Author Topic: Light ping or tapping  (Read 2644 times)

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Offline DangerousDan

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Light ping or tapping
« on: November 18, 2018, 02:36:22 am »
I know,, I'm on a rampage through the forums here,, sorry bout that, I got  Crysis (concours) fever badly.  The front left cam makes more noise  than all other engine parts combined.  ( Isolated it with hammer to ear )  Its a light tapping, specifically timed with rpm, loudest when she's cold.  It can be heard best below 3.5 rpm, and doesn't stand out above 5 rpm (but my slip ons are pretty loud too).  In power band engine sounds great (7-10 grand), but again, I don't think my slip ons have baffles in them.  In truth ,, the engine sounds so good, the light tapping just stands out, and is clearly only from the left front cam, even without stethoscope. I'd guess its a single exhaust valve too tight, or lose.  Cause you can hear all the others purring beautifully in the back ground.

  I checked for lose exhaust manafold  retainers, have not checked for hydrolock bent rod,, cause I dun wanna no ::) , and she is not the type to pee anywhere, not a single drop of anything. (no, she has no over flow tubes, yet)
Exhaust seems pretty even, but my Crysis idles like an alcohol burning race car, not even like all the other bikes I've owned.
 But as the bike is new to me,, I can only say, previous owner never had an issue, nor I and I checked the petcock and put an inline shut off which I use no matter what.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 02:47:40 am by DangerousDan, Reason: remembered detail »
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2018, 03:11:54 am »
  Could be the auto cam chain adjuster getting ready to adjust to the next notch OR a valve adjuster getting a little lose. My C10 is a little noisy nearing time to adjust valves. Although I was told a tappy valve is a happy valve. To tight on the valve adjustment can burn a valve.

  Camchain adjuster can get a little noisy before it self adjust but it usually self adjust by it self.
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Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2018, 06:26:58 am »
Oh my,, and it is on the left I see.  Ok,, I'll chill on that for a while and get her ready for a road trip with fellow COGGERS ;)  .  Too bad I had to buy my first C10 right at the start of winter  :??:
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
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Offline Bud

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2018, 10:04:41 am »
Quote
In power band engine sounds great (7-10 grand), but again, I don't think my slip ons have baffles in them.
I'd lighten up on the runs to redline if you're planning on keeping this for the long haul.  It sounds like you're riding it like you stole it and you just got it.  Be nice to her and she'll be around for a long long time.  Beat her like a newly licensed teenager and you'll be setting yourself up for some work.  Someone with more knowledge than myself can explain it in detail I'm sure.  One more thing......if you don't already have riding gear, buy the best you can afford and wear it religiously.  Helmet, gloves, jacket, pants and boots.  If you ever hit the ground, you'll be glad you did!
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Online SteveJ.

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2018, 12:15:09 pm »
I rode my c-10 like a rental quite a bit. I just never did it in a situation where it was not completely warmed up.

Hard accells in the 5-9k rpm range is music to the soul. The last compression check at about 165k miles was 185-190 lbs. I sold the bike with 234k on it and is has successfully passed the quarter million mile mark. Unfortunately, that bike has met it's demise from an accident.

The bike was meticulously maintained. I didn't want it to break down. It never left me stranded on the side of the road in all those miles as it and I toured almost all of English and French speaking N. America.

So go ahead and make that motor sing. It is most excellent mental health therapy.  :motonoises: :beerchug:

I now ride my '15 itty bitty six fiddy Versys in the same way. So far at 51k miles it's doing just fine.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
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'15 Versys650LT, '98 KLR650, (back home), '99 C-10, 234k miles sold

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2018, 07:52:16 pm »
  Could be the auto cam chain adjuster getting ready to adjust to the next notch OR a valve adjuster getting a little lose. My C10 is a little noisy nearing time to adjust valves. Although I was told a tappy valve is a happy valve. To tight on the valve adjustment can burn a valve.

  Camchain adjuster can get a little noisy before it self adjust but it usually self adjust by it self.

I kind of agree with what Bud eluded to, and curtail the top rpm runs a bit, at least until you have gone over the bike a bit more.... it's a '91, making it 28 years old technology, and has no rev limiter... so consider this as a warning so to speak, that it really wasn't designed to be ridden at "Max Volume"...  :rotflmao:

now, back to the noise thing...
unless you have removed the valve cover, and inspected the valve clearances (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED at this point), you won't know what exists under there... so a tapping as noted, may in fact be a single valve adjuster screw/lock nut that is backing off... revving high at this point would be a bad thing, so do yourself the favor, and inspect and adjust as needed... then ride it like you stole it.... :motonoises:

also, the '91 model (all pre '94's also) have a cam chain adjuster the utilizes a spring and rotating threaded rod adjuster, so it is less likely to ascertain when it "extends" to provide tension; the '94 and up models have a spring pressing against a rod, and have ratcheting notches to overcome at the point where it "adjusts" to the next notch, so it's not as likely to be as cut and dried 'by sound changes' on if and when your particular bike tightens the chain, as with a post '93 bike.

best of luck, sounds like you have a very desirable machine there, I always loved that paint color, and also the Corbin Gunfighter saddle (I have one in silver/gray leather... not for sale) which I found to be the most comfortable solo seat ever made, and sadly they stopped production of it decades ago...

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2018, 01:46:42 am »
after a quick carb sync  I learned how to post a quick vid,
 
https://www.facebook.com/daniel.shinerock/videos/2053505494738219/

This is stone cold , another first try start after being parked for 2 cold rainy days.  It starts better,   It no longer sounds like an alcohol burning funny car, always starts on first try stone cold even in below freezing temps, the low end seems more solid, which makes the high end seem less exaggerated I think.  Otherwise I'd think I lost high end for low end.  And the sound I started this thread about seems to only be noticeable at about  2-3.5k rpm and seems most noticeable when it is cold .  The engine never really gets warm even in 30 mile trips to work and back.  So I haven't been opening her up to test the power band like I was at the end of summer.  Above 5grand rpm she sounds perfect, always has.  How does the 800 rpm idle sound to you COGGERS?  I'll post an rpm rev vid next chance I get, But I think I got her pretty dialed in for long road trips now, except I have to fix the annoying speedo cable wine that occurs in cold weather occasionally.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Online SteveJ.

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2018, 02:00:14 am »
after a quick carb sync  I learned how to post a quick vid,
 
https://www.facebook.com/daniel.shinerock/videos/2053505494738219/

This is stone cold , another first try start after being parked for 2 cold rainy days.  It starts better,   It no longer sounds like an alcohol burning funny car, always starts on first try stone cold even in below freezing temps, the low end seems more solid, which makes the high end seem less exaggerated I think.  Otherwise I'd think I lost high end for low end.  And the sound I started this thread about seems to only be noticeable at about  2-3.5k rpm and seems most noticeable when it is cold .  The engine never really gets warm even in 30 mile trips to work and back.  So I haven't been opening her up to test the power band like I was at the end of summer.  Above 5grand rpm she sounds perfect, always has.  How does the 800 rpm idle sound to you COGGERS?  I'll post an rpm rev vid next chance I get, But I think I got her pretty dialed in for long road trips now, except I have to fix the annoying speedo cable wine that occurs in cold weather occasionally.

Iffn you are gonna run the bike quite a bit in colder weather I would suggest covering the oil cooler completely and some of the radiator to get your temps up a bit. Also would suggest a 195* thermostat available in Stant, get the SuperStat.

If you don't mind spending a bit over a honey bee check out the Therm-o-Bob. Good stuff for maintaining an even proper temp in the cooling system.

Running cold is tough on the engine as it doesn't warm enough to burn off the water out of the oil.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
Tick Tock, baby (Ironbuttal)
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Offline bajasam

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2018, 02:05:01 am »
you dont seem to pay much attention to everybody telling you to do a valve adjustment,there's a meaningful reason their suggesting it especially for racer dudes like yourself who touch the 10k mark often.i'd give a look see under that valve cover before crysis revolts.

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2018, 03:30:39 am »
I have the gauges, the know how, and will to do that, but I don't have a shop to cleanly deal with all the parts. Where you see her parked in a tin roofed open shed in the video,  is where I work on her.  I'll have to wait until nice weather to tear that deep into her. During winter all my construction equipment and other two bikes are under cover and readily available for hasty loading to do side jobs.  Still though, hearing it idol at 35 degrees Fahrenheit 10 seconds after starting her , you did not mention how it sounds at low idol.  :??:  She sounds as good as any reliable bike I ever owned to me.  Better actually, still having that growling , "coming to chew something up" sound I love about her.  My kids say it sounds much meaner than the other bikes you hear screeming around at insane rpm at night around here. My oldest says Crysis sounds much deeper, bigger, and meaner when they hear me tearing about.
  Any how,, was hoping to hear from some regarding the engine sound stone cold idol.  It only gets quieter when its warm.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2018, 03:33:37 am »
after a quick carb sync  I learned how to post a quick vid,
 
https://www.facebook.com/daniel.shinerock/videos/2053505494738219/

This is stone cold , another first try start after being parked for 2 cold rainy days.  It starts better,   It no longer sounds like an alcohol burning funny car, always starts on first try stone cold even in below freezing temps, the low end seems more solid, which makes the high end seem less exaggerated I think.  Otherwise I'd think I lost high end for low end.  And the sound I started this thread about seems to only be noticeable at about  2-3.5k rpm and seems most noticeable when it is cold .  The engine never really gets warm even in 30 mile trips to work and back.  So I haven't been opening her up to test the power band like I was at the end of summer.  Above 5grand rpm she sounds perfect, always has.  How does the 800 rpm idle sound to you COGGERS?  I'll post an rpm rev vid next chance I get, But I think I got her pretty dialed in for long road trips now, except I have to fix the annoying speedo cable wine that occurs in cold weather occasionally.

Iffn you are gonna run the bike quite a bit in colder weather I would suggest covering the oil cooler completely and some of the radiator to get your temps up a bit. Also would suggest a 195* thermostat available in Stant, get the SuperStat.

If you don't mind spending a bit over a honey bee check out the Therm-o-Bob. Good stuff for maintaining an even proper temp in the cooling system.

Running cold is tough on the engine as it doesn't warm enough to burn off the water out of the oil.


 So glad you brought that up,, it crossed my mind.  Crysis runs so cool I don't dare open her up now.  But I had not thought about the oil cooler, I bet that helps a lot.  Thanx man.  PS  how did she sound to you stone cold idling?
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2018, 04:08:25 am »
you dont seem to pay much attention to everybody telling you to do a valve adjustment,there's a meaningful reason their suggesting it especially for racer dudes like yourself who touch the 10k mark often.i'd give a look see under that valve cover before crysis revolts.
 

As I stated above, it just got one .  Every time I talked to Jimmy about it (previous owner) he gets more annoyed stating with no uncertainty that it just had a professional valve adjustment prior to sale.  Jimmy didn't ride it much, he was too short (great rider though) and dropped it a couple times before selling it, saying he could barely push it out of his garage.  I'm pretty sure now, after the carb sync and extensive concourse study, the valves are dead on, and an aging cam chain , or adjuster is getting ready to tick.  My experience with valves is that you can hear them throughout the rpm spectrum.  Lose slop or tight metallic clicks.  That is not what I'm hearing at all.  And it comes and goes with temperature and only at a very limited rpm.  As if the cam chain gets to vibrating with a tiny bit of slop at 2 to 3 grand.  Then it smooths out and is completely silent.  I'll post a vid with some rpm examples next time I have someone around with a camera phone and the bike is warm.   Opinions upon hearing it run, from people expert on this bike,  can speak volumes.  I hate cracking cases when its not necessary.  If it aint broken, don't try to fix it, as it were.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
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carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline DC Concours

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2018, 05:00:44 am »
This bike should not start right up in cold weather. It should require the application of the choke to start. You have a/f mixture issues.

Your idle rpm should be 1000-1100. Unless you are in sub-arctic temps, the bike should warm up fine after a few mins of idling with the choke on. And after a 30 mile ride the bike should be very warm. If riding in cold weather the coolant temps may not rise much (while in motion) but if you idle at a stop the temp gauge should rise. Else you have other issues.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 05:04:19 am by DC Concours »

Offline m in sc

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2018, 03:09:20 pm »
id check the valves. even 'professionals' make mistakes, i've fixed plenty of them.  the only thing that will need cleaning, if anything, will be the valve cover gasket surface. it can be done outside easily. I ride mine pretty hard, but i don't abuse it.. a lot.  Since you are beating it like a racebike, treat it as such and do some preventative before you break something.  .02

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2018, 05:45:55 pm »
In the vid, RPM sounds too low and sounds like a valve needs adjusting to me.

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Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2018, 06:36:44 pm »
This bike should not start right up in cold weather. It should require the application of the choke to start. You have a/f mixture issues.

Your idle rpm should be 1000-1100. Unless you are in sub-arctic temps, the bike should warm up fine after a few mins of idling with the choke on. And after a 30 mile ride the bike should be very warm. If riding in cold weather the coolant temps may not rise much (while in motion) but if you idle at a stop the temp gauge should rise. Else you have other issues.

Lol, your assuming an awful lot, its nearly insulting to my intellect., yes you have to full choke it when its cold for 10 seconds or so before backing the choke off a bit, just like all the dozens of other bikes I've had. (but she always starts instantly, first push of the button since my carb sync).
 High idols waste fuel  and good running machines don't need that high an idol, in fact I consider the ability to reliably idol around 8 hundred rpm a sign of a good running engine.  Besides, when she gets a good running temp, the idol picks up a bit, and smooths out.   Acting like I can't simply turn the idol screw in about half a second to raise the idol, or that low idol is somehow hurting the bike,  is a bit weird to me
 As far as temp, of course it will get hot if I leave it running at a stand still, or at least get the needle to the middle of the gauge. But running in the rain in 30 and 40 degree temps, it barely clears the cold flat spot at the beginning of the temp gauge, and rides right on the beginning of warm line no matter how fast Im going (below 80).  Its like a double liquid cooling, with all the water soaking the radiators as I ride (I live in rainy South Oregon).  Having had so many bikes, I just don't like revving an engine that is not "good n warm".  But a cool running bike is not a problem, its a good thing ,  I will cover the oil cooler as Steve suggested for better winter oil flow.  The thermostat is perfect for summer riding, nice and cool ,but well into the good n warm center of the guage (even at extended riding above 80 mph), the only issue is your assuming im an idiot.  LOL  I was hoping for responses on the  sound of Crysis's top end (cams and valves), stone cold  :),   Anyhow, thanx for all the negative feedback that had nothing to do with my question on this thread, but you said nothing I didn't learn about 30 years ago. I guess you don't like the way do things.  Too bad, I was hoping for some insightful comments on her mechanical sounds.  but its still poring out, and the drive way is a deep mud puddle now,, she is stuck in the shed.  I won't be posting her reeving sounds anytime soon.  Seems to annoy people anyhow, the way I do things  :))
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2018, 06:40:47 pm »
In the vid, RPM sounds too low and sounds like a valve needs adjusting to me.

Ride safe, Ted
Thanx man,, I'll look forward to your opinion when I warm her up and throttle it a bit too.  Trying to isolate that little noise I hear only when she's running cool has been a pain.  I've owned mostly Honda's, and a couple Suzuki's, and other imports, this is my first Kawasaki.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2018, 06:48:39 pm »
id check the valves. even 'professionals' make mistakes, i've fixed plenty of them.  the only thing that will need cleaning, if anything, will be the valve cover gasket surface. it can be done outside easily. I ride mine pretty hard, but i don't abuse it.. a lot.  Since you are beating it like a racebike, treat it as such and do some preventative before you break something.  .02

Do you think hearing the engine throughout the full  temperature and rpm spectrum is a reliable indication?  Or can mal -adjusted valves be very hard to detect by hearing on this bike? Because I'v always been able to hear them on other models.  pulled covers off only to find they are running nice and lose within spec range.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2018, 07:34:46 pm »
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=tightropetb&p=Kawasaki+concours+1000+cam+chain+tensioner+youtube#id=4&vid=5f245ef46b178be6167a090547bdf981&action=view

I think this is Steve?  I want to clean and reset my cam chain adjuster before opening up the valve cover, because this sounds exactly like mine when its cold. And its an easily accomplished task.  But yeah, i can hear something , specially when its cold, and its only on the left side.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2018, 07:36:59 pm »
I'm not sure if I clean the tension-er when the engine is cold or warm?
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline m in sc

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2018, 08:05:48 pm »
my bike idles around 1100 rpm, its fine, not sure where yours is.  My valves were also supposedly adjusted when i got it, i trust no one else's work, so i checked mine, and yes, they were out. some were tight, some were ok, some were loose. the looses ones definitely tapped at lower rpms, wasn't as bad up high. Its a rocker arm setup so its super easy to do, we're talking maybe an hour tank on to tank off, so why not check it? the tensioner is easy to do as well. me? i cleaned and polished mine so it has nice smooth operation, (like i do on any old bike ive had with that type of tensioner),and the motor is super quiet for what it is (especially since it has stock exhaust).     

Offline Boomer

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2018, 08:26:22 pm »
Could be a loose tappet, or the camchain, but either way unless it's REALLY loud yer good to go. When they go quiet is when ya need to worry. As for thrashing it, go for it. The whole point of riding is to do your thing. She does have a rev limiter, when the valves start to bounce ya lose compression and thus power, but I don't recommend doing it often as it trashes the valves and valve seats.
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Offline WillyP

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2018, 09:07:05 pm »
You may not get sufficient oil pressure at 800rpm. Dan (the not so dangerous one) did some testing and that was his conclusion, IIRC. Good advice, to turn it up to 1000 or even 1100rpm. It's not a Harley.

The noise you hear is probably just the cam tensioner not clicking to the next setting, common problem. It might eventually click on it's own, or it might need a little help. But, that's no reason to not check valve clearance. It's easier than you think. Just wait for a calm day so no dirt is blowing around, lot's of us do ours outside.
Unless it's windy, it'll be fine.
Smart people look like crazy people to stupid people.
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Offline DangerousDan

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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2018, 09:14:04 pm »
was just out in the rain and cold, pulled the tension-er nut , spring , washer and pin off.  Promptly dropped the pin in the gravel, that was fun,, now I'm going to pull the retainer nuts and clean the tension-er , and I won't have any more options if that does not get rid of the 2k to 3.5 k noise.  I will use a pair of gauges , doing 2 at a time as Steve recommends in his videos.  But I'm still optimistic about a sticky cam chain tension-er being the problem.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline DangerousDan

  • Deer Magnet Dan
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Re: Light ping or tapping
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2018, 09:20:24 pm »
You may not get sufficient oil pressure at 800rpm. Dan (the not so dangerous one) did some testing and that was his conclusion, IIRC. Good advice, to turn it up to 1000 or even 1100rpm. It's not a Harley.

The noise you hear is probably just the cam tensioner not clicking to the next setting, common problem. It might eventually click on it's own, or it might need a little help. But, that's no reason to not check valve clearance. It's easier than you think. Just wait for a calm day so no dirt is blowing around, lot's of us do ours outside.
Unless it's windy, it'll be fine.

That vid I posted is stone cold,, just 20 or 30 seconds running and turned the choke off (or mostly off), the idle picks up to about 1 grand when its warm. On first start up, full choke the rpms are much higher of course.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching