Author Topic: Ninja Edition project  (Read 1216 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online m in sc

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2019, 07:17:39 pm »
you had a 3 into one on an H2 with a supertrapp? thats just sacrilege on so many levels.  >:(


Online MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 9578
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2019, 10:06:12 pm »
you had a 3 into one on an H2 with a supertrapp? thats just sacrilege on so many levels.  >:(

in my mind, I could never see that ever working at all...  ::) ::) :-X

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2019, 10:23:07 pm »
MOB, I knew Supertrapp had bought out Kerker. Jardine too? Another reason to avoid Supertrapp, they apparently have gotten popular with the Harley Davidson crowd.

m in sc, I didn't have the triple, my brother did. That thing was crazy fast back in those days, until the middle piston let go. I never liked the narrow power range of 2 cycle engines.

I figured out how to make new fairing mounts with some sturdy tubing (that stumbling block had me stumped for a while). I also needed to get some bits and pieces of flat stock to make my offset brackets, so I run to town. While in town, I got the wideband bung welded onto the Kerker mid pipe. I had prepped the pipe by drilling a hole and then I shaped one end of the bung with a Dremel tool to fit the curve of the pipe perfectly. The shop that welded it didn't even charge me. He said all the hard work was done and it only took him a minute to weld it. Cool.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Online m in sc

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2019, 10:27:16 am »
um.. the wideband needs to be in the actual exhaust flow to read correctly.

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2019, 11:53:44 am »
Good point. Yes, the tip of the wideband sensor barely sticks out into the exhaust flow. The wideband sensor a bit longer than a typical narrow band O2 sensor. The bung I used was included in the kit and is the correct length for the sensor. According to the instructions: "A 1" bung (provided in the kit) will best protect the sensor."

I got the bright idea to leave the radiator stay as is and see if things will work. I made the upper off-set brackets and trial fitted them using the current 2 inch gap at the top. But, configured like that the radiator won't fit right and the top hose would need to be longer. Somehow, I need to close the gap down to 1 inch to match the bottom mount. This will not be easy and there is no guarantee the radiator will fit. I'm entirely within the realm of trial and error at this point. But, I'm very persistent (some say stubborn), so I'll keep plugging away at it.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 12:14:30 pm by batboy »
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Online m in sc

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2019, 12:58:25 pm »
what i mean is, theres no real consistent flow across the crossover. it should be right at the final collector. look where factories put them. .02

*edit. i thought it was the crossover. never mind.  :-[
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 01:42:17 pm by m in sc »

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2019, 01:55:50 pm »
Ok, I see what you mean now. If you're talking about a crossover pipe like the stock exhaust has, then I agree with you. The stocker is a 4 into 2 system with a crossover pipe connecting the two sides. However, with this exhaust system I'm installing, the pipe under the bike is technically not a crossover, it's half of the exhaust flow of the 4-2-1 header, so the sensor is basically downstream of the final 2 into 1 collector. I've seen wide bands put in locations I would not have picked. Sometimes it's a compromise. I picked the mid pipe for convenience's sake and there was not many other places that the back part of the sensor and wire would have enough room. Besides, a wide band on a carbureted engine is not going to be nearly as accurate as EFI. I'll be happy to just get a reasonable ballpark number. Like is it pig rich or is it "about" right or is it dangerously lean? If you get dynoed, they clamp the wide band sensor onto the end of the tailpipe. That's certainly less than ideal in my humble opinion.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2019, 05:36:02 pm »
I did some grinding and tweaking here and there on the radiator stay with some success. I moved the bottom in from 1" to 3/4" of a gap and moved the top in closer from 2-1/4" to 1.5". The radiator fits in there, but I might need to do some minor trimming of the main front fairing (almost unnoticeable). I'm not sure the upper hose will be long enough. I'll need to check clearance of the fender too.

I took a photo of the top offset bracket. I decided to keep it real simple. I cut the pieces out and took a grinder to it. Then, I found some leftover flat black spray paint and I shot a couple coats. Looks like I handled it before it was completely dry. This is all a trial mock up. I'll shoot another coat of paint on them before final assembly. Next up, I still have to make the lower offset brackets.

Please note, this will probably be my last update for the next 2-3 days. I'll be off the grid (camping).
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2019, 12:07:00 am »
I'm back home and put in a good day's work today. Got the bottom offset radiator stay brackets made and did a little fairing trimming. The radiator and oil cooler are officially bolted on. I ended up moving the stay forward 1.5" at the top and 0.75" at the bottom. Well, it took some head scratching and work, but I have the ZX1000A headers installed. Next up, I need to see if the radiator hoses are going to reach.

I tried thinking outside the box on this one. Others modified the part to fit the bike. I modified the bike to fit the part. I ordered a Delkevic 14" carbon fiber muffler. Should be here in a few days. I should have it back together by then.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Online m in sc

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2019, 11:45:36 am »
very cool. :beerchug:

hows the fan to header clearance? 

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2019, 08:18:37 pm »
The fan is packed in there tight, but has nearly a half inch clearance on the inner header tubes. The exhaust tube underneath touched one corner of a cooling fin, so I did a little tweaking there. Got the mid pipe back on.

