Author Topic: Mild Surging Woes  (Read 2566 times)

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Offline Greg Habel

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Mild Surging Woes
« on: June 26, 2008, 08:27:00 am »
For the last month I've been getting more noticable mild surging/dead spots between 3,000 and 4,000 rpm.  A few weeks ago I drained the carbs, filled with 50/50 Seafoam/Gas mix, ran her both in low rpm and rev'd her a few times to get the Seafoam through both low and high speed jets.  Seemed improved after that.  Now this past weekend the surging/dead spots seem to be back; even a bit worse.  When I get on the gas there doesn't seem to be a problem; only when I am cruising along do I notice it.  I was thinking of pulling the plugs to see if I'm getting too much gas in one cylinder.  I've been putting off a carb rebuild and don't have the time till at least the fall.  Any suggestions in the meantime?  Greg  COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey)  CDA 0120  Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle".  05 Ninja 250  
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Offline Camper Dave

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Mild Surging Woes
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 09:17:00 am »
Ride at 6,000 to 10,000 rpm??  ;p    You knew someone was going to say it, I just got here first!  Dave Muir  1980 LTD1000 - Rocket  1999 Concours - Rocket II  1997 Dyna - wife's  CT-COG #3649 Merchandise Czar
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Offline Greg Habel

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Mild Surging Woes
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 03:20:00 pm »
Wise guy eh? Nuck, nuck.  Greg  COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey)  CDA 0120  Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle".  05 Ninja 250  
Greg H from Mass -  MA/ME/NH/VT co-AAD 2012+ with wife Tracey
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Offline smithr1

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Mild Surging Woes
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2008, 10:35:00 pm »
I would say you could have just busted stuff loose with the treatment and it just got clogged again.    In stead of pulling plugs just fill the petcock end of the gas line with a syringe or something till it stops filling and see if that full level drops.  It should stop if the floats seal good.  I never tried this but it sounds like it would work?  ----------------------------------  I will answer any question.  It is up to you to figure out if I should have.    <p align="left">My Photos<br
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Offline 2linby

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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2008, 11:30:00 pm »
Drain your float bowls and see what crap comes out. If you have a lot then you need to do at least the following.    1. Pull the tank, drain, pull the petcock and clean the petcock screen.    2. If you have an in line fule filter replace it.    3. Replace your fuel lines.    4. Possibly pull and clean the carbs. Reset the mixture screws, re-set the floats and of course re-sync the carbs.    Best of luck!   AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks!  Northwest Area Director  COG #5539  AMA #927779  IBA #15034  Team Oregon MC Instructor    http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby  http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip)  http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)      
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Offline Greg Habel

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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2008, 10:09:00 am »
Thank you "the Bobs".  I'll give your suggestions a try short of pulling the carbs (reserve that for the fall/winter).  I'm hoping that I can see some dirt/junk come out in the float bowl drain process; then go from there.  I road my wife's Ninja 250 this morning and then realized how rough my Connie is running in comparison.  Greg  COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey)  CDA 0120  Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle".  05 Ninja 250  
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Offline Colt45

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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2008, 04:14:00 pm »
Drain and refill the carbs with 100% Seafoam and let them soak for several hours.  It worked for mine.    
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Offline Larry650

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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2008, 07:06:00 pm »
Are you buying gas with ethanol in it? I'm seeing it a lot where I live (Jacksonville, FL) and I refuse to buy it. Maybe it could be causing the problem.  
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2004 SV650S for riding solo and on the track
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Offline PatM

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Mild Surging Woes
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2008, 03:18:00 pm »
I too got that last week while riding in the States. I'd filled up with 10% Ethanol. It has stopped doing this since I got back to Canada. No Ethanol here (yet).     Is this a coincidence or just bad gas?  :confuse:   Patrick    Ride safe.    1998 Kawasaki Concours Windsor Green    COG# 7292 CDA# 0135  
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Offline Larry650

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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2008, 03:42:00 pm »
Ethanol has less energy than gasoline and also can attract water out of the atmosphere, and can also permeate through rubber membranes in older vehicles. I had an '80's Ford truck that would not start up with it in Wisconsin back in the '90's. I had to replace the carb with a rebuilt model to solve that, but it also produced lower gas mileage.     As for the surging, if it is a carb problem, it is most like one of being slightly lean. My Connie did this and my current steed, an '02 ZZR1200 also did it to a greater degree. I researched the ZZR board and set my idle screws to 2.5 turns out and shimmed the carb needles and now it has linear power an no surge at all. I lost 2mpg (I think) from 40 to 38mpg in town. It still has 160 hp though and is easier to power on in cornsers since the power delivery is smooth.     On the Concours, assuming the carbs are sync'd ok I would drain the bowls just to make sure there is no crap in them, set the idle screws at 2 to 2.5 turns out and try it.  
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2004 SV650S for riding solo and on the track
2007 DRZ400SM for riding solo and on the track (lots of fun in 38hp)
Responsible for wrenching on all those plus my daughters' 2007 ZZR 600
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Offline Greg Habel

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Mild Surging Woes
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2008, 08:57:00 pm »
I drained the carbs and found a little bit of black specs but not much.  I flushed them with the petcock on prime to see if anything else came through but nothing more.  Now filled with 100% Seafoam for a 3 hour soak.  I doubt it's bad gas cuz I ran it down and filled it up again and still had the issues.  Thanks for all the info.  This fall/winter is defnitely time to educate myself on carb rebuilds.  I took some good photos when Rich (MOB) did the rebuilds at last years National in WV.  As usual for me things seem pretty daunting till I actually do it.  I'll let you know the result of the Seafoam soak.  Greg  COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey)  CDA 0120  Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle".  05 Ninja 250  
Greg H from Mass -  MA/ME/NH/VT co-AAD 2012+ with wife Tracey
COG# 7010,a Tracey  CDA 120 (3.0)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle"

Offline Greg Habel

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Mild Surging Woes
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2008, 12:56:00 pm »
Took it for a ride to work today but am still experiencing the issues.  For the heck of it I switched it to Prime the last 1/2 way to work.  Not sure if I noticed a difference or not but will evaluate again on the way home.  I've got some new fuel line (clear) on the way from Murphs plus I want to check the sync on the carbs to make sure they are ok.  Maybe drain the tank and take a look at the petcock.  One thing at a time though so I can determine the actual cause.  Worse case - I live with it till the carb rebuild in the winter.  Greg  COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey)  CDA 0120  Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle".  05 Ninja 250  
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Offline Larry650

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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2008, 01:21:00 pm »
Greg,   Just a quick note that carb sync, rebuild and running on prime will not affect the jetting if that is the problem. There are several threads on the old board about turning the fuel screws while the carbs are on the bike. I did it with a $5 Harbor Freight screwdriver - it was tedious and painful but helped with mine.  
2002 Kawasaki ZZR1200 for riding with the wife
2004 SV650S for riding solo and on the track
2007 DRZ400SM for riding solo and on the track (lots of fun in 38hp)
Responsible for wrenching on all those plus my daughters' 2007 ZZR 600
US Review http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ro...200/index.html
EU Review http://www.motorbikestoday.com/revie...es/ZZR1200.html

Offline Greg Habel

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Mild Surging Woes
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2008, 03:12:00 pm »
Thanks David.  Good points.  Greg  COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey)  CDA 0120  Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle".  05 Ninja 250  
Greg H from Mass -  MA/ME/NH/VT co-AAD 2012+ with wife Tracey
COG# 7010,a Tracey  CDA 120 (3.0)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle"

Offline Greg Habel

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Mild Surging Woes
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2008, 08:38:00 pm »
Ok, I took a look at the carb sync but found they were good both at idle and up to 5k (as much as I wanted to rev it).  I changed the spark plugs (forgot to do that this past winter).    Testing on the ride to work tomorrow.  Edit - forgot to mention that the plugs looked healthy.  I almost expected to see one fouled.    Greg  COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey)  CDA 0120  Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle".  05 Ninja 250    
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 08:38:00 pm by habelsgtb »
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Offline 2linby

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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2008, 09:41:00 pm »
Based on your last post I'd say a carb pulling is in your future. Sorry man but it sounds like you have crud in one or more of your jets.  AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks!  Northwest Area Director  COG #5539  AMA #927779  IBA #15034  Team Oregon MC Instructor    http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby  http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip)  http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)      
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Offline Greg Habel

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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2008, 08:04:00 am »
Test road it to work today.  No change.  Ugh!  Bob P - I think you are right - pulling the carbs is in order.  I should be able to tolerate it till most of my riding season is over.  Alternatively my BIL has a spare set of carbs that I could rebuild, adjust the screws, etc.  Time, that's all I need, time.    Greg  COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey)  CDA 0120  Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle".  05 Ninja 250  
Greg H from Mass -  MA/ME/NH/VT co-AAD 2012+ with wife Tracey
COG# 7010,a Tracey  CDA 120 (3.0)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle"