Author Topic: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)  (Read 29945 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JDM

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 676
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 8877
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2013, 02:48:03 pm »
Steve, FYI I made up my stick coils including the wiring harness, installed them on the bike and have been running them for several years without any problems until last fall. I started having hot start issues with the bike. I first thought it was the battery as it was a 8+/- years old. It took me a bit of time to rule out the battery. As it turned out for me, the fix required having to go back and shield the 12 volt side of the stick coil wiring from the stick coil ground side. I shielded the wire using amalgam tape. This seams to have cured my problem. I think what was happening, even though the wires were insulated, they had come in to contact with each other causing some electrical noise thus affecting the igniter ground circuit. The fix you have found is easier than going back and shielding the hot wire and the ground wires from each other. Steve, I would have posted up about this problem I was having and what I did to fix my problem, but I really thought I was the only one who was having this problem. Steve, I will make you a deal. I will report to the site if I start having this problem again and you report to this site if you start having a problem with your fix. P.S. I only had this problem with using the stick coils. I also think if you have stick coils and a weak battery you will have starting problems more so than with OEM coils.       

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7910
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2013, 04:07:44 pm »
JF, I had the same issue years ago with my stick coils, exact same issue. Shut it off when hot, and it wouldn't restart. When it did, it was when I released the start button. I fixed it by putting the stock coils back on. I have a feeling this ground wire to the ignitor might be the answer, and yes, the stick coils are on right now.

I just spoke with 2fast, he told me that criuse controls exhibit grounding issues when folks have led's. apparently poor grounding has raised it's head previously. Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline Bergmen

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2390
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2013, 04:44:07 pm »
Cool man........this should be interesting. Will this be the three minute mod?????????

LOL, that's funny! We could call Steve the multi-minuteman (but not from Lexington).

Dan
--2014 Yamaha FJR1300A--
--ZGRX 1200 Concours (sold)--
--SPOOFAK Inventor--

Offline Dave Scott

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6840
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8603
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2013, 05:35:58 pm »
Cool man........this should be interesting. Will this be the three minute mod?????????

LOL, that's funny! We could call Steve the multi-minuteman (but not from Lexington).

Dan

at least you're not calling him the three-minute man!   :-\

Offline JDM

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 676
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 8877
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2013, 05:38:12 pm »
JF, I had the same issue years ago with my stick coils, exact same issue. Shut it off when hot, and it wouldn't restart. When it did, it was when I released the start button. I fixed it by putting the stock coils back on. I have a feeling this ground wire to the ignitor might be the answer, and yes, the stick coils are on right now.

I just spoke with 2fast, he told me that cruise controls exhibit grounding issues when folks have led's. apparently poor grounding has raised it's head previously. Steve

Steve, I assume you meant to say you re-installed the OEM coils on the bike to cure the start problem, but now you are running the stick coils again. Am I understanding this correctly?   

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7910
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2013, 07:24:08 pm »
Yup JD, you got it. Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline Outback Jon

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2206
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 9506
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2013, 07:25:36 pm »
Makes electrical sense, not being a PITA, but does this not do away with the safety feature on the side stand cutout, ie if you add a permanent ground, does that not then allow you to drive away with the side stand down?, or am I reading it wrong?
It shouldn't be a problem.  Though the sidestand shares the ground with the ignitor box, you wouldn't interfere with the sidestand's ground path by doing SISF's mod.
"Outback Jon" Gould *** South Cairo, NY *** COG #9506 *** 2006 C10 "Blueline" *** CDA #0157 
2011 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited - "Outback's Outback"

Offline JDM

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 676
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 8877
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2013, 09:16:39 pm »
Yup JD, you got it. Steve

Steve, would you do me a favor and take the 12 volt hot wire and the 12 volt ground from the stick coils and tape them together so they touch each other in a few places and see if the hot starting problem you experienced raises it's ugly head again? Thanks JD 

Offline cafefill

  • Mini Bike
  • **
  • Posts: 191
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 10349
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2013, 09:44:21 pm »
Great! One more thing on the "to do" list for this winter. I'm running stick coils, and have none of the described issues (that I'm aware of), but a little preventative medicine never hurts.
Thanks. Steve, for sharing this great tip.
Cafefill

Offline DVanecekOld

  • Mini Bike
  • **
  • Posts: 136
  • 2000 Concours 1970 CL350 project bike
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 11188
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2013, 09:57:42 pm »
ALL right guys, is anyone going to answer my question, "do I have the correct wire"  pretty please???

Offline mattchewn

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 5208
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 10993
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2013, 10:02:49 pm »
VisionDon,
No. wrong wire. You want the BLACK wire with yellow trace.  (solid black with a thin yellow line on it)
Matt
2018 H2 SXSE.  (FAT SXSE)
2011 GSX1250 FA
2009 Ninja 500R. (wifes')
2001 Bandit 650  (kids')

Offline Mcfly

  • Stayin' for the people....
  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3984
  • What've I done!?
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9921
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2013, 10:23:59 pm »
Makes electrical sense, not being a PITA, but does this not do away with the safety feature on the side stand cutout, ie if you add a permanent ground, does that not then allow you to drive away with the side stand down?, or am I reading it wrong?
It shouldn't be a problem.  Though the sidestand shares the ground with the ignitor box, you wouldn't interfere with the sidestand's ground path by doing SISF's mod.

There are still 3 paths to ground... 

A good idea would be to check where that Bk/Y connects to the engine/chassis to ensure
those ground points are ok...  a lot riding on that Bk/Y wire, even w/o the Igniter.
2016 BMW S1000XR Premium in Alpine White aka 'Spooky'

SOLD: 2006 Concours aka "Connie"

FL/SE Assistant Area Director

Offline JDM

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 676
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 8877
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2013, 10:29:36 pm »
Mcfly, That is some good advice. Thanks JD

Offline WillyP

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6133
  • Live Free Or Die
    • Suncook Carpentry
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 8799
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2013, 12:41:30 am »
ALL right guys, is anyone going to answer my question, "do I have the correct wire"  pretty please???

I covered this a while back:

In other words, don't get the black with yellow striped wire confused with the yellow wire that has a black stripe.
Smart people look like crazy people to stupid people.
pics

Offline Hazy

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1449
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 10534
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2013, 05:43:30 am »
For those of us not that electrically inclined, would love to see a pic of the splice and where the ground is actually placed. I want to do this mod so need it as simplistic as possible.

 :-[  >:D

And here I thought every last mod had been discovered on this bike and SISF does it again. The Jedi Master of the C10!  :great:
North Central Area
COG#:10534
CDA# 0423 "Please... don't judge :("
2001 Kawasaki ZG1000 Sonic Blue  - "Mae"
2014 COG Silver Dammit Rally Greeter - Come say HI!!!

Offline Smooooth

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 754
  • Syracuse, NY
    • The Kaw Barn
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 10396
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2013, 07:31:19 am »
Perfect Timing!!!!

Since the 99 Winter Project is pretty much down to the frame, I can do this within the next couple of weeks.

I promise to document with pictures.

Also, I will tear into the wiring diagram and look for other possible, simple, ground mods.

Thank You for the great find Steve!!!

Stephen

98 C10
73 Honda CT70
'The Kaw Barn' on Facebook

73"s de WA2FDU

Offline stevedap

  • Scooter
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 10998
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2013, 02:24:29 pm »
Brilliant discovery!

 :great:


Started removing the black tape at the connector. Very brittle and came off in pieces. Decided to wait till its a little warmer before continuing. Minus 20 in the garage today.   
“Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.” --- Henry Rosovsky

"The task is... not so much to see what no one has yet seen, but to think what nobody has yet thought, about that which everybody sees." --- Erwin Schrödinger
____________________________________

Offline Easy13

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • '05 ZG1000 Concours "Harlow's Revenge"
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: 11001
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2013, 02:53:34 pm »
SiSF does it again!  I'll have the ground mod done later today and try to get it out for a short (and very cold) test run.  While I've not had any problems with my stick coils, more spark is more spark and I'll go to great lengths for throttle response.  Thanks for your input as well, JDM, I'll go back into the coil harness and better isolate the leads for "cleaner" power.   :great:

I love this forum!   :1rij:
Cognito Ergo Wrenchum

Offline capmfries

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2013, 04:21:26 pm »
Ok I'm not electrically inclined so don't judge...But do you run the extention from the 4" of wire coming from the plug to the battery or from the wire going to the plug?

Offline WillyP

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6133
  • Live Free Or Die
    • Suncook Carpentry
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 8799
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2013, 05:12:29 pm »
Actually, you should probably connect both. If this ground wire is floating above ground, it means everything else on that ground are being deprived of full power, too.

And, this:

A good idea would be to check where that Bk/Y connects to the engine/chassis to ensure
those ground points are ok...  a lot riding on that Bk/Y wire, even w/o the Igniter.

What Steve is really offering is a shortcut to fixing the real problem. The real problem is either that the ground wire isn't so well grounded, or that it is a combination of small wire size and length that chokes the flow of the electricity back to the negative side of the battery.

Adding the extra ground is like adding an extra exit from the freeway, directly to a place where the traffic was going anyway. Sorta.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 05:19:43 pm by WillyP »
Smart people look like crazy people to stupid people.
pics

Offline Oldspeed

  • Tricycle
  • Posts: 34
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2013, 06:40:16 pm »
Snowing today so out to the garage ,find volt meter, check out the ground to ignitor!   Meter set on mV reading .060 at connector ground.  Hummm I don't understand why any micro volts at all ???  So I go ahead and do the cut and wire direct to battery.
       Meter now reads .000 mV at connector.
Gotta say that that throttle response seems improved and yes the idle as well.
       
       Keep in mind , the main ground to the engine is UNDER the air box and ground to the wire harness is at the coil mount area under the tank.
       Only two grounding locations,,when these get dirty everything else suffers.
 
SISF find is icing on the cake !!

        Can someone explain the minute amount of voltage in the negative ground ???                 
Steve's 7th Gear,Sprocket and Power jet. MurphKits Powerlet, AudioVox,Grips,Burgman SpinOn, KB Risers & Fork Brace, Datel volt meter, Hella FF50, 80/100 watt, Sonic 1.1 w/R/T Emulators, ZZR1200shock, ClearView,Zumo 660,Eclipse,Shad42

Offline brenton

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 9
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 10679
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2013, 07:12:41 pm »
I just finished this improvement.  Yes, better starting and idle response.
I made pictures:  https://plus.google.com/photos/113983732863910305771/albums/5957339646247648321

Thanks to SISF for finding this and letting us in on it.


Offline Kwaksam

  • Kwaksam
  • Moped
  • **
  • Posts: 249
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2013, 08:07:47 pm »
Apologies Steve, just had a chance to check out the ignition circuit diagram. Now I realise that the safety cut out circuits all work the same way, ie if the stand is down or clutch not in when out of gear, the safety circuits pull the Green/black wire of the ignitor down to ground potential, thus killing the spark, as you say the IC ignitor is permanently connected to ground via the black/yellow wire. Always good to make sure connections are free of corrosion and making proper contact......
When its in your blood, you never turn back....

Offline Oldspeed

  • Tricycle
  • Posts: 34
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2013, 08:11:49 pm »
  Had to go back out and fire up after the mod...I really think she's runnin on combustion instead of compression...........thanks Steve   :great:
Steve's 7th Gear,Sprocket and Power jet. MurphKits Powerlet, AudioVox,Grips,Burgman SpinOn, KB Risers & Fork Brace, Datel volt meter, Hella FF50, 80/100 watt, Sonic 1.1 w/R/T Emulators, ZZR1200shock, ClearView,Zumo 660,Eclipse,Shad42

Offline Smooooth

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 754
  • Syracuse, NY
    • The Kaw Barn
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 10396
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: FREE POWER (you're gonna like this one!)
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2013, 08:17:20 pm »
I did not do the complete mod today - but - took a bunch of pictures that will get you 90% the way there.

The final step of attaching the supplemental ground wire can be performed a couple of different ways.  The 'Tap' style connections are easier for those that may not be comfortable soldering.  The best method of course would be to solder the new wire in place.

First, lets find the Igniter and the wire in question.  The Igniter is mounted on top of the inner rear fender underneath the seat.




From there you can just pull out the connector.




Now is a good time to look at the pins on the Igniter and make sure they are clean.  The Black Wire with Yellow Stripe is connected to the single male pin on the left side in this photo.



This is 'THE WIRE" you are looking for.




The following photos show two different options of 'TAPPING' into the Black/Yellow wire.







This is another option




Again - The preferred method would be to graft (solder) another wire onto the Black/Yellow wire and re-tape well.

The lead going to the battery just needs to be long enough to route cleanly and have a Ring Connector either crimped or soldered in place.

I hope this helps!!!!

Stephen


98 C10
73 Honda CT70
'The Kaw Barn' on Facebook

73"s de WA2FDU