Author Topic: One time starting problem  (Read 360 times)

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Offline Bob_C_CT

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One time starting problem
« on: September 05, 2017, 01:27:20 pm »
I was out on a ride yesterday. After a stop, turned key on, hit starter button and nothing. I was in neutral with sidestand down, neutral light was on. Put kickstand up, pulled in clutch lever, while still in neutral, nothing. Tried key on and off a couple of times, nothing. Gage and running lights on. I gave the kill switch a couple of on/off toggles, nothing.

Gave the throttle side handlebar switch housing a smack with my palm, hit the starter button and the starter turned over and the bike fired up. Got home and couldn't duplicate the problem.

I am always using the kill switch to shut bike off (probably a bad habit)  so I'm thinking either that switch or the starter switch itself must have a loose/corroded contact.

I will be taking the housing apart in the next couple of days to get to those switches and examine/clean up the contacts. I hope I see some corrosion as I probably wont be able to get it to duplicate the problem before I take the switches apart.

I will check/clean starter relay connections.
Because I didn't loose lights when hitting starter button I believe battery connections are good. I replaced the battery and cleaned connections this past spring.

I'm thinking of wrapping the throttle cables in place with some electrical tape as I remove the housing. I think I recall how much of a bear it was to get them in place.

Any tricks or hints on the switch removal/cleaning or any other root cause ideas will be appreciated.
I will spray the sidestand switch as a preventative action but with the clutch lever pulled in/sidestand up/ bike in neutral, I think I can rule that switch out.

I did notice I have a crack in the throttle tube where it meets the handlebar switch housing (the plastic chrome flange area) that I have to get a better look at to see the extent of the crack.
97 C10,ZRX Front, Meanie Rear

Offline Mettler1

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Re: One time starting problem
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 05:43:08 pm »
  Sometimes the starter button contacts gets dirty. I got into mine and cleaned the contacts and has worked fine since. You wanna be careful as there is some tiny springs and such. You know the kind that goes to a different dimension!! I have even seen some reappear out of another dimension. ::)  If it is your starter button and you screw it up :-[ you can buy a replacement here.


                        https://www.ebay.com/sch/Electrical-Ignition/179853/i.html?Make=Kawasaki&_from=R40&_nkw=kawasaki+zg1000&_vxp=mtr
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 05:48:23 pm by Mettler1 »
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: One time starting problem
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 08:02:23 pm »
I also suspect starter switch/button contacts.

(I think I recall) MOB recently posted a way to clean them.
Hopefully someone  can find his note??

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: One time starting problem
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 09:36:11 pm »
Yep
The contacts, the bronze hat shaped contact, both ends of the spring, and the solder blob that is the other contact inside the switch all need to be lightly scrubbed with some sand paper.. the assembly is held in place by a plastic "cliplike" inner cap, that you carefully pry apart with a small screwdriver to release the "clips" that hold it in place.. be very careful, don't break the clips, and use caution not to allow it all to spring apart as it is spring loaded... I also suggest covering that complete sides open area of the fairing with a towel, to prevent loss of parts "down into the hole"...

I'll add that even tho you can't see any corrosion, a resistive layer has built up, preventing contact,.just like on all the "clean looking battery terminals" everyone insists are clean.. until they actually clean them abrasively, and the problem is cured....

The same type of button exists for the horn also, and at some point needs a scrub to make it work to.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 09:39:20 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: One time starting problem
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2017, 01:40:55 am »
Thanks all especially MOB. I will give it a cleaning tomorrow night.
97 C10,ZRX Front, Meanie Rear

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: One time starting problem
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2017, 03:06:46 am »
 :great: :great:

Just mind that spring....boinggg... :rotflmao:

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Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: One time starting problem
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 04:54:48 pm »
Here is some instructions and insight to cleaning the starter button.
The On/Off (Kill) switch was more involved and has the 2 springs and small ball bearing that can get lost easier.
I will do a writeup on that switch also.

Disclaimer: I didn’t disconnect battery but had the ignition switch in the off position. I don’t think there is constant power to the starter/kill switch housing but I take no responsibility if you don’t disconnect the battery and there is an electrically induced injury or damage or any other type of injury or property loss due to use of this repair aid.

Tools needed;
Philips head screw driver, small and medium
Dental pick or very small finish nail
Needle nose plier
Sandpaper or scotch-brite
Towel or rag

Place a large rag or towel between the gas tank and fairing pocket area, to keep small parts from falling into the abyss of the fairing.

Remove the two (2) Philips head screws on the backside of the switch housing clamshell that hold the switch housing together (the speedo side of housing)
Pull front clamshell of housing apart from handlebar.
 
The push throttle cable will come out of the front clamshell, note where the throttle cables outer housing stops in the clamshell inner cover and how the exposed throttle cable routes through the slot in this cover.
 
The back clamshell can stay in place with the pull throttle cable. You will not be able to move the front clamshell very far from the handle bar as the wiring will still be connected. So I worked with the clamshell in my hand and worked on the switches just above the towel between the gas tank and fairing pocket.

Remove the one Phillips head screw that holds the black inner clamshell throttle cable routing cover. The screw stayed with the cover but may fall out on removal.
 
Remove the starter switch retaining screw.
The starter switch will now come out of the housing for working on the switch.

There is a small roll pin exposed slightly on one side of the button, this is the button retention and hinge feature.
I used a dental pick on the opposite side and could push this roll pin out a little further and had enough of it exposed to pull it out completely with a needle nose plier. While pulling the pin out you must hold together the black button and the white switch housing in place so that the parts don’t go flying as the pin is removed completely.
 
The starter switch button has a top hat and the mating starter switch has a insulated two contact top hat. The spring is slightly coned shaped and the bigger diameter sits on the top hat in the switch, making contact with the outer “brim” of that top hat, the other end of the spring goes onto the starter button top hat feeding the electricity to the starter button. When depressing the starter button the electricity is then fed to the inside insulated contact area of the switch housing top hat.
Both ends of the spring and all contact surfaces on both top hats have to be cleaned with the sandpaper or scotchbrite and then the switch can be re-assembled in reverse order of dis-assembly.

Notes on or before re-assembly;
You may want to clean the throttle tube and put some lube on the throttle ends at the throttle tube.
Also, you may want to remove the pull throttle cable from the back clamshell housing and lube both the throttle pull and push cables where they enter the outer sheaths with some light machine oil so that it makes its way to the carb end.
When putting the clamshells back together pay attention where they meet at the bottom, the front clamshell throttle cable guide cover can get in the way of the back clamshell and interfere with correct closing.
97 C10,ZRX Front, Meanie Rear

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: One time starting problem
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 05:40:00 pm »
 :great: :great: :great:
Thanks Bob
Glad you got it sorted, and also glad you followed the "towel over the abbyss" warnings... :great:
 When I read your description, I just realized that all of the switches I refurbed were Gen I switches, pre 94...
I see you have a 97, and didn't realize they slightly changed the "guts"... the gen I switches were simpler, and didn't have 2 brass contacts, one contact is merely a blob of solder in the early ones... I also don't recall any small roll pin, but my mind drifts sometimes...
I did do service on a 98 once, but it was a rebuilt wrecked bike... and I'm betting they used pre 94 switch pods on it, almost certain, as it had the lower '86 bars on it...

Good job, and it didn't cost anything... which you have to love.... :beerchug:

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