Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours Discussion (C10 / ZG1000 / 1000GTR) => Concours C10 / ZG1000 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: cafefill on June 29, 2014, 03:20:18 am

Title: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: cafefill on June 29, 2014, 03:20:18 am
  I was talking with a past motorcycle shop owner the other night, and mentioned that I had a ZG1000 concours. his first comment was "I've seen those bikes with less than 5000 miles on them traded in, because the owner couldn't stand the vibration in the bars". He went on to say "All you have to do is remove the top motor mount bolt, if I remember correctly, and all the buzz goes away".
  If it were that easy, I would have seen this fix in just about every thread on "buzzy bars" here. So- has anyone out there heard of this being done, and if so, does it really work? Personally- I have my doubts.
Cafefill
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: X on June 29, 2014, 03:39:45 am
I personally would never remove a motor mount bolt unless I was taking out the motor or doing something other then riding it. I have heard of the motor wobble on Harleys causing accidents due to way it was designed to be bloted in so I would imagine it is a bad idea on any scoot.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Outback Jon on June 29, 2014, 03:46:09 am
There are two top motor mount bolts.  And I wouldn't ride for long with either of them broken or removed.  They're pretty important, since the motor basically hangs off the frame.

However, making sure they're shimmed properly makes a large difference in the buzz.  Loosen both, tighten the right bolt to spec, then shim between the left bolt and the frame (If necessary) and then tighten the left one to spec. 
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jim Snyder on June 29, 2014, 04:34:08 am
Now I know why he is a "past" motorcycle shop owner.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Alekkas on June 29, 2014, 04:52:17 am
I think he was trying to recall the process that Outback Jon said.  That's what I immediately thought of anyway.

While it can be lessened, buzz will always be a part of this bike.  I can see where people sensitive to it would bail. 
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: coffee_brake on June 29, 2014, 05:54:04 am
I just put my connie back on the road after having to remove badly damaged tipover guards. Meaning the top motor mounts had to be removed and replaced.

I could barely believe how bad were the vibrations. Looks like I need to go back in there and check it all over again.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: jettawreck on June 29, 2014, 11:47:01 am
When I first got my '02 last year I rode it for a few weeks before I found the right motor mount bolt missing. Now I doubt it was intentional by the prior owner, although I never found any broken bolt or stray nut. Either way, after replacing the bolt there hasn't been ant noticeable change in vibration/buzz. And there isn't a lot. The prior owner has a printed copy of adjusting the balancer shaft inserted in the service manual, silicone filled bars, bar ends, etc. It's not that buzzy.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on June 29, 2014, 12:12:11 pm
1) leave the balancer adjustment alone, all it does is set the gear mesh, it does nothing the help change the counterbalance point.

2) The engine is a stressed member of the frame, and the frame depends on the engine for it's rigidity. removing any engine mounting bolts is a terrible, unsafe idea.

3) I have fully rubber isolated my exhaust, and it has made the bike smoother. that's an area y'all can work on too. Steve

Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Derick on June 29, 2014, 02:06:10 pm
I am/have been frustrated with the buzz myself. If I take a trip on the connie, I feel it in my hands for a few days after. That said, the concours is the perfect bike for me at the moment, and I have no interest in giving it up.

On my old 86, I did nothing to try and subdue the buzz. I just lived with it. Now, when I got rid of the 86 and now have an 06, I was determined to make a dent in it. I have not yet done so. Lol. I have done all the steps outlined but all the forum posts, with the exception of the carb service/sync. I did have a significant gap in my upper left motor mount (forum posts said to do that last). So I shimmed it with some washers, and had the everything torqued correctly. Also adjusted the balancer, no change. So do what's best for you. If I am going on longer trips, I'll put a set of those foam grips over murphs grips to cut it down a little bit.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on June 29, 2014, 02:38:27 pm
is there a renewed interest in my rubber isolated handlebar mounts? I dropped marketing them a couple years ago because the market felt soft, but since these bikes are changing hands again, new owners may be inclined to go this way to put the finishing touches on their "new" concours. Steve
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jim Snyder on June 29, 2014, 02:53:05 pm
1) leave the balancer adjustment alone, all it does is set the gear mesh, it does nothing the help change the counterbalance point.

2) The engine is a stressed member of the frame, and the frame depends on the engine for it's rigidity. removing any engine mounting bolts is a terrible, unsafe idea.

3) I have fully rubber isolated my exhaust, and it has made the bike smoother. that's an area y'all can work on too. Steve

I had my exhaust rubber isolated when I had the ZX9 muffler, but after I sent it to you I did away with it. I think I will re-create it again as I have noticed some vibs since doing away with it. Thanks for reminding me about that Steve.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jim Snyder on June 29, 2014, 02:55:42 pm
Another trick I have found over the years to cut down on the buzz thru the exhaust, is to do away with the two bolts that hold the middle of the exhaust to the frame on the stock exhaust system. Simply remove the two allen head bolts and gentle bend the tabs away from the frame and see if it helps.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on June 29, 2014, 03:21:19 pm
Another trick I have found over the years to cut down on the buzz thru the exhaust, is to do away with the two bolts that hold the middle of the exhaust to the frame on the stock exhaust system. Simply remove the two allen head bolts and gentle bend the tabs away from the frame and see if it helps.

