Author Topic: First versus second generation Concours  (Read 5082 times)

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Offline V8shadow

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First versus second generation Concours
« on: August 08, 2012, 03:58:03 pm »

I remember when I was doing my research on the Concours.  I read an article that stated that the differences between the 86-93 versus the 94 to 2006 were very small.  Well, turns out they arent all that small after all.  I know I have mentioned more than enough here that I already regret getting the first year of this model due to a bunch of things that were either changed after the first year, or changed in the subsequent generation.  I would like to start a comparison thread of just what was changed.  I mean exactly.  Things like brake size, tire size, etc... whatever specs can be had.  I have looked and so far cannot find a comprehensive comparison.  I am already kinda planning an upgrade to the 94 and up models next season, but I must be honest when I say I have not even had my hands on a newer model to compare.  I would like to make this thread a very detailed side by side, from people who have owned both and really know, or just know by way of tech knowlege.  I would like to see all aspects covered.  This is no way meant as a slam to the older model, and will be a good reference for others looking to buy one versus the other.  I'll start.

86-93:  Flimsy and thin inner fairing panels with vinyl covers that snap into place over a recess for glove boxes.
93-05:  Harder plastic inner fairing panels with locking hinged covers for the glove boxes.
Ken
1986 Connie, "Broken Pony"

"Ignorance of the consequences should never be mistaken for bravery"

Offline Syntor

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 08:53:45 pm »
Often on the various Kawasaki C10 Concours/GTR1000 forums there is discussion
about what parts are interchangeable across differing years. The short answer is
most parts are interchangeable between most C10 model years.

There are some differences however, and I shall attempt to outline them.

Changes by Year

There were quite a lot of changes after the first 1986 A1 model

 1986 has cast iron (not stainless steel) front discs, all other years are stainless, and the discs are interchangable between all pre 1993 bikes.
 1986 has flat (not convex) rear view mirror glass
 1986 has a smooth finish on the pannier lids (not the wrinkle finish of all other years)
 1986 has lower handlebars, by about one inch, than all other years.
 1986 has an extra screw in the upper fairing inner.
 1986 in Australia has unrestricted carb tops and unrestricted (USA style) mufflers, and was therefore the most powerful GTR1000 sold in Australia.
 1986 center section fairings have separate vents, and are easily identified by the two extra holes in the radiator air outet.
 1986 left and right pocket covers are the vinyl press-stud types, lockable right pock started after 1986.

Between 1987 and 1993 there were no changes, other than the colour.


There were quite a lot of changes going into 1994
 New dash
 New dash surround
 New dash wiring harness.
 New dash support bracket
 New one piece fairing inners
 Bright chrome replaced brushed chrome on the mufflers.
 Stepped seat padding.
 New front brake discs and calipers
 New forks, deleted air preload.
 Wider front wheel
 New mudgaurd
 Dual clutch star springs and changed retaining nut (quite an important change because virtually all pre 1993 springs broke)

No further changes other than the mufflers, in 2005 the mufflers went to full
bright chrome.





Some other differences not by year.


On pre 1993 bikes all three calipers and disc pads are the same/interchangable.
1994 saw new front calipers. Rear disc, caliper and pads are the same on all years.

There are two quite different centerstands, which may account for the fact that
some Connies go up easily and others are a struggle. They are interchangeable.

There are two different belly pans, they are interchangeable.

There are two different headlights, the USA version has provision for an extra (parking light?) globe.

The early USA version has the reserve lighting device.

California gets the Smog version, which included the exhaust gas recirculation, charcoal canister, extra vent tubes on the fuel tank and different jet sizes. The rocker cover has two ports in it for exhaust gasses. Australia did not get any smog bikes.


There were 5 different muffler types they are all interchangeable between all
year models.
1. Brushed chrome               1986-1993 USA, Australia 1986 only
2. Brushed chrome with “pea shooter”   1986-1993 Australia, europe
3. Bright chrome               1994-2005 USA
4. Bright chrome with “pea shooter”   1994-2004 Australia, Europe
5. Full chrome                         2005      USA

1986-   USA   
18002-1649   MUFFLER,LH    
18002-1650   MUFFLER,RH    
1994-     USA
18002-1756   MUFFLER,LH    
18002-1757   MUFFLER,RH   
2003- USA
18090-1354   MUFFLER,LH    
18090-1355   MUFFLER,RH    
1994-2003 AUS
18090-1718   MUFFLER,LH    
18090-1718   MUFFLER,RH    
2005- USA
18091-0206   MUFFLER,LH    
18091-0207   MUFFLER,RH    



All painted plastics are fully interchangeable between all year models.

All tanks are interchangable between all year models (Cali Smog bikes have extra vent tubes).

All seats are interchangable between all year models.

All engines and drivetrains are interchangable between all years.

The black plastic inners are not interchangeable between pre and post 1993 bikes, unless the dash and its associated wiring and mounting is also changed.

Some bikes had additional coolant plumbing for carb heating/de-icing, very rare in Australia, may possibly only be some late model bikes.


The above may not be a complete list! Maybe this should be a sticky because it keeps coming up. :motonoises:



           
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 04:09:50 am by Syntor »

Offline Snarf

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 08:58:21 pm »
1986-? had a low beam head light warning
1986-? single odometer reset
1986-? different design in the side stand
Chris Lillie
02 concours (CC)
86 concours (spirit of cog)

Offline turbojoe78_MA

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 10:26:15 pm »
99 - 06  have different fork lowers?  (machined at the top with fork protectors)
1968 Honda 160 Scrambler,  Sold / 1979 Kawasaki SR 650, Traded in for next one,  1978 Kawasaki KZ 1000 Z1R Turbo Sold / 1986 Kawasaki ZX 1000R Ninja Sold / 1999 Kawasaki Concours Sold / 2014 Kawasaki Concours


Offline V8shadow

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 10:39:15 pm »
  So far......... from what I am reading, a 99-06 is the way to go.  I sure wish I had this info when I was shopping for one. 
Ken
1986 Connie, "Broken Pony"

"Ignorance of the consequences should never be mistaken for bravery"

Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2012, 10:42:03 pm »
The headlight warning light was actually a part of the pre 94 (93 and older) REserve Lighting Device. 
Ignitions switches changed in 94.
You CAN mount the late model plastics on older bikes, but even retaining the wiring will require some re-arranging of pin-outs and wire arrangement under the dash.
Later models get the extra screw in the dash that cannot be pulled without pulling the windshield first.
Seats changed at 94.
1986 bags also used a different key than "A" or "B".
Wiring harnesses changed many times in tiny ways, but within North American models they split at 94 as well with the early fitting early and late fitting late models despite some differences.  If one substitutes an early on a late model or vice versa, I can give you the instructions for doing so.  THe J-box, while still basically the same, has things routed through it differently.  THe main thing is the ignition switch needs to follow the harness. Eraly to early, late to late.
I believe the early mufflers are actually stainless rather than chrome are they not?  I cannot testify to that without digging one out and testing it.
The hinge joint in the 86 mirror is different than later models though the external appearance is the same.
Later model engine cases have larger bores where the cylinders fit than early models.  THis was a SiSF discovery that makes it appear Ma Kaw had ideas of going to a larger displacement OR simply retired older tooling in favor of newer ZX11 stuff.
Controls on the handlebars retained layout but were changed with the early/late model change.  THey will retrofit onto older bikes, but the pin-out MUST be changed on the throttle side control if you want the bike to run and not blow the mufflers off with godawful reports when attempting to start. DAMHIK
86 models (maybe some others) had more silver showing on the case (clutch cover) including the breather under the airbox.

I'm sure I'l think of more too.
Fortis non Ferox
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Offline V8shadow

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2012, 10:52:14 pm »
  At what point did they get away from the original style wheel?
Ken
1986 Connie, "Broken Pony"

"Ignorance of the consequences should never be mistaken for bravery"

Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2012, 11:17:23 pm »
  At what point did they get away from the original style wheel?
94 models were the first of the "late" models.  93's and prior had the original 6 spoke wheel, post 93's got the 5 spoke model.  THat was the same time MOST of the noticeable changes happened.  Different seat, gauges, forks, brakes, dash, etc.
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Offline xjdaver

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 12:33:18 am »
I have an 87 and have come to the same conclusion after researching brake, fork and front wheel upgrades. I also like the post 94 gauges better. So I'm saving my money for the next one. After all, I did get this bike cheap.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 12:14:04 pm by xjdaver »
87 ZG1000
82 Yamaha XJ550R

Offline bowtie39

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 02:49:13 am »
Not a big deal but the all chrome exhaust started with '05 model not '06

Offline SteveJ.

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2012, 01:24:30 pm »
There were changes, twice(I think(?)) in the cam chain tensioner. I dunno the years.

Also, as part of the fork change in '94, drain screws were eliminated, though some(incuding myself) have installed a threaded drain hole.

Elvin did a nice write up on the zggtr forum in the Wiki:

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=576.0

I think he has the year of the chrome mufflers at '04, I think(?) it's '05.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 01:38:02 pm by SteveJ. »
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2012, 03:31:41 pm »
First generation uses single piston floating calipers in the front on 270 mm diameter rotors.  Second generation uses 2 piston floating calipers on 300 mm diameter rotors.  Rear brakes are identical for all years except for finish.

The first generation uses a smaller front axle (15 mm vs 17 mm).

First generation front rim width is 2.15 inch, second generation rim width is 3.0 inches, both 18 inch diameter.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 03:35:59 pm by GF-in-CA »
Gary F.

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Offline V8shadow

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 02:52:26 am »
Yeah unfortunately that was not the elvin article I was privy to.  Instead I read the "what to look for in a used concours"  write up.  Oh well.  Regardless of how carefull I chose a bike.......spilled milk. 
Ken
1986 Connie, "Broken Pony"

"Ignorance of the consequences should never be mistaken for bravery"

Offline xjdaver

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 03:07:41 am »
Yeah unfortunately that was not the elvin article I was privy to.  Instead I read the "what to look for in a used concours"  write up.  Oh well.  Regardless of how carefull I chose a bike.......spilled milk.

After a lot of reading in this forum, I realized there were shortcomings to my 87.

After riding over a thousand miles the past 2 weekends, I realized its still a great bike.
87 ZG1000
82 Yamaha XJ550R

Offline CRocker

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 11:46:56 am »
Yeah unfortunately that was not the elvin article I was privy to.  Instead I read the "what to look for in a used concours"  write up.  Oh well.  Regardless of how carefull I chose a bike.......spilled milk.

After a lot of reading in this forum, I realized there were shortcomings to my 87.

After riding over a thousand miles the past 2 weekends, I realized its still a great bike.


Well stated...
 :great:


Offline SmokinRZ

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 01:29:29 pm »
I have owned both a 91 and an 05.  The biggest differences were the extra odometer and adjustable levers and no floppy guages.  I used the late model seat on both.  The only difference riding it was the early model was faster and smoother  >:( And didn't suffer from cam pitting.  I still thing the black with red pinstipe on the 92-93 is the best color.           

Offline SteveJ.

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 04:22:43 pm »
I have owned both a 91 and an 05.  The biggest differences were the extra odometer and adjustable levers and no floppy guages.  I used the late model seat on both.  The only difference riding it was the early model was faster and smoother  >:( And didn't suffer from cam pitting.  I still thing the black with red pinstipe on the 92-93 is the best color.         
Yes.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
Tick Tock, baby (Ironbuttal)
Steve J  Tavares, FL, one of the Floriduh Steves
'15 Versys650LT, '98 KLR650, (back home), '99 C-10, 234k miles sold

Offline V8shadow

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Re: First versus second generation Concours
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2012, 12:39:21 am »
Oh I am very happy I discovered this model bike, I just want To be totally educated next time around if/when I do decide to upgrade.  ;-)
Ken
1986 Connie, "Broken Pony"

"Ignorance of the consequences should never be mistaken for bravery"