Author Topic: Installing home made block off plates. Why must reed valve be removed???  (Read 551 times)

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Offline ONO Bob

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Hey guys,

I need advice.

To kill time whilst sheltering at home, I made a set of block off plates from some 1/8" scrap aluminum.

Now, the install instructions for the Murphs kit says " reed valve must be removed"

Why is that?

The reed valve has a nice O ring gasket, would save the trouble of going to parts store to buy "form a gasket"

Thanks
ONO Bob
2006 Concours, 1978 KZ650
2002 Low Rider
1987 750 Ninja, 1987 VF700 Magna
1981 CSR 650
1977 KZ 6750

Offline ONO Bob

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OK, I looked at the Murphs product more closely.
I see it sits down in the valve cover,  in the space where the reed valve was.
So, I still have the same question.

Can I just leave the reed valve in there and put my flat cover on over it?

Thanks!
ONO Bob
2006 Concours, 1978 KZ650
2002 Low Rider
1987 750 Ninja, 1987 VF700 Magna
1981 CSR 650
1977 KZ 6750

Offline cra-z1000

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You may be able to but you would most likely  have clearance issues getting the valve cover off with them on .
1987 C 10
80 Kawasaki KZ 1000 MK 2
74 Honda 750 four ss
73 Suzuki 550 triple
72 Honda 550 four

Offline batboy

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I left the reed valves in place when I made my flat block off plates. They made noise and didn't seal very well. I had gasket material from another project, so I made two gaskets the size of the plates. Now it seals and doesn't make noise. But, I never found any bolts that were low enough of a profile that allowed you to leave them on when removing the valve cover. Don't matter, those 4 bolts on the block off plates are easy to zip off.
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Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline m in sc

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when i did a valve adjustment, i just tapped the holes in the valve cover and installed  m8 setscrews to block the holes, then flap-wheeled down the cover boxes a bit, then repainted.

I break stuff. I fix stuff. (rinse & repeat as necessary)

Offline RWulf

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Ya I did that too. Just tap the hole and install a set screw.
Done. No gaskets, no screw heads in the way and more
clearance.

Offline Stasch

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'm in sc' and 'RWulf' -  did you need to use some type of washer to seal the screws?
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Offline m in sc

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i used blue loctite, but i also tapped it down maybe halfway to make a thread stop. it does not leak.
I break stuff. I fix stuff. (rinse & repeat as necessary)

Offline ONO Bob

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M C and Rwulf...    great idea.
  I don't have the tools, but a friend does.
May have to do that next valve check.

I was thinking teflon tape to ensure a good thread seal
Cheers
2006 Concours, 1978 KZ650
2002 Low Rider
1987 750 Ninja, 1987 VF700 Magna
1981 CSR 650
1977 KZ 6750

Offline m in sc

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teflon tape as an fyi, is only for tapered threads. (thread seal threads), I actually work on the valve industry, this is a huge pet peeve of mine.  :beerchug:

  use loctite.
I break stuff. I fix stuff. (rinse & repeat as necessary)

Offline ONO Bob

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Bat Boy.
Thanks for the feedback.

My bike is an 06 with low miles, the O rings on the reed valves seem pretty resilient.
I'll go with just them first,  and then not be surprised if they're noisy, and prolly wind up getting some gasket material.
If I get ambitious I'll tap the vale holes per Wulf and MC.

ONO Bob


2006 Concours, 1978 KZ650
2002 Low Rider
1987 750 Ninja, 1987 VF700 Magna
1981 CSR 650
1977 KZ 6750

Offline m in sc

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as an fyi, the hole is the right size to just run an M8 tap down. (future reference). just tap is enough for the setscrew to sit flush and you are done there.

I have tiny weepholes drilled on the lower corners of the remains of the boxes but ive never even see moisture in there so it was probably a waste of time. .02
I break stuff. I fix stuff. (rinse & repeat as necessary)

Offline RWulf

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Yep just tap down low enough to set the screw all the way into the cam cover.
The soft aluminum will deform enough to lock the set screw in and hold it.

Offline batboy

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The next time I have the valve cover off, I might put set screws in, but I looked at my tap set and guess which size is broken? The 8mm of course. I really should buy a new tap next time I'm at the hardware store. Although, if I can find some allen button head fasteners. that would work with my homemade flat covers. A forum member mention he used a steel cover plate from an electric box. I had a couple extra, so I copycatted.

Bob, if you decide you need gasket material, most auto part stores have sheets of it for sale. I bought a variety set from Mr. Gasket. It was a little cheaper than the others and the package had more sheets than the rest.
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Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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I've mentioned the "tap and plug" procedure many times over the last 14 years, it is the most effective and surefire "eco" fix.

You don't have to have a M8 tap to do it, a simple SAE 5/16" -18 UNC  or 5/16-24 UNF tap will do the job, as they are basically the same diameter as an M8... just use the correct corresponding allen head set screw.

Blow out the chips, when doing this on the bench, and then apply Black RTV sealant to the screw threads, and install...   done deal.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 08:16:26 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline batboy

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MOB, thanks for the info. I do have both course and fine 5/16" taps. I saw Amazon has the 5/16 stainless steel set screws in 18 pitch. I also saw they have the low-profile button-head bolts too. What did we do before Amazon one click shopping?
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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We went to Lowe's...
or ordered from McMaster Carr... fast shipping, and low prices...  ;)

oh, don't waste money on S/S screws that are never gonna need to be removed, and will be covered up anyway... :great:

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline batboy

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I forgot about McMasters Carr, it's been years since I used them.

If you have a Lowes close to you, great. It's 45 miles away from me and now the whole State is locked down.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline crag antler

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Been using McMaster Carr for years. Hospital I used to work at, I could order and pay with payroll deduction. Always use to joke if they sold motorcycle parts/ accessories, I'd be broke. :)) :))
Doug aka crag antler
00’ C-10 w/ 60k +

Offline Douglas

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you're just going to cause detonation poor fuel economy and hurt ridability. You're also going to guzzle more fuel but for no benefit because the EGR system is used at moderate throttle, not idle or WOT. So why make yourself miserable with all this work? You aren't going to make any more horsepower...
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Offline ONO Bob

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you're just going to cause detonation poor fuel economy and hurt ridability. You're also going to guzzle more fuel but for no benefit because the EGR system is used at moderate throttle, not idle or WOT. So why make yourself miserable with all this work? You aren't going to make any more horsepower...


[Thanks for the feedback.
I did not know this.
I have not to heard this before.
I did not do it for more horsepower.
I did it because I don't like all the clutter.
I ride very conservatively due to health issues - recurrent vertigo
I can't ride fast, I can't ride far, I can't ride often.
But when I can, I still like to ride.

I'll keep the parts JIC the issues you mention become a problem

Thanks again
ONO Bob]
2006 Concours, 1978 KZ650
2002 Low Rider
1987 750 Ninja, 1987 VF700 Magna
1981 CSR 650
1977 KZ 6750

Offline m in sc

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you're just going to cause detonation poor fuel economy and hurt ridability. You're also going to guzzle more fuel but for no benefit because the EGR system is used at moderate throttle, not idle or WOT. So why make yourself miserable with all this work? You aren't going to make any more horsepower...

thats just not true. I agree about the HP, no diff, but it does make the exhaust run cooler as its not pulling in fresh air and enhancing the burn in the exhaust.  Its not an egr system. it DOES pull air from the airbox and pull it thru the exhaust when the valves open. But eliminating it doesn't affect rideability or idle whatsoever.
I break stuff. I fix stuff. (rinse & repeat as necessary)

Offline ONO Bob

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you're just going to cause detonation poor fuel economy and hurt ridability. You're also going to guzzle more fuel but for no benefit because the EGR system is used at moderate throttle, not idle or WOT. So why make yourself miserable with all this work? You aren't going to make any more horsepower...

thats just not true. I agree about the HP, no diff, but it does make the exhaust run cooler as its not pulling in fresh air and enhancing the burn in the exhaust.  Its not an egr system. it DOES pull air from the airbox and pull it thru the exhaust when the valves open. But eliminating it doesn't affect rideability or idle whatsoever.

[ Thanks MC.
Does it make the C10 a little less hot to ride?  I hope so.
I went half naked last year, still too hot.
I bought a Madstad this winter, hoping some airflow under the windshield will help.
No chance to try it yet.
2006 Concours, 1978 KZ650
2002 Low Rider
1987 750 Ninja, 1987 VF700 Magna
1981 CSR 650
1977 KZ 6750

Offline connieklr

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Reeds left in place can cause an interference issue:


Allen head set screws in place:


Covers:


Machined plug for air box:


Plug in place:


Initial screws. Still had to remove a couple to remove valve cover:


Changed to countersunk. No screws need removed now:


And that's all I have to say about that.
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Guy Young
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COG Life Member
Semi-Civilian
GB Young Services, LLC

Offline ONO Bob

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That's a mouthful Guy. LOL
Thanks for the input.
I'll remove the reeds and buy or borrow a tap and plug the holes.

2006 Concours, 1978 KZ650
2002 Low Rider
1987 750 Ninja, 1987 VF700 Magna
1981 CSR 650
1977 KZ 6750