Author Topic: Fuse box Junction box repair  (Read 1660 times)

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2020, 09:33:39 pm »
MOB
Yes did notice. Do believe some J-boxes are Twofers in some models. I only have rebuilt a Threefer in my C10. So all info from me is based on that. If I had a Twofer would still replace as I have except for the two. That or buy two J-boxes as noted. For me it was just a solution to what I considered a non user friendly J-box issue. But hell you and I both know the damn box lasted 30 plus years the first time hehe! Almost half as long as us.........

 :)) :)) :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :beerchug:

yep, I did a re-flow on the relay solder pads, as Guy noted, back in '04 iirc, on my '86... never had another issue.. Just wrapped a strip of duct tape around the seam, and one wrap around the 2 halves of the box.. all good.
He and I both grabbed up a bunch of J-boxes back then, from a police Bike Outfitter, that had a bunch of "new spares"... so I was alway's covered, still have a spare, and a new one on my COGZilla bike, I wrapped the spare up nice, and taped it up in the rear fairing... been there ever since...  :rotflmao: :great:

Oh, and when I noted his picture, I knew he had a Euro Bike, just wanted to see who would catch that relay... dammit Boomer.... you spoiled my fun.... :nananana: :rotflmao: :beerchug:

ride safe.

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Offline Lee

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2020, 10:04:44 pm »
MOB

yep, I did a re-flow on the relay solder pads, as Guy noted, back in '04 iirc, on my '86... never had another issue..

Yep ya keep a spare ......lug it around........never need it until you quit lugging it!

I reflowed mine the first time but relay was still bad. Think my three were all on the brink. But I learned a lot about J-box issues reading here. You are right bet I never change another relay......................but if I do it will be easy.

Offline Lee

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2020, 10:14:38 pm »
Got some more pics for the posting chain.

Offline jacksdad

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2020, 11:46:20 pm »
Thanks again everyone: the 2 standard relays V. 3 new ones is what threw me!
Boomer is bang on, we don't have the dumb headlamp reserve thingy  :-[

I'm happy with electrics, been working on bikes and cars for 40 years or so, and just rewired the circuit boards on my aquarium lights so that I can run the white, red, green and blue LEDs individually through a controller timer, so soldering etc. is easy enough (why do you say sod-der btw? its sol-der!)
I have boxes of standard relays, always filled my pockets with them, fuses, bulbs etc when visiting car scrapyards for other bits  ;D so I'll get on to it tomorrow. I've also just bought a complete J-box for £10 delivered, its got a good fuse cover as well.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 11:52:32 pm by jacksdad »

Offline jacksdad

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2020, 11:56:03 pm »
Lee:
What's the silver cylinder and hose thing in pic #2?

Offline Lee

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2020, 01:56:54 am »
Lee:
What's the silver cylinder and hose thing in pic #2?


jacksdad,

Have not figured how to use Quote thing properly or consistently.

So to answer as best can. View in the lower right second picture it reveals tail end of C14 shock adjuster and connecting hose. It is mounted on a plate running parallel with the folded passenger peg. Makes it easy access for when my wife joins me for a ride.

I fold her peg down and firm up one or two clicks. It, to me any way does not look bad there, at the angle of folded peg. Anywhere else and one would have to remove seat or side covers to get to it. You are limited by how long the connection to shock is. Some days when my back seems dead set against suffering road bumps I may turn it two clicks soft as well.

C14 shock and cut springs with emulators up front are the bomb for a C10. Sorry if belaboring something you already know with all this rest.

Hope relay idea works out for you!

Offline jacksdad

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2020, 09:14:31 am »
Thanks Lee  :great:
I can't work the Quote thing either! I'm looking at the forks and rear shock next, as I continue the winter rebuild, need to get the forks stripped and see what the internals are like. The bike has done 77k miles and has been well maintained in the past, such as the earlier carb tops and Motad stainless exhaust and the CD unit earth mod plus extra lamps and cigar lighter socket wired up properly: its been looked after  ;D
I bought a big Zed rear shock with remote reservoir and can't remember which bike its off, but I'll look at fitting it anyway!

Offline Lee

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2020, 11:19:17 am »
jacksdad.
Sounds like you are on the farkle way of C10isms! Some more views here too.

Offline Lee

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2020, 11:33:37 am »
oh one more if I can get below 350kb threshold for attachments!

Offline Lee

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2020, 12:05:40 pm »





Actually, the j-box board construction is about as low tech as you can get. Single sided board, non-plated through holes, and they're better suited to a microwave, TV, or some other stationary device not subjected to the vibration these bikes can produce.

