Author Topic: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?  (Read 653 times)

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Offline Indy C10

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Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« on: June 07, 2019, 08:40:54 pm »
Recently installed a SISF exhaust cam sprocket and adjusted the valves.  Now I have major noise coming from the valve cover that doesn’t go away even after warmed up.  For reference I also placed custom block off plates under the reed valves and placed the tops back on.  The following is a video of the bike making the terrible noise.  The smoke is a leaking water pump.  Seals are on the there way. 

Any help is appreciated.

Could it be a cam chain tensioner?  I pulled the auto one and it looked okay.    I’ve also pulled the valve cover and rechecked the valves which are also in spec. 


https://youtu.be/4dDSnOicqeQ
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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 10:00:49 pm »
When you pulled the cams, and re-installed, and also pulled the tensioner, did you "retract/reset" the tensioner prior to shoving it in and bolting it down?

that's a pretty horendous sound... almost sounds like one of the cam sprocket bolts are loose, and whacking the inner surface of the tunnel the cam chain runs down thru.  or, a rocker arm, or cam adjust screw/nut is loose... any of the 3 would sound similar... grasping at straws as it isn't in front of me.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 10:05:18 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Indy C10

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2019, 12:06:52 am »
Thanks for the reply.   I did reset the chain adjuster before I put it back.  I guess I’ll be pulling the cover again and checking all the bolts inside one more time. 
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Offline Pbfoot

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 10:40:29 am »
If you didn't use blue loctite on the cam sprocket bolts they probably came loose as MOB said.
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Offline connieklr

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2019, 12:34:51 pm »
When you replaced the tensioner, did you take a thin screwdriver and push on the tensioner plunger to force its end into the guide to apply pressure on the backside of the chain - before - you reinstalled the spring and spring guide?

Sometimes the spring pressure alone isn't enough to advance the plunger from a reset all the way in to take up the chain slack.
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2019, 03:03:36 pm »
While your in there, re-check the cam timing too.

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Offline Indy C10

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2019, 03:14:30 pm »
Opened it up last night and found a nut from one of the valve adjusters had come off and the valance was completely loose.  Fortunately, the nut was sitting right behind the camshaft. Tightened it up and checked all other valves once more.  Haven’t had a chance to fire it up again yet as the battery was dead.   Trying again this afternoon.   

I did remember to picture the cam sprocket bolts!  But it did Corsa my mind before opening it up. 

I did not push the plunger in for the cam tensioner after reinstalling.  That’s a good idea.  I will try that before starting it up. 
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Offline Indy C10

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2019, 08:52:47 pm »
Problem solved!  The block off plates were leaking air and causing a ruckus of a noise.  Put the emissions plumbing back on and she purrs like a kitten now. 

Thank you to everyone who helped. 
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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2019, 09:22:02 pm »
You're welcome... just had that "funny feeling"... lost adjuster nut... ;)
and, you never mentioned block off plates, but those do matter also...
Just got into an argument yesterday about block off plates... so I won't even begin on that part. Lets just say they have to be sealed, but running a tap into the valve cover, and inserting back to back set screws with RTV, to "seal them ports off", make the "covers" simply an ornament, and not a functional "blocking point" after that.

glad you found the nut...

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Offline donaldj

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2019, 09:29:10 am »


glad you found the nut...

Me too! At my age I don’t always realize I’m lost!!! :rotflmao:

All joking aside, glad things are alright now.
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Offline connieklr

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2019, 11:10:49 am »
You're welcome... just had that "funny feeling"... lost adjuster nut... ;)
and, you never mentioned block off plates, but those do matter also...
Just got into an argument yesterday about block off plates... so I won't even begin on that part. Lets just say they have to be sealed, but running a tap into the valve cover, and inserting back to back set screws with RTV, to "seal them ports off", make the "covers" simply an ornament, and not a functional "blocking point" after that.

glad you found the nut...

"and inserting back to back set screws"

???????????

Assume you're leaving enough room for the dowels that are now only providing alignment for the cover and plug well gaskets?

Why not just use Locktite on the top set screws to seal the threads, and switch to solid dowels?
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Offline Nosmo

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2019, 01:42:29 pm »
You're welcome... just had that "funny feeling"... lost adjuster nut... ;)
and, you never mentioned block off plates, but those do matter also...
Just got into an argument yesterday about block off plates... so I won't even begin on that part. Lets just say they have to be sealed, but running a tap into the valve cover, and inserting back to back set screws with RTV, to "seal them ports off", make the "covers" simply an ornament, and not a functional "blocking point" after that.

glad you found the nut...

OK...so what is it I am not understanding about this? I installed block-off plates years ago, but all I did was remove the stock domed covers and the associated air hoses, and made some flat aluminum plates to go over the tops of the flapper valves and bolted them on.  I left the flapper valves in place.  I didn't "seal" anything, didn't have to run a tap into anything.  Bike runs great.  What did I do wrong? 
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Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2019, 01:54:53 pm »
As long as your plates create a good seal you did nothing wrong. MOBs idea of threading the opening and putting back to back set screws cuts the air passage in the valve cover and the only reason you would put the the block off plate is to cover the cavity to stop water from puddling in there.
I did the same as you with my block off plates except I think I turned the flapper valves over. I also added a small bead of Black RTV to the mating surface where the block off plates meet the valve cover.
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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2019, 08:17:06 pm »
As long as your plates create a good seal you did nothing wrong. MOBs idea of threading the opening and putting back to back set screws cuts the air passage in the valve cover and the only reason you would put the the block off plate is to cover the cavity to stop water from puddling in there.
I did the same as you with my block off plates except I think I turned the flapper valves over. I also added a small bead of Black RTV to the mating surface where the block off plates meet the valve cover.

I've seen it done a number of ways, I still have mine on and functioning. If I was to do "plates", I would also remove the reeds themselves, but leaving them in place, as they were originally installed, does no harm... turning them "over", tho, may be odd, as now any "back burps" are not sealed by the reeds (being on top now...) when they are installed as "normal" back "burps" seal the reeds..

You're welcome... just had that "funny feeling"... lost adjuster nut... ;)
and, you never mentioned block off plates, but those do matter also...
Just got into an argument yesterday about block off plates... so I won't even begin on that part. Lets just say they have to be sealed, but running a tap into the valve cover, and inserting back to back set screws with RTV, to "seal them ports off", make the "covers" simply an ornament, and not a functional "blocking point" after that.

glad you found the nut...

"and inserting back to back set screws"

???????????

Assume you're leaving enough room for the dowels that are now only providing alignment for the cover and plug well gaskets?

Why not just use Locktite on the top set screws to seal the threads, and switch to solid dowels?

I think you missed the location I was referring to. The "tap/setscrew" thing is something done in the "cavity" where the reeds originally lived, so they can be completely removed... then, the new "cover" simply seals the recess, to prevent water from collecting there. It is a quick and simple thing, when you pull the valve cover off, during a valve adjust.

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Offline connieklr

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2019, 09:11:08 pm »
As long as your plates create a good seal you did nothing wrong. MOBs idea of threading the opening and putting back to back set screws cuts the air passage in the valve cover and the only reason you would put the the block off plate is to cover the cavity to stop water from puddling in there.
I did the same as you with my block off plates except I think I turned the flapper valves over. I also added a small bead of Black RTV to the mating surface where the block off plates meet the valve cover.

I've seen it done a number of ways, I still have mine on and functioning. If I was to do "plates", I would also remove the reeds themselves, but leaving them in place, as they were originally installed, does no harm... turning them "over", tho, may be odd, as now any "back burps" are not sealed by the reeds (being on top now...) when they are installed as "normal" back "burps" seal the reeds..

You're welcome... just had that "funny feeling"... lost adjuster nut... ;)
and, you never mentioned block off plates, but those do matter also...
Just got into an argument yesterday about block off plates... so I won't even begin on that part. Lets just say they have to be sealed, but running a tap into the valve cover, and inserting back to back set screws with RTV, to "seal them ports off", make the "covers" simply an ornament, and not a functional "blocking point" after that.

glad you found the nut...

"and inserting back to back set screws"

???????????

Assume you're leaving enough room for the dowels that are now only providing alignment for the cover and plug well gaskets?

Why not just use Locktite on the top set screws to seal the threads, and switch to solid dowels?

I think you missed the location I was referring to. The "tap/setscrew" thing is something done in the "cavity" where the reeds originally lived, so they can be completely removed... then, the new "cover" simply seals the recess, to prevent water from collecting there. It is a quick and simple thing, when you pull the valve cover off, during a valve adjust.

Understand that part - that's where I tapped the holes and put in the set screws on my cover. It's the back to back set screws comment I was curious about. Where would you install the back to back set screws?

I also don't understand how you can simply turn the reeds over. As you can see in the below pix, there is no room in the reed cover.


« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 09:16:21 pm by connieklr »
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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2019, 09:41:36 pm »
I couldn't understand the "flipping the reeds over thing" myself either, but our pal (TIM... remember him?) said he did it, and didn't realize it.. and it was farting and snorting into the airbox.. I can't grasp it, but was only passing it on...
I dunno... it lloks like the plate can be flipped, and I think I did try it once, just to see if it "fit", and it appeared so..
as for the kaw Gasket for that assembly, I got some decades ago, from Ron Ayers, and they were seriously "thick", like 1/8", and I never used them...

as for the tapped holes, and setscrews, the ports in the recess are aht I referred to... but I'm thinking you were the one that told me the process originally...? no?... I dunno.. been so long since i've touched anything on any bike, my mind is jello...

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :great: :beerchug:

« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 09:58:44 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2019, 10:35:53 pm »
Does plugging the passage make any difference in anything?
ie; Is tendency to backfire during decell's improved?

NOTE: I have louder Cobra F1s mufflers on my C-10.

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Offline connieklr

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2019, 10:38:22 pm »
I couldn't understand the "flipping the reeds over thing" myself either, but our pal (TIM... remember him?) said he did it, and didn't realize it.. and it was farting and snorting into the airbox.. I can't grasp it, but was only passing it on...
I dunno... it lloks like the plate can be flipped, and I think I did try it once, just to see if it "fit", and it appeared so..
as for the kaw Gasket for that assembly, I got some decades ago, from Ron Ayers, and they were seriously "thick", like 1/8", and I never used them...

as for the tapped holes, and setscrews, the ports in the recess are aht I referred to... but I'm thinking you were the one that told me the process originally...? no?... I dunno.. been so long since i've touched anything on any bike, my mind is jello...

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :great: :beerchug:

No, it wasn't  back to back set screws in the cover, but back to back oil seals in the water pump.

:-)
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Offline connieklr

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2019, 10:53:04 pm »
Does plugging the passage make any difference in anything?
ie; Is tendency to backfire during decell's improved?

NOTE: I have louder Cobra F1s mufflers on my C-10.

Ted

My ’95 with the Delkevics have a nice throaty snap, rumble, and occasional pop when down shifting and coasting to a stop with the throttle closed. Not really objectionable; I kinda like it. I’m sure my removing all the “air injection” stuff is contributing to it.
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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2019, 04:31:45 pm »
Mine also pops on decel. with the blockoff plates.  I use it as an attention getter for the cage operators on their phones.  :motonoises:
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Offline Rod

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Re: Major Valve train noise - Chain tensioner?
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2019, 03:25:00 pm »
  Reply #19 I like that. :great: