Author Topic: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10  (Read 824 times)

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Offline Lee

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2018, 05:28:27 pm »
  "To get the correct  rebound damping (extend open once and not oscillate)   I had to go all the way up to 50 weight fork oil.   
That was the best I ever got the front suspension.  You also have to upgrade  the stock rear shock  too. "

Wow 50 weight! And I was worried about going to 20 weight from 15!!!! Thanks for this info.......got to luv COG.

Also Race Tech indicates weight of oil controls last 30% of dive on compression in their tech notes if memory serves.

Offline Onkel Udo

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2018, 06:32:07 pm »

I installed them in a Suzuki SV650 which also has 41mm forks, worked fine.

http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/SV650/forkEmulators.html


Thanks for this, I think I will end up C10 tester #2 for these as I just ordered those, the 1.0 Sonic springs, 15 weight as well as new busings and seals.  Since my 1995 just blew all its coolant onto the exhauast on the way home yesterday, I decided to no longer try to "make through the season before doing X" since it will be down for a full set of coolant o-rings, hoses, overflow tube carb bowls, etc.

Still have not decide on rear suspension but figure one big improvement at a time to gauge effectiveness.

Offline GeorgeRYoung

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2018, 01:34:48 am »
Installation in a Concours:
http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/forkUpgrade.htm

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2018, 12:51:22 pm »
Thanks George. Good info..

Repeating my earlier post;
  Does anyone know if the fork caps from the later C-10's will fit the early models??

Wondering if the Post 93 fork caps could be installed on an 86 so that pre-load adjustments are possible?
I realize that the springs may need to be cut to correct the spring length..

Ride safe, Ted

« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 04:38:31 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Lee

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10 Useful Race Tech links
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2018, 04:30:39 pm »

Thanks all for sharing! Found oil tuning discussion points interesting. Thinking about going above 15 weight now.

Also for those who do not have this already from Race Tech:

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulator%20Tuning%20Guide

http://racetech.com/download/InstructPDF/IP%20FEGV%20S%20Emulator-STREET.pdf

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2018, 04:51:52 pm »
Alternative damper valves:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/V-Twin-41mm-Fork-Damper-Valve-for-Harley-24-0361/292607819257?epid=671622052&hash=item4420c8fdf9:g:AGMAAOSwkKBbJuS7

I installed them in a Suzuki SV650 which also has 41mm forks, worked fine.

http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/SV650/forkEmulators.html



Thanks for this, I think I will end up C10 tester #2 for these as I just ordered those, the 1.0 Sonic springs, 15 weight as well as new busings and seals. 
Still have not decide on rear suspension but figure one big improvement at a time to gauge effectiveness.


Please keep us posted on how the damper valve/etc work's out for you.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 12:37:08 am by connie_rider »
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Offline Mettler1

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10 Useful Race Tech links
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2018, 09:30:59 pm »

Thanks all for sharing! Found oil tuning discussion points interesting. Thinking about going above 15 weight now.

Also for those who do not have this already from Race Tech:

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulator%20Tuning%20Guide

http://racetech.com/download/InstructPDF/IP%20FEGV%20S%20Emulator-STREET.pdf


   I went with the 15W  several yrs ago.. Worked well for me.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2018, 09:32:23 pm »
Yes, i said 50 weight.  There were a couple us back in the day who tracked the C10 for fun and we kept testing and going up until we could stop the 'hobby horse' rocking effect (and nose dive).  It wasn't until we got to 50 weight but it  still didnt stop it completely because they dont make anything higher than 50 weight fork oil or i would have gone higher.
15 and 20 weight wont do anything to stop/slow down rebound- that weight  is oil  used for  valved shocks.. we have emulsion tube shocks (not one valve in there). Been there done that !
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 09:35:28 pm by Daytona_Mike »
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Offline GeorgeRYoung

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2018, 11:28:33 pm »
. . . we have emulsion tube shocks (not one valve in there). . . .

I believe there's a valve inside the bottom of the fork tube, see:
http://www.racetech.com/HTML_FILES/DampingRodForks.HTML
called a 'Rebound Check Valve'.

Offline Mcfly

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2018, 12:50:05 am »
. . . we have emulsion tube shocks (not one valve in there). . . .

I believe there's a valve inside the bottom of the fork tube, see:
http://www.racetech.com/HTML_FILES/DampingRodForks.HTML
called a 'Rebound Check Valve'.


  :017:  This rebound check valve eludes me.     :??:   If it was in my forks, I never saw it.
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2018, 01:01:33 am »
Mcfly; I've never noticed one either, but (assuming it is in our C-10's) it would be built into the bottom section of your upper tubes. Not removable..
From what I can tell, it is basically only a washer that is moved up or down by the oil flow, to act as a valve.
Note that in some of the instruction it mentions it has leakage, so it's not a tight seal...

George, thank you for posting that info. That is the best explanation I've ever seen on how the fork's work.
Great details on the drawings!


NOTE: Someone else has this on their sig line. {I decided to borrow it}...
          ie; I think it fits the suspension discussion well.

Measurement is the first step that leads to control and eventually to improvement.
If you can't measure something, you can't understand it.
If you can't understand it, you can't control it.
If you can't control it, you can't improve it."


Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 03:32:24 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Wantabeach

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2018, 04:15:18 pm »
I'm no expert on the damping etc of the front end.
I don't have the "feel" to honestly know the effect... So I will not get into the oils/emulators etc...
I do know you don't have to spend the $$ to stiffen the front end.

What I've learned (from others) is cut the stock springs to stiffen the front end, and increase the resistance to dive.
     Many have cut their stock springs successfully for zero cost..
  I recently set up my C-10 for my nephew. (Approx. wt 250).
  I used my Progressive (brand) springs and removed 4" from the tightly wound end's...

I suggest you cut your stock springs and replace the section you removed with a spacer.
 To find the amount you want, cut them 1" and do a ride.
   If it's not e'nuff, remove another 1".
   If that's not e'nuff, remove another 1/2", etc etc etc.
By doing this you'll be able to search for your ideal amount of dive/resistance.

Takes very little time to remove/cut/replace the springs each time..

Ride safe, Ted

I'll hesitate to try the RaceTech solution right now.  I would like to try shorting the springs and see if this solution works for me.  Are there some good posts on this topic?  Maybe some step by step instructions or youtube?  Have not found anything yet.

Thanks
Paul

Offline batboy

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2018, 10:59:41 am »
I'm no expert, in fact, I just recently installed new fork springs and changed the fork oil for the first time. There are some tech articles about working on the forks, but info regarding cutting springs is scattered around and you have to search to find it or you can just PM Connie_Rider (Ted) since he's done it. My understanding is once you pull the old spring out, you cut about 4 inches off the end with the tight coils and then since the spring needs to be exact the same length when it goes back in, you need to make a 4 inch long spacer. This can be made from a steel tube, but most people use thick-wall PVC pipe (3/4" diameter schedule 80).

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2018, 12:37:40 pm »
Batboy's right, except 2 things..
1) I'm willing to help, but I'm a newbie at this.
    {did mine after researching the Forum and asking help/questions from others that have done it}
2) Don't cut 4" immediately.
      I was using a Progressive brand spring and opted to take a big swing at it.
         I may have cut too much...
     I would suggest that you cut 1" - 2" off of {the tightly coiled ends} on your first try.
      Then go for a ride to see if it helped..
          If that doesn't stiffen it up e'nuff for you, you can cut more off and try the ride again.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 03:30:45 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Wantabeach

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2018, 03:10:54 pm »
Batboy's right there except 2 things..
1) I'm a newbie at this, just did mine after researching the Forum, and asking questions from others that have done it.
2) Don't cut 4".
      I was using a Progressive brand spring and opted to rake a big swing at it.
         I may have cut too much...
     I would suggest that you cut 1" - 2" off of {the tightly coiled ends} on your first try.
          If that doesn't stiffen it up e'nuff for you, you can cut again.

Ride safe, Ted

Since mine is a 2006, will I need to pull the fork tubes or can I just remove the top caps?

Thanks
Paul

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Front fork springs - 2006 C-10
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2018, 04:24:37 pm »
The springs themselves can be done by only removing the cap...
    The need to pull the Tubes out, or remove the cap only is dependent on; do you want to "completely replace" the fork oil
     while your doing your springs?
     ie; To get "all" the oil out, you have to pull the fork tubes.
          To refresh the oil, you can suck most of the oil out thru the top of the tubes.
              If you do this, you can flush out most of the old oil by filling and sucking it back out a couple of times.

IMPORTANT: Because you will loose some oil when you remove your springs, you "must" re-set the fluid level prior to reinstalling the springs...
     A simple way to do this is slightly over-fill the tubes, and suck the fluid out until it reaches your preferred "set height".
     Setting the oil to a specific height is the most accurate way to service the front suspension, and is EZ to do.

NOTE: Earlier in this discussion I think there are instructions to do the calculations yourself.
          On mine, friends helped me calcualte if I could cut the 4" without spring bind..
           They also calculated what my new spring force would be.
               This is not necessary for you if you remove only 2"-3".

This is my step by step to cut and install the springs.
 I;  opted to modify some Progressive Brand springs that I had, instead of the stock springs.
      removed the springs by removing the cap only,
      marked the springs with a sharpie at 4" from the top of the tightly coiled ends,
      used a hand held abrasive cutter {bought from Harbor Freight} to do the cuts,
         NOTE: Cuts were made across the spring coil. Not in line with the spring.
      deburred the cut with the wire wheel on my grinder,
      heated the thin end to red hot and hammered it down (so that the end of the coil was flat),
      made a 4" spacer from 3/4" PVC,
      installed the springs with the forks compressed / tightly coiled end up,
      installed a fender washers between spring/spacer to ensure a good contact,
      set {oil} level at 6 1/2", {I always use ATF for my fork oil}
      reinstalled springs/spacers/washers/caps..

As I sed earlier, I'm a newbie at cutting the springs.
Many others have done this before me and can/will advise on the things I missed.
I'll fully admit;  I don't have the best "feel" for the bikes ride, so I'm not a great suspension tuner.
                       But I know the spring mod has definitely helped prevent the sag and brake dive I had.   

Hope this helps?
Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 01:36:30 pm by connie_rider »
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