Author Topic: project build up *turbocharged*  (Read 52114 times)

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Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2012, 06:43:32 am »
progress pics...

new material


first header...don't think it would clear the fan...scrap it!


started on the new one






3 of the pipes joined (for the most part)


nekked bike (with a Lamborghini diablo engine next to it)






ok...i'm pooped out..it's almost 4am  :-\

turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2012, 03:16:57 am »
more progress


better radiator/fan clearance (i hope lol)




turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: project build up
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2012, 05:07:49 am »
Looking Good!   :great:
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Offline Dragoon

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Re: project build up
« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2012, 07:56:02 pm »
I looked at all your pics on the site you listed. It looking good and a heap of work. You mentioned 6lbs of boost. What have you done about the pistons and push rods or are you keeping them stock? I ask because you don't make mention of that anywhere I could see.
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2012, 11:20:33 pm »
I looked at all your pics on the site you listed. It looking good and a heap of work. You mentioned 6lbs of boost. What have you done about the pistons and push rods or are you keeping them stock? I ask because you don't make mention of that anywhere I could see.

who is this directed at?...and push rods? lol
turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline Dragoon

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Re: project build up
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2012, 11:48:29 pm »
Pardon me on the "push rods".  I am very old school. And it is directed at the person who is adding a turbo to their Connie.  I ask because 6lbs of boost is considerable to a 1000cc Engine.  As a former tuner of VAG cars, I would always change the pistons and push rods if I went beyond a stage two upgrade. So, aside from semantics, are who ever is adding the a turbo are you addressing the pistons and, shall we say " associated parts" to handle the Increase in stress that a turbo adds to said parts. Also, at what points does the turbo kick in?  I happen to be genuinely interested simply because I loved tuning cars. The only reason I don't do it anymore is I had my two middle fingers crushed when the engine movEd onto them while installing a snub mount and a prograde boost release valve.

Good luck with the project.

Cheers
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2012, 12:05:23 am »
well, at this point, i guess i am the only one building up a "turbo kit" for my concours, kinda following some of "Rev Ryders" steps. as for engine parts, the plan is to get fordged rods and pistons with a lower C/R and i also plan to open the floor of the ex ports at a minimum.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 12:15:35 am by turbo-max »
turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline Dragoon

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Re: project build up
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2012, 12:13:38 am »
Cool     Keep the info coming.  Glad to see you have the right plan for your pistons.  Last question to you and revrider: what sort of power increase do you expect to see?

Cheers
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2012, 12:18:31 am »
well, not really sure, but it all depends on how the bike "feels" to me under different boost/power levels...i figure to run in the 150ish whp range if not more, the turbosupercharger (garrett gt 2052s) i am using claims to have a max power lever support of 250 hp...we shall see  O:-)
turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: project build up
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2012, 12:19:11 am »
Trying to replace the rods and come up with forged pistons is going t be a bit of a challenge. The only good rods that ever existed for the zg/zx1000 engine are the falicon chromoly rods, which were 200 / ea back in 86. I happen to have a nos set in shoodaben, but trust me, that was pure luck finding them. The only other rod upgrade that will fit the crankpins is the zx1000B rod, from 88 to 90, but that rod is 111mm c/c vs the zg rod which is 109.5mm. To my knowledge, there is no low compression zg/zx1000 piston for use with the 111mm rod. the only other thing you can do is use the zx10b piston on the stock rod, and that would lower the piston 1.5mm for lower compression. I believe that's what Rev has been doing, I recall sending him a set of zx10b pistons for that purpose a couple years ago. HTH, Steve
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2012, 12:24:15 am »
thanks SISF for that info, but i figure i can have a set custom made seeing as "we" had a set of carrillo rods made for the 6.0L lamborghini i have been working on, and "we" also had a set of custom pistons made from weisco for the lambo to drop C/R to 9.5:1
turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline Dragoon

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Re: project build up
« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2012, 12:36:13 am »
well, not really sure, but it all depends on how the bike "feels" to me under different boost/power levels...i figure to run in the 150ish whp range if not more, the turbosupercharger (garrett gt 2052s) i am using claims to have a max power lever support of 250 hp...we shall see  O:-)

Now I get to get you back on semantics.  Do you mean "BHP".   LOL
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: project build up
« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2012, 12:41:05 am »
thanks SISF for that info, but i figure i can have a set custom made seeing as "we" had a set of carrillo rods made for the 6.0L lamborghini i have been working on, and "we" also had a set of custom pistons made from weisco for the lambo to drop C/R to 9.5:1

  anything's possible if you have that kind of money. Me, I'm poor / broke / raising a family, I had to figure out how to build my own big block in my little shop and use pistons for another engine, rather than being able to drop massive coin. Heck, if I had the kind of money you're talking, I would be turboing a c-14, not a c-10. Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
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Offline Dragoon

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Re: project build up
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2012, 12:48:50 am »
Kevin Alsop of BBC put a turbo on an XWedge 124ci and rode it for about 5000 miles then took it off.it seems that he would often inadvertently do a wheely at the most inconvenient times and it truly scared him. Those of us who know Kevin well also know he does not scare easily   However, I don't think a VTwin is a good platform for a turbo setup.

Just my .02

Cheers
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2012, 12:53:24 am »
well, not really sure, but it all depends on how the bike "feels" to me under different boost/power levels...i figure to run in the 150ish whp range if not more, the turbosupercharger (garrett gt 2052s) i am using claims to have a max power lever support of 250 hp...we shall see  O:-)

Now I get to get you back on semantics.  Do you mean "BHP".   LOL

no, not referring to "Brake horse power", but rather "wheel horse power" as measured on a dyno.
turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline turbojoe78_MA

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Re: project build up
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2012, 12:55:08 am »
I ask because 6lbs of boost is considerable to a 1000cc Engine.

Cheers

I had a turbo piston kit in my 78 Z1R Turbo and ran the boost at 10 lbs, I was told by the dealer who sold it to me I could run it as high as 13 lbs but he didn't recommend that I keep it there all the time.

It once hit 18 lbs on a run at New England Dragway, (gauge went to 15) with a very inexperienced rider (me) it did 12.14 seconds in the quarter at 122 mph on that run.   :motonoises:

With a 1045cc kit it made 152 rwhp on a dyno, and you didn't see any boost until near the end of second gear.
1968 Honda 160 Scrambler,  Sold / 1979 Kawasaki SR 650, Traded in for next one,  1978 Kawasaki KZ 1000 Z1R Turbo Sold / 1986 Kawasaki ZX 1000R Ninja / 1999 Kawasaki Concours / 2014 Kawasaki Concours 1400  COG memb# 8645


Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #66 on: October 29, 2012, 12:55:32 am »
thanks SISF for that info, but i figure i can have a set custom made seeing as "we" had a set of carrillo rods made for the 6.0L lamborghini i have been working on, and "we" also had a set of custom pistons made from weisco for the lambo to drop C/R to 9.5:1

  anything's possible if you have that kind of money. Me, I'm poor / broke / raising a family, I had to figure out how to build my own big block in my little shop and use pistons for another engine, rather than being able to drop massive coin. Heck, if I had the kind of money you're talking, I would be turboing a c-14, not a c-10. Steve

well, i hope it's not "THAT expensive, but i know it won't be free...also, i would rather only do this one time and be able to beat the crap outta it for a long time and not worry if i am gonna smoke a piston or squish a rod...just sayin' lol
turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline Dragoon

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Re: project build up
« Reply #67 on: October 29, 2012, 01:06:07 am »
well, not really sure, but it all depends on how the bike "feels" to me under different boost/power levels...i figure to run in the 150ish whp range if not more, the turbosupercharger (garrett gt 2052s) i am using claims to have a max power lever support of 250 hp...we shall see  O:-)

Now I get to get you back on semantics.  Do you mean "BHP".   LOL

no, not referring to "Brake horse power", but rather "wheel horse power" as measured on a dyno.
[/quote

That's cool. I did not know you had access to a Dyno. Ours only goes up to 500whp and we smoked it this may when we put the electric bike from MDR and it went on to break the rocorn in its class at 239 mph before it broke a front end aro bracket. They are sure they can do 250+ mph with the new battery assembly which is half the weight. Can you believe the batteries alone cost $79,0005
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #68 on: October 29, 2012, 01:08:04 am »
^^ouch!  :o
turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: project build up
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2012, 12:05:26 am »
Dragoon, I am running a T-25 turbo from a 2nd Generation Mitsubishi Eclipse on my C-10.  I've been running it for over 5 years now with pretty good results.  I have run the bike with stock compression and timing and it breaks stock pistons in that configuration at little more than 8 psi.  I have run stock pistons and up to five (5) base gaskets up to 10 psi boost with mixed results.  In any case it requires some timing roll back and good 93 octane fuel.  I have run ZX10B pistons on Concours rods (this effectively drops compression to around 9.25:1)and run it very well and hard to 10si boost without issue providing it has good quality 93 octane or better fuel in it.  All of this was done on blow-through carbs.  Always with the carbs there were issues of being balanced and I would sometimes break the ring lands out of pistons due to detonation.

Since developing the Microsquirt EFI system for it, I have run boost up to 14 psi on 93 octane fuel and HAVE NOT BROKEN A SINGLE PISTON OR HARMED ANY OTHER ENGINE PART.  The EFI has been on for right at three years now.  The bike power wheelies in the first three gears simply by pinning the throttle and allowing the revs to climb past 5500 while maintaining full throttle.  Boost begins to build at 3600 RPM and is all in by 5500 or earlier depending upon engine load. It requires some practice to use the powerband well in the twisties, but it grows on you to anticipate where in the corner you want how much power.  Never Dynoed, I do not know the actual performance numbers and hate to speculate.  However, it will out run a stock or mildly modified C-14  (actually ANY C-14 I've ever encountered).  The stock rods or ZX10B stock rods and stock ZX10B cast pistons can deal with some very impressive horspower numbers.  Sure, forged slugs would add some insurance and if you're planning on doing long distance or top end runs I would encourage it.  Otherwise, you can build a perfectly streetable and "reasonable sane to mildly insane" Turbo COncours without breaking the bank and not tearing up jack. 

The whole deal comes down to "How much boost is it going to take to satisfy you?"  The ZRX boys run up to 15 psi on stock components... lots of them break them too, but always because they get too hungry and try to stuff too much down the scooter's throat.  BTDT and have a stack of busted parts to show for it.  Now I keep it below 12 psi and NEVER break nuttin and the bike is still faster than a C-14.  10 psi will power wheelie over backwards in 2nd gear just by holding the throttle wide open through 9000 RPM.  12 psi will get you third gear wheelies, but they sometimes require a little clutching.  14 psi (I used VP C-16 gasoline for safety) will roll over backwards in third gear and almost clutch one up in fourth.  Like I said... how much do you need to be satisfied?  The power is seriously addictive.  I want to get mine up to 18 psi to bust that 200 hp mark for sure, but probably not with the cast slugs.  At those power levels speed comes really quickly and a broken part can kill you. 

How fast will it go?  I don't know and don't reckon I ever will.  I've had mine beyond the speedo's numbers twice (roughly 155 indicated or so) with lots left, both times at altitude in New Mexico and again in Colorado when she had the carbs on.  I doubt it would pull beyond 165.  The gearing theoretically taps a C-10 out at 173MPH at 10500 RPM  IIRC.  Add Steve's Seventh Gear mod and a 160/70-17 rear tire and that'll get you nearly 200 if you can power it... but I promise, even if I could, there's no way I would ever see that kind of speed on a C-10.  Mine is more stable at speed than any other I've ridden or owned and I'm not very comfy past 140 on her.

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Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2012, 01:02:43 am »
I'm not very comfy past 140 on her.

 :rotflmao: not sure what speed 8200 in 6th gear on stock size tires equates to, but that is what my stocker would do running WFO for several miles...felt good to me *shrug*
turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: project build up
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2012, 01:44:37 am »
I had mine in excess of 140 and it was still climbing, but that was enough for me. The bike was still stable, but at what point it became unstable could have been just 1 more mph. I really don't think these bikes are really made to go past 135 or so with any expectation of stability. Or maybe I'm just not made to go past 135... JMO, Steve
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: project build up
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2012, 02:02:09 am »
I had mine in excess of 140 and it was still climbing, but that was enough for me. The bike was still stable, but at what point it became unstable could have been just 1 more mph. I really don't think these bikes are really made to go past 135 or so with any expectation of stability. Or maybe I'm just not made to go past 135... JMO, Steve
I can identify with that last comment Steve.  Im not as fast as I once was simply cuz I ain't as unbreakable as I used to be.  THat and I USED to have a roll cage. LOL

Can't say that I've known of a stocker to actually go faster than about 125 (None of mine have), and I think the published top speed for a COnnie was 127. IIRC  Nonetheless, I would agree that she wasn't designed to go that fast.  She's just too prone to be moved about by every changing breeze.  I've never ridden another bike so turbulent in turbulance.
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2012, 03:06:08 am »
here is my dads bike and mine sleeping in the garage...



and here is my mug shot  :-\

turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!

Offline turbo-max

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Re: project build up
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2012, 08:27:56 pm »
got a set of throttle bodies in the mail today....so i had to jump into this for a few minutes  >:D

first order of business was to remove the secondary throttle plates and shaft, then work on spacing..



after a few tweaks to make em fit as good as possible..







stumbled on this digging through boxes of crap looking for parts...

turbo lag is a courteous head start!    ~Jeff H
99 c-10 "the purple monster"
01 c-10 undergoing turbofacation     
03 c-10 some mods...alot of miles
several other c-10's in pieces!