The outer header pipes each touch the stay in one spot. I'm thinking of putting some heat wrap at those places to prevent heat conduction to the stay and then to the radiator and oil cooler. Since the header already is a little rusty, I was tempted to use header wrap for all of the header pipes. But, that wrap is bad for the headers. It weakens the metal due to extreme heat cycling and the wrap traps moisture which rusts the headers.

I'm currently working on relocating the coolant reservoir. I'm in the process of making mounting brackets. It would probably be fine with some stick-on Velcro and zip ties, but I wanted to mount it securely under the seat. At least the radiator hoses still  fit. It  was hard to get at the upper hose, it's tucked up in the front fairing.

Coolant? I have Peak green without silicates. From reading a bunch of coolant threads, there seems to be a lot of differing opinions on the subject of coolant. The old coolant was green, so I wanted to stay with green. I can't use the coolant cocktail because it gets below zero here in the winter (and triple digits in the summer).
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Online m in sc

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2019, 09:33:54 pm »
just ding the headers?. its been dyno proven you can get away with surprisingly big dents and not affect anything. id imagine it will buzz or make noise at rpm, which would drive me nuts.  .02

Online MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 9578
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2019, 10:45:23 pm »
have you fully compressed the forks, and measured the real clearance between the fender and radiator, while turning the forks side to side, thru the range of movement?

The look of that radiator in the last pic, doesn't look like that was a "happy radiator"..to start with... it may just look wonky, but the pic made me ask..
(with the bike on the center stand, and a block under the engine, removing the fork caps, and springs temporarily will allow you to easily see the full stroke movement, and where that fender will end up).. just mentioning, I'd hate to hear after all this you fond that to be another issue...
as for the fans; we've seen enough melted ones to know you need "space" there... those blades melt fast prior to the fans coming on..

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline crag antler

  • Mini Bike
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8277
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2019, 12:47:59 am »
Have you thought of ceramic coating for the headers? Did my replacement header and it’s supposed to reduce heat by 60%.
Just have gotten my bike running well enough to tell. :??:
https://www.jet-hot.com/
Doug aka crag antler
00 Kawasaki Concours 60,000+ miles. Bar risers, Murphs kneesavers, blockoff plates, allen head screw set,headlight upgrade. LED headlight, driving lights, JC Whitney trunk, Go Pro mount,’06 header w/Jet-Hot ceramic coating, over flow tubes and Performance Exhaust Sprocket by SISF

Offline Bud

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1712
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12907
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2019, 03:08:11 pm »
Have you thought of ceramic coating for the headers? Did my replacement header and it’s supposed to reduce heat by 60%.
Just have gotten my bike running well enough to tell. :??:
https://www.jet-hot.com/
What's that cost?
2005 Kawasaki Concours
2001 Kawasaki Concours
1982 Suzuki GS1100GK
1983 Honda GL650I SilverWing

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2019, 03:19:13 pm »
Lots of good questions and legit concerns.

As for the two outer head pipes touching the radiator stay, everything is mounted rock solid. I'm confident it would rub or move, but then again, I'm in uncharted territory, so who knows what  vibrations can do? But, I decided to pad the area with some type of heat shield or wrap. Still thinking about it. The header wrap is the easiest and cheapest route. That would protect and insulate the radiator from the heat of the head pipes.

While I did not "fully" compress the front forks, I did test it this way. The forks had some dust on them from riding the bike, the forks moving up and down had left a clearly visible clean area that indicates the range of movement. I used ratcheting straps to compress to the max travel point. There was almost two inches of clearance left. The forks are sitting at an angle, so they would have to compress a lot more before it even came close to touching. I didn't want to compress the forks all the way and risk blowing out a seal or something. I doubt you would have the bars turned much while riding under conditions that would result in max compression. But, I went out and turned the bars to see if the fender gets noticeable closer. I saw nothing of concern.

I did a little sanding on the header and tried to paint it with rattle can spray paint, but you know how that goes. I even used VHT Flame Proof header paint supposedly good for up to 2,000 degrees (silica and ceramic coating). From all the handling and trial fitting, about half the coating has rubbed off. I can put another coat on of course. But, to do it  right, I'd need a real ceramic coating which nobody local does.

I am a bit concerned about added heat. It seems prudent to do something. I have to think about this a bit. If I consider the headers to be expendable and plan to return to the stock exhaust in a couple of years, I could use the header wrap. Otherwise, I would need to send it in somewhere for a proper job ($$$).
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Online m in sc

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2019, 04:59:48 pm »
just relieve them, whats the issue there? break out the ball peen and ding it. they will rub, make no doubt unless you do.  also, you need to cure VHT with heat to work well. when i did my 6-into-1 for a car project, i left it out in the august, south carolina sunlight for days, it helped, but after i heat cycled it in the car for a few days, its been good for 5+ years.

as far as the fan, i made heat shields for my 2 inner header pipes, used the stainless wire ties to hold them on.  been good for almost 2 years, and im running an all 'plastic' aftermarket spal fan.