This is where I picked up on the isolation trick  :beerchug: steve
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: 2linby on June 29, 2014, 03:49:58 pm
ttthhhhhriiiiteeeeeen yeeeeeeaaaarrrs and iiiiii dddddon'tttt kkkkknowwwwww abbbbbbout aaaaaaannnnnnyyyyy  bbbbbbbbbbbuzzzzzzzzzinggggggggggg!  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Every bike has some vibration which may or may not be a deal breaker for a rider.  But honestly the power of print ( a not so good comment in some motorcycle magazine a long time ago, and perpetuation of that comment) has more to do with the "connie buzz" than the bike itself has.  Let me demonstrate:

The three signs of being crazy

1) Hair growing on your knuckles
2) Looking for the hair on your knuckles
3) Realizing you ARE crazy cause everyone has hair on their knuckles!  :-\ (except if you barbeque without using tongs a lot!)  ;)

Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: cafefill on June 29, 2014, 05:06:50 pm
  Very interesting replies, guys. I myself personally have jumped through nemerous hoops to reduce the buzz, and although it's better, it isn't gone. Nor do I think it will ever be. However, there's no way I'd remove a motor mount bolt from an engine that's a stressed member. I'm sure the different "fixes" have varying results, but the most significant improvement for me was filling the handlebars with lead shot. Shimming the motor mount bolt when I replaced the engine several years ago helped too.
  Isolated handlebar mounts? I remember mention of this, but I forget what the price point would have been. As Steve said, maybe this merits revisiting.
Cafefill
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: LessPaul on June 30, 2014, 12:17:27 am
I have little to compare it to, but I don't have any problem with an inordinate buzz on my '86.

Guess if I rode more bikes, I might start to realize what the big deal is. But right now, my ignorance is resulting in a fair amount of bliss.

Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: VTconnie on June 30, 2014, 12:38:14 am
Leather gloves make a huge difference, I can barely feel anything wearing solid armored standard cuff riding gloves, and the standard rubber/gel grips. Also, after doing the SISF cam and jet kits, the engine got even smoother, and I have yet to even do a sync.

I will try the exhaust bolt removal or bushing, good idea.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Mettler1 on June 30, 2014, 03:46:22 am
  With SiSF's  mods I don't run into any vibes until 85 to 90 mph. Get over 5 grand is where the buzz starts to kick in but by then you're over 80 mph pushing 90. Steve's 7th gear mod helps as does torque cams and jetting. Good carb sync helps also.
  Rode to the COG rally and back (1800 miles) and no numbness even at 80 to 85 mph.
    I have had this bike for 20 yrs and used to get numb hands on long rides before the mods. Risers and murphs' grips helped this also.  :) :)
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Stasch on June 30, 2014, 11:25:23 am
Removing engine mounts is NOT the way to go.

Rode my C10 without the left upper engine mount bolt once.

Felt like the bike frame was hinged - handled terribly - everything bouncing around.

Wondered what had happened my ride that was so nice the day before. 

When I returned, there was the broken bolt in my driveway.

Some options to try:

 - loosen all motor mounts, start engine, re-torque - might help
 - gloves with gel in palms.
 - wrap grips with bicycle tape with gel in it or Beemer Buddies neoprene grip wraps.   (BB's worked well but started deteriorating in a year or so - still work, but not very cosmetic anymore.)
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: worncog on June 30, 2014, 12:35:34 pm
It is also possible to 'move the buzz' to a point in the powerband that is less annoying. This can be done during a carb sync. Mine is down around 2500 and is only evident when putting through town. 4000-4500 on the slab is fairly smooth, not Wing smooth, but smooth for an inline 4.

Gonna have to look at further isloating the exhaust at the rear mounts. Mid-bolts are long gone.

Randy
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Big John on June 30, 2014, 02:11:48 pm
It seems to me that some people are just more sensitive to different frequencies. I hear all of the time how terribly annoying the vibes are on an xs650, but the vibration feels fine to me. The higher frequency of an inline 4 feels more harsh to me. Every engine also seems to have an RPM that is has some resonance at where the vibes seem to amplify.
Seems the most direct route would be better balance of the countershaft, but this would be expensive. Rubber mounting of the engine is out of the question since it is a stressed member. I think Steve has the most practical methods lined out. Remove the additional resonance from the exhaust by isolating it as much as possible from the frame and then isolate the vibration from your hands, the place you feel it the most) with rubber mounted handlebars. Of course a good carb balance makes every engine feel smoother.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: JimBob on June 30, 2014, 04:06:46 pm
1) leave the balancer adjustment alone, all it does is set the gear mesh, it does nothing the help change the counterbalance point.

2) The engine is a stressed member of the frame, and the frame depends on the engine for it's rigidity. removing any engine mounting bolts is a terrible, unsafe idea.

3) I have fully rubber isolated my exhaust, and it has made the bike smoother. that's an area y'all can work on too. Steve


Hey Steve, how'd you isolate the exhaust? Does the mount tab stay cool enough for a rubber insulator to not melt? I've always felt the rear pegs were espcially buzzy, and while the wife hasn't complained, I think she'd notice it if I can dampen the vibes there.

Seems a simple shock absorber top rubber insulator would work fine, IF it won't melt.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on June 30, 2014, 04:22:21 pm

Hey Steve, how'd you isolate the exhaust? Does the mount tab stay cool enough for a rubber insulator to not melt? I've always felt the rear pegs were espcially buzzy, and while the wife hasn't complained, I think she'd notice it if I can dampen the vibes there.

Seems a simple shock absorber top rubber insulator would work fine, IF it won't melt.

If you go to my website and see the photo gallery, you'll see I fully built a new exhaust from the head back. I rubber isolated the main header, and this year  I have changed the zx9 muffler seen in the pics to a titanium muffler with a custom rubber isolated mount I fabbed up. I used some old zx11 engine mount rubber bushings to do so.

