Author Topic: Front Brake Conversion  (Read 2926 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jwh360

  • Mini Bike
  • **
  • Posts: 172
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: 10578
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Front Brake Conversion
« on: April 29, 2013, 03:17:06 pm »
So I've read all the posts about converting the front brakes to the Nissan or Tokico 4-piston calipers, but still don't know who is currently making adapter plates for 94-up Connies.  So what I want to know is this:

Who has the adapter plates available and what calipers work with the adapters?

Do they work with the stock rotors?  If not, then what rotors work with the stock wheel?

What pads are used?

Trying to do this on a budget, so no new rotors at this time.  I'd like to use my nearly new stock rotors if possible.
SW-AAD SoCal - 2012 Concours 14, 1979 RD400F Daytona Special

Offline GF-in-CA

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1360
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 03:54:02 pm »
SV Racing is still selling the SV/ DL adapters.

http://www.svracingparts.com/products/#!/~/product/category=472406&id=1632836

They will require spacer washers for the caliper bolts.

You can also ping BluRipper to see where he is with his adapters.

HTH,
Gary F.

1998 ZGX1100
Central Valley California

Offline JPavlis_CA

  • San Jose CA
  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2262
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: 2293
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 04:13:40 pm »
As an alternative to upgrading the calipers and rotor, why not change the master cylinder to a modern radial pump design? 

Here's an interesting article on the process and results from Motorcycle Consumer News, November 2012

Radial Pump Master Cylinder Swap
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/Nov2012Tech.pdf
All God's male children tend to be low-life, sleaze-ball, early apexers - Terry Earwood, Chief Instructor, Skip Barber Racing School.

Offline Wess

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
  • I had sooner lose my arm than live under tyranny!
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 8010
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 07:54:06 pm »
As an alternative to upgrading the calipers and rotor, why not change the master cylinder to a modern radial pump design? 

Here's an interesting article on the process and results from Motorcycle Consumer News, November 2012

Radial Pump Master Cylinder Swap
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/Nov2012Tech.pdf


Curse it all I thought I was running out of farkles! 

I have always thought the brakes were the weakest part of the bike, and even with 6 pots off a busa on the front and a oem front on the rear, I still have never been happy with the brakes.
Respectfully Yours! 
Wess Heavner 
Independence, MO 
COG #8010 CDA #0239 ROK# ROK100027795  AMA# 2952749 IBA #38420 2009 Hard Luck Award Winner!

Offline turbojoe78_MA

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 883
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 8645
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2013, 08:51:06 pm »
As an alternative to upgrading the calipers and rotor, why not change the master cylinder to a modern radial pump design? 

Here's an interesting article on the process and results from Motorcycle Consumer News, November 2012

Radial Pump Master Cylinder Swap
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/Nov2012Tech.pdf


Looks like I might have just found this years fathers day present.
1968 Honda 160 Scrambler,  Sold / 1979 Kawasaki SR 650, Traded in for next one,  1978 Kawasaki KZ 1000 Z1R Turbo Sold / 1986 Kawasaki ZX 1000R Ninja / 1999 Kawasaki Concours / 2014 Kawasaki Concours 1400  COG memb# 8645


Offline Edward

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 359
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: 10829
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 09:19:23 pm »
I read this document a few days back and was wondering if anyone had done this to their C10?


Seems like a great upgrade, and I am wondering about 1) how well it works and 2) how it looks on the bike. Seems like it would streamline it, you know, high speed, low drag!


 >:D


Seriously, farkelitis...



Offline jacksdad

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2018, 10:20:35 am »
Hi, has anyone got an update on this subject please?
Tried replacing everything on my 95 fronts, and the lever is still coming back to the handgrip... :truce:

Offline RWulf

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1701
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 7122
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2018, 12:46:41 pm »
jackdad, if that is the case something is wrong. Have you tried SS brake lines.
Any brand will be better than the OEM lines. I put some 6 piston calipers on
my bike 10 years ago. I can darn near do stoppies now. I made my own appapter
plates and used some calipers off a Suzuki 600.
And (sorry) I no longer have the the equipment to do this again.

Offline Pbfoot

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1293
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 10807
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2018, 12:58:32 pm »
Try zip tying the brake handle closed overnight. Should get the rest of the air out of the system..
If you don't have time to do it right, when do you have time to do it over.                                                                17" wheels, Nissin 4 piston calipers.1kg Sonic Springs.Cartridge Fork Emulators. KB Brace. Galfer brake lines  Free power mod.

Offline Steve

  • Tricycle
  • Posts: 13
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 12718
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2018, 02:07:33 pm »
This may be overkill but I had Performance Machine make me a set of 320mm floating rotors, adapters and rotor hubs and polished differential bore calipers for my 93. It was a direct bolt on using the stock master cylinder and ss lines all around. The stock tea cup saucer rotors and single piston calipers just didn't do it. Two finger stops and modulation are so easy now. They saved me at Laconia Saturday night when a deer decided to see what all the noise was about and stepped out in front of me. This conversion was done many years ago so I don't know what today's cost would be...

Ride safe, Steve

Offline jacksdad

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2018, 02:13:12 pm »
Already done, thanks, always try that trick, removes air from the upper part of the brakes.
I've just noticed, when I pump the brake lever, I can hear a 'sqeulch' sort of sound coming from the RH caliper.  :o
Maybe its leaking under pressure? I've tied up the lever again, and stuffed all round the caliper pistons with clean kitchen paper, will check again later and see if any fluid is leaking  ;D

Offline jacksdad

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2018, 02:20:41 pm »
Hi Steve, thinking you have the earlier model than mine: Its a 94 A9, with twin piston Tokico calipers. I'm getting stressed now because I've fitted 2 entire brake systems now, (used parts though) and both have the same fault! I've fitted rebuild kits to 2 cylinders which appeared to be perfectly fine, just incase, and still no joy. I don't like rebuild kits tbh, never had total faith in them.
I'm sure its possible to find decent 4 piston calipers and brake cylinder to go with the standard 300mm floating discs  :-[

Offline Steve

  • Tricycle
  • Posts: 13
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 12718
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2018, 03:58:51 pm »
I'm not sure why all the problems bleeding the systems on the older bikes. When I installed the PM brakes on my 93 I bled them w/o a pressure bleeder using the tried method of pump up the lever and release the bleeder. I use a clear tube to see the air bubbles and when it's clear, done. The master cylinder is the oem from day one. I do change the fluid every few years and bleed the same way. No issues. I'm in the Corvette/Ferrari/Porsche service business and I do a lot of brake conversions and common servicing on brakes. The corvette master cylinders are prone to soft pedal syndrome if the master cylinder is not bled first. On your bike (if not already done) I would route the master cylinder hose back into the mc and slowly work the lever until all the air is bled out using the fluid in the cylinder as an air block. When you are sure no air is left attach the lines to the calipers and bleed as I suggested. I use DOT 4 on all the cars I service and my bikes too. Decades ago I converted my new KZ1000 to dual front calipers and master cylinder and bled the system as per above and never had a problem. To quote General George Patton... "If everybody's thinking alike someone's not thinking"...

This is only based on my experience in the business. Good luck.

Online connie_rider

  • "OtP" {retired/assistant} Slave Labor
  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 8633
  • Help us make "OtP" possible! "AGAIN"
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 4154
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2018, 08:30:01 pm »
Jim Snyder found an adapter that allows the use of the newer "Radial Style" 4 pot/calipers.
  {He can supply that info later}.

The beauty of this adapter is; You can use the stock rotors now, and/or upgrade to larger rotors later without having to buy another adapter.
  ie; All you have to do when you go to a bigger rotor is get longer bolts and a few spacers.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 01:43:03 pm by connie_rider »
14 Connie (Traveler II) / 03 Connie (Buddy)
Gone but not forgotten; 87 and 00 Connies..

If your not already a COGger, "consider becoming one".
Help us make "OtP" possible again!!

Offline jacksdad

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 01:25:36 pm »
Thanks Ted, appreciate your help.
I've found a leak from one piston, brake fluid is just visible on clean paper towel, that must be why I keep losing the brake.
I'll fit new seals to all 4 pistons, and report back  ;D

Offline worncog

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1644
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9584
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2018, 01:56:49 pm »
I'm running radial calipers and 310mmm rotors on my 2006 C10. REAL brakes on the front now. Brackets came from a Chinese machine shop, imagine that.

The challenge was getting the speedo cable routed properly. Ended up using a cable extension and relocating the 'pin' on the speedo drive.
BullFrog, BMWNEF Rally, ...MABDR??

'14 S10, '06 C10, '02 TTR250, '74 R75/6 Hack

Online connie_rider

  • "OtP" {retired/assistant} Slave Labor
  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 8633
  • Help us make "OtP" possible! "AGAIN"
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 4154
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2018, 02:00:25 pm »
Worncog, can you please supply info on where to get the {radial} Caliper Brackets?
Those appear to be the same ones Jim used.

Ride safe, Ted
14 Connie (Traveler II) / 03 Connie (Buddy)
Gone but not forgotten; 87 and 00 Connies..

If your not already a COGger, "consider becoming one".
Help us make "OtP" possible again!!

Offline worncog

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1644
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9584
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2018, 02:45:37 pm »
Wait, where did THAT photo come from... Here is a pic of mine, albeit leaking final drive fluid, with the left side and 'longer' speedo cable arc represented.

These are similar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GSX1300-ZX7R-9R-12R-Bandit-ZRX-Nissin-Tokico-Brembo-Adapter-Hanger-Bracket-108mm/223016174358?hash=item33ecccc316:g:1DQAAOSw7FRWYP1b

I can't find a record of the bracket purchase, as it has been a couple years. I think I may still have the information for the speedo cable extension in my files. I will say that it took quite a few emails to communicate the fact that I was modifying a ZG1000 with ZX9 310mm rotors to get the correct spacers for the bracket-to-caliper interface. Still ended up with the wrong spacers and had to machine my own to get the proper spacing. Sweet once it was finished, but it was not a simple plug-n-play. Speedo extension is a must have as the angle of departure at the speedo drive unit is quite sharp and will accelerate cable wear and subsequent breakage.
BullFrog, BMWNEF Rally, ...MABDR??

'14 S10, '06 C10, '02 TTR250, '74 R75/6 Hack

Offline Mcfly

  • --2006 Concours--
  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3756
  • What've I done!?
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9921
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2018, 10:06:14 pm »
Just repaired my Tokico soft brake lever a few weeks ago.  When I got the used calipers
off ebay, I cleaned the calipers out completely and replaced the seals.  Turns out, the pistons
needed to be replaced, as even after cleaning and wet sanding them it did not stop pressure
loss.  Now I have a rock solid brake lever. 

Performance -- Rear: C14 Shock - Front: Sonic 1.1 w/emulators, Fork Brace - SISF Jet Mod & Ex Cam Sprocket - Tokico front brakes
Comfort -- Russell Day Long - Madstad - Cruise Control

FL/SE Assistant Area Director

Offline jacksdad

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2018, 03:25:54 pm »
Doing the same! The pistons are all good, they have no scoring or pitting at all: hence me just rebuilding the calipers. I did buy a complete front brake assembly off ebay as it had braided steel hoses.
Just got a full set of seals off ebay, 4 seals and 4 dust seals for £8.95 delivered.
I'll replace the lot, and see how things go from there  ;D

Offline Mcfly

  • --2006 Concours--
  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3756
  • What've I done!?
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9921
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2018, 09:01:05 pm »
Doing the same! The pistons are all good, they have no scoring or pitting at all: hence me just rebuilding the calipers. I did buy a complete front brake assembly off ebay as it had braided steel hoses.
Just got a full set of seals off ebay, 4 seals and 4 dust seals for £8.95 delivered.
I'll replace the lot, and see how things go from there  ;D

Get some "red grease" for re-assembly of the calipers.  It is designed specifically for the pistons/seals, and makes
the re-assembly very easy, and will protect the seals over time.   :great:
Performance -- Rear: C14 Shock - Front: Sonic 1.1 w/emulators, Fork Brace - SISF Jet Mod & Ex Cam Sprocket - Tokico front brakes
Comfort -- Russell Day Long - Madstad - Cruise Control

FL/SE Assistant Area Director

Offline jacksdad

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2018, 12:04:23 pm »
Yep, already got some RRG (red rubber grease). There is a seller on ebay UK that sells small tins of every grease made, I've also got some nickle based stuff, like copper grease, but for stainless and high temp use, alloy grease, and another I can't recall! I'll post a link if I can find it again  :great:

Online CRocker

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2150
  • '02 C10 CDA # 416
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2018, 11:18:28 pm »
Ted,

That photo worncog posted looks like it’s my bike...would’ve been Jim’s bike...between the discs, 17 inch front wheel, and the brackets...well, and the fact that he doesn’t know where the picture came from...I’d just about bet on it...unless I’m missing something...

Online connie_rider

  • "OtP" {retired/assistant} Slave Labor
  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 8633
  • Help us make "OtP" possible! "AGAIN"
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 4154
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2018, 11:32:29 pm »
Could be. Only Jim would know.

Ted
14 Connie (Traveler II) / 03 Connie (Buddy)
Gone but not forgotten; 87 and 00 Connies..

If your not already a COGger, "consider becoming one".
Help us make "OtP" possible again!!

Offline Jim Snyder

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1388
  • Oops, my Connie turned into and FJR !!!
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 7055
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Front Brake Conversion
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2018, 12:37:27 am »
Yes that is the picture of the setup I did.
"Some days you're the windshield, and some days you're the bug" Get used to it cause thats life !!!