thanks in advance!
BB
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Offline BB

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2018, 02:13:04 am »
Photo from above, shows the coolant hose below the coils and connecting to what it seems a thermostat housing:



Leak from hose is splashing up and running down to the engine cover:



This photo shows the coolant hose which seems to be leaking:
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Offline BB

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2018, 02:19:24 am »
Here is a video, which shows how leaky this is right now:

https://youtu.be/oyMuHukymLw
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Offline Mettler1

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2018, 04:45:20 am »
   You got a 20 yr old C10. Time to replace all the hoses!!!!  Get them here!!

  https://www.murphskits.com/index.php?cPath=1_105&osCsid=-vNiF7yNluzJxc2zSob93

   Murphs' sells good parts and ships fast!!! :great:

   Found out a long time ago don't go cheep. Do it right and enjoy your work!!!  :) :)


 

 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 04:50:07 am by Mettler1 »
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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2018, 09:56:08 am »
While you're in there, get a new O-ring for the thermostat housing.  When you split the thermostat housing, you will most likely find that the O-ring has turned to goo.  A brass brush for a dremel tool will work great to remove any corrosion in the O-ring groove.  You'll also notice a bleeder screw on the side of the housing.  Attach a hose to the bleeder and put the other end in the filler to remove any air in the system.  Hope that helps.
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Offline bajasam

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2018, 06:41:19 pm »
my thermostat oring was like jelly almost, whats the local theory as to why all the other coolant logs etc were in pretty good condition for being 20 yrs old??

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2018, 08:41:21 pm »
my thermostat oring was like jelly almost, whats the local theory as to why all the other coolant logs etc were in pretty good condition for being 20 yrs old??

that's only because the logs are bolted to the cylinders, but if you were to flex that log, or abuse it during the thermostat housing removal/reinstall, it would leak also.... BT/DT.... wrote a Concourier article about it.... called "Coolant Woes"....
My opinion is if you go in, and replace that gooo big o ring on the housing seam, also do the rear log rings, and the bottom ring where the housing attaches to the Log.... once you are in there, it's a no brainer that you don't want to revisit that headache again...
also, before putting the carbs back on, refill the system to insure nothing leaks, at the logs, or bottom o ring... otherwise you get to repeat the performance... again, and again...
 >:( >:( >:( :truce: :rotflmao:

While you're in there, get a new O-ring for the thermostat housing.  When you split the thermostat housing, you will most likely find that the O-ring has turned to goo.  A brass brush for a dremel tool will work great to remove any corrosion in the O-ring groove.  You'll also notice a bleeder screw on the side of the housing.  Attach a hose to the bleeder and put the other end in the filler to remove any air in the system.  Hope that helps.

I'm glad to see people heeding the advice I've tossed out here over the years, 2 of the photos in the o/p's posting I couldn't see, they didn't show up.. and the video seemed to show what I would have said was a bad housing seal... simply tightening the hose clamp may have shown this, or not, can't say...


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Offline BB

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2018, 12:36:36 pm »
   You got a 20 yr old C10. Time to replace all the hoses!!!!  Get them here!!

     Murphs' sells good parts and ships fast!!! :great:

Hose, clamps and thermostat ordered today!  :beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug:
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Offline BB

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2018, 12:37:59 pm »
While you're in there, get a new O-ring for the thermostat housing.  When you split the thermostat housing, you will most likely find that the O-ring has turned to goo.  A brass brush for a dremel tool will work great to remove any corrosion in the O-ring groove.  You'll also notice a bleeder screw on the side of the housing.  Attach a hose to the bleeder and put the other end in the filler to remove any air in the system.  Hope that helps.

I saw that bleeder and I was wondering what a bleeder was doing there! Genius, never came across one on a thermostat housing before!

Your feedback is gold, thank you very much!!!

 :beerchug: :beerchug:
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Offline BB

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2018, 12:41:46 pm »
2 of the photos in the o/p's posting I couldn't see, they didn't show up.. and the video seemed to show what I would have said was a bad housing seal... simply tightening the hose clamp may have shown this, or not, can't say...

MAN OF BLUES,

It seems like you are telling me something important but I can't understand or visualize what you are saying. Could you say it again with the understanding that I am partially less smart than average?

Thank you in advance  :great:

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Offline JPD

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2018, 03:00:25 pm »
The thermostat housing is attached to the rear coolant log, (metal pipe attached to the rear of the cylinders ). There are orings at the cylinder and at the bottom of the thermostat housing. Murph's has them all along with all the hoses. Unfortunately the carbs.have to come out to get access to the coolant log.
Get yourself a maintained manual so you can follow along with the advice, and read the COG articles recommend to you. More information than you can rember, don't know how MOB does it.

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2018, 03:21:02 pm »
  Old repair service manuals are available here.
   Don't know how serious you need it but it does help to have it if you plan on keeping and riding your C10. :great:

        https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=kawasaki+zg1000+manual&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=10063&_odkw=kawasaki+zg1000


  It don't have to be pretty. Just make sure it is a shop repair manual. Not an owners manual.
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Offline BB

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2018, 03:56:50 pm »
The thermostat housing is attached to the rear coolant log, (metal pipe attached to the rear of the cylinders ). There are orings at the cylinder and at the bottom of the thermostat housing. Murph's has them all along with all the hoses. Unfortunately the carbs.have to come out to get access to the coolant log.
Get yourself a maintained manual so you can follow along with the advice, and read the COG articles recommend to you. More information than you can rember, don't know how MOB does it.

Thanks for clarifying it.

I have purchased the thermostat from Murphys in addition to the hose and clamps already. I am NOT planning on touching the carbs and therefore not touching the "logs".

Can I still reach and replace thermostat and associated rings without interfering with carbs and logs?
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Offline JPD

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2018, 06:25:48 pm »
If you have all the plastic off, look at the cooling hose by the #2 header. It gets cooked from the heat and leaks. I did all the hoses on my  99 last spring, along with the logs and thermostat.
Not sure if you can get to the thermostat with the carbs. on. I think I looked at it several years ago and decided to wait until it leaked or the carbs. were off for other maintenance.

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2018, 06:45:20 pm »
The thermostat housing is attached to the rear coolant log, (metal pipe attached to the rear of the cylinders ). There are orings at the cylinder and at the bottom of the thermostat housing. Murph's has them all along with all the hoses. Unfortunately the carbs.have to come out to get access to the coolant log.
Get yourself a maintained manual so you can follow along with the advice, and read the COG articles recommend to you. More information than you can rember, don't know how MOB does it.

Thanks for clarifying it.

I have purchased the thermostat from Murphys in addition to the hose and clamps already. I am NOT planning on touching the carbs and therefore not touching the "logs".

Can I still reach and replace thermostat and associated rings without interfering with carbs and logs?

2 of the photos in the o/p's posting I couldn't see, they didn't show up.. and the video seemed to show what I would have said was a bad housing seal... simply tightening the hose clamp may have shown this, or not, can't say...

MAN OF BLUES,

It seems like you are telling me something important but I can't understand or visualize what you are saying. Could you say it again with the understanding that I am partially less smart than average?

Thank you in advance  :great:

second question first;
I can't see the second and third photo in your post, they come up nil.
My statement was about tightening the hose clamp, and seeing if it was the culpret, or if once tightened you saw leakage at the thermo housing also... which is common.

I'm still not understanding why you purchased a thermostat, hoses, and clamps, without actually finding where it was "really leaking from". Again, not seeing the photos I can't say, unless in fact, the only leak was a compromised hose, that had a hole in it where your red arrow was pointing.. if so, then proceed from there and forego the rest until further issues need attention, which happens often when the thermo housing is wiggled about, during a hose fix.

in addition to what you bought, might as well order the real things to complete the job... the main housing o-ring, the one for the bottom of the housing, and the coolant logs....
they are very low priced, so when I buy them, I double the quantities, just in case I damage one...it happens.... :'( :'(

92055-112 RING-O,53.5X2.6 1 req'd. big one on
thermo hsg
671B2525 O RING,25MM 2 req'd. (below thermo
hsg, &  also for tube on water pump)
92055-1282 RING-O 6 req'd (2xrear and 4xfront
coolant manifolds)

while it is physically possible to remove the housing, or remove the top section of the housing, with it still in place bolted to the rear coolant log, it is a TOTAL pain to do, and requires a lot of time and pain, as the access to the 3 cover screws is so limited it will take a half hour of fidgeting with them to get all 3 out using an end wrench... and then, the big O-ring I speak of, still needs to be cleaned out, there is no room up there to accomplish it correctly.... believe me, I've tried it..... also, access to the single bolt at the bottom of the thermo housing, with carbs in place, is also a real painful job, as it will take a large combination of the correctly sized 1/4" drive extensions in combination, to remove that bolt... then you drop the bolt and it's lost inside the dark recesses of the hidey spots on the engine, under the generator.. the housing itself MUST be removed to completely clean the o-ring groove, and also to replace that o-ring, and the one that is located at the bottom of it, which seals that tube to the rear coolant log. (seen in the second photo below..) Now, during all this grunting, and tugging on stuff, the rear coolant log seals MAY be compromised, but you won't know this till its all reassembled, and you add coolant... then.... you get to go thru it all over again... believe me when I say this,
repeating all this stuff 3 times to 'get it right', and spending 4 hours, wasting coolant, and cursing your sore fingers, when it could be accomplished in one hour if done as noted, will make you understand... I have done these enough times I can safely say, the fastest, and most reliable method is to remove the carbs... I know you don't want to hear this, but I'm just warning you from my own experiences, and time spent.
with the carbs in place, you cannot inspect, and clean what needs to be cleaned and fixed...
(again, the second photo below)...NOTE; that photo was taken of the only time I attempted to do this service with the carbs in place, and shows just how little can be seen of the effected parts, also the limited access, and the hidden "lower housing bolt hole"... I'll never repeat that experience again.
look at the photo below, you will kinda see what I meant about "is it really leaking from the hose/clamp, or is it really leaking from a failed main o-ring seal...?"..

what looks like bubble gum and RTV in the picture below, is actually the deteriorated big O-ring...  and at this point in the life of a Concours, every single one is similar, and waiting for it's failure time... they are all between 12 to 32 years old... I've seen them turn to gooo like this on 6 year old Conni's.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 08:04:51 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2018, 07:12:00 pm »
If you have all the plastic off, look at the cooling hose by the #2 header. It gets cooked from the heat and leaks. I did all the hoses on my  99 last spring, along with the logs and thermostat.
Not sure if you can get to the thermostat with the carbs. on. I think I looked at it several years ago and decided to wait until it leaked or the carbs. were off for other maintenance.

good additional point, for those doing the bottom hoses...
that hose MUST be tie wrapped to the adjacent steel coolant pipe it sits next to, to prevent it from touching the header... like in this picture below.

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Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2018, 10:11:49 pm »
If you have all the plastic off, look at the cooling hose by the #2 header. It gets cooked from the heat and leaks. I did all the hoses on my  99 last spring, along with the logs and thermostat.
Not sure if you can get to the thermostat with the carbs. on. I think I looked at it several years ago and decided to wait until it leaked or the carbs. were off for other maintenance.

good additional point, for those doing the bottom hoses...
that hose MUST be tie wrapped to the adjacent steel coolant pipe it sits next to, to prevent it from touching the header... like in this picture below.
I fashioned a shield made out of HD aluminum foil to shield some of the heat in addition to the zip ties.
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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2018, 04:06:20 am »
It's already been said here, but do ALL the coolant hoses. And the coolant logs too. You can get by with leaving the rears for the moment if you so desire, but fact is you'll have to do it at some point whenever you get the carbs rebuilt. You will be thankful you did it all.

Oh, and test with water first. It will take a couple of 'adjustments' to get it 100%.
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Offline BB

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2018, 01:56:30 pm »
second question first;
I can't see the second and third photo in your post, they come up nil.
My statement was about tightening the hose clamp, and seeing if it was the culpret, or if once tightened you saw leakage at the thermo housing also... which is common.

I'm still not understanding why you purchased a thermostat, hoses, and clamps, without actually finding where it was "really leaking from". Again, not seeing the photos I can't say, unless in fact, the only leak was a compromised hose, that had a hole in it where your red arrow was pointing.. if so, then proceed from there and forego the rest until further issues need attention, which happens often when the thermo housing is wiggled about, during a hose fix.

So my photos are not showing up?!?  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[  Quite the task to post photos here...

My hose 39062-1091 is clearly leaking, so I purchased the hose and clamps. The thermostat I purchased because of some previous comments suggesting to also replace it at the same time. Since there is a need to touch the carbs and the logs, I won't even be able to change the thermostat at this time. Not a biggie, I'll save the thermostat for the future when I have time and I am not working outside on the bike when it is 35F outside.

 :beerchug:
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Offline BB

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2018, 01:58:14 pm »
Not sure if you can get to the thermostat with the carbs. on. I think I looked at it several years ago and decided to wait until it leaked or the carbs. were off for other maintenance.

Got it, I am not even going to stress or try to remove it then. My priority is to get the bike on the road, as it is getting colder and I am planning a departure by December 15th.

Thank you for the feedback!
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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2018, 10:07:11 pm »


So my photos are not showing up?!?  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[  Quite the task to post photos here...


 :beerchug:



read this over closely, so you don't have further photo link errors.
http://forum.cog-online.org/forum-info/how-to-post-pictures/

good luck,

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Offline Larry_Buck_FL

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 12:35:32 pm »
Replacing the top bolts of the thermostat housing with allens makes later removal of the top cover easier. Not a snap, just easier. HTH
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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2018, 09:14:53 pm »
Replacing the top bolts of the thermostat housing with allens makes later removal of the top cover easier. Not a snap, just easier. HTH

 :??: :??: :??: :truce:

Really? or are ya messing with me..?            :rotflmao:

It's been a while since I god reach my bike in the buried darkness of my garage, and been even longer since I was in there looking at the thermo housing last..

IIRC tho, the one time I attempted to remove the top, without pulling the whole housing off, I had to use an end wrench, as there was not enough room above to fit a 1/4" grive socket wrench w/ an 8mm socket, nor access to get extensions and same wrench, to access the bolt heads due to the frame above it.. just out of curiousity I assume the same issue would exist using an allen head, and wrench tip/key, unless it was a stubby leg allen key (chopped off on the short leg)... no?

just axing... :??:

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Offline JimBob

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2018, 02:50:44 am »
MoB - I’m pretty sure I replaced my with hex too, stainless. The original soft Japanese screws just made me nervous.


I’m also pretty sure I was able to do the coolant log without removing the carbs, but it was very close, and the t-stat housing was off.


Lastly, I’m of the “if one rubber element in the cooling system is leaking, the other stuff is just as old and risky”. Plus these bikes are all what, ten years old minimum? I’d replace all the rubber and clamps, partly cause I’m lazy and hate doing things twice (like take off the darn plastics!)

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Re: Coolant Leak Help
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2018, 01:36:39 pm »
Quote
Lastly, I’m of the “if one rubber element in the cooling system is leaking, the other stuff is just as old and risky”. Plus these bikes are all what, ten years old minimum? I’d replace all the rubber and clamps, partly cause I’m lazy and hate doing things twice (like take off the darn plastics!)

This.   :beerchug:
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