Author Topic: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad  (Read 1037 times)

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Offline rick

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HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« on: September 23, 2017, 07:07:08 pm »
Hey everyone,

I am in a real jam here with this.

I was doing a valve adjustment and accidentally (of course no one would do it on purpose) stripped an adjustment nut. 

I am in the middle of nowhere and all I have is my bike.  I have no other way of getting around, so this is really, really bad.

My question is: could I just leave that stem out, put the motor back together long enough to drive and find another nut?

Another thought I had was to use red loctite and simply freeze the stem in place so I can at least drive the bike to a junkyard I know of and get another nut.

Aside from that, I am completely open to suggestions, but for the time being, I am completely stranded.

Thanks everyone.


Offline Harry Martin

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 07:22:42 pm »
Where are you?

Stripped threads or rounded off nut?

Stripped while loosening or tightening?

Why would you do a valve adjustment while traveling? Just wondering...
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 07:43:35 pm »
Before you do something you further regret, in an attempt to make the bike temporarily operative... stop.

I don't know where you are, but you seem to have an internet connection to be able to post your question... so I assume your not in the woods... and within some semblence of civilization....

You need that specific nut, its a fine thread 7mm hardened nut, you won't find it anywhere except on a kawasaki motorcycle using the same rocker ar adjuster assembly, which would be a ninja 500, or an older zx or zg product..

Trying to locktite that screw will NOT work.
Removing the screw and attempting to ride the bike with a closed valve will result in damages far beyound the $3 for that nut....

Sorry, I'm nut much help, all I can say is don't do something you will regret... and I have no idea why you decided to do a service as this in a location as such..

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline rick

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 07:49:20 pm »
I'm at home, in a very rural area.  1 hour from any McDonald's. 

It was time for a valve adjustment and had to be done here. 

2 adjustments ago, my first, in fact, I had a nut come loose and the stem back out.  The only way I found this out is because - it  being my first adjustment, I wanted to double check my work and make sure I did it all correctly.  When I took the cover off, I noticed the missed stem and nut.  They had fallen into the top of the head out of the way.

This was a couple of hundred miles after I did the adjustment so I have no idea how long they had been off.  From this experience, I can tell you:

1)  I really did not notice a decrease in performance
2) engine sound did not change
3) once replaced, the  engine ran like it always did
4) from that point out, I REALLY tighten those nuts, because that nut came off after a very thorough tightening - which proved not to be enough.

The threads inside the nut are stripped.  Stripped by overthightening.  The stem is fine.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 08:02:12 pm by rick »

Offline rick

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 07:56:04 pm »
Thanks MOB.  As always, you are priceless.  And really, it was your advice I was seeking.

I have an internet connection because of my phone, but yeah...I'm out in the woods.

There is a massive bike graveyard a bout 7 miles up the road, but the owner is a real a******.  Retired vietnamese who wont hardly give me the time of day.

I can't be stranded like this.  Something has got to happen and right now, I'm thinking about putting the bike back together and riding the 7 miles.  For sure this guy has a nut, but god only knows if he will help me out.  But what else am I going to do?

I guess I could try and hitch hike down there, so maybe I will try that.

Christ - so wish I would not have touched those valves.  My fault, though.

Thanks so much for the input, MOB.  You have always been such a huge help.  You are appreciated.


Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 08:08:33 pm »
Ok
I understand you now... I lived rural for many years.. and get it...
Here's a list of kaw machines that use that exact nut...
Pre 2009.  (Ninja) EX500. And Vulcan 500
Pre 2005 KLR 250
Pre 1990 454 LTD and Ninja 750

Some 4 wheelers also...

I erred on the zx1000 series I think...but the above ones should help, as many have been scrapped...

Actual kaw p/n is either 92015-1325. Which may be superceded with 92210-1492

Hope that helps..
Sorry to hear of the problem

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline rick

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2017, 08:08:45 pm »
Well, hindsight being what it is...

I would have tightened that nut the way I did regardless, but I have done it this way before without anything bad happening, so, I was confident it would go well this time.

Now, in the future?  I will do this in a kawasaki dealership parking lot next time.

Offline Harry Martin

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2017, 08:14:37 pm »
MOB,

Thinking about this...what is the worst that would happen if the stem was removed?
The valve would just remain closed, right? Missing a intake/exhaust valve would just be reduced power, perhaps?

Trying to think out of the box here and if it were to happen to me.

Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2017, 08:14:47 pm »
I use a 4" long m10 crescent end wrench, pulling it with 3 fingers.. that's good ntite method.. I don't use any wrench longer than that...

The 4 wheeler models having those nuts also are

Pre 2000 Mojave 250
Pre 2007 Mule 1000

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline rick

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 08:15:45 pm »
Well, hindsight being what it is...

I would have tightened that nut the way I did regardless, but I have done it this way before without anything bad happening, so, I was confident it would go well this time.

Now, in the future?  I will do this in a kawasaki dealership parking lot next time.

Yes, that does help.  A lot. 

It's too late today, but I will try to hitchhike to the bone yard tomorrow.

It's a catch-22 situation - you live rural, you need to work on the bike, it's your only transportation, and then something goes wrong. 

Been doing this for 4 years without mishap, so I guess I was due.  I just thinking - damn, what an idiot - just HAD  to adjust those vavles, didn't ya.

But that is how I love this bike.  Don't take care of myself, but the bike is pampered and spoiled.  even my girlfriend will tell you - she takes 2nd place.

Offline rick

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 08:19:14 pm »
MOB,

Thinking about this...what is the worst that would happen if the stem was removed?
The valve would just remain closed, right? Missing a intake/exhaust valve would just be reduced power, perhaps?

Trying to think out of the box here and if it were to happen to me.

That was my thought, Harry.  Looking at it, looks like the top of the stem would just go right through the empty hole in the rocker arm.

And, BTW - thanks for the input.  If you ever find yourself in this position, you will know how much it is appreciated.

And that is another thing about this bike...you are never alone in your woes.  This place is full of great people who are here to help you.

It's a nice brotherhood and adds so much to the value of an already magnificent machine.


Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 08:20:12 pm »
MOB,

Thinking about this...what is the worst that would happen if the stem was removed?
The valve would just remain closed, right? Missing a intake/exhaust valve would just be reduced power, perhaps?

Trying to think out of the box here and if it were to happen to me.

The valve would stay closed, if it was an intake valve, severe loss of performance, and lean condition on the cylinder may be damaging.. if it was an exhaust valve, and you tried to run on one only, it would likely damage that valve in short order....and the seat...

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline rick

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2017, 08:32:18 pm »
This happened on the #2 intake, but I switched it to the #4 intake for easier access. 

Harry, how much of a factor this is, I don't know, maybe MOB does, but engine design relies on the valve breaking contact with the head as part of the cooling process.

Offline Harry Martin

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2017, 09:17:22 pm »
Well, if it was me and I had to get somewhere...I'd pull the sparkplug wire and go for it.
But that is just me.
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"

Offline DC Concours

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2017, 09:21:40 pm »
Now that MOB have cleared things up for you. My questions is why won't the retired vietnamese give you the time of day.

Did you try to make sweet love to his daughter in the boneyard?

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2017, 09:38:19 pm »
Well, if it was me and I had to get somewhere...I'd pull the sparkplug wire and go for it.
But that is just me.

Id be hard pressed to give a viable scenario, for fear someone would actually try it, and id be resposible....

But...
Pulling the plug wire, while still having 3 of 4 valves operating, still causes atomized fuel to enter the dombustion chamber... soooooo.... what happens now?
It doesn't get burned, just pumped into the hot exhaust pipe where they combine....not a good scenario either...

I guess, worst case, and that is "Zombie Appoclypse, I just ran out of ammo, no vehicle, and I just got Bitten by MoFo Zombie...and decided that before I die I would go off the wagon, and get a bottle of booze to chug...."
I would opt for removing the other intake adjuster screw, leaving both intakes non functioning, pull that wire, stick it in my moth and crank the engine over... just to jumpstart my heart... and ride to the booze store for a full bottleinfronome... in lieu of a pre frontal labotomy...

But then, I never run out of ammo... because Zombie Appocolypse is always on my mind... :great: :beerchug:

That, and I have an awesome mountain bike.... and protective clothing.... Aerostich, Zombie Response team approved.... :great:
And you don't have to outrun the Zombies, just outrun the next fattest person around you...or, nail their foot to the floor....
 :rotflmao:

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline Harry Martin

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 09:48:36 pm »
Well, if it was me and I had to get somewhere...I'd pull the sparkplug wire and go for it.
But that is just me.

Id be hard pressed to give a viable scenario, for fear someone would actually try it, and id be resposible....

But...
Pulling the plug wire, while still having 3 of 4 valves operating, still causes atomized fuel to enter the dombustion chamber... soooooo.... what happens now?
It doesn't get burned, just pumped into the hot exhaust pipe where they combine....not a good scenario either...

I guess, worst case, and that is "Zombie Appoclypse, I just ran out of ammo, no vehicle, and I just got Bitten by MoFo Zombie...and decided that before I die I would go off the wagon, and get a bottle of booze to chug...."
I would opt for removing the other intake adjuster screw, leaving both intakes non functioning, pull that wire, stick it in my moth and crank the engine over... just to jumpstart my heart... and ride to the booze store for a full bottleinfronome... in lieu of a pre frontal labotomy...

But then, I never run out of ammo... because Zombie Appocolypse is always on my mind... :great: :beerchug:

That, and I have an awesome mountain bike.... and protective clothing.... Aerostich, Zombie Response team approved.... :great:
And you don't have to outrun the Zombies, just outrun the next fattest person around you...or, nail their foot to the floor....
 :rotflmao:

I want to be on your team. I'll bring my own ammo.  >:D
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2017, 09:54:38 pm »
Now that MOB have cleared things up for you. My questions is why won't the retired vietnamese give you the time of day.

Did you try to make sweet love to his daughter in the boneyard?

PBS is running Ken Burns excellent new release about the Viet Nam war... watched the first 4 segments this week, twice... the next segments come tomorrow, and Monday,

Awesome documentary, its well worth watching...

So I guess it depended on if he retired from the NVA, or South...  my guess is, it doesn't matter if the "line" was the DMZ, the N/S border in Korea, or even the lines between Virginia and the lower states... there will always be animosity against the "other side"... so to speak.. not getting political, just giving a reason the fellow has a hard time... his "tude" might be anything, not like somebody promised him "a mule, and 40 acres"... which nobody ever saw either...


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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2017, 10:04:18 pm »
Well, if it was me and I had to get somewhere...I'd pull the sparkplug wire and go for it.
But that is just me.

Id be hard pressed to give a viable scenario, for fear someone would actually try it, and id be resposible....

But...
Pulling the plug wire, while still having 3 of 4 valves operating, still causes atomized fuel to enter the dombustion chamber... soooooo.... what happens now?
It doesn't get burned, just pumped into the hot exhaust pipe where they combine....not a good scenario either...

I guess, worst case, and that is "Zombie Appoclypse, I just ran out of ammo, no vehicle, and I just got Bitten by MoFo Zombie...and decided that before I die I would go off the wagon, and get a bottle of booze to chug...."
I would opt for removing the other intake adjuster screw, leaving both intakes non functioning, pull that wire, stick it in my moth and crank the engine over... just to jumpstart my heart... and ride to the booze store for a full bottleinfronome... in lieu of a pre frontal labotomy...

But then, I never run out of ammo... because Zombie Appocolypse is always on my mind... :great: :beerchug:

That, and I have an awesome mountain bike.... and protective clothing.... Aerostich, Zombie Response team approved.... :great:
And you don't have to outrun the Zombies, just outrun the next fattest person around you...or, nail their foot to the floor....
 :rotflmao:

I want to be on your team. I'll bring my own ammo.  >:D

Always have a place for you here Harry, you just gotta figure how to bring it over here, to my house... as I live on the shores of the worlds largest supply of drinkable water... and when yo got that in your backyard... well... Zombies don't swim.... iirc, Zombies don't surf either... hmmmmmm
Charlie? Zombie? I see some parralell...  I love the smell of Napalm in the morning... :rotflmao:

Over and out... :great: :motonoises: :beerchug:

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline rick

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2017, 10:44:54 pm »
Sounds like a survivalist.  Knew many of them when I lived in Alaska.

As for me....well, I see it this way - are zombies faster than my bike?

Because I'm pretty fast and every zombie I've seen looks doofus slow, so...

Anyway -

Harry,

The thing about Toan, the strange little viet cong.  Guy owns an atv and bike graveyard like I have never seen before.  I made a post of it here somewhere.  Amazing what this guy has in the mountains of carcasses.

But, Toan is difficult.

Sometime back, a friend of mine and I went to his shop with a set of Shadow 750 carbs for repair.  Toan said a week at $99.  Well, 3 months later, Carl got tired of waiting and we went to the shop to get his carbs.  This difficult little asian insisted he did not have them - that I had picked them up long ago.

No true.

A few times I stopped and inquired about them being finished but never picked them up.

Toan got somewhat irate over it, and me, well...I know what I do and don't do, and don't like being called a lair.  So I recoiled.

Carl MADE Toan open up the shop (which was locked) and let him look for them.  Of course, he found them - untouched.

From that day forward, the man will not give me the time of day.

About 2 weeks ago, I created a website for his business (its what I do) - nothing too elaborate, but respectable.  No other shop around even has a website but now he does.

He was completely unimpressed...saying he was retired and doesn't need anymore business (pulling a large wad of rolled bills from his pocket as he spoke).  So, he wouldn't even look at it.

But I had the same thought - I only ride bikes.  I hate cars and have not owned one in a good long time, which means Toan is an important guy to me.

So, I tried.


here is the link:  www.toan.parishpc.com

Like I said, nothing elaborate, but effective enough.  And, it looks good on everything - laptop, PC, phone, tablet...whatever.  Especially a phone.


Oh well.

 :??:


Offline Harry Martin

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2017, 11:36:18 pm »
Sad.  :(

Did a google search on his info. He has a buyer beware rating.
I'd rather take my chances with the zombies.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 12:25:32 am by Harry Martin »
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Offline rick

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2017, 04:44:45 am »
Sad.  :(

Did a google search on his info. He has a buyer beware rating.
I'd rather take my chances with the zombies.

Yeah.  That's what I said - sad.

So anyway, that is the story.  Guy is 7 miles down the road and  prob has butt loads of the nut I need.

That's life.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2017, 11:58:22 am »
So what are you gonna do? do you want me to mail you one? Steve
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Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2017, 12:07:52 pm »
Nice move Steve, I was waiting for someone with a spare nut to post. The only thing is if he is in a really rural area and has to go to post office to pick up mail. But that would be better than dealing with the retired boneyard guy.
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Offline rick

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment gone bad
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2017, 04:04:02 pm »
Now that MOB have cleared things up for you. My questions is why won't the retired vietnamese give you the time of day.

Did you try to make sweet love to his daughter in the boneyard?

PBS is running Ken Burns excellent new release about the Viet Nam war... watched the first 4 segments this week, twice... the next segments come tomorrow, and Monday,

Awesome documentary, its well worth watching...

So I guess it depended on if he retired from the NVA, or South...  my guess is, it doesn't matter if the "line" was the DMZ, the N/S border in Korea, or even the lines between Virginia and the lower states... there will always be animosity against the "other side"... so to speak.. not getting political, just giving a reason the fellow has a hard time... his "tude" might be anything, not like somebody promised him "a mule, and 40 acres"... which nobody ever saw either...

I saw that documentary.  I am a big Ken Burns fan.

No telling how many NVA ended up here after the war.