Author Topic: Engine knock  (Read 1195 times)

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Offline Holliday

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Engine knock
« on: September 06, 2019, 06:25:25 am »
About half a mile after pulling away from my place I started to hear a horrible engine knock and after limping it home ( died twice) I put more oil in and (light white smoke came out I’m not sure what to do it was about 3000 miles since it’s last oil change ( my first time doing it) I’m a daily drive what is going on I’m stressed and I don’t have any real cash maybe 400 to dump into it

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2019, 12:16:41 pm »
Well that does not sound good. White smoke is not normally oil. That  might be raw  fuel or more likely coolant  .  My guess is you do not have over flow tubes installed.
Please tell me I am wrong and that  you do have overflow tubes installed.
What year bike?
How many miles?
How long have you had it?
Any strange noises starting the bike up recently?
Is your coolant low?
Is your oil level high?
Does the oil look milky in the sight glass?
Depending on your answers you may have to do a Bent Rod Test.
You should not start the engine and dump the oil out and look for metal in the oil.
White smoke AND a horrible knock.....$400 might get you a used motor from Ebay.

When you did your first time oil change did you remove TWO drain bolts or only one?

« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 12:29:49 pm by Daytona_Mike »
Normally aspirated engines have perpetual turbo lag
2000 Red C10 1052 kit 100+HP  + way more torque.
2008  C14 Silver Dammit Full AreaP- Flies are put back in SISF_Flash
2011  KLR650   688 piston ported and polished
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Offline DC Concours

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2019, 02:17:26 pm »
Sorry to hear that. These engines do not break that easily but when they do you might as well buy a new bike.

Like Daytona_Mike asked, we need more details...


Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2019, 09:42:44 pm »
About half a mile after pulling away from my place I started to hear a horrible engine knock and after limping it home ( died twice) I put more oil in and (light white smoke came out I’m not sure what to do it was about 3000 miles since it’s last oil change ( my first time doing it) I’m a daily drive what is going on I’m stressed and I don’t have any real cash maybe 400 to dump into it

I'm having a really hard time, with this rationality.

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2019, 12:00:04 am »
Need more info!!
Doesn't sound good.
  Hate to say this, but; {from the limited info we do have} May be, a valve adjuster that came loose, or a rod finally failed from an old hydrolock, or a bearing failure..

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 12:47:36 am by connie_rider »
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2019, 12:12:17 am »
 :a012:

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2019, 12:46:33 am »
Normally aspirated engines have perpetual turbo lag
2000 Red C10 1052 kit 100+HP  + way more torque.
2008  C14 Silver Dammit Full AreaP- Flies are put back in SISF_Flash
2011  KLR650   688 piston ported and polished
2011  KTM 530    This thing is FUN!!

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2019, 12:50:36 am »
About half a mile after pulling away from my place I started to hear a horrible engine knock and after limping it home ( died twice) I put more oil in and (light white smoke came out I’m not sure what to do it was about 3000 miles since it’s last oil change ( my first time doing it) I’m a daily drive what is going on I’m stressed and I don’t have any real cash maybe 400 to dump into it

I'm having a really hard time, with this rationality.
I forgot to ask him:  Did the low pressure oil light come on?                   

   'I have a rod knock!'---  Well keep running the engine but add some oil to appease the bearing gods....maybe it will go away.
Normally aspirated engines have perpetual turbo lag
2000 Red C10 1052 kit 100+HP  + way more torque.
2008  C14 Silver Dammit Full AreaP- Flies are put back in SISF_Flash
2011  KLR650   688 piston ported and polished
2011  KTM 530    This thing is FUN!!

Offline Holliday

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2019, 03:10:57 am »
The bike is a 2006 1000 withjust over 60,000 mile when i changeged the oil I did both plugs (I remember the mess) and used a littles than 4 1/2 quarts I believe it was the amount that was listed in the small bike driver hand book10-40, the oil light had started to flicker when I turned it off so last week I had put the final half quart inthe bike and had bought a quart to put in that day so uses it was low on oil but with no visible leaks had been riding strong and fast the day before I had noticed I had been pushing it closer to redline in lower gear and maybe not shifting a quickly as I should have been when the proublem happen my girlfriend was on the back and she said she had felt something shake in her foot when the knocking started I have owned the bike for a little less than a year and a half it’s naked so I did notice that I had not seeen any coolent in the resivour and that day I had ridden during heavy traffic and noticed that my shins where warmer than normal and I kind of just thought it was a hot day
When I got home I put the quart in the bike and that’s when I noticed the wispy white smoke

Offline Lee

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2019, 03:16:11 am »

Offline Holliday

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2019, 03:30:13 am »
But it was solid when I changed the oil the oil light never went on until about two weeks ago

Offline Lee

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2019, 03:46:55 am »
Too little oil lights that lamp or not enough pressure as it is. Not sure what solid you reference means.

If I read you right 4 plus quarts was too much. Adding a quart on fear was insult to injury making 5 plus and smoke due to that excess.

Most say here 3 quarts or so max at change.

No one is born engine savy. It is taught and learned. The guys here at COG will help you. Sometimes they forget when they knew little.

Sometimes maintenance skills are learned by hard knocks. The pun intended. Hopefully this is not the case here but does not sound good for you.

Offline DC Concours

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2019, 03:52:32 am »
You put too much oil. 3qt on new filter after draining both holes.

Why did you add oil? Did you lose oil?

Have you always been redlining the bike?

No coolant either.

 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Offline Lee

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2019, 03:57:45 am »
Also fluid level in overflow gets sucked into engine radiator when hot.
The level should be checked cold would be my thought. Filling when low and running just means fluid will read high next morning when cool.

Others here may offer better take on this.

If overheating then that is a different circumstance. Especially if no fluid level was checked cold.

If you keep your Concours read the shop manual cover to cover. That and read everything you can here. Make it a daily thing the reading. You will learn a lot. Things you may need later.

Offline Lee

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2019, 04:01:41 am »
Agin try this for a start on the read. Find one on antifreeze level here too.

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/oil-capacity/

Wealth of COG info here, on all C10 subjects. Good luck!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 04:35:42 am by Lee, Reason: Clarity and correct typo »

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2019, 01:19:51 pm »
C'mon guys. All of us have made a mistake. {Yea, I know this was a BIG one}.
My assumption is he had to ride it home as he had no other way to get it there?
ie: Get-home-itis...

Holiday;
As you can guess from the questions, limping it home may have/probably ruined the motor..
Bottom Line; When the engine makes a "horrible engine knock" shut it down!

It's sounding like grossly overfilled oil.
   {I've heard that is more damaging than too low of oil, but unsure what the damages would be if that was done}.

You gave us better info, but still need a bit more.
Did you check the oil by looking in the sight glass?
   {This "must" be done after running the engine and then checking the level within a few minutes. (before it settles out of the glass)}
     ie; Why did you think you needed more oil?
When it failed, was the engine running hot?
Was it still knocking when you got home?
Did the oil light flicker while running, at low RPM, or just as you shut it down?
Did the oil light stop flickering after you added the oil?
Is oil in the air box? {Indicates oil overfill}

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 02:25:30 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Stasch

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2019, 02:13:02 pm »
Quote
I've heard that is more damaging than too low of oil, but unsure what the damages would be if that was done.

Too much oil can cause it to aerate into foam during operation, resulting in oil unable to flow properly and loss of oil pressure which can cause the same damage as oil starvation from too little oil    :'(
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 02:20:18 pm by Stasch »
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2019, 04:55:23 pm »
That is interesting info on too much oil.  I would think the next advise would be to drain the oil and look for metal. The knock might not be a rod bearing. Maybe a cam lobe  got starved which makes that 'knack knack' sound. I know because I have been there. Used cams and followers are not expensive.

Red line-ing the engine wont hurt it  by itself but if it is being starved for oil from over filling  then sure..

I cant think of any other advice we could give as good advice has already been given.. 'Use the sight glass'
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 04:58:49 pm by Daytona_Mike »
Normally aspirated engines have perpetual turbo lag
2000 Red C10 1052 kit 100+HP  + way more torque.
2008  C14 Silver Dammit Full AreaP- Flies are put back in SISF_Flash
2011  KLR650   688 piston ported and polished
2011  KTM 530    This thing is FUN!!

Offline Tour1

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2019, 02:14:16 am »
Just one thing about the sight glass:
You can see the oil level when it is close to correct.
Too much or too little can look the same, like nothing is there.
A flash light helps especially at night.
On the C10 it matters a lot whether the bike is facing uphill or downhill, too.
It should be on level pavement front-to-back and if not on the center stand then balanced with one hand while checking the sight glass.
Pavement is level at the edge of a puddle, or along a line that a dried up puddle left behind.
1987 Concours

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2019, 01:55:49 pm »
Daytona made me think of something.
Where is the noise coming from?
If at the top, it may be valve/cam related "as he mentioned" and relatively inexpensive to repair.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Lee

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2019, 02:44:37 pm »
Some good advice here above. Would definitely drain oil, inspect, strain, and put 3qts back in.
Then start it and listen with a hose to ear to locate where noise originates. Who knows one might get lucky. Praying that be so too!.

To those guys that where verbally kicking on this poor man while he is down. Shame on you! Not everyone is born C10 savy......In fact no one is.

Offline Holliday

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2019, 11:28:59 am »
I really love this bike not just because of the power and speed she has and the ride being smooth as a Cadillac. But I have learned a lot from that bike and this fourm yes 3 months ago I changed the oil and and I put 3 1/2 quarts of oil in maybe .1 quarts low of the recommended amount and she has run amazing and honestly being able to keep most cars that test me on the LA freeways in my rear veiw. From the ground under the bike there has not been one drop of oil but I admit i find a little greasy dirty gunk when I give her a bath every 2 weeks
The time between the oil light coming on as I drove and the massive failure of the engine was within a week and I had ridden over 100 miles that day but had been home at least 4 hours before driving a half mile away on city streets at about 45 mph
I originally put 1/2 a quart of oil in when the light started to flicker and did not and the other quart of oil until after the engine failure I have added to much oil to a bike before and let it run just to burn some of the oil off ( since I didn’t know any about maintenance before this bike (I siloed oil all over my parking spot because I didn’t realize how much oil 3 1/2 quarts was) I really like this bike and will put another engine in her if I have to.
I believe something gave out this was not a progressive failure in my opinion I have a 8secind clip of the noise itsmakeing I just can’t post it because of the size

A engine swap might be next but I don’t have deep pockets and I have to get mobile for work

Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2019, 12:02:20 pm »
First off, oil capacity with filter change is 3 liters, but 3 quarts will be fine.

Second point, the 06 model is known to have oil pump issues, could be you're flickering oil light.
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Offline DC Concours

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2019, 03:00:17 pm »
Before you go swapping engines you need to find out what exactly is broken. If you are new to maintenance then an engine swap will be a big undertaking.

If you have to pay someone you might as well buy another bike and use this for parts.

Load your video on another site like youtube and link it here. This forum is good for text only.

Offline Holliday

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Re: Engine knock
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2019, 03:12:23 pm »
Ok so I see my first mistake stevenJ I under filled it by .3 liters so even by placing that half quart in it still wouldn’t have been a major overfill and today when I got home from work she started right up and and continued to run I’m going to drain the oil later tonight since I don’t want to let it run to long and possibly damage the engine further what issues should I be looking for someone had mentioned metro in the oil is a sign of engine damage and a friend said a milky consistantcy but I don’t know what that means I’m just really hoping to save her