Author Topic: Getting rid of "the buzz"  (Read 13735 times)

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Offline Jwh360

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2014, 04:06:16 pm »
is there a renewed interest in my rubber isolated handlebar mounts? I dropped marketing them a couple years ago because the market felt soft, but since these bikes are changing hands again, new owners may be inclined to go this way to put the finishing touches on their "new" concours. Steve


Yes!!  From me anyway... ;D
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Offline AirMonger

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2014, 04:56:59 pm »
I have certainly had some interesting results trying to excorcise the buzz demon. I still have both c-10's presently. The 90 model for what ever reason is just smoother than the 06 model. The 90 has 1-1/2" GenMar risers and superbike foam grips. I can live with it for about 200 miles without any ill effects. The 06 has a Storz tubular bar adapter with Rox Antivibration risers topped off with Honda Nighthawk S bars for added adjustability. The rubber isolators make for the smoothest C10 I have had the pleasure of riding. Just for grins the other day, while fabricating a cover to hide the hiddious riser combo (not a pretty set up) I removed the risers and mounted the bars directly to the Storz adapter and whent for a ride. Ouch. I didn't finish my intended loop before peeling off and heading back to the garage to re-install the Rox set up. Just had to see for myself I guess. I am know wondering how the 90 would fair with the Rox set up, however my brother should be arriving shortly to claim the 90 so I probably will never get around to swapping bars. I can say this, it is cetainly evident that each machine has different levels of buzz and react to the same change with different results.
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Offline AirMonger

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2014, 05:01:51 pm »
Steve, I want to add that I would still be interested in your set up as well. My Rox solution needs serious refinements in terms of cosmetics even though the effect is similar to yours. I will post pics when I get the opportunity.
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2014, 07:30:16 pm »
Getting rid of the stock handlebar setup was the big cure for mine. I have written many posts about the "tuning fork" effect of the stock handlebar setup. Handlebar conversion kits have been hard to find in the past 4 or 5 years. So Steve's idea is definitely something you should look at. If you have never ridden a C-10 with the 7/8" bar conversion, the difference in handling is night and day. Plus it gives you the ability to use many different configurations of handlebars. Steve has done more to help the C-10 folks than Kawasaki ever did. If he can find a way to get someone to produce his product at a reasonable price, it will add years to the riding comfort of your C-10.
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Offline Concours Canuck

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2014, 10:50:14 pm »
Been reading of The Buzz for a few years now. Odd that I really see no discomfort from it though heated grips and experience little buzz at all. However, my hands go numb from the angle of the grips. My old 650 Maxim had a great set up affording non-numb hands for hours.

The Connie's grip and bar angle places the hands with too much inward twist. It's really unnatural to have one's thumb feel like a chicken wing being popped apart. I've found that riding with my thumbs atop the grips much better, though likely not particularly safe. To compare the safety of numb hands in the right position to comfy hands in an odd position is left to better brains than mine.

Love my '05 C10, but after a few years of odd hand position and loud motor, it has me pining for something a little more sophisticated. I don't know if a C14 is a ton better, but one glided by invitingly on Sunday...
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Offline Ride&time

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2014, 11:37:31 pm »
I ride pedal bikes allot. We use gloves with paded palms. Maybe try to incorporate something like that into my cycle gloves. But seems it would be the same as paded grips. I might try and spray some of that insulation called Great Stuff into the bars. Putting lead in the bars its good we don't pedal these things. The buzz doesn't bother me much. How do people get 200,000 with a bike that vibrates? Can't be that bad.

Offline AirMonger

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2014, 01:17:50 am »
Here are the pics of the Rox risers in place and the Farkles Bar cover that will hold a charge port and any future switches. Again, every bike is different, as every person is different. This mod helps me immensely, I have said in the past that I am probably more sensitive to the vibration than others, hence my willingness to spend the money for a cure for me. If it benefits one other person than that is great. Even my Wing bothers me after several hours on the road. Thank God for cruise control on the Wing and that is the next addition to the C10. SISF knows the benefits of the isolators and several friends have ridden both of my C10's and at least two of them wanted to know why they didn't do that from the factory.
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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2014, 03:53:18 am »
Been reading of The Buzz for a few years now. Odd that I really see no discomfort from it though heated grips and experience little buzz at all. However, my hands go numb from the angle of the grips. My old 650 Maxim had a great set up affording non-numb hands for hours.

The Connie's grip and bar angle places the hands with too much inward twist. It's really unnatural to have one's thumb feel like a chicken wing being popped apart. I've found that riding with my thumbs atop the grips much better, though likely not particularly safe. To compare the safety of numb hands in the right position to comfy hands in an odd position is left to better brains than mine.

Love my '05 C10, but after a few years of odd hand position and loud motor, it has me pining for something a little more sophisticated. I don't know if a C14 is a ton better, but one glided by invitingly on Sunday...

I love my '05 too, bought new and 83k miles ago. I don't understand how you see the motor as loud, but I agreed when I first got my new '05 that the bars were intolerable, and Murph hooked me up with a Storz kit. It allows ANY 7/8" handlebars to replace the clip-ons and Murph himself ordered the right cables for me to make my Concours use Goldwing Aspencade bars, which put me at an absolute upright seating position. It was perfect for a long time.

The more I ride, the more sporting position I want, so I'm back to stock bars with just normal risers, but I'm hanging onto that Storz setup in case I ever hurt my back or something.

FWIW, my back doesn't hurt anymore since I began doing core strength work at the gym. That's been years ago, and it's a great habit: working out not to impress anybody, but to stay on a motorcycle longer.
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2014, 04:18:35 am »

 The more I ride, the more sporting position I want, so I'm back to stock bars with just normal risers, but I'm hanging onto that Storz setup in case I ever hurt my back or something.


Jenn, may I make a suggestion. If you like the sportier position you might try your Storz adaptor with a set on Bikemaster Daytona bars. They can be had for about $20 brand new and they come in black or chrome.
I choose the black myself. The 7/8" bars are wider than stock so they greatly improve low speed handling.
I have run with one and two sets of risers under my Storz adaptor but now I am running the Storz by itself.
Anyhow just something to consider if you get the hankerin' to do something different.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 02:56:49 pm by WillyP, Reason: fixed quote tags »
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Offline Concours Canuck

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2014, 09:33:50 am »
coffee_brake, my motor is mechanically loud. Intolerable at points in the rev range. I have to delve deeper but may not like what I find as it may be too hard on my wallet.
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Offline jettawreck

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2014, 01:43:40 pm »
My '02 when I got it had some real uncomfortable (bigger in the middle tapered) grips on it from the prior owner. He was a big guy and must have had big paws. Real big. Never had a lot of buzzzz from the bars since he had done some silicone filling, weighted ends,  baffelectomy, etc, but those horrible grips made for hand cramps especially the throttle side. The '05 had stock grips and were noticeably much better. Put a set of Murph grips on the '02 last week and it's a vast improvement.
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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2014, 03:51:01 pm »
I also used Daytona bars on the bike, liked them, and now I'm very happy with just the simple risers. But if you want to sit upright, LOTS of folks loved my Storz kit with the Goldwing bars.

Canuck sometimes cam chain tensioners don't work properly. They won't click over to the next slot, and the noise sounds like the hammers of hell are loose in the top end. BTDT. So loud it's positively embarrassing.

I went through two stock cam chain tensioners on my '05, then I gave up and got the APE manual adjuster. It's not expensive and it's easy to use.

Would your noise be consistent with an exhaust leak somewhere in the system?
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline Concours Canuck

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2014, 12:25:48 am »
Yeah Jenn, that has crossed my mind but hammers of hell describes it better. Perhaps a manual tensioner is in the future. Pretty sure there is no exhaust leak, but that'll get a look-see with Connie apart to trace the short.
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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2014, 01:14:40 pm »
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline WillyP

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2014, 03:11:28 pm »
coffee_brake, my motor is mechanically loud. Intolerable at points in the rev range. I have to delve deeper but may not like what I find as it may be too hard on my wallet.


Then again. it may just need a whack on the timing chain tensioner, or a valve adjustment. If it's that noisy, you may be doing more damage riding it that way.


Anyway, back on topic, more anecdotal evidence:    ;)


My '88 had severe buzz at varoius rpm and a dead spot at 4K. After cleaning the carbs, installing Steve's Original Jet Kit, and syncing the carbs at 4k, the buzz in the bars became barely noticeable at different rpm. However I did pick up some slight buzz in the foot-pegs at some rpm.

The '01 came with Steve's Original Jet Kit, and Helibars. I didn't touch the carbs, I don't think I even synced them myself, never even changed the plugs, and there's 'almost' no buzz, no hesitation, and it will pick the front wheel off the ground... on a good day.

And to those who complain about the ergonomics, Helibars rock! and someone a while back posted a link to these: MOXI Universal Aluminum Alloy Steering Handle Bar for Motorcycle - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme Same idea as the Helibars, but cheap. Also the Helibars let you adjust straight up and down, though you can't go much lower due to interference with the fairing.

I think the ergo's are very important, it was one thing I didn't like about the '88. I think if the angle of the bars were the same on the '88 as they are on the '01, the buzz (remaining after the jet kit) would no issue at all.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 03:15:15 pm by WillyP »
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Offline cra-z1000

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2014, 03:53:58 pm »
I don't have much buzz but what is there i kinda like . I have arthritis in my hands and the vibes actually help them feel better .
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Offline JimBob

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2014, 10:12:09 pm »
OMG WillyP - those MOXI bars are an AWESOME deal!

Where was this a year ago when I bought a set of Honda adjustable bars (think they're old Nighthawk bars) from the junkyard for $20!  :))

The Moxi's are on my wishlist now!

Offline cafefill

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2014, 10:28:26 pm »
  I started this thread asking about removing one of the top motor mount bolts, which I thought to be a dumb (and dangerous) idea. It seems this thread has evolved into comments on reducing "the buzz" in other ways, and I'm kind of glad it did. Myself- I filled the stock bars ends with lead shot, have foam grips installed, and wear fingerless gel gloves when the weather is warm enough. I have a damaged right arm from a cement mixer accident that has poor nerves and circulation, and that hand usually falls asleep on me when vibes get bad enough, With the aforementioned, along with the usual stuff- carb sync, etc. etc. The vibrations on my '03 are almost tolerable. I've done 700 mile days on the bike with no ill effects.
  When I relaced the motor in the bike two years ago, I paid attention to the torquing of all the motor mount bolts to spec, and made sure the top ones didn't need a shim (which they didn't). I swear the vibrations are less with the replacement motor, but who knows why. I'm beginning to believe that it's a combination of things, and when you address enough of them, vibrations can be reduced.
Keep the comments coming.
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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2014, 02:07:42 am »
How on Earth can the Moxi bars only cost $60?!?!
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Offline worncog

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2014, 11:28:38 am »
How on Earth can the Moxi bars only cost $60?!?!

China cheap.

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Offline WillyP

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2014, 02:19:01 pm »
I'm beginning to believe that it's a combination of things, and when you address enough of them, vibrations can be reduced.


I think this is the bottom line, that some of the things suggested go hand in hand. So, to summarize the options:

First line of defense is to not generate vibration as much as possible. The smoother the motor runs, the better, but obviously with the motor hard-mounted in the frame, there still will be some vibration transmitted to the frame. In a car, the motor is mounted on rubber vibration dampers, but our bikes use the motor as a part of the frame.

1) Tuneup, including carb cleaning and Steve's jet kit, valve adjustment, and maybe it's time for new plugs and wires. Carb sync, and I would suggest doing this at 4k rpm.
2) Check, shim tighten motor mounts as needed.
3) Some have suggested removing an exhaust mounting bolt, though I haven't tried that myself.

Second line of defense, is to isolate any vibration that is in the frame from the hand-grips. Tubular bars seem to work better at this than the cast factory pieces, and can give some ergonomic advantage as well. Ergonomics may not reduce vibration, but overall, will certainly reduce your perception of the vibration, and hence your comfort level, and that's the end result we want. Mounting the bars with some form of rubber isolator will give even greater benefits. These solutions will require a little creativity, and the outlay of some cash.

1) Aftermarket bars, I have the Helibars, they are very well made but rather pricey, other options could be the MOXI bars, though I haven't even seen a review of them and the low price makes me wonder about the quality. You could also buy any 7/8" tubular bars, if there is an M/C junkyard in you area, they probably have a bin of them for very little money, new ones aren't terribly expensive either. Either way, you will need an adapter. Murph has what you need: Concours Handle Bar Adapters
2) Once you have the above, it would be a simple addition to add rubber isolators if you need more isolation. Rox Anti-Vibration Risers... this is just an example you might find them cheaper elsewhere. I haven't used them myself, but someone did post a picture in this thread of these on a Connie.

And the third line of defense, dampening the vibration in the bars from your hands. You'll have to do your own research on these, I haven't used anything but regular gloves.

1) Some people have reported good results from things like bar snakes, packing the tubes with lead shot or other heavy metal objects. Others have said they don't work. If you have the stock bars, you can't fill the from the outer end of the tubular part, but the inner end has a plastic cap that can be popped off.
2) Bar ends. There are some bar ends that are made to fit the ends of the Connie's stock bars. Again, some people have said they work, some not.
3) Grips and gloves. This is a matter of putting rubber and/or gel between the bars and your hands. It just stands to reason the thicker grips and/or gloves will help reduce the vibration transmitted to your hands.
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Offline FastRocket

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2014, 02:07:26 am »
Regarding vibration from the hand grips , I used anti vibration gloves for work . You can get them at a local hardware store and I found they are great to use when using a hammer or any kind of shovel . I'm a retired HVAC mechanic and sheet metal worker so my hands are a little mangled internally from all the abuse I put them through over the years . The gloves are absolute magic . I used them to chip ice this winter and felt none of that horrid painful impact you get when your hand comes to a sudden stop against something .
 I've ridden my triple with these gloves and they work amazingly well . Use them also with the weed whacker , chain saw or even my hand drill .
 All that vibration can really put a damper into your hobby's and bike ridin enjoyment  .
 So give them a shot . Can't hurt or should I say won't hurt . 

PS ,,, one problem with these types of gloves are they can be hot and that they are either florescent orange or in my case the ones I have are florescent green which bodes well with being a Kawasaki addict .

Update

Well I'll be . They seem to have a new set of reasonably looking anti vibration gloves  :great: :great: :great:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pics+of+anti+vibration+gloves&client=firefox-a&hs=AMp&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aqXAU_apCLbNsQT7loGABg&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=625
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Offline zg2002-Murph2

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2014, 02:50:52 am »
Maybe I said this already, but that is the great part about getting older...everything is starting to seem new again 

Unless you have already tired it and hate them try one of the many items that fit the throttle grip to help you by pushing with the palm of your hand. Mine is called cramp buster, but I am sure many name brands exist. Mine was in the drawer for about 2 years after I purchased it since I primarily drive in a busy city commuting to work. What I found was I no longer had to really grip the grip and it feels more like the left hand now resting on the bar instead of squeezing it. The result is the vibration feeling is basically gone in comparison. I think it cost something like $3 or $4 bucks on Amazon, and the best bang for the buck so far that I have experienced.
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Offline FastRocket

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2014, 09:08:20 pm »
Maybe I said this already, but that is the great part about getting older...everything is starting to seem new again 

Unless you have already tired it and hate them try one of the many items that fit the throttle grip to help you by pushing with the palm of your hand. Mine is called cramp buster, but I am sure many name brands exist. Mine was in the drawer for about 2 years after I purchased it since I primarily drive in a busy city commuting to work. What I found was I no longer had to really grip the grip and it feels more like the left hand now resting on the bar instead of squeezing it. The result is the vibration feeling is basically gone in comparison. I think it cost something like $3 or $4 bucks on Amazon, and the best bang for the buck so far that I have experienced.

I've seen those on a few friends bikes and was also thinking of getting one for the con or my triple . I'm not sure but I thought I heard up here in Canada that they were illegal or something .  Not sure why but I have also seen a few fly off the bikes also . Maybe improperly installed ...
 
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Offline zg2002-Murph2

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Re: Getting rid of "the buzz"
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2014, 01:48:32 am »
I know mine (crampbuster) won't fall off unless it breaks, really tight to my grips.

Maybe you are confusing it with some of the throttle locks. I could see the locks would be illegal since they interfere with regular operation of the throttle, but this thing doesn't stop the throttle return if you take your hand off.
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