Offline crag antler

  • Mini Bike
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8277
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2019, 06:09:34 pm »
Have you thought of ceramic coating for the headers? Did my replacement header and it’s supposed to reduce heat by 60%.
Just have gotten my bike running well enough to tell. :??:
https://www.jet-hot.com/
What's that cost?
$160 per 2 in 1 so $320 total.
Doug aka crag antler
00 Kawasaki Concours 60,000+ miles. Bar risers, Murphs kneesavers, blockoff plates, allen head screw set,headlight upgrade. LED headlight, driving lights, JC Whitney trunk, Go Pro mount,’06 header w/Jet-Hot ceramic coating, over flow tubes and Performance Exhaust Sprocket by SISF

Offline Jim Snyder

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1520
  • Oops, my Connie turned into an FJR !!!
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 7055
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2019, 07:19:08 pm »
After I finished the final prototype of my 4 into 1 header I had the whole thing ceramic coated for $100. It significantly reduced the heat.
"Some days you're the windshield, and some days you're the bug" Get used to it cause thats life !!!

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2019, 01:24:53 am »
Real life took over for a few days. But, I'm back now. I took headers back off and spray painted them in order to finish off the rest of my header paint. I compromised by wrapping the header tubes in the front with DEI Titanium heat wrap. This is supposed to be better than the standard fiberglass header wrap. I felt that I needed to do something to lower temps since the tubes were so close to the radiator. I had the header mocked up using the old exhaust sealing rings or whatever they're called. New gaskets were put in and then the partially wrapped header was reinstalled. I put the radiator and oil cooler back on. I'll take a photo of my progress tomorrow morning. My new Delkevic carbon fiber muffler was delivered the other day. Can't wait to hear what the exhaust sounds like. I should be done with this exhausting work by Friday.  ;D
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2019, 05:43:35 pm »
I have gotten some work done on the bike, an hour or two here and there. I have it back together and it runs, Sounds great too, a lower growl that is not too loud at low speeds and idle, but sounds mean and gets louder as you twist the throttle. I have a couple issues to resolve with the cooling system. First, there seems to still be a lot of air in the coolant. I'm still burping it. Second, the fan don't come on. It did before I took it apart. Yes, I connected the wires. The fan connector only goes together one way, but the temp sensor has two wires that you can mix up. But, I don't think it matter which way they go. Besides, the  temp gauge is working. I can flick the fan blade with a finger and it freely spins, so it's not in a bind or froze up. Looks like I need to research how to troubleshoot the fan.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline strum

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12307
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2019, 06:14:11 pm »
I have gotten some work done on the bike, an hour or two here and there. I have it back together and it runs, Sounds great too, a lower growl that is not too loud at low speeds and idle, but sounds mean and gets louder as you twist the throttle. I have a couple issues to resolve with the cooling system. First, there seems to still be a lot of air in the coolant. I'm still burping it. Second, the fan don't come on. It did before I took it apart. Yes, I connected the wires. The fan connector only goes together one way, but the temp sensor has two wires that you can mix up. But, I don't think it matter which way they go. Besides, the  temp gauge is working. I can flick the fan blade with a finger and it freely spins, so it's not in a bind or froze up. Looks like I need to research how to troubleshoot the fan.

not sure but if you got air in there it may not be reading the temp correct thus the fan not coming on.
2016 C-14

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2019, 06:17:58 pm »
Yes, after reading a couple threads about having air in the coolant system, I believe you're right. I found a MOB post where he said to connect the temp switch wires with a jumper and the fan will have power. Sure enough, the fan works. Back to burping the coolant. Oh yeah, the fuse is okay, that was the first thing I checked.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Online MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 9578
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2019, 07:31:35 pm »
To remove the air in the system, with the bike OFF, remove the radiator cap, then with a rag in hand to catch spillage, loosen the bolt shown on the waterpump picture below, noted by the LEFT arrow in the picture below, any air, followed by some coolant, will burp out... snug the bolt back up and move to the thermostat housing now....
Attach a hose to the bleeder nipple on the right hand side, (see second photo below, that has an arrow pointing to the temp sensor switch) and with the cap still off the radiator, run the hose back into the filler neck. Turn the bike on and start it, keeping an eye on the radiator, so it doesn't slorp coolant, and quickly break the bleeder nipple, and allow the coolant from the thermo housing to burp, and flow back to the radiator thru the bleeder hose... shut the bike off, and cap the radiator...

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline batboy

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 302
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12983
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Ninja Edition project
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2019, 08:39:34 pm »
Thanks, I'll give that a try.

Looks like I promised a photo that I never posted. Here's the headers all wrapped. The only reason I did this was to lower the amount of radiant heat from those head pipes. That works quite well. Ultimately, wrapping the header will reduce the lifespan of the steel via rust and metal fatigue. I have to now consider the header as being expendable.

I have a photo of the coolant tank relocate under the seat, but that's been done and posted many times. I got the wideband installed and operational. Seems a tad lean. Maybe so with the ZX1000 cam and header. I have a set of 36mm carbs that once installed should fatten up the fuel a little.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications