Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours Discussion (C10 / ZG1000 / 1000GTR) => Concours C10 / ZG1000 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: DangerousDan on November 18, 2018, 02:36:22 am

Title: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on November 18, 2018, 02:36:22 am
I know,, I'm on a rampage through the forums here,, sorry bout that, I got  Crysis (concours) fever badly.  The front left cam makes more noise  than all other engine parts combined.  ( Isolated it with hammer to ear )  Its a light tapping, specifically timed with rpm, loudest when she's cold.  It can be heard best below 3.5 rpm, and doesn't stand out above 5 rpm (but my slip ons are pretty loud too).  In power band engine sounds great (7-10 grand), but again, I don't think my slip ons have baffles in them.  In truth ,, the engine sounds so good, the light tapping just stands out, and is clearly only from the left front cam, even without stethoscope. I'd guess its a single exhaust valve too tight, or lose.  Cause you can hear all the others purring beautifully in the back ground.

  I checked for lose exhaust manafold  retainers, have not checked for hydrolock bent rod,, cause I dun wanna no ::) , and she is not the type to pee anywhere, not a single drop of anything. (no, she has no over flow tubes, yet)
Exhaust seems pretty even, but my Crysis idles like an alcohol burning race car, not even like all the other bikes I've owned.
 But as the bike is new to me,, I can only say, previous owner never had an issue, nor I and I checked the petcock and put an inline shut off which I use no matter what.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: Mettler1 on November 18, 2018, 03:11:54 am
  Could be the auto cam chain adjuster getting ready to adjust to the next notch OR a valve adjuster getting a little lose. My C10 is a little noisy nearing time to adjust valves. Although I was told a tappy valve is a happy valve. To tight on the valve adjustment can burn a valve.

  Camchain adjuster can get a little noisy before it self adjust but it usually self adjust by it self.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on November 18, 2018, 06:26:58 am
Oh my,, and it is on the left I see.  Ok,, I'll chill on that for a while and get her ready for a road trip with fellow COGGERS ;)  .  Too bad I had to buy my first C10 right at the start of winter  :??:
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: Bud on November 18, 2018, 10:04:41 am
Quote
In power band engine sounds great (7-10 grand), but again, I don't think my slip ons have baffles in them.
I'd lighten up on the runs to redline if you're planning on keeping this for the long haul.  It sounds like you're riding it like you stole it and you just got it.  Be nice to her and she'll be around for a long long time.  Beat her like a newly licensed teenager and you'll be setting yourself up for some work.  Someone with more knowledge than myself can explain it in detail I'm sure.  One more thing......if you don't already have riding gear, buy the best you can afford and wear it religiously.  Helmet, gloves, jacket, pants and boots.  If you ever hit the ground, you'll be glad you did!
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: SteveJ. on November 18, 2018, 12:15:09 pm
I rode my c-10 like a rental quite a bit. I just never did it in a situation where it was not completely warmed up.

Hard accells in the 5-9k rpm range is music to the soul. The last compression check at about 165k miles was 185-190 lbs. I sold the bike with 234k on it and is has successfully passed the quarter million mile mark. Unfortunately, that bike has met it's demise from an accident.

The bike was meticulously maintained. I didn't want it to break down. It never left me stranded on the side of the road in all those miles as it and I toured almost all of English and French speaking N. America.

So go ahead and make that motor sing. It is most excellent mental health therapy.  :motonoises: :beerchug:

I now ride my '15 itty bitty six fiddy Versys in the same way. So far at 51k miles it's doing just fine.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 18, 2018, 07:52:16 pm
  Could be the auto cam chain adjuster getting ready to adjust to the next notch OR a valve adjuster getting a little lose. My C10 is a little noisy nearing time to adjust valves. Although I was told a tappy valve is a happy valve. To tight on the valve adjustment can burn a valve.

  Camchain adjuster can get a little noisy before it self adjust but it usually self adjust by it self.

I kind of agree with what Bud eluded to, and curtail the top rpm runs a bit, at least until you have gone over the bike a bit more.... it's a '91, making it 28 years old technology, and has no rev limiter... so consider this as a warning so to speak, that it really wasn't designed to be ridden at "Max Volume"...  :rotflmao:

now, back to the noise thing...
unless you have removed the valve cover, and inspected the valve clearances (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED at this point), you won't know what exists under there... so a tapping as noted, may in fact be a single valve adjuster screw/lock nut that is backing off... revving high at this point would be a bad thing, so do yourself the favor, and inspect and adjust as needed... then ride it like you stole it.... :motonoises:

also, the '91 model (all pre '94's also) have a cam chain adjuster the utilizes a spring and rotating threaded rod adjuster, so it is less likely to ascertain when it "extends" to provide tension; the '94 and up models have a spring pressing against a rod, and have ratcheting notches to overcome at the point where it "adjusts" to the next notch, so it's not as likely to be as cut and dried 'by sound changes' on if and when your particular bike tightens the chain, as with a post '93 bike.

best of luck, sounds like you have a very desirable machine there, I always loved that paint color, and also the Corbin Gunfighter saddle (I have one in silver/gray leather... not for sale) which I found to be the most comfortable solo seat ever made, and sadly they stopped production of it decades ago...
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 01:46:42 am
after a quick carb sync  I learned how to post a quick vid,
 
https://www.facebook.com/daniel.shinerock/videos/2053505494738219/ (https://www.facebook.com/daniel.shinerock/videos/2053505494738219/)

This is stone cold , another first try start after being parked for 2 cold rainy days.  It starts better,   It no longer sounds like an alcohol burning funny car, always starts on first try stone cold even in below freezing temps, the low end seems more solid, which makes the high end seem less exaggerated I think.  Otherwise I'd think I lost high end for low end.  And the sound I started this thread about seems to only be noticeable at about  2-3.5k rpm and seems most noticeable when it is cold .  The engine never really gets warm even in 30 mile trips to work and back.  So I haven't been opening her up to test the power band like I was at the end of summer.  Above 5grand rpm she sounds perfect, always has.  How does the 800 rpm idle sound to you COGGERS?  I'll post an rpm rev vid next chance I get, But I think I got her pretty dialed in for long road trips now, except I have to fix the annoying speedo cable wine that occurs in cold weather occasionally.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: SteveJ. on December 24, 2018, 02:00:14 am
after a quick carb sync  I learned how to post a quick vid,
 
https://www.facebook.com/daniel.shinerock/videos/2053505494738219/ (https://www.facebook.com/daniel.shinerock/videos/2053505494738219/)

This is stone cold , another first try start after being parked for 2 cold rainy days.  It starts better,   It no longer sounds like an alcohol burning funny car, always starts on first try stone cold even in below freezing temps, the low end seems more solid, which makes the high end seem less exaggerated I think.  Otherwise I'd think I lost high end for low end.  And the sound I started this thread about seems to only be noticeable at about  2-3.5k rpm and seems most noticeable when it is cold .  The engine never really gets warm even in 30 mile trips to work and back.  So I haven't been opening her up to test the power band like I was at the end of summer.  Above 5grand rpm she sounds perfect, always has.  How does the 800 rpm idle sound to you COGGERS?  I'll post an rpm rev vid next chance I get, But I think I got her pretty dialed in for long road trips now, except I have to fix the annoying speedo cable wine that occurs in cold weather occasionally.

Iffn you are gonna run the bike quite a bit in colder weather I would suggest covering the oil cooler completely and some of the radiator to get your temps up a bit. Also would suggest a 195* thermostat available in Stant, get the SuperStat.

If you don't mind spending a bit over a honey bee check out the Therm-o-Bob. Good stuff for maintaining an even proper temp in the cooling system.

Running cold is tough on the engine as it doesn't warm enough to burn off the water out of the oil.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: bajasam on December 24, 2018, 02:05:01 am
you dont seem to pay much attention to everybody telling you to do a valve adjustment,there's a meaningful reason their suggesting it especially for racer dudes like yourself who touch the 10k mark often.i'd give a look see under that valve cover before crysis revolts.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 03:30:39 am
I have the gauges, the know how, and will to do that, but I don't have a shop to cleanly deal with all the parts. Where you see her parked in a tin roofed open shed in the video,  is where I work on her.  I'll have to wait until nice weather to tear that deep into her. During winter all my construction equipment and other two bikes are under cover and readily available for hasty loading to do side jobs.  Still though, hearing it idol at 35 degrees Fahrenheit 10 seconds after starting her , you did not mention how it sounds at low idol.  :??:  She sounds as good as any reliable bike I ever owned to me.  Better actually, still having that growling , "coming to chew something up" sound I love about her.  My kids say it sounds much meaner than the other bikes you hear screeming around at insane rpm at night around here. My oldest says Crysis sounds much deeper, bigger, and meaner when they hear me tearing about.
  Any how,, was hoping to hear from some regarding the engine sound stone cold idol.  It only gets quieter when its warm.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 03:33:37 am
after a quick carb sync  I learned how to post a quick vid,
 
https://www.facebook.com/daniel.shinerock/videos/2053505494738219/ (https://www.facebook.com/daniel.shinerock/videos/2053505494738219/)

This is stone cold , another first try start after being parked for 2 cold rainy days.  It starts better,   It no longer sounds like an alcohol burning funny car, always starts on first try stone cold even in below freezing temps, the low end seems more solid, which makes the high end seem less exaggerated I think.  Otherwise I'd think I lost high end for low end.  And the sound I started this thread about seems to only be noticeable at about  2-3.5k rpm and seems most noticeable when it is cold .  The engine never really gets warm even in 30 mile trips to work and back.  So I haven't been opening her up to test the power band like I was at the end of summer.  Above 5grand rpm she sounds perfect, always has.  How does the 800 rpm idle sound to you COGGERS?  I'll post an rpm rev vid next chance I get, But I think I got her pretty dialed in for long road trips now, except I have to fix the annoying speedo cable wine that occurs in cold weather occasionally.

Iffn you are gonna run the bike quite a bit in colder weather I would suggest covering the oil cooler completely and some of the radiator to get your temps up a bit. Also would suggest a 195* thermostat available in Stant, get the SuperStat.

If you don't mind spending a bit over a honey bee check out the Therm-o-Bob. Good stuff for maintaining an even proper temp in the cooling system.

Running cold is tough on the engine as it doesn't warm enough to burn off the water out of the oil.


 So glad you brought that up,, it crossed my mind.  Crysis runs so cool I don't dare open her up now.  But I had not thought about the oil cooler, I bet that helps a lot.  Thanx man.  PS  how did she sound to you stone cold idling?
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 04:08:25 am
you dont seem to pay much attention to everybody telling you to do a valve adjustment,there's a meaningful reason their suggesting it especially for racer dudes like yourself who touch the 10k mark often.i'd give a look see under that valve cover before crysis revolts.
 

As I stated above, it just got one .  Every time I talked to Jimmy about it (previous owner) he gets more annoyed stating with no uncertainty that it just had a professional valve adjustment prior to sale.  Jimmy didn't ride it much, he was too short (great rider though) and dropped it a couple times before selling it, saying he could barely push it out of his garage.  I'm pretty sure now, after the carb sync and extensive concourse study, the valves are dead on, and an aging cam chain , or adjuster is getting ready to tick.  My experience with valves is that you can hear them throughout the rpm spectrum.  Lose slop or tight metallic clicks.  That is not what I'm hearing at all.  And it comes and goes with temperature and only at a very limited rpm.  As if the cam chain gets to vibrating with a tiny bit of slop at 2 to 3 grand.  Then it smooths out and is completely silent.  I'll post a vid with some rpm examples next time I have someone around with a camera phone and the bike is warm.   Opinions upon hearing it run, from people expert on this bike,  can speak volumes.  I hate cracking cases when its not necessary.  If it aint broken, don't try to fix it, as it were.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DC Concours on December 24, 2018, 05:00:44 am
This bike should not start right up in cold weather. It should require the application of the choke to start. You have a/f mixture issues.

Your idle rpm should be 1000-1100. Unless you are in sub-arctic temps, the bike should warm up fine after a few mins of idling with the choke on. And after a 30 mile ride the bike should be very warm. If riding in cold weather the coolant temps may not rise much (while in motion) but if you idle at a stop the temp gauge should rise. Else you have other issues.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: m in sc on December 24, 2018, 03:09:20 pm
id check the valves. even 'professionals' make mistakes, i've fixed plenty of them.  the only thing that will need cleaning, if anything, will be the valve cover gasket surface. it can be done outside easily. I ride mine pretty hard, but i don't abuse it.. a lot.  Since you are beating it like a racebike, treat it as such and do some preventative before you break something.  .02
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: connie_rider on December 24, 2018, 05:45:55 pm
In the vid, RPM sounds too low and sounds like a valve needs adjusting to me.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 06:36:44 pm
This bike should not start right up in cold weather. It should require the application of the choke to start. You have a/f mixture issues.

Your idle rpm should be 1000-1100. Unless you are in sub-arctic temps, the bike should warm up fine after a few mins of idling with the choke on. And after a 30 mile ride the bike should be very warm. If riding in cold weather the coolant temps may not rise much (while in motion) but if you idle at a stop the temp gauge should rise. Else you have other issues.

Lol, your assuming an awful lot, its nearly insulting to my intellect., yes you have to full choke it when its cold for 10 seconds or so before backing the choke off a bit, just like all the dozens of other bikes I've had. (but she always starts instantly, first push of the button since my carb sync).
 High idols waste fuel  and good running machines don't need that high an idol, in fact I consider the ability to reliably idol around 8 hundred rpm a sign of a good running engine.  Besides, when she gets a good running temp, the idol picks up a bit, and smooths out.   Acting like I can't simply turn the idol screw in about half a second to raise the idol, or that low idol is somehow hurting the bike,  is a bit weird to me
 As far as temp, of course it will get hot if I leave it running at a stand still, or at least get the needle to the middle of the gauge. But running in the rain in 30 and 40 degree temps, it barely clears the cold flat spot at the beginning of the temp gauge, and rides right on the beginning of warm line no matter how fast Im going (below 80).  Its like a double liquid cooling, with all the water soaking the radiators as I ride (I live in rainy South Oregon).  Having had so many bikes, I just don't like revving an engine that is not "good n warm".  But a cool running bike is not a problem, its a good thing ,  I will cover the oil cooler as Steve suggested for better winter oil flow.  The thermostat is perfect for summer riding, nice and cool ,but well into the good n warm center of the guage (even at extended riding above 80 mph), the only issue is your assuming im an idiot.  LOL  I was hoping for responses on the  sound of Crysis's top end (cams and valves), stone cold  :),   Anyhow, thanx for all the negative feedback that had nothing to do with my question on this thread, but you said nothing I didn't learn about 30 years ago. I guess you don't like the way do things.  Too bad, I was hoping for some insightful comments on her mechanical sounds.  but its still poring out, and the drive way is a deep mud puddle now,, she is stuck in the shed.  I won't be posting her reeving sounds anytime soon.  Seems to annoy people anyhow, the way I do things  :)). 
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 06:40:47 pm
In the vid, RPM sounds too low and sounds like a valve needs adjusting to me.

Ride safe, Ted
Thanx man,, I'll look forward to your opinion when I warm her up and throttle it a bit too.  Trying to isolate that little noise I hear only when she's running cool has been a pain.  I've owned mostly Honda's, and a couple Suzuki's, and other imports, this is my first Kawasaki.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 06:48:39 pm
id check the valves. even 'professionals' make mistakes, i've fixed plenty of them.  the only thing that will need cleaning, if anything, will be the valve cover gasket surface. it can be done outside easily. I ride mine pretty hard, but i don't abuse it.. a lot.  Since you are beating it like a racebike, treat it as such and do some preventative before you break something.  .02

Do you think hearing the engine throughout the full  temperature and rpm spectrum is a reliable indication?  Or can mal -adjusted valves be very hard to detect by hearing on this bike? Because I'v always been able to hear them on other models.  pulled covers off only to find they are running nice and lose within spec range.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 07:34:46 pm
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=tightropetb&p=Kawasaki+concours+1000+cam+chain+tensioner+youtube#id=4&vid=5f245ef46b178be6167a090547bdf981&action=view

I think this is Steve?  I want to clean and reset my cam chain adjuster before opening up the valve cover, because this sounds exactly like mine when its cold. And its an easily accomplished task.  But yeah, i can hear something , specially when its cold, and its only on the left side.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 07:36:59 pm
I'm not sure if I clean the tension-er when the engine is cold or warm?
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: m in sc on December 24, 2018, 08:05:48 pm
my bike idles around 1100 rpm, its fine, not sure where yours is.  My valves were also supposedly adjusted when i got it, i trust no one else's work, so i checked mine, and yes, they were out. some were tight, some were ok, some were loose. the looses ones definitely tapped at lower rpms, wasn't as bad up high. Its a rocker arm setup so its super easy to do, we're talking maybe an hour tank on to tank off, so why not check it? the tensioner is easy to do as well. me? i cleaned and polished mine so it has nice smooth operation, (like i do on any old bike ive had with that type of tensioner),and the motor is super quiet for what it is (especially since it has stock exhaust).     
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: Boomer on December 24, 2018, 08:26:22 pm
Could be a loose tappet, or the camchain, but either way unless it's REALLY loud yer good to go. When they go quiet is when ya need to worry. As for thrashing it, go for it. The whole point of riding is to do your thing. She does have a rev limiter, when the valves start to bounce ya lose compression and thus power, but I don't recommend doing it often as it trashes the valves and valve seats.
Enjoy it, ride it, thrash it, maintain it, fondle it, and if it dies,... replace it :D
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: WillyP on December 24, 2018, 09:07:05 pm
You may not get sufficient oil pressure at 800rpm. Dan (the not so dangerous one) did some testing and that was his conclusion, IIRC. Good advice, to turn it up to 1000 or even 1100rpm. It's not a Harley.

The noise you hear is probably just the cam tensioner not clicking to the next setting, common problem. It might eventually click on it's own, or it might need a little help. But, that's no reason to not check valve clearance. It's easier than you think. Just wait for a calm day so no dirt is blowing around, lot's of us do ours outside.
Unless it's windy, it'll be fine.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 09:14:04 pm
was just out in the rain and cold, pulled the tension-er nut , spring , washer and pin off.  Promptly dropped the pin in the gravel, that was fun,, now I'm going to pull the retainer nuts and clean the tension-er , and I won't have any more options if that does not get rid of the 2k to 3.5 k noise.  I will use a pair of gauges , doing 2 at a time as Steve recommends in his videos.  But I'm still optimistic about a sticky cam chain tension-er being the problem.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 09:20:24 pm
You may not get sufficient oil pressure at 800rpm. Dan (the not so dangerous one) did some testing and that was his conclusion, IIRC. Good advice, to turn it up to 1000 or even 1100rpm. It's not a Harley.

The noise you hear is probably just the cam tensioner not clicking to the next setting, common problem. It might eventually click on it's own, or it might need a little help. But, that's no reason to not check valve clearance. It's easier than you think. Just wait for a calm day so no dirt is blowing around, lot's of us do ours outside.
Unless it's windy, it'll be fine.

That vid I posted is stone cold,, just 20 or 30 seconds running and turned the choke off (or mostly off), the idle picks up to about 1 grand when its warm. On first start up, full choke the rpms are much higher of course.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: WillyP on December 24, 2018, 09:30:39 pm
Ah... guess I misunderstood when you asked how the 800rpm idle sounded.  ;)
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 09:41:11 pm
ok,, good news,, the tension-er is out,, and in the tension bar there is a small spring that is displaced and not pushing against the tension bar, I bet that is the culpret.  anyone know what Im talking about,, its a second very small spring that presses on the locking mechanism of the tension bar, its pointing out of the notch at me instead of at the lock.  That would explain why it doesn't low it would seem.  Or why it doesn't click to the next tooth.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 24, 2018, 10:04:39 pm
Ok,, tension-er is back in, I swear it had hair tangled in it,, or something resembling hair.  I reset it and heard it click and lock as I put the main spring , pin , washer and nut back in place.  Started her up,, and ............................sounds about the same  >:(, no more dodging the open caseket any longer :truce:.  I think now I have a couple valves not too perfect  :'(  I hate working on my toys , would rather be playing on them :))
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on December 24, 2018, 11:01:59 pm
ok,, good news,, the tension-er is out,, and in the tension bar there is a small spring that is displaced and not pushing against the tension bar, I bet that is the culpret.  anyone know what Im talking about,, its a second very small spring that presses on the locking mechanism of the tension bar, its pointing out of the notch at me instead of at the lock.  That would explain why it doesn't low it would seem.  Or why it doesn't click to the next tooth.


the spring you are noting, presses against a ratchet pawl, which in turn locks the adjustment rod when it moves forward; it is a very common point that the spring kinks sideways, and is easily fixed when inspected....
I will however comment, that your 1992 model should not have that same issue, as those came with a "rotating" spring tensioned mechanism, not the inline "push spring and pin", which was introduced in 1994 IIRC.

I'll also add, please obtain and read a FSM for your bike, that way you will be able to understand the simple method for adjusting/Inspecting valve clearances.. it's not a big deal, most of us can do this in about 2 hours (novice), or 1 hour (someone that has done them)... with little effort more than you spent doing this chain adjuster fix.
You seem to equate a simple valve adjust, removing the valve cover, with something like "splitting the cases".. which confuses me in your logic. Until you actually inspect them (yes, I hear you insisting the p/o did this, and it's perfect... but then again, your carb synch, which is directly related to correct valve function, and engine operation, was never done...was never done, until you did it.. so I question the mechanic doing the work, once again.)

It will pay you to listen to all of the people that DO know these bikes, and tell you to pay attention to progressions and means/methods of servicing them, many of these people, including the one you felt "insulted your Intelligence", actually have the viable hands on experiences in these issues.... some of the commentary on your part, has me shaking my head, and asking 'WHY'..
things like insisting IDLE (not Idol) speed, at 800rpm, is doing anything good for your engine... unless you know how much oil is being pumped to critical areas, requiring proper oil film thickness and supply, you are not listening when we say IDLE should be at 1000 to 1100 rpm, which is normal and correct. There is a substantial difference in the oil pressure, and flow... to prevent damage.
(http://billyidol.net/billyidol.jpg)
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: concourscharlie on December 24, 2018, 11:52:35 pm
 :great: what MOB said! :96:
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on December 25, 2018, 03:01:11 am
Oh no , grammar nazi's , Im doomed.  ok, never mind.   And the owners manual is gone, prev owner can't find it in his shop, since his surgery.  His shop was taken over by his help during recovery.  But I can pester others with my antics.  I always did hate forums, they don't show facial expressions and sarcastic humor very well.  But I have done too many valve jobs to look forward to it.  Thanx for all the feedback .  I am tired this too.  Sometimes the best way is to go it alone.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: Mettler1 on December 25, 2018, 04:02:53 am
.  I always did hate forums, they don't show facial expressions and sarcastic humor very well.  But I have done too many valve jobs to look forward to it.  Thanx for all the feedback .  I am tired this too.  Sometimes the best way is to go it alone.


            Here is one!!  :motonoises: :motonoises:
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: cra-z1000 on December 25, 2018, 12:18:44 pm
Oh no , grammar nazi's , Im doomed.  ok, never mind.   And the owners manual is gone, prev owner can't find it in his shop, since his surgery.  His shop was taken over by his help during recovery.  But I can pester others with my antics.  I always did hate forums, they don't show facial expressions and sarcastic humor very well.  But I have done too many valve jobs to look forward to it.  Thanx for all the feedback .  I am tired this too.  Sometimes the best way is to go it alone.


Take it with a grain of salt around here man .These are all good folks , ya just gotta take some crap once in awhile...lol. If you want your Concours right , this is the place for sure . If you become a member you have access to the tech pages and Concourier articles . Those are way better that any service manual and beat asking and recieving a bunch of answers . I havent cracked the cover of my manual since I joined and I've had to do plenty of work to my 30 year old bike .
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: Daytona_Mike on December 25, 2018, 02:32:05 pm
How does the 800 rpm idle sound to you COGGERS?
Dam...to be very honest with you it sounds like cr@p!! That is not a Harley engine!
Do not let that engine idle below 1100 RPM. You have very very little oil pressure when you do that.
That is a Ninja based engine and it likes to rev which means it is bad to lug or low idle that engine. For example.. my KTM race engines MUST idle at 1800rpm and NOT below that. Other bikes that I know are even higher..2200RPM  is normal idle. Below that is bad. So listen to what we are telling you. We know!!
My Suggestion: You should really get rid of that automatic cam  chain tensioner and buy an APE manual tensioner


Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on February 19, 2019, 11:14:26 pm
HA HA,, all you know it all baboons who insist the most important thing in life is rep open a perfectly running engine need to listen to people like Steve,, and others who actually heard what I typed and said it might be the chain tension er. ,, today, having ridden all winter, when I started old Crysis up, stone cold,  she immediately did a weird little momentary squeal and clic before hitting a good "Idol" (for Dork of Blues) and the click on the left side is completely gone.  I rode her for about an hour and OMG,, she sounds so good, no valve or clicking in any rpm,, she is ready for the road, it was the auto tension er just on the verge of clicking a tooth.  However, I am shocked at how fast she eats rear tires,, OMG,, maybe I do need to leave first gear alone and drop the Wheely a shafty practice.  I actually have a bit of a flat spot from winter riding and not much leaning on the wet or icy roads.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on February 19, 2019, 11:31:03 pm
How does the 800 rpm idle sound to you COGGERS?
Dam...to be very honest with you it sounds like cr@p!! That is not a Harley engine!
Do not let that engine idle below 1100 RPM. You have very very little oil pressure when you do that.
That is a Ninja based engine and it likes to rev which means it is bad to lug or low idle that engine. For example.. my KTM race engines MUST idle at 1800rpm and NOT below that. Other bikes that I know are even higher..2200RPM  is normal idle. Below that is bad. So listen to what we are telling you. We know!!
My Suggestion: You should really get rid of that automatic cam  chain tensioner and buy an APE manual tensioner

No offense but keep  your advice .  I dont' want your advice at all, I'm sure the designers over in Japan that created this amazing machine know more than you.  Today the auto tensioner clicked and the engine sounds like a vicious dream.  So my conclusion is your advice is worthless and Japanese designers know what they are doing to minimize my maintenance time.  And for the record on your low oil pressure crap?  Get a clue, your talking to someone who has owned about 20 motor bikes and never takes any engine in to be repaired, I do it all myself, always have always will.  There are lots of smart people in the world.  You might to well to realize, if it aint broken , don't try to fix it.  Sorry, but some of you "negative nancy" types just give the forums a bad rep man.  "GET A LIFE", is appropriate as MOB sig suggests IMO.  I ride bikes,, I don't consider working on them much fun.  I buy good sounding engines to ride them until they die and I get another.  Sorry if you don't like that.  But this now 75K+ C10 is going to last a very long time and runs perfect even under extreme pressure to perform.  I wheely her, I take her past 10k RPM, and I go 130 mph+ on her.  Talk all you want,, it aint going to kill this machine , I know a good sounding engine when I hear one.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: JPD on February 20, 2019, 04:08:06 am
Wow,  why did you ask for help if you knew it all already?

30 plus bikes that were ridden until used up? I have been riding 30 years with only six bikes and never used one up.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on February 20, 2019, 04:30:22 am
How does the 800 rpm idle sound to you COGGERS?
Dam...to be very honest with you it sounds like cr@p!!


Look Daytona, sorry for jumping on you, but the question was regarding metallic , left side clicking .   It got derailed by people making other "observations" that , frankly are very obvious.  You have a right to your opinion, and are not aware of the circumstances leading to what sounds I posted and why.  As a hint, I'll share that I had just given it a carb sync yesterday, and it was stone cold running with almost no choke.  Everyone knows what happens as they warm up.  I just got tired of explaining that.  I never turn the choke off so quickly , only did it to listen test the top end  and check carb sync (it can idol all the way down to 600 ish reliably).   I have learned you can learn a whole lot by listening to the upper end at extremely low idles.  Maybe I needed to explain that better.  But don't fret, this C10 is in very loving hands, and she knows she's loved.  Yes, I'm a hot head.  I enjoy putting my foot upon peoples faces in real life.  Sorry bout snapping at you.  Nothing worse than a hothead multi black belt C10 rider in a midlife "Crysis" (name of my bike), (aka, grammar nazi MOB bait)
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on February 20, 2019, 04:53:58 am
Oh no , grammar nazi's , Im doomed.  ok, never mind.   And the owners manual is gone, prev owner can't find it in his shop, since his surgery.  His shop was taken over by his help during recovery.  But I can pester others with my antics.  I always did hate forums, they don't show facial expressions and sarcastic humor very well.  But I have done too many valve jobs to look forward to it.  Thanx for all the feedback .  I am tired this too.  Sometimes the best way is to go it alone.


Take it with a grain of salt around here man .These are all good folks , ya just gotta take some crap once in awhile...lol. If you want your Concours right , this is the place for sure . If you become a member you have access to the tech pages and Concourier articles . Those are way better that any service manual and beat asking and recieving a bunch of answers . I havent cracked the cover of my manual since I joined and I've had to do plenty of work to my 30 year old bike .

Yeah, sorry bout that, I am a hot head, and pride myself on being able to repair anything myself.  Maybe becoming full member will help me avoid the "obvious " staters?  Anyhow, the first responders were right, the auto tension just clicked and no more metallic noise what so ever, now to learn to use an I phone to post updates and actual running sounds instead of having my daughters Bfriend do it for me?  Naaa ;)
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on February 21, 2019, 12:14:59 am
  Nothing worse than a hothead multi black belt C10 rider in a midlife "Crysis" (name of my bike), (aka, grammar nazi MOB bait)

([url]http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=75712.0;attach=55902;image[/url])


simply astounding.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: donaldj on February 21, 2019, 12:51:39 am
 :rotf
  Nothing worse than a hothead multi black belt C10 rider in a midlife "Crysis" (name of my bike), (aka, grammar nazi MOB bait)

([url]http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=75712.0;attach=55902;image[/url])


simply astounding.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on February 21, 2019, 01:23:42 am
donaldj  OMG,, your pic,, its my bike,, the black with red stripe c10, your instantly an amazing man in my book  :beerchug:  I still am not sure the year, I owe a few hundred on it still and the frame says 91, but registration says 92, but the auto adjuster is post 93.  Though I have the 6 spoke wheels.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: donaldj on February 21, 2019, 11:02:47 am
Dan, The picture is small and the bike looks black,  the color is actually candy amaranth red with gray lowers, (dark purple), it is a 1999. Your bike was built in late 1991 but was sold as a 1992. The color of the 1991 Connie is candy persimmon red and has white pin striping. I am 75 and have been involved in motorcycling since I was 14, over the years, I have owned a lot of motorcycles and a lot of different brands, some pretty and new and some old and ugly, couldn't afford a pretty one at that time, we were raising 5 children. The thing is I loved all of them. I have been on a lot of forums myself, this one is by far the best! I don't post a lot but I read a lot.  The majority of the people on this site will go out of there way to help you with any problems you may have. Being new to the site with your first Connie they haven't a clue to your knowledge of motorcycles, and I don't think for a minute any one was intentionally talking down to you or questioning your abilities as a mechanic. 

Welcome as a Connie rider, welcome to the forum and as stated earlier consider joining COG.  :beerchug:

Blessings to you and yours and ride safe man!
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: Boomer on February 21, 2019, 02:55:31 pm
Dan, yer right, the Japanese engineers who designed it know what they are talking about, and they say to set the Idle at 1,000+/-50rpm and 1,200+/-50rpm for Californicated models.
Ya also need to take a few deep breaths before answering some of the comments on here.
Only some of these idiots are trying to wind you up, the rest of us idiots are actually trying to help ya.  :great:
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DC Concours on February 21, 2019, 03:52:44 pm
Hahahaha. This thread is getting funny now.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on February 21, 2019, 07:33:15 pm
Donald,
Interesting you mention about '91 vs '92.
The actual "build date", iirc, is on the white VIN sticker on the steering head, and also stamped into the metal; but more importantly the actual model year can be discerned from the serial number, which would contain the "code" for model year, and "epa zone" (i.e., Cali, or Canada, or Other US model).. that "letter coding" in the VIN detects those...
 no idea why his title/registration shows him a '93... which may be an error...
but unless it was a "rebuild" with '92-'93 plastic, the color schema is pretty much all you can go on without a VIN.

Also, VIN on steering head sticker will often vary from the "engine number" stamped on the top of the case, so that cannot be relied upon to be an accurate "date" thing for the completed bike as sold (no issue, engines were not always stamped with same number from factory).
1992
 ZG1000-A7
        Color: Ebony  (Black with Red pin striping
        Clutch and brake lever reach now adjustable on some models.
1993
 ZG1000-A8
        Color: Ebony. (Black with Red pin striping)

as for his comment about rims and cam chain adjuster,

ALL PRE '94 had the same rims, and the "rotary" CC adjuster.
Ratchet adjuster came later, many people retrofitted them on earlier bikes

http://forum.cog-online.org/1986-2006-zg1000-and-gtr1000/concours-colors-and-changes-through-the-years/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/1986-2006-zg1000-and-gtr1000/concours-colors-and-changes-through-the-years/)

I'm in question about this VIN thing, even tho we have this post doing explanation of the characters... I remember there was something in error on it.

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/vin-numbers/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/vin-numbers/)

https://www.motosport.com/blog/how-to-read-and-check-your-motorcycle-or-atv-vin (https://www.motosport.com/blog/how-to-read-and-check-your-motorcycle-or-atv-vin)

here's another "online" thing... but it seems full of holes also...

https://www.motorcycleforums.net/forum/tips-training/5800-how-decode-vin-number.html (https://www.motorcycleforums.net/forum/tips-training/5800-how-decode-vin-number.html)

Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DC Concours on February 21, 2019, 08:03:23 pm
MOB, is there a way to find out if a bike has the original engine from the vin or engine number comparison.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: donaldj on February 21, 2019, 08:05:48 pm
MOB. I had to reread his post. The title has it listed as a 92, I think he just kind of threw the 93 year in there. I knew there were more ways to tell a year and the vin # just slipped my mind, I was in a rush. You posted some good info for Dan to do some research with. Thanks for the information.
Ride safe and Blessings to you and yours.
 :great:
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on February 21, 2019, 09:44:33 pm
MOB. I had to reread his post. The title has it listed as a 92, I think he just kind of threw the 93 year in there. I knew there were more ways to tell a year and the vin # just slipped my mind, I was in a rush. You posted some good info for Dan to do some research with. Thanks for the information.
Ride safe and Blessings to you and yours.
 :great:

my pleasure Don, not an issue... he just doesn't like me, because he has no clue about me...or my efforts, and frankly won't listen at times. no big deal. If it soaks in, maybe it will help, if it doesn't...meh.... :rotflmao:
I've been called worse thing than Dork, by people of much higher caliber... ;) ;)

trying to "bait" me anymore, is kinda like throwing "Chum" in your bath tub water... ;)

MOB, is there a way to find out if a bike has the original engine from the vin or engine number comparison.

Easy answer? well, "No.". there is no way... but,
compare what you find, often there WILL be 'similar' number sequence in both,(most do) but it's not gospel on "all" of the year models.. many year/bikes had completely odd engine numbers, and many coincided, it was due to projected builds/prebuilding engines in Japan vs Here/ shipping and supply chain to meet the domestic build schedule/and stock.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: connie_rider on February 21, 2019, 09:57:13 pm
If it helps, the engine on my C-10 originally came off of a 92/93 Black Connie.
It is ZGT00AE0 and a (5 digit number)
It has the newer style tensioner on it...

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on February 21, 2019, 10:27:57 pm
If it helps, the engine on my C-10 originally came off of a 92/93 Black Connie.
It is ZGT00AE0 and a (5 digit number)
It has the newer style tensioner on it...

Ride safe, Ted

what's the "tenth digit" in the serial number...?  oh wait, you just got the engine, not the bike it came out of...
somebody swapped the tensioner prior to you.. I promise... ::) :nananana: :nananana:

my '86 had the newer ratchet style also, when I "bought it"... it didn't come from the factory with it installed... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: connie_rider on February 21, 2019, 10:34:35 pm
Do the numbers I posted indicate year of engine?

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on February 23, 2019, 10:31:01 pm
I don't know,, I can see on the frame , fork column it says 91, registration says 92, have not found engine numbers and don't intend to be taking the plastic off again anytime soon.  So far I fixed everything that was bothering me except the cracked left mirror it came with.
 Fixed: horn, blinker issue,  carb sync, metalic click left side (cam chain), have installed manual inline fuel shut off after the petcock, hard wired radar detector, re-glued the seat cover on one side (custom corbin I think), all new fluids.  She sounds perfect now, good gas millage, and starts on first try every time.  Only thing left that I'm concerned with  is new shoes  that are the right size, 120 front tire sucks on handling at insane speeds.   110 is proper and what I'm getting , soon.
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on February 23, 2019, 10:36:07 pm
If it helps, the engine on my C-10 originally came off of a 92/93 Black Connie.
It is ZGT00AE0 and a (5 digit number)
It has the newer style tensioner on it...

Ride safe, Ted

that is probably my bike, black with red stripe plastic.  Where can I find the numbers your indicating?
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on February 24, 2019, 12:18:35 am
top of the deck, below carb #4
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on February 24, 2019, 12:20:56 am
Do the numbers I posted indicate year of engine?

Ride safe, Ted

no
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: DangerousDan on February 28, 2019, 12:09:38 am
Never thought I'd say this, but, grudgingly, thanx MOB, I still don't like you  :D. 
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on February 28, 2019, 12:44:24 am
 :great: ;)

you don't have to like me, I'm not here to be a popularity queen, I'm only here to assist people with good tech, to give back what I've learned on this (and other specific) bike(s).

 ;)

just be safe
in 20 more years, you will understand. :great:
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: Bud on February 28, 2019, 10:21:32 am
Never thought I'd say this, but, grudgingly, thanx MOB, I still don't like you  :D.
Good to see you settling in to the group. :great:
Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: LeeM on March 03, 2019, 09:36:25 am
Well, I'm adding my 4.5 trillion dollar opinion, on the heels of a whole bunch of Concours guys who really do know a lot. My Connie has 86,000 miles and I would say when a Connie gets to 72000 miles or 17 years of age various systems need a good dollop of new parts. 

From how you describe the engine temperature action, I would say your bike is ready for several replacement parts.The thermostat housing uses a very odd gasket and the upper straight cooling hose should be a Japanese item as unfortunately a Napa American dimension hose will leak. Observe the cooling fan switch, the cooling fan should come on when the temp gauge is halfway up. The Connie cooling system has an air pocket down at the water pump when first filled. Some say "burp" the system and I used a hand held mechanic's vacuum pump with a stopper.

You mentioned your work area is a shed.  Yes, that makes it harder to do things to the bike. And you have not mentioned your age. If you have noticed any difficulty seeing, I recommend you get a rechargeable Black Diamond headlamp. For comfort working on concrete or grass, I suggest snag an empty appliance carton for a temporary work surface.

And guess what, sometimes I hear a light ping or tapping on my left front valve cover and I'm reading forum posts trying to figure out what it is. I'll watch for the answer when you find and fix that light ping or tapping.

Title: Re: Light ping or tapping
Post by: Bud on March 03, 2019, 11:28:54 am
HA HA,, all you know it all baboons who insist the most important thing in life is rep open a perfectly running engine need to listen to people like Steve,, and others who actually heard what I typed and said it might be the chain tension er. ,, today, having ridden all winter, when I started old Crysis up, stone cold,  she immediately did a weird little momentary squeal and clic before hitting a good "Idol" (for Dork of Blues) and the click on the left side is completely gone.  I rode her for about an hour and OMG,, she sounds so good, no valve or clicking in any rpm,, she is ready for the road, it was the auto tension er just on the verge of clicking a tooth.  However, I am shocked at how fast she eats rear tires,, OMG,, maybe I do need to leave first gear alone and drop the Wheely a shafty practice.  I actually have a bit of a flat spot from winter riding and not much leaning on the wet or icy roads.
It's been fixed for a while now.  Sounds like your tensioner needs a look.