Author Topic: Jets  (Read 646 times)

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Offline The Doctor

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Jets
« on: October 31, 2018, 04:51:39 pm »
Hey all,

So finally wound up with a Connie (two to be precise). So doing all the normal new-to-me kinda stuff as far as changing fluids, making sure air filters are clean, and checking and adjusting valve clearances.

I know the carbs are definitely a potential problem with hydrolock, so am having another rider coach come over in a week or two to teach me the black arts that is carburetors. After browsing through an old issue of Chalkdust, there was a discussion of jet sizes. I don't remember the exact specifics, but I remember numbers like 120 and 130 being thrown around, with talk about the bikes performing better under non-stock sizes of jets. What exactly do these numbers mean? And is there a way to know which size is currently in the bike? Are they printed on the jets?

Any other advice or help you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Carbs are the one area that I'm definitely the least knowledgeable about, but I figure it's about time to change that, especially with this particular bike.




Offline connie_rider

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Re: Jets
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 06:40:51 pm »
Hi Doc.
The Pilot and main Jetts that you are r3efriing to will have a number stamped on them.
I don't recall the numbers either, but "think" the California Connies are the only ones that originally had different Jett sizes.
There is a chance that bikes sold in higher elevation's might have had different jetting when new, but I am not certain of that.
     Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Additionally; There is a chance that someone else has changed jetts in your carbs.

If you go thru your carbs, "the float level and how well the fuel flow is controlled by the float system" is more important than any stock jets that are in them.

One of our own, Steve Sefsick is our Carb Guru. He has developed a special method of jetting the Connie carbs for peak performance. He can tell you far more than I.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Jets
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2018, 07:34:20 pm »
with regards to Jetting sizes, best to not change them from what they are, if your bike is running fine....
the differences were basically the Cali bikes vs 49 state bikes..
Cali bikes seemed to have one size larger primary jet, which was supposedly done to allow/force rapid 'warmup' to preclude using the enrichener for a longer period during startup... in an effort to 'reduce' emissions during the warmup period.

as for the mods to jetting, SISF's specific 2 Minute Mod jetting, is not just a jet swap, he combines the modification of the air intake path using a foam insert, with a specific 'modified' jet pair, which is "top secret"... so all I can say is without years of trials and study, it's not likely you will 'improve' anything with a simple jet swap, and probably reduce the mpg during the process...
so adding to what Ted just said, a set of perfectly immaculately cleaned carbs, with good needles and diaphragms, and the floats set accuratly and correctly, will give the best you can get, with correctly set valves.

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Jets
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2018, 08:30:52 pm »
Digging thru my Manual I found,,,
Std main Jet     125 (Calif 130)
adj. for Hi Alt    122 (Calif 128)
    Std Pilot         35
Hi Alt  Pilot         32

Hi Altitude; My manual Sez; To improve the Emission Control Performance above 4000 ft, Kawasaki recommends the following Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) approved specifications.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Jets
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 08:53:26 pm »
these are the part numbers/model locations from my Concourier article;

92063 92063-1014    JET-MAIN,#135 4 [CA]
92063A 92063-1069    JET-MAIN,2ND,#125    4   
92063B 92063-1072    JET-MAIN,#120 4 [CN,US]
92063C 92063-1073    JET-MAIN,2ND,#122    4 [CN,US]
92063D 92063-1074    JET-MAIN,2ND,#128    4 (RACING USE ONLY)
92063E 92063-1075    JET-MAIN,#130    4 [CA]
92063F 92063-1075    JET-MAIN,#130    4 [CN,US]
92063G 92063-1076    JET-MAIN,#132   4 [CA]
92064 92064-1101    JET-PILOT,#35        4   

seemed like a lot of 'variables' and I honestly don't remember why I included them all...
that was a long time ago.

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Offline Mettler1

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Re: Jets
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2018, 09:41:25 pm »
  I did my carbs a couple of times. Man of Blues knows carbs so I did mine a couple of times. His tutoring helped me a lot and I didn't do to bad  :) but I sent my carbs to SiSFS' spa. He has all the special equipment and sonic bath to get them CLEAN!!! Then he sets them up RIGHT!! Which is an art also!!
   Steve has done hundreds of carbs!!
  When I got them back from Steve and installed I couldn't believe how good they are. Easy starts and spot on acceleration!! Never had a better set of carbs!! Worth every nickel!!!

  Have had them for 2 yrs and still run great!!  Can even turn the idle down to 400 rpm and still instant acceleration!! My normal idle is 1000 rpm for oil lube purposes.


  Man of Blues knows the Concours as good as anybody on the forum so I respect his advice also!! BUT I can't hold a candle to his knowledge either!!! :great:
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 02:04:37 am by Mettler1 »
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline jettawreck

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Re: Jets
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2018, 09:48:15 pm »
Yeah, for what SISF does (and does very well) his charges are worth it. Done and done right.
Snowmobiles, I have a bunch.
Motorcycles-I haven't had anything except dirtbikes 30 years ago, so this will be all new to me.
2005 C10 with Rifle w/s, SISF Exhaust sprocket, overflow tubes, 2 minute jet mod. (SOLD)
2004 Honda ST1300-the current mule.

Offline Mcfly

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Re: Jets
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2018, 10:44:43 pm »
Almost 5 years on my SISF carbs, and still no issues.  Runs great.
I added his exhaust cam sprocket, and the difference is huge.
Worth giving it a thought. 

Performance -- Rear: C14 Shock - Front: Sonic 1.1 w/emulators, Fork Brace - SISF Jet Mod & Ex Cam Sprocket - Tokico front brakes
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Jets
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2018, 12:14:20 am »
  I did my carbs a couple of times. Man of Blues knows carbs so I did mine a couple of times. His torturing helped me a lot and I didn't do to bad  :)


damned spell check... I hope you meant TUTORING....
 :)) :)) :)) :)) :rotflmao: :nananana: :nananana: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: >:D :)) :))

and I taught Steve everything he knows about carbs.... evvvvryyyyy thing.... u
yeah... that's the ticket... I learned it all from the Dali Lama... yeah... yeaah, we were great pals... that's the ticket...  back then I was going by the name, Tommy Flanagan...
yeh....

https://youtu.be/pkYNBwCEeH4


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Offline Mettler1

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Re: Jets
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2018, 02:08:23 am »
  Ya got me Rich!!! My English teacher really tried. :-[ :-[  And now I got you to set me straight. :great:
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline JPD

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Re: Jets
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2018, 02:27:41 am »
The most important thing to Steve  (sisf) service is the overflow tube installation. This is what will prevent hydro-lock. I might have been able to rebuild my own carbs, but I didn't want to try to install the overflow tubes. It can be done and others have but Steve has the setup and fast turn times.

Offline bajasam

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Re: Jets
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2018, 03:55:40 am »
as you can tell,most on this forum worship steve's skills, but i prefer not to pay 25% of the cost of my entire bike for a carb rebuild.so if you dont have a fist full of ben franklins to throw around and have a knowledgeable buddy to coach you just tell him to leave the main jets alone,change out the slow jets to 38's,add a .020 ace hardware washer under your needle,2 turns out on the mixture screw and leave the slide and spring alone.this will eliminate the low speed stumble when going to wide open.but first make sure your valve lash is good,floats set to 17-18mm with a new float valve needle and fuel rail o-rings if your bike has more than a few years on it since the last redo.enjoy your c-10, its an old dinosour but very basic and easy to work on yourself,good luck
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 04:36:11 am by bajasam »

Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Jets
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2018, 09:45:52 am »
Although the full Monte is the easiest way to go and will produce superb results you  could just send the carbbie bowls to SISF for overflow tube install if letting loose of Franklins is an issue. At least then you would have real protection from hydrolock.

You will not have the benefit, however, of how much better the bike will run. Some reading material and excellent videos:

https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/intake-and-exhaust

I've been to his shop and seen him work. He has a Connie engine set up at exactly the correct angle the he mounts the carbbies on to actually verify float settings.

BTW, he has done several hundred sets, over two thousand individual sets just on Connies, plus a few KLR's including mine.

He really is a tuning whiz.

Disclosure:

I've known him and benefited from his services for over twelve years.

Welcome aboard.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Jets
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2018, 06:58:33 pm »
Ok Doc, stop whatever you are planning on doing and get Steve's 2mm mod jet kit. It will save you months of head aches and save millions of lives.
"Some days you're the windshield, and some days you're the bug" Get used to it cause thats life !!!

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Jets
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2018, 09:10:42 pm »
or just realllllly clean the carbs while you send the bowls to Bubba for tubes only (the price is fine, considering what you get for that money), and while your gasket and float needles are on the way from Murph's, you can get the whole thing done....

Pizza Cake
 :great: :great: :great: :great: ;)

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Offline The Doctor

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Re: Jets
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2018, 09:28:04 pm »
Price point is definitely a factor. Considered I scooped up two bikes for sub $1000, it would be just about 100% of the purchase price just to get the carbs worked on. Plus I wouldn't get the chance to learn anything in the process. I know it's the right thing to do, but especially since I'm brand new to the ownership, feel as though I should take it one bite at a time, rather than jumping in head first and sinking a few thousand into a bike I haven't actually ridden yet aside from around the block.

Not to even mention suspension upgrades... (that's my weakness)

So will probably start off with just cleaning them and learning how to rebuild from my tech buddy. With the eventual plan of doing it the right way after I've bonded a bit more with her.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Jets
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2018, 09:54:55 pm »
well, seeing as a simple carb kit for doing all 4 on your bike runs $70, (+ $20 if you wisely get the screw kit, to replace all those feeble phillips screws with nice stainless allen heads... highly recomended by the way...) add in the $80 for the overflow tubes and insure you don't have an issue is a wise choice... forget about suspension upgrades... if the bike doesn't run, and is sitting in the garage.... the suspension is just fine...
https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=130&osCsid=MfPo99h7Ya2OsPi1THAr0

stick to the basics... make the bike run well, then if you like it, feed the FARKLE monster...

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Jets
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2018, 10:54:02 pm »
Doc, your a man after my own heart. I also  enjoy taking it apart and fixing/modifying myself.
AS you have someone to work with that sounds like he's knowledgeable, yes do go ahead and give it a try.
bajasam has a pretty good recipite to follow too.
Be careful to clean every passage and most important, set the float heights.

If you get into it and say OMG what have I got myself into,,, send it to Steve.
    But don't send it to him taken apart or put together wrong..

That being said, the last set I delt with, I sent to Steve... (Because) the Floats valves were driving me crazy.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 02:19:48 am by connie_rider »
14 Connie (Traveler II) / 03 Connie (Buddy)
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Help us make "OtP" possible again!!

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Jets
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2018, 01:59:59 am »
both Steve, and I, are pretty used to "fixing" carbs that have been ... "fixed"...

 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

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Offline The Doctor

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Re: Jets
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2018, 05:27:09 pm »
There's a shop in town that has different pricing for whether or not you've already "fixed" it  :rotflmao:

Once (if) I get bike #2 up and running I might just wind up sending those carbs to Steve, but definitely would like the learning opportunity. I've been on the side of the road a couple times, and so far have been able to Mickey-Mouse stuff back together good enough to get me home. Carbs are the final frontier for me, so definitely wanna get in there and figure it out (with supervision of course).

A ColorTune was also included with the bike, so that should help with tuning the carbs, yeah?

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Jets
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2018, 06:38:02 pm »

A ColorTune was also included with the bike, so that should help with tuning the carbs, yeah?


  I used a wideband 02 sensor, drilled and mounted into the exhaust. Real data.   :motonoises: Steve
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Offline The Doctor

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Re: Jets
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2018, 07:54:56 pm »
Real data.

Now you're just talking dirty to me  :) I'm a psych analyst.


Offline Jorge

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Re: Jets
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2018, 02:01:47 am »
Hey Doc,
I'm no carb experts so I'll just say welcome to the monkey house  :great:

Offline Thud300

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Re: Jets
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2018, 03:48:50 pm »
SISF. There is no substitute.  ;D
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Offline Lee

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Re: Jets
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2018, 07:44:43 pm »
While discussing jets? Has any one ever jetted for fuel economy? I know the engine is de-tuned for sport touring, but is there any further economic jetting benefit? Has such been explored by members here?