   When I mentioned others doing it, you'll have to engineer for yourself, I haven't tried to isolate a stock exhaust.

  BTW Jimbob, that's a pretty high post count you're amassing... when are you going to become a full COG member and not just a forum poster? ;)
 
  Steve
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: JimBob on June 30, 2014, 04:51:47 pm
Quote
when are you going to become a full COG member and not just a forum poster?

Sigh...once I get off my lazy arse and fix my location too!
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: SmokinRZ on July 02, 2014, 01:22:17 pm
The things that helped my vibration were, adjust mixture screws, shorter 86 bars, higher altitude, and miles (44K now).  The vibration at highway speeds seemed to come and go and I couldn't pinpoint exactly why, but headwinds and hills seemed to increase vibration but not always.  Also, vibration was almost gone whenever I was at higher altitudes (runs richer).  I live at 600 feet above sea level.  I've done all the usual tricks including motor shim, bafflectomy, and heavy bar ends.  When I first got the bike with 16K I wasn't sure I could live with it.  After the first trip I had numbness in some of my fingers for several weeks.  Now I don't even notice it at speeds below 80mph.  I did a bun burner last year and rode 1,553 miles for 23hrs.  Vibration was the least of my worries.           
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jwh360 on July 02, 2014, 04:06:16 pm
is there a renewed interest in my rubber isolated handlebar mounts? I dropped marketing them a couple years ago because the market felt soft, but since these bikes are changing hands again, new owners may be inclined to go this way to put the finishing touches on their "new" concours. Steve


Yes!!  From me anyway... ;D
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: AirMonger on July 02, 2014, 04:56:59 pm
I have certainly had some interesting results trying to excorcise the buzz demon. I still have both c-10's presently. The 90 model for what ever reason is just smoother than the 06 model. The 90 has 1-1/2" GenMar risers and superbike foam grips. I can live with it for about 200 miles without any ill effects. The 06 has a Storz tubular bar adapter with Rox Antivibration risers topped off with Honda Nighthawk S bars for added adjustability. The rubber isolators make for the smoothest C10 I have had the pleasure of riding. Just for grins the other day, while fabricating a cover to hide the hiddious riser combo (not a pretty set up) I removed the risers and mounted the bars directly to the Storz adapter and whent for a ride. Ouch. I didn't finish my intended loop before peeling off and heading back to the garage to re-install the Rox set up. Just had to see for myself I guess. I am know wondering how the 90 would fair with the Rox set up, however my brother should be arriving shortly to claim the 90 so I probably will never get around to swapping bars. I can say this, it is cetainly evident that each machine has different levels of buzz and react to the same change with different results.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: AirMonger on July 02, 2014, 05:01:51 pm
Steve, I want to add that I would still be interested in your set up as well. My Rox solution needs serious refinements in terms of cosmetics even though the effect is similar to yours. I will post pics when I get the opportunity.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jim Snyder on July 02, 2014, 07:30:16 pm
Getting rid of the stock handlebar setup was the big cure for mine. I have written many posts about the "tuning fork" effect of the stock handlebar setup. Handlebar conversion kits have been hard to find in the past 4 or 5 years. So Steve's idea is definitely something you should look at. If you have never ridden a C-10 with the 7/8" bar conversion, the difference in handling is night and day. Plus it gives you the ability to use many different configurations of handlebars. Steve has done more to help the C-10 folks than Kawasaki ever did. If he can find a way to get someone to produce his product at a reasonable price, it will add years to the riding comfort of your C-10.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Concours Canuck on July 02, 2014, 10:50:14 pm
Been reading of The Buzz for a few years now. Odd that I really see no discomfort from it though heated grips and experience little buzz at all. However, my hands go numb from the angle of the grips. My old 650 Maxim had a great set up affording non-numb hands for hours.

The Connie's grip and bar angle places the hands with too much inward twist. It's really unnatural to have one's thumb feel like a chicken wing being popped apart. I've found that riding with my thumbs atop the grips much better, though likely not particularly safe. To compare the safety of numb hands in the right position to comfy hands in an odd position is left to better brains than mine.

Love my '05 C10, but after a few years of odd hand position and loud motor, it has me pining for something a little more sophisticated. I don't know if a C14 is a ton better, but one glided by invitingly on Sunday...
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Ride&time on July 02, 2014, 11:37:31 pm
I ride pedal bikes allot. We use gloves with paded palms. Maybe try to incorporate something like that into my cycle gloves. But seems it would be the same as paded grips. I might try and spray some of that insulation called Great Stuff into the bars. Putting lead in the bars its good we don't pedal these things. The buzz doesn't bother me much. How do people get 200,000 with a bike that vibrates? Can't be that bad.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: AirMonger on July 03, 2014, 01:17:50 am
Here are the pics of the Rox risers in place and the Farkles Bar cover that will hold a charge port and any future switches. Again, every bike is different, as every person is different. This mod helps me immensely, I have said in the past that I am probably more sensitive to the vibration than others, hence my willingness to spend the money for a cure for me. If it benefits one other person than that is great. Even my Wing bothers me after several hours on the road. Thank God for cruise control on the Wing and that is the next addition to the C10. SISF knows the benefits of the isolators and several friends have ridden both of my C10's and at least two of them wanted to know why they didn't do that from the factory.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: coffee_brake on July 03, 2014, 03:53:18 am
Been reading of The Buzz for a few years now. Odd that I really see no discomfort from it though heated grips and experience little buzz at all. However, my hands go numb from the angle of the grips. My old 650 Maxim had a great set up affording non-numb hands for hours.

The Connie's grip and bar angle places the hands with too much inward twist. It's really unnatural to have one's thumb feel like a chicken wing being popped apart. I've found that riding with my thumbs atop the grips much better, though likely not particularly safe. To compare the safety of numb hands in the right position to comfy hands in an odd position is left to better brains than mine.

Love my '05 C10, but after a few years of odd hand position and loud motor, it has me pining for something a little more sophisticated. I don't know if a C14 is a ton better, but one glided by invitingly on Sunday...

I love my '05 too, bought new and 83k miles ago. I don't understand how you see the motor as loud, but I agreed when I first got my new '05 that the bars were intolerable, and Murph hooked me up with a Storz kit. It allows ANY 7/8" handlebars to replace the clip-ons and Murph himself ordered the right cables for me to make my Concours use Goldwing Aspencade bars, which put me at an absolute upright seating position. It was perfect for a long time.

The more I ride, the more sporting position I want, so I'm back to stock bars with just normal risers, but I'm hanging onto that Storz setup in case I ever hurt my back or something.

FWIW, my back doesn't hurt anymore since I began doing core strength work at the gym. That's been years ago, and it's a great habit: working out not to impress anybody, but to stay on a motorcycle longer.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jim Snyder on July 03, 2014, 04:18:35 am

 The more I ride, the more sporting position I want, so I'm back to stock bars with just normal risers, but I'm hanging onto that Storz setup in case I ever hurt my back or something.


Jenn, may I make a suggestion. If you like the sportier position you might try your Storz adaptor with a set on Bikemaster Daytona bars. They can be had for about $20 brand new and they come in black or chrome.
I choose the black myself. The 7/8" bars are wider than stock so they greatly improve low speed handling.
I have run with one and two sets of risers under my Storz adaptor but now I am running the Storz by itself.
Anyhow just something to consider if you get the hankerin' to do something different.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Concours Canuck on July 03, 2014, 09:33:50 am
coffee_brake, my motor is mechanically loud. Intolerable at points in the rev range. I have to delve deeper but may not like what I find as it may be too hard on my wallet.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: jettawreck on July 03, 2014, 01:43:40 pm
My '02 when I got it had some real uncomfortable (bigger in the middle tapered) grips on it from the prior owner. He was a big guy and must have had big paws. Real big. Never had a lot of buzzzz from the bars since he had done some silicone filling, weighted ends,  baffelectomy, etc, but those horrible grips made for hand cramps especially the throttle side. The '05 had stock grips and were noticeably much better. Put a set of Murph grips on the '02 last week and it's a vast improvement.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: coffee_brake on July 03, 2014, 03:51:01 pm
I also used Daytona bars on the bike, liked them, and now I'm very happy with just the simple risers. But if you want to sit upright, LOTS of folks loved my Storz kit with the Goldwing bars.

Canuck sometimes cam chain tensioners don't work properly. They won't click over to the next slot, and the noise sounds like the hammers of hell are loose in the top end. BTDT. So loud it's positively embarrassing.

I went through two stock cam chain tensioners on my '05, then I gave up and got the APE manual adjuster. It's not expensive and it's easy to use.

Would your noise be consistent with an exhaust leak somewhere in the system?
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Concours Canuck on July 04, 2014, 12:25:48 am
Yeah Jenn, that has crossed my mind but hammers of hell describes it better. Perhaps a manual tensioner is in the future. Pretty sure there is no exhaust leak, but that'll get a look-see with Connie apart to trace the short.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: coffee_brake on July 08, 2014, 01:14:40 pm
Here's a dealer for the part:

http://www.pitstopperformance.com/kawasaki-zx-ape-manual-cam-chain-tensioners-c-1_7_32 (http://www.pitstopperformance.com/kawasaki-zx-ape-manual-cam-chain-tensioners-c-1_7_32)
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: WillyP on July 08, 2014, 03:11:28 pm
coffee_brake, my motor is mechanically loud. Intolerable at points in the rev range. I have to delve deeper but may not like what I find as it may be too hard on my wallet.


Then again. it may just need a whack on the timing chain tensioner, or a valve adjustment. If it's that noisy, you may be doing more damage riding it that way.


Anyway, back on topic, more anecdotal evidence:    ;)


My '88 had severe buzz at varoius rpm and a dead spot at 4K. After cleaning the carbs, installing Steve's Original Jet Kit, and syncing the carbs at 4k, the buzz in the bars became barely noticeable at different rpm. However I did pick up some slight buzz in the foot-pegs at some rpm.

The '01 came with Steve's Original Jet Kit, and Helibars. I didn't touch the carbs, I don't think I even synced them myself, never even changed the plugs, and there's 'almost' no buzz, no hesitation, and it will pick the front wheel off the ground... on a good day.

And to those who complain about the ergonomics, Helibars rock! and someone a while back posted a link to these: MOXI Universal Aluminum Alloy Steering Handle Bar for Motorcycle - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme (http://www.dx.com/p/moxi-universal-aluminum-alloy-steering-handle-bar-for-motorcycle-black-308489#.U5i-Y3JdXrw) Same idea as the Helibars, but cheap. Also the Helibars let you adjust straight up and down, though you can't go much lower due to interference with the fairing.

I think the ergo's are very important, it was one thing I didn't like about the '88. I think if the angle of the bars were the same on the '88 as they are on the '01, the buzz (remaining after the jet kit) would no issue at all.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: cra-z1000 on July 08, 2014, 03:53:58 pm
I don't have much buzz but what is there i kinda like . I have arthritis in my hands and the vibes actually help them feel better .
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: JimBob on July 08, 2014, 10:12:09 pm
OMG WillyP - those MOXI bars are an AWESOME deal!

Where was this a year ago when I bought a set of Honda adjustable bars (think they're old Nighthawk bars) from the junkyard for $20!  :))

The Moxi's are on my wishlist now!
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: cafefill on July 08, 2014, 10:28:26 pm
  I started this thread asking about removing one of the top motor mount bolts, which I thought to be a dumb (and dangerous) idea. It seems this thread has evolved into comments on reducing "the buzz" in other ways, and I'm kind of glad it did. Myself- I filled the stock bars ends with lead shot, have foam grips installed, and wear fingerless gel gloves when the weather is warm enough. I have a damaged right arm from a cement mixer accident that has poor nerves and circulation, and that hand usually falls asleep on me when vibes get bad enough, With the aforementioned, along with the usual stuff- carb sync, etc. etc. The vibrations on my '03 are almost tolerable. I've done 700 mile days on the bike with no ill effects.
  When I relaced the motor in the bike two years ago, I paid attention to the torquing of all the motor mount bolts to spec, and made sure the top ones didn't need a shim (which they didn't). I swear the vibrations are less with the replacement motor, but who knows why. I'm beginning to believe that it's a combination of things, and when you address enough of them, vibrations can be reduced.
Keep the comments coming.
Cafefill
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: coffee_brake on July 09, 2014, 02:07:42 am
How on Earth can the Moxi bars only cost $60?!?!
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: worncog on July 09, 2014, 11:28:38 am
How on Earth can the Moxi bars only cost $60?!?!

China cheap.

China<Quality

Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: WillyP on July 09, 2014, 02:19:01 pm
I'm beginning to believe that it's a combination of things, and when you address enough of them, vibrations can be reduced.


I think this is the bottom line, that some of the things suggested go hand in hand. So, to summarize the options:

First line of defense is to not generate vibration as much as possible. The smoother the motor runs, the better, but obviously with the motor hard-mounted in the frame, there still will be some vibration transmitted to the frame. In a car, the motor is mounted on rubber vibration dampers, but our bikes use the motor as a part of the frame.

1) Tuneup, including carb cleaning and Steve's jet kit, valve adjustment, and maybe it's time for new plugs and wires. Carb sync, and I would suggest doing this at 4k rpm.
2) Check, shim tighten motor mounts as needed.
3) Some have suggested removing an exhaust mounting bolt, though I haven't tried that myself.

Second line of defense, is to isolate any vibration that is in the frame from the hand-grips. Tubular bars seem to work better at this than the cast factory pieces, and can give some ergonomic advantage as well. Ergonomics may not reduce vibration, but overall, will certainly reduce your perception of the vibration, and hence your comfort level, and that's the end result we want. Mounting the bars with some form of rubber isolator will give even greater benefits. These solutions will require a little creativity, and the outlay of some cash.

1) Aftermarket bars, I have the Helibars, they are very well made but rather pricey, other options could be the MOXI (http://www.dx.com/p/moxi-universal-aluminum-alloy-steering-handle-bar-for-motorcycle-black-308489#.U5i-Y3JdXrw) bars, though I haven't even seen a review of them and the low price makes me wonder about the quality. You could also buy any 7/8" tubular bars, if there is an M/C junkyard in you area, they probably have a bin of them for very little money, new ones aren't terribly expensive either. Either way, you will need an adapter. Murph has what you need: Concours Handle Bar Adapters (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_90&products_id=142)
2) Once you have the above, it would be a simple addition to add rubber isolators if you need more isolation. Rox Anti-Vibration Risers (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/53759/i/rox-speed-fx-elite-series-anti-vibration-pivot-risers?SiteID=SLI|Handlebar%20Vibration&WT.MC_ID=10010)... this is just an example you might find them cheaper elsewhere. I haven't used them myself, but someone did post a picture in this thread of these on a Connie.

And the third line of defense, dampening the vibration in the bars from your hands. You'll have to do your own research on these, I haven't used anything but regular gloves.

1) Some people have reported good results from things like bar snakes, packing the tubes with lead shot or other heavy metal objects. Others have said they don't work. If you have the stock bars, you can't fill the from the outer end of the tubular part, but the inner end has a plastic cap that can be popped off.
2) Bar ends. There are some bar ends that are made to fit the ends of the Connie's stock bars. Again, some people have said they work, some not.
3) Grips and gloves. This is a matter of putting rubber and/or gel between the bars and your hands. It just stands to reason the thicker grips and/or gloves will help reduce the vibration transmitted to your hands.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: FastRocket on July 12, 2014, 02:07:26 am
Regarding vibration from the hand grips , I used anti vibration gloves for work . You can get them at a local hardware store and I found they are great to use when using a hammer or any kind of shovel . I'm a retired HVAC mechanic and sheet metal worker so my hands are a little mangled internally from all the abuse I put them through over the years . The gloves are absolute magic . I used them to chip ice this winter and felt none of that horrid painful impact you get when your hand comes to a sudden stop against something .
 I've ridden my triple with these gloves and they work amazingly well . Use them also with the weed whacker , chain saw or even my hand drill .
 All that vibration can really put a damper into your hobby's and bike ridin enjoyment  .
 So give them a shot . Can't hurt or should I say won't hurt . 

PS ,,, one problem with these types of gloves are they can be hot and that they are either florescent orange or in my case the ones I have are florescent green which bodes well with being a Kawasaki addict .

Update

Well I'll be . They seem to have a new set of reasonably looking anti vibration gloves  :great: :great: :great:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pics+of+anti+vibration+gloves&client=firefox-a&hs=AMp&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aqXAU_apCLbNsQT7loGABg&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=625 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pics+of+anti+vibration+gloves&client=firefox-a&hs=AMp&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aqXAU_apCLbNsQT7loGABg&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=625)
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: zg2002-Murph2 on July 12, 2014, 02:50:52 am
Maybe I said this already, but that is the great part about getting older...everything is starting to seem new again 

Unless you have already tired it and hate them try one of the many items that fit the throttle grip to help you by pushing with the palm of your hand. Mine is called cramp buster, but I am sure many name brands exist. Mine was in the drawer for about 2 years after I purchased it since I primarily drive in a busy city commuting to work. What I found was I no longer had to really grip the grip and it feels more like the left hand now resting on the bar instead of squeezing it. The result is the vibration feeling is basically gone in comparison. I think it cost something like $3 or $4 bucks on Amazon, and the best bang for the buck so far that I have experienced.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: FastRocket on July 12, 2014, 09:08:20 pm
Maybe I said this already, but that is the great part about getting older...everything is starting to seem new again 

Unless you have already tired it and hate them try one of the many items that fit the throttle grip to help you by pushing with the palm of your hand. Mine is called cramp buster, but I am sure many name brands exist. Mine was in the drawer for about 2 years after I purchased it since I primarily drive in a busy city commuting to work. What I found was I no longer had to really grip the grip and it feels more like the left hand now resting on the bar instead of squeezing it. The result is the vibration feeling is basically gone in comparison. I think it cost something like $3 or $4 bucks on Amazon, and the best bang for the buck so far that I have experienced.

I've seen those on a few friends bikes and was also thinking of getting one for the con or my triple . I'm not sure but I thought I heard up here in Canada that they were illegal or something .  Not sure why but I have also seen a few fly off the bikes also . Maybe improperly installed ...
 
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: zg2002-Murph2 on July 13, 2014, 01:48:32 am
I know mine (crampbuster) won't fall off unless it breaks, really tight to my grips.

Maybe you are confusing it with some of the throttle locks. I could see the locks would be illegal since they interfere with regular operation of the throttle, but this thing doesn't stop the throttle return if you take your hand off.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: coffee_brake on July 13, 2014, 02:41:27 am
As my grips wear, my throttle rocker starts moving on the grip. It's not a big deal, I just twist it around with my left hand on shorter trips.

If it starts slipping on a long trip, I just use a little bit of electrical tape (you DO have that in your tool kit, don't you?) to hold it in place.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Ride&time on July 21, 2014, 04:36:23 am
I had read a post and someone stated they added a spoonful of TW3 or 2 stroke oil to a tank of gas. I do use Lucas upper engine lubricant. I do notice a differance. My bike gets slightly smoother with it. Been doing this on occasion for over a year now. Haven't fully read this post, maybe someone has mentioned something like this?
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: jettawreck on July 21, 2014, 12:25:18 pm
I had read a post and someone stated they added a spoonful of TW3 or 2 stroke oil to a tank of gas. I do use Lucas upper engine lubricant. I do notice a differance. My bike gets slightly smoother with it. Been doing this on occasion for over a year now. Haven't fully read this post, maybe someone has mentioned something like this?

The main purpose of the two stroke oil added to the gas is to help prevent the gas in the carbs causing things to film over and get sticky when it sits a bit.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: stevedap on July 21, 2014, 07:40:24 pm
Maybe I said this already, but that is the great part about getting older...everything is starting to seem new again 

Unless you have already tired it and hate them try one of the many items that fit the throttle grip to help you by pushing with the palm of your hand. Mine is called cramp buster, but I am sure many name brands exist. Mine was in the drawer for about 2 years after I purchased it since I primarily drive in a busy city commuting to work. What I found was I no longer had to really grip the grip and it feels more like the left hand now resting on the bar instead of squeezing it. The result is the vibration feeling is basically gone in comparison. I think it cost something like $3 or $4 bucks on Amazon, and the best bang for the buck so far that I have experienced.

I tried a CrampBuster for the first time on a 250 mile trip on Sunday and was so pleased with how it worked that I'm thinking of getting a second one for the left grip. It pretty well stopped my hand from cramping up and virtually eliminated the buzz. I left it on while riding in the city and had no problems, to the point that I forgot it's even there. My first two fingers can grip and rotate the throttle in front of the CrampBuster whenever I want. The part that rests against the heel of my palm is perfectly curved to fit my palm. No moving parts, no wires, no switches, nothing to break or corrode. Should last for years. 
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Ride&time on July 22, 2014, 05:18:30 am
Thats interesting about the two stroke oil in regards to helping to prevent the carbs from guming up. The Lucas upper cylinder lubricant may also help with that as well. It does say it has injector cleaners. Don't know how it could, it seems mild. Like using ethanol free gas though its just another expense.

It is comforting to know my bike can be running as it should and have a bit of vibration. Still can look in the mirror and have no problem seeing very accurately. There are bikes much worse with the vibration, And some better.

Mark
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"/ Two Stroke Oil Addition to Fuel
Post by: ChrisCarroll_ON on October 20, 2014, 01:42:33 pm
That's interesting about the 2 stroke oil. I had a mechanic tell me that he uses 2 stroke as a fuel stablilizer (instead of fuel stabilizer) when he stores his bike for the winter. I checked with the American Petroleum Institute (API) and they had never heard of it....and strongly suggested I stick with the normal stabilizer. Is there any downside to using a little oil in the gas?
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: SmokinRZ on October 20, 2014, 02:23:12 pm
Has anyone tried the grip accessory called beemer buddies?   
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: AirMonger on October 21, 2014, 11:19:14 am
I have them on my bike. They work well if you like a thicker grip vs. thin OEM style. They deteriorate pretty quickly. Mine look bad with less than six months of use (I cover my bike at work).
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: SmokinRZ on October 21, 2014, 01:47:56 pm
Thanks, I think I will just look for different (bigger) grips if they don't last long.  I took off my 86 shortie bars and put back the stock bars and the buzz increased.   
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: SamSam on October 21, 2014, 02:19:49 pm
I have had very good luck with with beemer buddies over foam grips.   
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jorge on October 21, 2014, 02:44:19 pm
Not all Connies "feel" the same.
Last year, coming back from the Spider Ride, Jon (1999) and I (2005) swapped for about an hour or so. Bikes felt completely different. Neither was really better, they were just different. The buzz was not bad on either, but as you went through the gears, you could feel the pegs and grips vibrate at different speeds between the two bikes.
Maybe it has to do with how well the pistons, rods, etc. are matched.
No complaints about mine.
One thing I'm not sure I saw in the thread was about not gripping with a death grip. I do find that if I tighten my grip, vibrations get a lot wors on hands.
Jorge
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: BBroj on October 21, 2014, 04:44:59 pm
My '06 buzz got noticeably worse when I switched to Heli bars. I have added heavier bar end weights, and done valve adjusts and carb syncs since, but no improvement.  My engine mount bolts are all there, shimmed and tightened correctly. Does anyone know if there is aisle a torque spec and order for the Heli bars? I have loosened and re-snugged them, but it's still the same. It's been awhile,  so time to do another valve adjust/carb sync and go through the list again....
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: SmokinRZ on October 21, 2014, 07:20:25 pm
Not all Connies "feel" the same.
Last year, coming back from the Spider Ride, Jon (1999) and I (2005) swapped for about an hour or so. Bikes felt completely different. Neither was really better, they were just different. The buzz was not bad on either, but as you went through the gears, you could feel the pegs and grips vibrate at different speeds between the two bikes.
Maybe it has to do with how well the pistons, rods, etc. are matched.
No complaints about mine.
One thing I'm not sure I saw in the thread was about not gripping with a death grip. I do find that if I tighten my grip, vibrations get a lot wors on hands.
Jorge

My 91 was so smooth I thought this forum was a bunch whiners  :nananana:  Then I got my 05  :-[  and I was scared it had a bent rod, but no, just the buzz. 
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: worncog on October 22, 2014, 03:14:02 pm
My '06 buzz got noticeably worse when I switched to Heli bars. I have added heavier bar end weights, and done valve adjusts and carb syncs since, but no improvement.  My engine mount bolts are all there, shimmed and tightened correctly. Does anyone know if there is aisle a torque spec and order for the Heli bars? I have loosened and re-snugged them, but it's still the same. It's been awhile,  so time to do another valve adjust/carb sync and go through the list again....

I've done the list on my 06 and she still buzzes a bit. I adjusted the buzz down to lower rpms during a sync, away from my typical cruising rpm, to make it tolerable. I really don't notice it at freeway speeds after moving the buzz down to around 2500 rpms.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: BBroj on October 22, 2014, 09:12:32 pm
Speaking of carb sync and specific RPM's, I thought the lower the RPM's you could keep the bike running and sync the carbs, the more accurate the synchronization. Does performing the sync at highway RPM's actually help the buzz, and if so, why?
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Scott on October 23, 2014, 06:37:52 pm
I see posts here that talk about shimming the left upper engine bolt only. Is that the left side as you sit on the bike or the left side standing in front of it? I ask because working on cars it's as you sit in it, left would be drivers side. I noticed one of my upper engine mount bolts missing and it has a gap between the engine and the frame so this would be the side that needs to be shimmed. The bolt that is missing on mine is on the right side if your sitting on the bike. Is this the correct side to shim?
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: WillyP on October 23, 2014, 06:45:48 pm
Left is always from the point of view of sitting on the bike.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: zg2002-Murph2 on October 23, 2014, 07:36:28 pm
Building a true rubber isolated handlebar mount works. Between less pressure and very little vibe left I have no symptoms of vibrations in hands even after riding for long stretches of over 70 mph.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: worncog on October 23, 2014, 07:54:19 pm
I see posts here that talk about shimming the left upper engine bolt only. Is that the left side as you sit on the bike or the left side standing in front of it? I ask because working on cars it's as you sit in it, left would be drivers side. I noticed one of my upper engine mount bolts missing and it has a gap between the engine and the frame so this would be the side that needs to be shimmed. The bolt that is missing on mine is on the right side if your sitting on the bike. Is this the correct side to shim?

Missing bolt?? You need to check all the engine mount bolts. Torque the right and shim the left, upper forward bolts that is.

Speaking of carb sync and specific RPM's, I thought the lower the RPM's you could keep the bike running and sync the carbs, the more accurate the synchronization. Does performing the sync at highway RPM's actually help the buzz, and if so, why?

I sync mine at 4k rpm and it runs very smooth at that speed. SISF may chime in, but I found that sync'ing at this rpm, where I spend the most time out on the slab and such, allows the engine to operate optimally at that speed.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Scott on October 23, 2014, 10:31:17 pm
Handyman, yes it is the engine mounting bolt on the right side. Mine seems to be the opposite. The left side is tight to the frame and the right side has the gap where I would need to shim it and replace the mounting bolt.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on October 24, 2014, 11:59:00 am
Handyman, yes it is the engine mounting bolt on the right side. Mine seems to be the opposite. The left side is tight to the frame and the right side has the gap where I would need to shim it and replace the mounting bolt.

Get a new bolt for the right side and put it in without tightening it, loosen the left side bolt and then torque the right side to spec.

Now shim the left side and then torque to spec.

And do check and torque your lower rear mounting bolts.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: DonH_NH on October 25, 2014, 01:20:07 am
Can the upper two engine mounting bolts be accessed without taking the side fairings off?  If like to check mine and was wondering how much work it would be to get to them.  Also, what do you all use for a whim,
If one is needed?

Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on October 25, 2014, 11:47:40 am
Can the upper two engine mounting bolts be accessed without taking the side fairings off?  If like to check mine and was wondering how much work it would be to get to them.  Also, what do you all use for a whim,
If one is needed?

Thanks for your help!

You should be able to get to the upper mounting bolts with the side plastics on and you can use any washers you have around that fit for shimming the left side.

I have one of the OEM shims and an additional washer on mine to take up all the space between the engine mount and the frame.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: zg2002-Murph2 on October 25, 2014, 12:02:06 pm
Don, take the lowers off and do a good visual inspection on everything.

A pencil/marker outline on a cardboard then punch small holes(smaller than screw so they don't fall out) where the screws are. There are several different screw sizes, but a simple job.

Only takes about 30 minutes to Remove/Replace lowers and belly pan, and you can clean out the bugs and dust while you are there. Consider doing it while doing your next oil change unless you need to get in there quickly due to concern.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jorge on October 25, 2014, 12:13:15 pm
I hope Steve jumps in...
Throttle opening at 4,000 RPM no-load is drastically different than throttle opening at 4,00) RPM and 70 MPH. Now if you could sync the carbs at 4,000 RPM in  dyno, with load, then you would be doing it the same as when riding
I suspect that doing it at idle and at 4,000 will give about the samw rwsultaq.
Jorge
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: WillyP on October 25, 2014, 10:27:06 pm
The point is to apply some tension on the cables and linkage parts.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Scott on October 27, 2014, 05:15:58 pm
Thanks Turbojoe. Will do next time I open the plastics again. Riding season nearing the end in Norwell? I hope not! Still holding out in Wakefield!
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on October 28, 2014, 11:31:34 am
Thanks Turbojoe. Will do next time I open the plastics again. Riding season nearing the end in Norwell? I hope not! Still holding out in Wakefield!

I have been putting the bike away after thanksgiving the last few years, we'll see how the weather looks around that time.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Scott on October 28, 2014, 09:22:56 pm
Not to rob this thread but does anyone know what size the upper engine mount bolts are?
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on October 29, 2014, 01:18:11 pm
Left side is 10 x 100mm,   Right side is 10 x 72mm.

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Kawasaki/Motorcycle/1999/ZG1000-A14+Concours/FRAME+FITTINGS/parts.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Kawasaki/Motorcycle/1999/ZG1000-A14+Concours/FRAME+FITTINGS/parts.html)
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Larry_Buck_FL on October 29, 2014, 02:58:29 pm
Winter is coming for many of you and it would be a great time to shim the upper bolt(s). Just sayin.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jim on October 29, 2014, 04:42:14 pm
Jorge,
My experience is there is a significant difference between syncing at idle and 4K.  #1 and #4 are much higher on my homemade manometer.  In fact, #1 and #4 are just about to suck the ATF out of my tube at idle.  At 4K they are dead even.  I suspect this has something to do with the throttle linkage flexing because of spring tension.  Granted, at 4K under load my setup may not be close, either.
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: JimBob on October 31, 2014, 01:54:53 pm
Jorge,
My experience is there is a significant difference between syncing at idle and 4K.  #1 and #4 are much higher on my homemade manometer.  In fact, #1 and #4 are just about to suck the ATF out of my tube at idle.  At 4K they are dead even.  I suspect this has something to do with the throttle linkage flexing because of spring tension.  Granted, at 4K under load my setup may not be close, either.

I'd be more inclined to think greater vacuum at idle is caused by better compression on #1 and #4...which could be balanced as simply as doing a valve adjustment!

(Of course, valve adjustment may not resolve it, but assuming the rings are good, you could see a LOT of vacuum difference from one cylinder to another based on valve adjustment, as demonstrated in Steve's latest video).
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Pbfoot on October 31, 2014, 02:15:13 pm
Foam grips .
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: JimBob on October 31, 2014, 05:54:50 pm
Foam grips .

How do foam grips get rid of the buzz in the footpegs? Or am I putting them on wrong? :))
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Pbfoot on November 01, 2014, 02:11:52 am
I am not experiencing a buzz in the foot pegs. I guess you could try it if you are desperate. ;D
Title: Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
Post by: Jorge on November 02, 2014, 12:58:18 am
Jim
Thanks, I've never  checked for the difference between idle and 4KRPM; I'll need to do that next time. I just it doesn't suck the ATF out of MY setup. I think that (using ATF) makes me as much a cheapskate as you  :great:
Jorge