Author Topic: Oil cooler - Update - Couple new questions  (Read 1108 times)

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Offline 1965soda

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Oil cooler - Update - Couple new questions
« on: February 28, 2015, 10:26:21 pm »
Hoping to tap into the wealth of C10 knowledge here.

I am tracking down a couple of leaks on my 1986 ZX900A3 Ninja.  Found the neutral switch is seeping (and not working consistently), the seal for the balance shaft is also seeping, and the oil cooler is leaking at/around one of the fittings.

When my son and I did the original refurbish/resto on this bike, we found both fittings on the original cooler were cracked.  I looked high and low for a nice used replacement and did not have any luck.  I then found a clean C10 cooler and with a couple of minor changes, was able to get it to fit.  Unfortunately, it has also started leaking.  I removed the fairings and pulled the cooler last night.  Cleaned up the oil and dirt and looked it over pretty well.  The fittings look fine (using a magnifying glass) but it is clearly leaking from that area.  I suspect the connection from the line to the cooler fitting is where it is leaking...but am almost petrified to try and tighten it. 

I brought it to a radiator shop this morning to have it looked over.  The shop owner said those coolers are made with very light material and understood they are assembled in an oven when made.  As a result, if the leak is in the main part of the cooler, he would not likely be able to fix it.  He said if the leak is at the fitting or just above it (where it attaches to what would be considered the side tank on a radiator), he may be able to repair...but could not promise anything.  He is going to test it to locate the leak and should know on Monday if anything can be done.  He asked me if I had considered using an aftermarket cooler....which I had not (trying to keep it as original as possible).  However, as I thought about it, I would sure like to not have to futz with the cooler any more.

Sorry about the long lead-in....has anyone fitted an aftermarket cooler to their C10?  If so, any details would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks as always!   
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 02:48:09 pm by 1965soda »
Currently in garage: 2011 C14, 2007 FZ1, 2001 M900 S4, 1983 900 Seca, 2003 ZRX1200, 1982 650 Seca, 8? Husq 430
Rides of the past: 2002 ZRX1200, 1986 900 Ninja, 1999 Ducati 900ss, 2002 R6, 2005 FJR, 1998 C10, 1998 VTR1000, 1989 1100 Katana, 1983 CB1100F, 1985 900 Ninja, 1983 900 Seca, 1982 Seca turbo, 1982 CX500 turbo, 1982 750 Seca, 1983 550 Vision, 1974 CB400F, mid 70's Rupp :-)

Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Oil cooler - Anyone using an aftermarket?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2015, 10:48:45 pm »
A few folks have removed the oil cooler with no apparent ill effects. Not something I would recommend if living in the SW.

Dunno iff'n that carries over to the 900, but I don't see why not.
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: Oil cooler - Anyone using an aftermarket?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2015, 11:58:02 pm »
tho i have not finished my project, i have removed the oil cooler and use it for an oil scavenger pump for my turbo.
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Offline 1965soda

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Re: Oil cooler - Anyone using an aftermarket?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2015, 12:41:05 am »
Thanks Steve and Turbo.

Steve: I think removing it would work fine. The engine cases are the same and many of the parts are interchangeable between the two machines.  Although I am in the upper-midwest and would probably be fine without it (bike does not get ridden much), hopefully I can figure out a way to keep one in place.

Turbo: When my son and I first got the bike and we were determining what needed to be done, I was having my son make a list of maintenance items as well as parts we would need.  He wrote "turbo" and "nitrous" on the list. :-)  He was sort of joking....the bike was just in too nice of condition to not try and keep it original.  Fun to think about though....

Thanks for any additional ideas or suggestions.
Currently in garage: 2011 C14, 2007 FZ1, 2001 M900 S4, 1983 900 Seca, 2003 ZRX1200, 1982 650 Seca, 8? Husq 430
Rides of the past: 2002 ZRX1200, 1986 900 Ninja, 1999 Ducati 900ss, 2002 R6, 2005 FJR, 1998 C10, 1998 VTR1000, 1989 1100 Katana, 1983 CB1100F, 1985 900 Ninja, 1983 900 Seca, 1982 Seca turbo, 1982 CX500 turbo, 1982 750 Seca, 1983 550 Vision, 1974 CB400F, mid 70's Rupp :-)

Offline 1965soda

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Re: Oil cooler - Anyone using an aftermarket?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 02:47:40 pm »
Oil cooler update.

Radiator shop tested the cooler cold and also after heating in an oven and could not locate a leak in the cooler or fittings.  So great news. 

Appears the leak is where the lines attach....crush washers or not enough torque.  I am going to pick up new crush washers before putting back into the bike.  Looks like the originals are aluminum and the FSM says torque is 18ft-lb or 25N-M.  Couple questions;

-Would brass or copper crush washers work better?
-25N-M seems like a lot for the easy to split fitting.  Any recommendations....go with the book...go with less?

Thanks as always!
Currently in garage: 2011 C14, 2007 FZ1, 2001 M900 S4, 1983 900 Seca, 2003 ZRX1200, 1982 650 Seca, 8? Husq 430
Rides of the past: 2002 ZRX1200, 1986 900 Ninja, 1999 Ducati 900ss, 2002 R6, 2005 FJR, 1998 C10, 1998 VTR1000, 1989 1100 Katana, 1983 CB1100F, 1985 900 Ninja, 1983 900 Seca, 1982 Seca turbo, 1982 CX500 turbo, 1982 750 Seca, 1983 550 Vision, 1974 CB400F, mid 70's Rupp :-)

Offline Pbfoot

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Re: Oil cooler - Update - Couple new questions
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2015, 03:19:58 pm »
New washers and a few a** pounds should be fine. Overtightening will do more harm. Not a big fan of torque wrenches and aluminum.
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Offline WillyP

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Re: Oil cooler - Update - Couple new questions
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 07:34:56 pm »
If a banjo is tight and still leaking it is very tempting to just tighten it more, don't do it. Probably the sealing washers are all flattened out and need to be replaced.

If you can't find them locally, McMaster-Carr has a good assortment listed and ships fast.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 07:38:14 pm by WillyP »
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Offline 1965soda

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Re: Oil cooler - Update - Couple new questions
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2015, 05:24:07 pm »
Wanted to provide a conclusion to this topic....in the event someone else encounters similar problems. 

I was able to source some copper sealing washers to use in place of the original aluminum washers.  As WillyP suspected, some of the original washers were not 100%.  Upon close inspection, I also found the fitting on the end of the line that was seeping, had some imperfections on the sealing surfaces as well.  Spent some time with a flat file and carefully filed the line fittings and the washers before refitting it all to the bike.  Even the brand new washers were not terribly flat.  I was very careful when tightening the banjo bolts and stopped short of the recommended torque value (I torqued to 21-22n-m).   

I have not ridden the bike much, but enough that if there was a leak it would have made itself known.  So far...success!

I think I have the problem solved....thanks for the advice everyone!
Currently in garage: 2011 C14, 2007 FZ1, 2001 M900 S4, 1983 900 Seca, 2003 ZRX1200, 1982 650 Seca, 8? Husq 430
Rides of the past: 2002 ZRX1200, 1986 900 Ninja, 1999 Ducati 900ss, 2002 R6, 2005 FJR, 1998 C10, 1998 VTR1000, 1989 1100 Katana, 1983 CB1100F, 1985 900 Ninja, 1983 900 Seca, 1982 Seca turbo, 1982 CX500 turbo, 1982 750 Seca, 1983 550 Vision, 1974 CB400F, mid 70's Rupp :-)