Also, the OEM relay contact current capability is marginal at best..... especially the MAIN (center) relay that carries 99% of the bike's electrical load. The contacts get warm, the heat is transferred to the pins, the single sided board doesn't provide enough mechanical strength, and the filet solder joint cracks in an annular ring you see on so many failed boards.

Also, I would not seal the pins back. The rubber ducky will keep the back in place, and it makes it a lot easier to get the cover off should that be required at some future time.

Also, when I was repairing the boards, I always coated them with a conformal spray coating to protect the traces.


Thanks for info, tips and especially conformal tip! Notice it is available in brush on. No failed spray can 10 years down the road when I use it next. Ha!

I did not realize the main carried so much. Just did not think about it. All the more reason to make it plug and play would guess.

amazon.com/MG Chemicals 422B Silicone Modified Conformal Coating, 55 ml Bottle

Offline jacksdad

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2020, 01:42:00 pm »
Thanks again Lee, another modification for me to try!
I restore bikes all the time, my fave is Yamaha XS650, sadly sold my fully restored one last year, needed the cash, I got £3750 for it, but had insurance Agreed Vale of £5250, worth a hell of a lot more over here than the USA, it was basically a new ike when I'd finished.
Back to the J-Box, why not connect the standard relays directly to the wires going into the box, so removing the entire circuit board?

Offline Lee

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2020, 08:34:16 pm »

Back to the J-Box, why not connect the standard relays directly to the wires going into the box, so removing the entire circuit board?

Well "short", pun intended, answer is the diodes in the circuit. The C10 is wired a little strange, to me anyway. Because of this there is a potential for current flow in directions unfavorable. The diodes in the j-box prevent this.

Of note if they fail open you just have a circuit not working. If they fail shorted and fuse does not blow you have C10 mystery gremlins in your wiring and subsequent results.

When I was first having j-box issues I thought along same lines as you. Just by pass it all at connector to j-box. But abandoned such thoughts in looking at what it would take to by pass or replace box with any new design.

There are others here that may have a better opine. But that was my historical/hysterical thought some time ago. When my relays were failing gave some really difficult to diagnose intermittent faults.

Difficult for me anyway as I thought initially the electrical engineer at Maw Kaw should have been shot. Now I have a somewhat better understanding of his evil genius. I am thinking horse whipped would suffice. They used the j-box over many many model too!

Offline jacksdad

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2020, 11:04:32 pm »
That's sorted that idea then!  :-[
Assuming the box on my bike is original, its done 77k miles over 25 years and its still in perfect condition, albeit a little surface corrosion was there: now cured.
If its been replaced, better still, its not been used much. Plus I've just bagged a spare for £10, which I'll do the same as I've just done, and keep it in the tail fairing: they seem to last forever if they know there's a spare, so if it does fail I can just swap it.
Replacing the relays may solve one potential problem then, but not a total fix. :great:

Offline Boomer

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2020, 10:23:28 am »
Thanks Boomer, knew i had seen one somewhere before.

Hey you a submariner as well as a Cogger?
Nope, at 6'4" I struggle to get around in a sub.
The name comes from a quote "Boom Shanka" from "The Young Ones" TV comedy that I used to use on my email signature on the old the COG listserver.
Some people thought it was my name, and it stuck.  :-[
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Offline Boomer

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2020, 10:30:39 am »
I have the ZZR1200 shock in my 89 and it works so much better than the marshmallow OEM shock.
I mounted my remote adjuster under the right side cover behind the battery box.
Also have Sonic 1.2Kg springs and emulators and it does transform the front end.
Finally, I have CBR954RR front calipers with the OEM 86-93 front disks, so she stops good, actually too good as I can lock the front wheel.
Shout if you need any advice on getting bits specific to the UK.
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Offline jacksdad

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2020, 03:01:07 pm »
My used fusebox arrived today, its supposed to be 93 onwards but the same seller only has an early bike in his listings, so I say its from that.
My bike is a 1994 A9, and I've spotted this: Mine is top cover... :o

Offline connieklr

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2020, 05:35:33 pm »
My used fusebox arrived today, its supposed to be 93 onwards but the same seller only has an early bike in his listings, so I say its from that.
My bike is a 1994 A9, and I've spotted this: Mine is top cover... :o

Along the way ('94) they revised the bike's wiring harness necessitating a fuse change. That is the only difference as the boxes are basically identical.

Old wiring:


New wiring (changes in red):


Additional comment: In earlier Connies before the ’94 harness change, if the J-Box’s typical failure occurred (when the MAIN relay’s solder joints failed), the headlight and a bunch of other lights would go dark. In a ’94 and later with the harness change J-Box failure, the lights would also go dark, but the bike would also die on you.

A ridiculous, unsafe change, IMHO. Imagine if you will, zipping along in the freeway hammer lane at quitting time, after dark, with a gazillion other commuters on your rear bumper, and your bike suddenly dies. Chances are you’re toast. A headlamp going out after dark is bad enough, but throw a dead engine in the mix and it can’t be good.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 09:50:12 pm by connieklr »
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Offline Freddy

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2020, 11:11:17 pm »
Thanks for those diagrams Guy.   :great:
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2020, 12:05:31 am »
per Guy's comments also, even if the relay didn't fail, but the headlight did, the pre '94 would still afford you forward progress lighting,allowing an automatic switch over to the high beam at lower voltage for quite a long while I might add, having an '86 and an '88, with the reserve lighting circuits intact..

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Offline jacksdad

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2020, 01:37:10 pm »
Thanks for the info: does this only apply to USA bikes? The UK bike doesn't have the lighting 'extra' relay, I would say they are the same.
From what you say, I should fit the early J-box and keep the later as the spare!  ;D

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2020, 06:51:25 pm »
Thanks for the info: does this only apply to USA bikes? The UK bike doesn't have the lighting 'extra' relay, I would say they are the same.
From what you say, I should fit the early J-box and keep the later as the spare!  ;D

as I don't actually have a Euro bike of the correct era, I cannot say for sure; In looking at the schematic tho, for early euro products, it shows that your bike has an additional "city light" in the lamp housing, along with the absence of the reserve lighting Block/device. I am not certain you would have an issue, but my schematic on euro bikes is soo poor, I have a hard time reading it thru for nomenclature, as when I enlarge the pdf file, it gets muddy...
I realize the Junction box circuit board differs in that odd relay, but not sure the wireing precludes the necessity of it being there.
Question....
when you turn the ignition switch on, does that "city light" or the "headlight" light up prior to hitting the starter button the first time?
That always puzzled me on the function of the euro bike, as USA bikes, both era's require the starter relay actuation to trigger the lighting circuit, because there is only one "headlight" bulb, and no "city light" bulb in the housing.
I am also assuming there is a switch position on the left control pod (light/dimmer/switch) that controls the "city Light".. am I correct?

Thanks again for bringing these interesting things up, it's always good to refresh and keep alive the older bikes electrics, so we can help.

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Offline Boomer

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2020, 10:44:29 am »
On Euro bikes the city light (we call it a side-light in the UK from their use in cars) lights up at the first headlight switch position (right side switch, below the kill switch), and is independent of whether the bike is running or not. The main headlamp lights up in the 2nd position but the city light stays on.
If the low beam blows, then the city light allows other road users to see you.
On my C10 both city and headlamp are LED.  :)

In the US/AUS/CDN you don't get a headlamp switch and the headlamp switches on via the relay after you start the engine.
You also don't have the city light as you have the reserve lighting system that runs the high-beam side of the headlamp bulb through a resistor if the low-beam filament blows.

I can't remember if on the 94-99 GTR1000 they removed the headlight switch.
I don't think so, but all our more modern bikes now have the headlight always on with ignition on, and they disconnect it momentarily when you crank the engine. They still have the city lights fitted.
George "Boomer" Garratt
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Offline jacksdad

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2020, 12:08:27 pm »
Beat me to it Boomer  ;D
My A9 does have the off/sidebulb/main bulb switch, and doesn't have any lights on at all until you switch them on. The sidelight position was always a waste of time! 5W bulb up front is useless, but we also have a 'park' position on the key switch, where you push and turn the key from 'on' to the right, this switches on just the sidelight and the rear light, nothing else is live.
I also have swapped the 5W bulb for an LED lamp, a hell of a lot brighter, I also have a pair of LED mini spotlamps on a switch, which I use for daytime riding, if its a dull/overcast day I switch on the main headlamp low beam as well. (My extra LED spots are on constantly in use, but I can switch them to 'strobe' which really does draw attention, just a little bit illegal for some reason...)
So the park function must add extra wiring into the mix somewhere... :o
Again a useless function, probably used it twice in 40 years...and then it was just because it was there! :rotflmao:
Does the US C10 have hazard lights (all 4 indicator lamps flash, not sure what you call them)? Only had one bike to have them, an early Kawasaki Z650

Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2020, 11:58:32 am »
Yes the US model has the hazard lights. The front and rear turn signal lights flash. Yes we call them hazards.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 12:26:47 pm by Bob_C_CT, Reason: Fixed hazazards, too early in morning? »
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Offline jacksdad

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Re: Fuse box Junction box repair
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2020, 12:19:41 pm »
Hazarards?  :o I know what you mean really, sorry! So that's another difference, there are a few things that change for the different markets, as well as the emissions nonsense you guys have to deal with.
Does the hazards function change anything on the J-box wiring? Still trying to work my way thru the diagrams, and not 100% sure.  :great: