Author Topic: Need some BIG brake help!  (Read 1052 times)

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Offline Eric

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Need some BIG brake help!
« on: May 28, 2019, 04:47:26 am »
Hey everybody as some of you may know i bought some of those brackets from the guy in Australia that allow me mount certain nissin brakes to my stock 92 Connie forks and rotors. Everything finally arrived and we rebuilt the calipers with a rebuild kit from a company called all balls racing seemed like decent quality pit everything back together and mounted it up and the pads drug against the wheel to where it only 1/2-3/4 of a turn. So we took the calipers off and the pistons had some pitting on them so hit them with a scotch brite pad and polished up with some 2500 grit sand paper look super shiny and just a ever so slight amount pitting so i thought this had to work out everything back on and the brakes still drag but could get roughly a full turn out of the good pull on the wheel. So now I’m so completely stumped on what else this could be, I’ve checked to make sure wheel itself isn’t hung spins freely with no calipers on, changed the pad pins, switched from super dot 4 to dot 4. What else could it be? Pads are from a brand called bike master? We’re cheap but seem alright, are the pads too thick? Does just a little bit of pitting on the calipers pistons really stop them from retracting? Need a Connie miracle!!

Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 04:49:49 am »
Brakes are off of a 2003 cbr600rr if that helps any, and after driving for a little bit my inflated sensor had the rotors at 102~ degrees? Not sure what there suppose to be

Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 04:50:44 am »
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Online Bud

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 09:33:09 am »
When you have the pistons out, you have to remove the seal in the bore and clean the groove the seal sits in.  Get a brass rotary brush for a dremel and thoroughly clean ALL the corrosion out of that groove.  With the crap in the groove, the seal isn't sitting as low in the groove as it should be if it were clean.
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Offline m in sc

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 10:06:45 am »
whats condition of the master cylinder? if the tiny return hole is blocked, it wont pull fluid back in from the calipers and they can/will drag.  i can only assume that when the new calipers were put on, it rotated OK, but started to drag after the lever was pulled? If so, look at master.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2019, 03:35:26 pm »
Eric, after re-doing the pistons, does the wheel turn freely now?
        Is it possible that the caliper is dragging the OD of the rotor?
           {When I first installed mine, that was happening}.

To check, look for wear on the OD of the rotor, and/or loosen the bolts to allow the caliper to move out a bit.

Next, when you bled the brakes; did you get all the air out?
                                                how far were the pads from the rotor prior to pumping them?
                                                do they seem to move freely?
                                                does the caliper seem to be centered on the Rotor?

I don't know how far you rode, but 102*f after a ride doesn't seem particularly hot...
Stopping the bike generates a lot of heat that is retained at the Rotor.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 12:27:22 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2019, 05:22:33 pm »
Hey thanks for all the responses I’ll check the master cylinder for sure and clean the grooves where the seals go again, connie_rider, do you mean the outer rim of the rotor where there hasn’t been any pad? And if so what’s the best way to go about fixing that? We did do a nice thorough bleed so i don’t think it’s that

Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2019, 05:40:04 pm »
The pistons are fully compressed in when i put them on just because when we rebuilt them we put the pads on after so they were maxed out so it did spin freely but after a bleed is when they drag. From what i can tell the look centered on the rotor the pistons are all out roughly the same

Offline m in sc

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2019, 06:40:50 pm »
if they spun free on assembly its one of 2 things that have been mentioned. 1: crap behind square piston seals causing too much resistance to let the pistons retract or 2: the return hole i mentioned.

easy test, crack the bleeders real quick open, and then tighten them back up. if it then spins free, its the master. if that doesnt do it, then its the piston seals (grooves).  .02

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2019, 06:57:49 pm »
Hey thanks for all the responses I’ll check the master cylinder for sure and clean the grooves where the seals go again, connie_rider, do you mean the outer rim of the rotor where there hasn’t been any pad? And if so what’s the best way to go about fixing that? We did do a nice thorough bleed so i don’t think it’s that

Yes, I'm referring to the outside diameter of the rotor.
Also look for wear elsewhere in the normally non contact areas on the rotor..

To confirm it is not an alignment problem, loosen the 2 bolts that hold the caliper on and see if the wheel spins freely.

Is the same thing happening on both sides?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2019, 09:42:25 pm »
Awesome I’ll try these things everybody and I’ll eat you guys know

Offline Chuck Landis

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2019, 11:00:52 pm »
From what your describing seem normal to me. From what I understand the runout of the rotors pushes the pistons back they are not spring loaded. someone correct me if I'm wrong. After a pad change mine react the same as yours. Mine is all stock.

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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2019, 11:38:56 pm »
Eric, are the brackets you got for standard Nissin calipers or for radial calipers? A picture of them would be helpful. If they are the radial caliper brackets you may need to shim them outward in case they are rubbing the inside of the caliper.  If they are the standard caliper mounts try this trick. Get the front wheel in the air. Loosen the front caliper bolts. Bungee cord the front brake lever to the grip. Then look at the caliper bracket and see if there is any gaps. I have had to put small shims in these type before also. Like I mentioned a picture of your setup would really help.
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Offline m in sc

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2019, 01:23:24 am »
Brakes are off of a 2003 cbr600rr if that helps any

not radial. did you try cracking the bleeder screws? btw, even if they arent 100% centered, they will be ok. also, if it was the caliper bracket, they wouldnt have spun free when initially bolted on. issue happens after you hit the lever. the pads arent releasing. this is what im reading.

Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2019, 01:27:25 am »
Out of town at the moment but will try that test here in a few days cracking the screws and seeing what happens, yeah they are the regular nissan 4 pots will get some pics up in a bit. I will try loosening the mounting bolts as well.

Offline Freddy

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2019, 04:37:19 am »
Some good advice there Eric.  Question:  Is the situation you have now somewhat better or worse than before you o/hauled the calipers - or just the same?


If much the same as before do as Jim suggests and check the axial (standard) mount calipers for a gap where a shim may be needed.
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Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2019, 05:57:29 am »
Yeah I'll check for a gap in the mounting areas heres some pics
Left Side:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TQrm5LoUofWQf1qQfDNLxt3xUyIPzKuW

Right Side
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cln6Z6BueEAJ_EeQguDkR7dZtFljHaEC

Hope these help

Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2019, 10:21:26 am »
Hard to tell from the pictures but on the braking surface of the rotor near the largest diameter is that ridge raised where the old caliper/pad didn't wear the rotor and now the new pad setup grabbing on that ridge?
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2019, 12:38:38 pm »
I'll start with; originally, I thought this was radial style calipers. {Oops}  :-[
                     That is a very neat/impressive installation.
                     Photo's helped a lot.

At this stage, please answer the questions and try the suggestions we made earlier and report your findings.
From that, we can assist you more.

I'm still a little confused about your problem.
  The wheel will not spin free with the calipers installed on any bike. {as there is always a little drag}
       A little drag is normal and the rotor will always retain some heat.

  Are you saying yours will not rotate at all, or are you saying you have excessive drag?
     ie; Is the bike difficult to move?

Ride safe, Ted                   
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2019, 02:47:20 pm »
Sounds pretty normal.  I can never freely  spin my front wheel after installing new pads....I have to go ride first...Maybe you should go ride it a bit. If you are on a level road doing about 30mph and you pull in the clutch and coast the bike  do  you feel the  front brakes slowing you down?   I like were you said the rotor temp was 102 degrees.  That is  the temperature of the air everyday here in Florida.. When the rotors turn orange and red is when they are hot.. Around 102 degrees here  is  the temperature of  the top of the seat before we get on the bike.
Those pads... did you buy Sintered Pads?.. that is what you want..
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 02:52:19 pm by Daytona_Mike »
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Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2019, 04:48:44 pm »
Sounds pretty normal.  I can never freely  spin my front wheel after installing new pads....I have to go ride first...Maybe you should go ride it a bit. If you are on a level road doing about 30mph and you pull in the clutch and coast the bike  do  you feel the  front brakes slowing you down?   I like were you said the rotor temp was 102 degrees.  That is  the temperature of the air everyday here in Florida.. When the rotors turn orange and red is when they are hot.. Around 102 degrees here  is  the temperature of  the top of the seat before we get on the bike.
Those pads... did you buy Sintered Pads?.. that is what you want..

Yeah I thought about sintered pads and probably should have bought those but i only get maybe 3/4 of turn when the wheel up in the air? The pads are brand new so if the wheel not being able to spin much is okay then i guess thats my problem, it doesn't feel like there is drag when i ride either

Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2019, 04:50:21 pm »
I'll start with; originally, I thought this was radial style calipers. {Oops}  :-[
                     That is a very neat/impressive installation.
                     Photo's helped a lot.

At this stage, please answer the questions and try the suggestions we made earlier and report your findings.
From that, we can assist you more.

I'm still a little confused about your problem.
  The wheel will not spin free with the calipers installed on any bike. {as there is always a little drag}
       A little drag is normal and the rotor will always retain some heat.

  Are you saying yours will not rotate at all, or are you saying you have excessive drag?
     ie; Is the bike difficult to move?

Ride safe, Ted                   
Doing both of the tests did not really change much, loosening the mounting bolts or cracking the bleeder screws still only 3/4 of turn, so either just need to break in the new pads or pistons maybe not retracting enough?

Offline WillyP

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2019, 06:06:35 pm »
Or the calipers are not centered on the disc. Or the disc is warped.

When you say you can only turn 3/4 turn, how much force are you applying?

When you opened the bleeders, did you use some tool to seperate the pads from the disc? Did any fluid come out?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 06:09:46 pm by WillyP »
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Offline m in sc

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2019, 06:10:04 pm »
yeah, if you are looking for 'free spinning' after brakes are applied, it wont do that. you're probably ok.  I read it as 'NO ROTATION" beyond 3/4 turn, like it locked down.

good advice from daytona mike. id test it out *carefully* on a ride. .

Offline Eric

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Re: Need some BIG brake help!
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2019, 07:38:13 pm »
Or the calipers are not centered on the disc. Or the disc is warped.

When you say you can only turn 3/4 turn, how much force are you applying?

When you opened the bleeders, did you use some tool to seperate the pads from the disc? Did any fluid come out?
No I did not, should i do that after the bleeders are open and should i keep the bleeders open? Like a really good pull for 3/4 of a turn.