Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours Discussion (C10 / ZG1000 / 1000GTR) => Concours C10 / ZG1000 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: The ice man on July 02, 2017, 04:37:10 am

Title: Fuel leak ?
Post by: The ice man on July 02, 2017, 04:37:10 am
I bought  a 99 Kawasaki concours about 3 months ago. Shortly after I got it, I noticed a slight gas leak about where the fuel line connects to the gas tank? I removed the tank,the tap assy and the diaphragm part # 43028. I installed a new diaphragm. I reassembled  and installed  the gas tank. I started the motor and checked for gas leaks. No gas leaks were observed. So apparently the old diaphragm leaked and the new one did not.  Later as I learned more about the bike I became aware of hydro lock. I have heard on u tube and online that you should install drains on the carburetors to prevent this from happening.  If the diaphragm is working correctly, shouldn't that be sufficient to stop hydro lock from happening??? If you install drains on the carburetors wouldn't that create a vacuum leak?? I don't know how to install drains on the carburetors or if I should? I do not want to have a hydro lock event! What should I do to prevent hydro lock from happening???
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: Bob_C_CT on July 02, 2017, 10:22:00 am
Steve in Sunny Florida, aka SISF, is the guy to put in the overflow tubes and he also is the carb guru for rejuvenating the carb innards and making the carbs run better than stock. Awhile ago some tried putting the overflows in using epoxy that overtime would break down and start leaking. It's a precision job to drill the appropriate size and then press fit the overflow tubing in with a leak proof seal without damaging the cast bowls and Steve has done a lot of these.
I hope you read up on rebuilding the petcock about polishing and stretching the spring a little to give it a little more oomph. Most of us just buy a new one because the rebuild is not always successful. Keep an eye on it.
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: Mettler1 on July 02, 2017, 12:54:46 pm
  I will add to what Bob said.   SiSF knows C10's  Watch his videos. Lots of info here. This is an old bike but a goody. I have had mine for 23 yrs. But like any  older vehicle it requires maintenance. Watch Steve's videos.

                  https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/video-resources

    Welcome to the forum. You want answers, we got answers!! :great:
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: connie_rider on July 02, 2017, 05:18:33 pm
Did you happen to leave the bike in prime?
If yes,,, the vacuum/diaphragm system will not stop fuel flow.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: The ice man on July 02, 2017, 05:46:09 pm
No I did not leave the bike in prime. When I bought the new diaphragm ,I asked for a new spring but they did not have one in stock so I used the old spring. If I install a new (tap-assy,fuel) part #51023 would that be sufficient to prevent hydro lock?
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: connie_rider on July 02, 2017, 06:11:26 pm
I'm assuming new (tap-assy,fuel) part #51023 is a new Petcock.
   If so, it will assure the petcock doesn't leak.

But, The only thing that will prevent Hydro lock is overflow tubes.

Ride safe, Ted
   
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: Ranger Jim on July 02, 2017, 06:51:47 pm
Hydrolock is a scary thing. For it to occur the petcock MUST leak. It is unlikely that a new petcock will leak. That being said, I'd still advise sending your carbs to SISF for a rebuild/cleaning and installation of the overflow tubes. The service, while not cheap, will assure that:
1.  You'll not have to worry about hydrolock - EVER.
2.  Your bike will run better
3.  The service is cheaper than an engine replacement
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: SalNap on July 03, 2017, 09:22:43 am
float needles allowing fuel to flow past them is part of the cause, no? if you're rebuilding get new ones. if you send them to Steve, I'm sure he'll replace those
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: Mettler1 on July 03, 2017, 12:34:14 pm
float needles allowing fuel to flow past them is part of the cause, no? if you're rebuilding get new ones. if you send them to Steve, I'm sure he'll replace those

   Yes he does replace the float needles and polishes the needle seats. When you get them back they are CLEAN!!! inside and out! The only thing he suggest is than you sync the carbs after you install them only because every engine is a little different. They will be close but it don't hurt to make them better. (unless you can screw up a free lunch :-[)
   Also in Mich we have ethanol in our gas so I add and ounce or 2 of 2 stroke oil to the tank every fill up. ( keeps the carbs from plugging up during a long down time.) I use TCW-3 from Walmart at about $13 a gallon. Carry a small bottle of it in the bike.  :great:
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: The ice man on July 04, 2017, 01:24:59 am
I read the tech pages about hydro lock. I think that I should  remove the fuel line from the gas tank and install a temporary fuel line going from the gas tank to a Snapple bottle ,then leave it alone for 24 hours. If there is any leakage I will see gas in the Snapple bottle. Maybe repeat this test once a month to insure it is not leaking? I don't think it leaks because I would have noticed gas leaking out every time I removed the gas tank. The only time I have used the prime position is when I wanted to drain the gas tank so it is lighter to remove  and replace the tank. I can buy a rebuild kit for $35.00 or a new one for about $95.00 . I am thinking the rebuild kit?  Sending the carburetors to Florida for rebuild and drains installation, is a good idea, I gess, but expensive and obviously the bike couldn't be used until I got the carburetors back. Can a hydro lock event occur on other makes and models of motorcycles? I could install a valve in the fuel line and shut it off when I shut off the motor? I could rebuild the carburetors myself which would probably be less expensive?
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: JPD on July 04, 2017, 02:40:16 am
The only sure way to prevent hydro-lock is with overflow tubes. Steve was all the correct equipment to do the job. It takes both the petcock and a float to stick open to hydro-lock to happen. It could happen even with new parts if a little bit of dirt gets in the valves.
Any engine can hydro-lock. Leaking head gasket can fill a cylinder with antifreeze. The c-10 can do it with fuel due to the position of the carbs.
If you ever smell fuel or see it dripping on the ground when you go to your bike, don't try to start it until you find where it is coming from.
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: SalNap on July 04, 2017, 07:56:39 am
Check the petcock with hose/ bottle. I'd take the new over rebuilt petcock.

Yes, you can rebuild the carbs yourself. I bought rebuild kit from murphs I believe. Cleaned, rebuilt and synced. I didn't install tubes. A couple people have done their own, but I know my limitations.

Check the fuel levels with the clear tube method.

Others have installed in line shut offs.
But those float needles have to seal properly as stated.
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: Jorge on July 04, 2017, 10:43:38 pm
Ice Man,
Steve offers just the overflow tubes for a lot less than the whole package.
I will say the whole package makes a noticeable improvement on how the C10 runs; worth is in the eyes of the rider  :great:
For hydro-lock, two things have to fail: The petcock has to leak, and the float valve has to leak (or get stuck).
The first you've already experienced. Since there is not a real fuel filter, there risk that a float valve will leak or get stuck.
I've heard others say that the rebuild kit is not very good, but I used one when the bike had around 25,000 miles, and it lasted for about 40,000 miles, at which time it started leaking again. I used another kit, but only rode the bike for a few thousand limes after that  :'(
I used the kits that are sold by Murphskits.com

I'd say use a rebuild kit to get better confidence, and get the overflow tubes installed.

Jorge
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: The Wizard on July 04, 2017, 11:27:01 pm
Sent new answer to your question.
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: fuelleak on July 30, 2017, 01:55:58 pm
I just bought a 2003 model that had been sitting for about 5 years. Rode it 180 miles home. Fuel leaking steadily from a tube, down the center stand, and on the the garage floor.  There's no fuel shut off? Where do I start to fix this? Thanks
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: Bud on July 30, 2017, 02:13:50 pm
I just bought a 2003 model that had been sitting for about 5 years. Rode it 180 miles home. Fuel leaking steadily from a tube, down the center stand, and on the the garage floor.  There's no fuel shut off? Where do I start to fix this? Thanks

You might want to start with the hydrolock test.  Watch the video below and that will help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W6k3pTdAXw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W6k3pTdAXw)

Buy a new petcock from Murph.

https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?products_id=140 (https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?products_id=140)

Send the carbs to Steve.  If you feel good about doing carbs, then you take care of the carbs yourself.  If you don't already have overflow tubes from Steve, then you might want to get those done.

https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/products-and-pricing (https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/products-and-pricing)

Hope that helps
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: connie_rider on July 30, 2017, 04:32:13 pm
Fuelleak, it sounds like you may already have Steve's overflow tubes in your carbs.
You sed, Fuel leaking steadily from a tube, down the center stand, and on the garage floor


Where is that tube located?
If it's under the carbs, your probably in luck.
Check your petcock.
Do you accidentally have it in the prime location? (arm forward)
If yes, turn it straight down. Then get back to us..

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: jettawreck on July 30, 2017, 05:43:11 pm
I just bought a 2003 model that had been sitting for about 5 years. Rode it 180 miles home. Fuel leaking steadily from a tube, down the center stand, and on the the garage floor.  There's no fuel shut off? Where do I start to fix this? Thanks

In addition to Connie-rider's post, I would encourage you to check carefully where the "tube" and fuel leak was coming from. If it is from carb drain/overflow tubes, consider yourself fortunate.
To fix it you probably need petcock repair/replacement and/or new needles and seats in the carbs.
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on July 30, 2017, 08:34:38 pm
I just bought a 2003 model that had been sitting for about 5 years. Rode it 180 miles home. Fuel leaking steadily from a tube, down the center stand, and on the the garage floor.  There's no fuel shut off? Where do I start to fix this? Thanks

Apparently it already has my overflow tubes, but the carbs have sat for so long the needles can't seal and the carbs are a mess inside. I would expect it didn't want to idle very well, too.

Steve
Title: Re: Fuel leak ?
Post by: fuelleak on August 02, 2017, 04:24:11 pm
Thanks for the responses!  The petcock was/is in the on position.  The tube the fuel is coming from is the airbox.  I ordered a new petcock.  The motor was not idling well no surprise considering the time spent stored.  The gas tank is very clean. I joined COG. I don't love the bike (Caligula) yet, but I like it a lot and will be keeping it, maintaining it, modifying for many years.  I have watched several of Steve's youtube videos. When the new petcock comes in I will perform the hydrolock test/check during the disassembly and replacement. In addition I feel its a good idea to replace lines, hoses, and fluids.  Any thoughts? I was surprised how well the bike rode having sat for so long. More rider issues than mechanical lol.

Thanks,

Todd