Author Topic: Getting rid of "the buzz"  (Read 11812 times)

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Offline cafefill

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Getting rid of "the buzz"
« on: June 29, 2014, 03:20:18 am »
  I was talking with a past motorcycle shop owner the other night, and mentioned that I had a ZG1000 concours. his first comment was "I've seen those bikes with less than 5000 miles on them traded in, because the owner couldn't stand the vibration in the bars". He went on to say "All you have to do is remove the top motor mount bolt, if I remember correctly, and all the buzz goes away".
  If it were that easy, I would have seen this fix in just about every thread on "buzzy bars" here. So- has anyone out there heard of this being done, and if so, does it really work? Personally- I have my doubts.
Cafefill

Offline X

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 03:39:45 am »
I personally would never remove a motor mount bolt unless I was taking out the motor or doing something other then riding it. I have heard of the motor wobble on Harleys causing accidents due to way it was designed to be bloted in so I would imagine it is a bad idea on any scoot.
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Offline Outback Jon

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2014, 03:46:09 am »
There are two top motor mount bolts.  And I wouldn't ride for long with either of them broken or removed.  They're pretty important, since the motor basically hangs off the frame.

However, making sure they're shimmed properly makes a large difference in the buzz.  Loosen both, tighten the right bolt to spec, then shim between the left bolt and the frame (If necessary) and then tighten the left one to spec. 
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2014, 04:34:08 am »
Now I know why he is a "past" motorcycle shop owner.
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Offline Alekkas

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2014, 04:52:17 am »
I think he was trying to recall the process that Outback Jon said.  That's what I immediately thought of anyway.

While it can be lessened, buzz will always be a part of this bike.  I can see where people sensitive to it would bail. 
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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2014, 05:54:04 am »
I just put my connie back on the road after having to remove badly damaged tipover guards. Meaning the top motor mounts had to be removed and replaced.

I could barely believe how bad were the vibrations. Looks like I need to go back in there and check it all over again.
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Offline jettawreck

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2014, 11:47:01 am »
When I first got my '02 last year I rode it for a few weeks before I found the right motor mount bolt missing. Now I doubt it was intentional by the prior owner, although I never found any broken bolt or stray nut. Either way, after replacing the bolt there hasn't been ant noticeable change in vibration/buzz. And there isn't a lot. The prior owner has a printed copy of adjusting the balancer shaft inserted in the service manual, silicone filled bars, bar ends, etc. It's not that buzzy.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2014, 12:12:11 pm »
1) leave the balancer adjustment alone, all it does is set the gear mesh, it does nothing the help change the counterbalance point.

2) The engine is a stressed member of the frame, and the frame depends on the engine for it's rigidity. removing any engine mounting bolts is a terrible, unsafe idea.

3) I have fully rubber isolated my exhaust, and it has made the bike smoother. that's an area y'all can work on too. Steve

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Offline Derick

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2014, 02:06:10 pm »
I am/have been frustrated with the buzz myself. If I take a trip on the connie, I feel it in my hands for a few days after. That said, the concours is the perfect bike for me at the moment, and I have no interest in giving it up.

On my old 86, I did nothing to try and subdue the buzz. I just lived with it. Now, when I got rid of the 86 and now have an 06, I was determined to make a dent in it. I have not yet done so. Lol. I have done all the steps outlined but all the forum posts, with the exception of the carb service/sync. I did have a significant gap in my upper left motor mount (forum posts said to do that last). So I shimmed it with some washers, and had the everything torqued correctly. Also adjusted the balancer, no change. So do what's best for you. If I am going on longer trips, I'll put a set of those foam grips over murphs grips to cut it down a little bit.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2014, 02:38:27 pm »
is there a renewed interest in my rubber isolated handlebar mounts? I dropped marketing them a couple years ago because the market felt soft, but since these bikes are changing hands again, new owners may be inclined to go this way to put the finishing touches on their "new" concours. Steve
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2014, 02:53:05 pm »
1) leave the balancer adjustment alone, all it does is set the gear mesh, it does nothing the help change the counterbalance point.

2) The engine is a stressed member of the frame, and the frame depends on the engine for it's rigidity. removing any engine mounting bolts is a terrible, unsafe idea.

3) I have fully rubber isolated my exhaust, and it has made the bike smoother. that's an area y'all can work on too. Steve

I had my exhaust rubber isolated when I had the ZX9 muffler, but after I sent it to you I did away with it. I think I will re-create it again as I have noticed some vibs since doing away with it. Thanks for reminding me about that Steve.
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2014, 02:55:42 pm »
Another trick I have found over the years to cut down on the buzz thru the exhaust, is to do away with the two bolts that hold the middle of the exhaust to the frame on the stock exhaust system. Simply remove the two allen head bolts and gentle bend the tabs away from the frame and see if it helps.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2014, 03:21:19 pm »
Another trick I have found over the years to cut down on the buzz thru the exhaust, is to do away with the two bolts that hold the middle of the exhaust to the frame on the stock exhaust system. Simply remove the two allen head bolts and gentle bend the tabs away from the frame and see if it helps.

This is where I picked up on the isolation trick  :beerchug: steve
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Offline 2linby

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2014, 03:49:58 pm »
ttthhhhhriiiiteeeeeen yeeeeeeaaaarrrs and iiiiii dddddon'tttt kkkkknowwwwww abbbbbbout aaaaaaannnnnnyyyyy  bbbbbbbbbbbuzzzzzzzzzinggggggggggg!  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Every bike has some vibration which may or may not be a deal breaker for a rider.  But honestly the power of print ( a not so good comment in some motorcycle magazine a long time ago, and perpetuation of that comment) has more to do with the "connie buzz" than the bike itself has.  Let me demonstrate:

The three signs of being crazy

1) Hair growing on your knuckles
2) Looking for the hair on your knuckles
3) Realizing you ARE crazy cause everyone has hair on their knuckles!  :-\ (except if you barbeque without using tongs a lot!)  ;)

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Offline cafefill

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2014, 05:06:50 pm »
  Very interesting replies, guys. I myself personally have jumped through nemerous hoops to reduce the buzz, and although it's better, it isn't gone. Nor do I think it will ever be. However, there's no way I'd remove a motor mount bolt from an engine that's a stressed member. I'm sure the different "fixes" have varying results, but the most significant improvement for me was filling the handlebars with lead shot. Shimming the motor mount bolt when I replaced the engine several years ago helped too.
  Isolated handlebar mounts? I remember mention of this, but I forget what the price point would have been. As Steve said, maybe this merits revisiting.
Cafefill

Offline LessPaul

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2014, 12:17:27 am »
I have little to compare it to, but I don't have any problem with an inordinate buzz on my '86.

Guess if I rode more bikes, I might start to realize what the big deal is. But right now, my ignorance is resulting in a fair amount of bliss.

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Offline VTconnie

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2014, 12:38:14 am »
Leather gloves make a huge difference, I can barely feel anything wearing solid armored standard cuff riding gloves, and the standard rubber/gel grips. Also, after doing the SISF cam and jet kits, the engine got even smoother, and I have yet to even do a sync.

I will try the exhaust bolt removal or bushing, good idea.
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Offline Mettler1

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2014, 03:46:22 am »
  With SiSF's  mods I don't run into any vibes until 85 to 90 mph. Get over 5 grand is where the buzz starts to kick in but by then you're over 80 mph pushing 90. Steve's 7th gear mod helps as does torque cams and jetting. Good carb sync helps also.
  Rode to the COG rally and back (1800 miles) and no numbness even at 80 to 85 mph.
    I have had this bike for 20 yrs and used to get numb hands on long rides before the mods. Risers and murphs' grips helped this also.  :) :)
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Offline Stasch

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2014, 11:25:23 am »
Removing engine mounts is NOT the way to go.

Rode my C10 without the left upper engine mount bolt once.

Felt like the bike frame was hinged - handled terribly - everything bouncing around.

Wondered what had happened my ride that was so nice the day before. 

When I returned, there was the broken bolt in my driveway.

Some options to try:

 - loosen all motor mounts, start engine, re-torque - might help
 - gloves with gel in palms.
 - wrap grips with bicycle tape with gel in it or Beemer Buddies neoprene grip wraps.   (BB's worked well but started deteriorating in a year or so - still work, but not very cosmetic anymore.)
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Offline worncog

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2014, 12:35:34 pm »
It is also possible to 'move the buzz' to a point in the powerband that is less annoying. This can be done during a carb sync. Mine is down around 2500 and is only evident when putting through town. 4000-4500 on the slab is fairly smooth, not Wing smooth, but smooth for an inline 4.

Gonna have to look at further isloating the exhaust at the rear mounts. Mid-bolts are long gone.

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Offline Big John

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2014, 02:11:48 pm »
It seems to me that some people are just more sensitive to different frequencies. I hear all of the time how terribly annoying the vibes are on an xs650, but the vibration feels fine to me. The higher frequency of an inline 4 feels more harsh to me. Every engine also seems to have an RPM that is has some resonance at where the vibes seem to amplify.
Seems the most direct route would be better balance of the countershaft, but this would be expensive. Rubber mounting of the engine is out of the question since it is a stressed member. I think Steve has the most practical methods lined out. Remove the additional resonance from the exhaust by isolating it as much as possible from the frame and then isolate the vibration from your hands, the place you feel it the most) with rubber mounted handlebars. Of course a good carb balance makes every engine feel smoother.

Offline JimBob

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2014, 04:06:46 pm »
1) leave the balancer adjustment alone, all it does is set the gear mesh, it does nothing the help change the counterbalance point.

2) The engine is a stressed member of the frame, and the frame depends on the engine for it's rigidity. removing any engine mounting bolts is a terrible, unsafe idea.

3) I have fully rubber isolated my exhaust, and it has made the bike smoother. that's an area y'all can work on too. Steve


Hey Steve, how'd you isolate the exhaust? Does the mount tab stay cool enough for a rubber insulator to not melt? I've always felt the rear pegs were espcially buzzy, and while the wife hasn't complained, I think she'd notice it if I can dampen the vibes there.

Seems a simple shock absorber top rubber insulator would work fine, IF it won't melt.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2014, 04:22:21 pm »

Hey Steve, how'd you isolate the exhaust? Does the mount tab stay cool enough for a rubber insulator to not melt? I've always felt the rear pegs were espcially buzzy, and while the wife hasn't complained, I think she'd notice it if I can dampen the vibes there.

Seems a simple shock absorber top rubber insulator would work fine, IF it won't melt.

If you go to my website and see the photo gallery, you'll see I fully built a new exhaust from the head back. I rubber isolated the main header, and this year  I have changed the zx9 muffler seen in the pics to a titanium muffler with a custom rubber isolated mount I fabbed up. I used some old zx11 engine mount rubber bushings to do so.

   When I mentioned others doing it, you'll have to engineer for yourself, I haven't tried to isolate a stock exhaust.

  BTW Jimbob, that's a pretty high post count you're amassing... when are you going to become a full COG member and not just a forum poster? ;)
 
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Offline JimBob

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2014, 04:51:47 pm »
Quote
when are you going to become a full COG member and not just a forum poster?

Sigh...once I get off my lazy arse and fix my location too!

Offline SmokinRZ

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2014, 01:22:17 pm »
The things that helped my vibration were, adjust mixture screws, shorter 86 bars, higher altitude, and miles (44K now).  The vibration at highway speeds seemed to come and go and I couldn't pinpoint exactly why, but headwinds and hills seemed to increase vibration but not always.  Also, vibration was almost gone whenever I was at higher altitudes (runs richer).  I live at 600 feet above sea level.  I've done all the usual tricks including motor shim, bafflectomy, and heavy bar ends.  When I first got the bike with 16K I wasn't sure I could live with it.  After the first trip I had numbness in some of my fingers for several weeks.  Now I don't even notice it at speeds below 80mph.  I did a bun burner last year and rode 1,553 miles for 23hrs.  Vibration was the least of my worries.