Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours Discussion (C10 / ZG1000 / 1000GTR) => Concours C10 / ZG1000 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: Wantabeach on September 09, 2019, 03:11:19 pm

Title: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 09, 2019, 03:11:19 pm
So my son Eric owns a 92 Concours and we pulled the back and front tires to powder coat the wheels (kids!).  We had to pull the bearing and seals since the powder coat oven goes to 400 degrees or so.  Front wheel and bearings went back on just fine and rotate freely but back wheel is a different story.   When the wheels came back we installed the bearings and seals, reassembled the other wheel parts including the "distance collars" (spacers) and mounted the wheel back on the bike.  It was a tight fit but it all went on just fine and the wheel spun freely until we tighten the bolt.  After tighten, the wheel did not spin at all.  I notice that the outer rim of the wheel was touching the "final gearcase".  After looking at my 2006 Concours, I notice that there is about a 1/16 inch gap between the wheel rim and the final gearcase.  Since all the spacers where in and bearings and seals appear to be flush with the outer wheel housings as you would expect, we were stumped.  We also double checked the order of the parts and spaces and collars, etc. 

I read in one post that they purposefully left a c-clip off the left side (gearcase side) so that once everything locks down some movement is allowed and it will self adjust at some level.  That worries me so I took the wheel back off to inspect seals and bearing positions but nothing came to my attention. 

So what could have happened?  Could I have driven a bearings to far?  Not enough?  One thing I did NOT do when installing the bearing was to "freeze them over night" per the instruction manual. 

Happy to send pics if you think it will help.

Paul and Eric.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: works4me on September 09, 2019, 04:25:53 pm
Did you remove the powder coating from the bearing seat?
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 09, 2019, 04:32:23 pm
They did not powder coat in there.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 09, 2019, 06:21:41 pm
from what you explain, I suspect you missed installing the "outer" axle "end spacer tube".

Many people find that it ends up "staying" inside the rear drive housing, only to fall out and roll away unseen prior to re-assembly...
It looks just like the spacer tube that gets installed between the bearings in the hub, but is slightly shorter it is 89 mm long... it can be seen below 92027

The one between the bearings is the 92027 B...and the longer of the 2 spacers. it's 105.5mm long

also make sure the "hat shaped" spacer is in place on the nut end, on the hub, at that seal...
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 09, 2019, 07:09:19 pm
from what you explain, I suspect you missed installing the "outer" axle "end spacer tube".

Many people find that it ends up "staying" inside the rear drive housing, only to fall out and roll away unseen prior to re-assembly...
It looks just like the spacer tube that gets installed between the bearings in the hub, but is slightly shorter it is 89 mm long... it can be seen below 92027

The one between the bearings is the 92027 B...and the longer of the 2 spacers. it's 105.5mm long

also make sure the "hat shaped" spacer is in place on the nut end, on the hub, at that seal...

Thank you Man of Blues but both of those are in there already.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: mgoodrich on September 09, 2019, 08:13:54 pm
My question would be how thick is the powder coating itself?

Is it built up enough on the rim of the wheel that it took up the 16 of an inch you see on your 2006?
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 09, 2019, 08:43:40 pm
My question would be how thick is the powder coating itself?

Is it built up enough on the rim of the wheel that it took up the 16 of an inch you see on your 2006?

I do not believe the powder coating was on the edge of the wheel hub that would connect to the gearcase and the gearcase was not powder coated.

Paul.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 09, 2019, 08:50:03 pm
Is it possible to drive the bearing on the left side (gearcase) too far?  Just logically, it seems that I would have had to drive the bearing too far on the gearcase side whereby the spacer that goes between the wheel and the gearcase would not have been able to keep the proper spacing.

Make sense ?

Paul
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Daytona_Mike on September 09, 2019, 09:16:17 pm
My first thought was the same as MOB's but you say the spacer(s)  are installed correctly.

  I saw where one person had their rims powder coated ( I too had mine powder coated ) but their issue was the bearings were loose in the wheel.  Turned out that when they sand blasted and prepped the rims for coating they also blasted the bearing housings and enlarged them  rendering the rims no good.
 I don't think that is your issue but I thought I should  mention it just in case.

Also I was told not to reuse my old bearings because sometimes they have to be slide- hammered out or pounded out if you do not have a press. Did your bearings come out easily  and go back in too easily.  Just asking. Grasping at straws basically.
Maybe some pictures for us to look at would help.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 09, 2019, 09:28:31 pm
My first thought was the same as MOB's but you say the spacer(s)  are installed correctly.

  I saw where one person had their rims powder coated ( I too had mine powder coated ) but their issue was the bearings were loose in the wheel.  Turned out that when they sand blasted and prepped the rims for coating they also blasted the bearing housings and enlarged them  rendering the rims no good.
 I don't think that is your issue but I thought I should  mention it just in case.

Also I was told not to reuse my old bearings because sometimes they have to be slide- hammered out or pounded out if you do not have a press. Did your bearings come out easily  and go back in too easily.  Just asking. Grasping at straws basically.
Maybe some pictures for us to look at would help.

They did not touch the bearing area thankfully.  I’m using new bearings.

Thank you.
Paul
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 09, 2019, 09:37:03 pm
How about this.

Is the left side bearing position dependent on the right side? Since the instruction are to install the right side first with the c-clip, insert spacer and then install left side, is that how the left side bearing is positioned laterally?  It is possible that we did not seat the right side all the way even though it cleared the c-clip which is installed.  We did not freeze the bearings overnight as per instructions and those bearing went in real hard (harder than front for sure). If i did not drive the right side all the way and the left side positioning is dependent, this would cause the left side bearing to be to far to the right side, providing too much space for the left side wheel / spacer / gearcase positioning and allowing the left side wheel hub to touch the gearcase.

Thoughts?

Paul.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 09, 2019, 10:08:03 pm
ok, I had 2 beers, and have to ask again...  :beerchug: :??: :??:

you say the tube spacers are installed correctly.. but now, you get the "pinch".. are you positive, you installed the spacers in the correct spots?  I'm not trying to be belittling, or say anything to make you mad, but ....  the wheel "stackup" is fixed by the fact of the right side bearing, shoved in, and the "clip ring installed", and the remainder of the parts are reassembled.. i know powder coating isn't gonna push stuff out that much, to make a pinch... if you put the "short sleeve", in the wheel, between the bearings...  that will occur.. just grabbing straws as I have had these parts off, and in hands, and written about doing this service a long while ago. And have done it a number of times...  Pull the wheel, and measure the length of the "sleeve" that sits between the gear case, and left hand bearing face......
I gave the lengths above.. there is about 1" difference between the 2...just keep saying this...
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 10, 2019, 12:28:10 am
ok, I had 2 beers, and have to ask again...  :beerchug: :??: :??:

you say the tube spacers are installed correctly.. but now, you get the "pinch".. are you positive, you installed the spacers in the correct spots?  I'm not trying to be belittling, or say anything to make you mad, but ....  the wheel "stackup" is fixed by the fact of the right side bearing, shoved in, and the "clip ring installed", and the remainder of the parts are reassembled.. i know powder coating isn't gonna push stuff out that much, to make a pinch... if you put the "short sleeve", in the wheel, between the bearings...  that will occur.. just grabbing straws as I have had these parts off, and in hands, and written about doing this service a long while ago. And have done it a number of times...  Pull the wheel, and measure the length of the "sleeve" that sits between the gear case, and left hand bearing face......
I gave the lengths above.. there is about 1" difference between the 2...just keep saying this...

Thank you. I will reinstall the wheel tonight or tomorrow to be sure but the spacer between the bearings in the wheel touch each bearing when i feel with my index fingers and the short spacer was right there when i pulled the wheel off. I would have had to have missed the short spacer and pushed it to the side as I drove the axle by it in the installation of the wheel. Not likely IMO. 

Let me know what you think of my logic in my last post.

Thanks
Paul.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 10, 2019, 02:58:45 am
Umm.. shove the axle, with the washer, slightly into the drive.. reach in and slide on the outer spacer I noted... then install the wheel assembly, outer spacer, and etc..

just make sure the spacer you DID install in the hub, was the LONG one... opposed to the shorter one...the short one is the one outside... and spaces the rear end from the wheel...


Measure again.. I've removed a bunch of these rear tires.. a big bunch of them.. .
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 10, 2019, 03:07:46 am
Umm.. shove the axle, with the washer, slightly into the drive.. reach in and slide on the outer spacer I noted... then install the wheel assembly, outer spacer, and etc..

just make sure the spacer you DID install in the hub, was the LONG one... opposed to the shorter one...the short one is the one outside... and spaces the rear end from the wheel...


Measure again.. I've removed a bunch of these rear tires.. a big bunch of them.. .

Will do.  It will be tomorrow when I try to install again and will report back.
 
Thanks
Paul
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 10, 2019, 03:17:08 am
 :great:
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Bob_C_CT on September 10, 2019, 08:31:28 am
If the spacers check out, a real long shot, but make sure your bearings are the correct width.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 10, 2019, 05:30:41 pm
If the spacers check out, a real long shot, but make sure your bearings are the correct width.

May be a bit hard to measure since the bearings are on the wheel but I’ll figure something out.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: m in sc on September 10, 2019, 06:00:27 pm
if you have a set of calipers should be easy to do with the tail of it from the other side of the wheel through the hole.   it just feels like something got swapped or forgotten though.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 10, 2019, 09:06:48 pm
If the spacers check out, a real long shot, but make sure your bearings are the correct width.

May be a bit hard to measure since the bearings are on the wheel but I’ll figure something out.

Look at the bearings, and write down the numbers marked on them... and report to us, or tell us whose bearings, or what you purchased, so we can simplify it for you.. number would be on the box also, but i'm sure that's gone now...

all rear bearings are the same thru all the years...

Kaw # 601B6304ZZ

other suppliers use generic bearing number, so it will be common also;
#6304-ZZ, or #6304-2RS, depending on who manufactured it..
(20mm bore x 52mm OD x 15mm wide)
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 11, 2019, 02:56:32 am
So I mounted the back wheel again tonight with the same result.  All the spacers are in there correctly but the wheel will not spin freely after its tighten down.  Again, the space between the wheel and the gearcase is minimal if not touching (see picture attached). 

Does anyone know if the left wheel bearing bottoms out in the wheel or does it bottom out against the inner spacer (between the bearings) and thus the right bearing?  One possible theory is that I did not pound the right bearing in far enough which is allowing to much space on the other side.  The instruction say to install the right side bearing and circlip first, the long spacer and then install the left bearing (which has no circlip).  So if the right bearing did not bottom out, the left bearing could be too far to the center (right) allowing too much space between the left bearing, short spacer and gearcase and thus allowing the wheel to touch the gearcase. The right side circlip is installed but there may be room to install it even if the right bearing is not bottomed out. 

If everything was in its place and fixed to the inner race of the bearing, the wheel should spin freely but it does not.  We have the right bearings.  We bought the good ones from Murphs.  I somehow must not have the right bearing installed correctly.  I guess I will need to tear it a part and try again unless someone has a better theory. 

Am I the only one who have encountered this problem?

Thanks
Paul
 
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 11, 2019, 02:58:28 am
If the spacers check out, a real long shot, but make sure your bearings are the correct width.

May be a bit hard to measure since the bearings are on the wheel but I’ll figure something out.

Look at the bearings, and write down the numbers marked on them... and report to us, or tell us whose bearings, or what you purchased, so we can simplify it for you.. number would be on the box also, but i'm sure that's gone now...

all rear bearings are the same thru all the years...

Kaw # 601B6304ZZ

other suppliers use generic bearing number, so it will be common also;
#6304-ZZ, or #6304-2RS, depending on who manufactured it..
(20mm bore x 52mm OD x 15mm wide)

We got them from Murphs so they are the good ones but we don't we have the packaging.  Bearings are installed so I can't see the numbers right now.

Paul
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: BrianD on September 11, 2019, 09:50:57 am
I just had my rear wheel off (putting a new rear tire on), and by the looks of the caliper side spacer in the photo above, I'm beginning to suspect that your theory about not getting the right side wheel bearing fully seated is your problem.  When I reassembled my rear wheel, I'm pretty sure the caliper side spacer did not stick out that far from the hub, which would indicate my bearing was seated further into the wheel.  From looking at pictures in the service manual, the rear bearings should be driven in until they stop against the inner ridge on the wheel.  If I was you, I would take the wheel off, remove the seal and circlip from the caliper side, and see if you can drive the bearing in any further.  Worth a shot.  Also, there is a comment in the service manual about having the "marked or shielded side" of the bearing facing out.  Hopefully that's how you installed them.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Lee on September 11, 2019, 10:57:00 am
In reading this string of posts seems odd in extreme if all is right why wrong! It would have to be something simple.

The thoughts on bearing not pressed fully is certainly worth the trouble to check. Just use a beverage can sliver cut & bent appropriately as feeler gauge or a piece of wire hammered flat. Dirt or debri from press home may be a factor.

After pressing bearings of all sorts. I find the method where one uses freeze of bearing combined with heat to part to be extremely easy on parts and installer.

Of note: too much heat will allow bearing to slip backward and not seat. This is especially true if flipping part to install bearing on opposite side while still warm.

Sad to say I have also had a sliver of metal from false start with press or hammer be a problem with full seating. If I ever get a false start I now remove bearing and check for metal slivers.

Never had that issue with freeze/heat method. In some cases bearing just drops right in.

Good luck on finding source of problem.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 11, 2019, 12:52:46 pm
    I got caught on this the first time I did wheel bearings. IIRC one (I don't recall which) side has a bottoming ridge and the bearing must be driven to that point, then the other bearing is driven to the point that it takes the slack out from the spacer tube, but no more or it will preload the bearings and burn them out in short order.  Steve
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: mgoodrich on September 11, 2019, 01:08:34 pm
http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/right-rear-bearing/msg553631/?topicseen#msg553631 (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/right-rear-bearing/msg553631/?topicseen#msg553631)
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 11, 2019, 02:29:40 pm
    I got caught on this the first time I did wheel bearings. IIRC one (I don't recall which) side has a bottoming ridge and the bearing must be driven to that point, then the other bearing is driven to the point that it takes the slack out from the spacer tube, but no more or it will preload the bearings and burn them out in short order.  Steve

Ok then. I’m going to pull it off tonight again and see if i can drive the right bearing down some more. Right now the inner space can move slightly so no preload. When the axle tightens down I assume this comes together as it should.  Hopefully I can get the seal out with destroying it.

Just in case, have you ever pulled a new bearing out and reinstalled it?

Thank you
Paul
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: m in sc on September 11, 2019, 03:14:14 pm
use a large socket or pipe that contacts the edge of the bearing, not the center, and drive it down. if there is play along the axis of the spacer, you def do not have them in far enough. 
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: mgoodrich on September 11, 2019, 03:29:10 pm
If I have to tap on the inner race to drive out the bearing, I always use a new one.

The other thing you could do, although kind of a pain to do, since you have a 2006 as well, you could pull that tire and take a look at where the left rear bearing is at. 

Or just try to put that wheel on your 2006 to see if it has the same issue, if so then you know the bearings aren't installed correctly and then you can start pulling seals apart etc.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 11, 2019, 03:46:06 pm
[url]http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/right-rear-bearing/msg553631/?topicseen#msg553631[/url] ([url]http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/right-rear-bearing/msg553631/?topicseen#msg553631[/url])


That was helpful. Thank you.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 12, 2019, 12:23:29 pm
use a large socket or pipe that contacts the edge of the bearing, not the center, and drive it down. if there is play along the axis of the spacer, you def do not have them in far enough.

This brings up a good point. I may already be screwed because my current plan is to drive the right bearing in more so that it will push the left bearing out more and create more separation between the wheel hub and the gearcase which is where I believe there is friction.

Since the inner spacer will in theory need to push the left bearing out and by necessity both center bearing races will be subject to maximum pressure in the process, it may damage both bearings.

So what would you do?  Pound away and take your chances that you will likely get a fair amount of life of those bearings or scrap it all and start over?   I could use my bearing puller kit to push the left bearing out a bit and save the right side from such abuse. The left bearing could be damaged of course b/c that puller grabs the inner race to push it out.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Bob_C_CT on September 12, 2019, 12:46:06 pm
Yes I see your dilemma. I’m surprised that you were able to install the circlip into the undercut if the bearing wasn’t fully seated on the rotor side.
I can’t think of way of cooling the bearings while letting the rim heat up in the southern heat to see if the can be moved with minimal force.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 12, 2019, 01:06:39 pm
Yes I see your dilemma. I’m surprised that you were able to install the circlip into the undercut if the bearing wasn’t fully seated on the rotor side.
I can’t think of way of cooling the bearings while letting the rim heat up in the southern heat to see if the can be moved with minimal force.

Liquid nitro?  Or easier to get, upside down aerosol air duster can for blowing out computers will blow very cold liquid.  I could concentrate on the bearing but obvious the wheel would be affected too.   
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: m in sc on September 12, 2019, 01:51:46 pm
to be honest, if its in question, just order a new bearing. get the bearing number off the side and order one from mcmaster carr. make sure its a good quality one and youre good to go.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: BrianD on September 12, 2019, 02:35:03 pm
Instead of using a socket on the right side bearing, use something that lays flat across both the inner and outer race when you try to tap it in further.  That way, the distance collar is not stressing the inner race on the right side, only on the left.  I also would not "pound away".  You are only looking to move the left side bearing a 1/16 of an inch or so to relieve the pinch.  I would think that is possible without damaging the bearing.

I say stop over thinking it and git 'er done!  Good luck.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 12, 2019, 03:24:53 pm
use a large socket or pipe that contacts the edge of the bearing, not the center, and drive it down. if there is play along the axis of the spacer, you def do not have them in far enough.

This brings up a good point. I may already be screwed because my current plan is to drive the right bearing in more so that it will push the left bearing out more and create more separation between the wheel hub and the gearcase which is where I believe there is friction.

Since the inner spacer will in theory need to push the left bearing out and by necessity both center bearing races will be subject to maximum pressure in the process, it may damage both bearings.

So what would you do?  Pound away and take your chances that you will likely get a fair amount of life of those bearings or scrap it all and start over?   I could use my bearing puller kit to push the left bearing out a bit and save the right side from such abuse. The left bearing could be damaged of course b/c that puller grabs the inner race to push it out.

You're gonna wreck the bearings if you use the bearings to move the spacer.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Lee on September 12, 2019, 04:02:24 pm
NEW BEARINGS sadly. These have now been compressed laterally in a way that is detrimental to longevity. If you are now certain as to what was wrong. New bearings and rectify issue.

Not worth the pain of failure on kicking that can down the road or to the side of the road as case may be.

If you change your bearings every other tire change then what expense if forfeiting these to the gods of DIYers as sacrifice.

Pay now or pay more possibly more later, aye?

Yeah just one comment among many. Good luck regardless!
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: m in sc on September 12, 2019, 04:15:38 pm
once the 1st bearing is seated the spacer should hold true. never, EVER strike the inner race of a bearing you plan on using again. period. golden rule. if you do, you will dimple the races and basically ruin it from the get go.

you can use, in lieu of a press, a large socket with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side of the wheel. this is the lowest impact way to do it. we just did a set of kz mags this way, took like 15 minutes to do both wheels.



Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 12, 2019, 06:45:22 pm
Instead of using a socket on the right side bearing, use something that lays flat across both the inner and outer race when you try to tap it in further.  That way, the distance collar is not stressing the inner race on the right side, only on the left.  I also would not "pound away".  You are only looking to move the left side bearing a 1/16 of an inch or so to relieve the pinch.  I would think that is possible without damaging the bearing.

I say stop over thinking it and git 'er done!  Good luck.

Well you would not be the first person to accuse me of overthinking something. 

Steve said to be careful not to permanently "preload" the bearings and spacer with too much force....that they should just be touching or else it will wear out a lot quicker. 

The current plan is to use my bearing remover (which grabs in the inner race) to push both bearings out, freeze them (this time) and reinstall properly.  I know its not recommended to install bearings but these are brand new.  We will definitely make sure they are not loose after we punch them out and check them with each tire change.  They are the good Murphs bearings so hopefully that mean something.

Paul

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 12, 2019, 08:58:32 pm
once the 1st bearing is seated the spacer should hold true. never, EVER strike the inner race of a bearing you plan on using again. period. golden rule. if you do, you will dimple the races and basically ruin it from the get go.

you can use, in lieu of a press, a large socket with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side of the wheel. this is the lowest impact way to do it. we just did a set of kz mags this way, took like 15 minutes to do both wheels.

Interest but not sure what you mean exactly....what does " with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side" mean?  A tool that mates to the other side and pulls the bearing to the seat?

Thanks
Paul
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Bud on September 12, 2019, 09:48:36 pm
This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Kh4A48zEQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Kh4A48zEQ)
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 12, 2019, 11:11:59 pm
once the 1st bearing is seated the spacer should hold true. never, EVER strike the inner race of a bearing you plan on using again. period. golden rule. if you do, you will dimple the races and basically ruin it from the get go.

you can use, in lieu of a press, a large socket with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side of the wheel. this is the lowest impact way to do it. we just did a set of kz mags this way, took like 15 minutes to do both wheels.

Interest but not sure what you mean exactly....what does " with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side" mean?  A tool that mates to the other side and pulls the bearing to the seat?

Thanks
Paul

I have been keeping quiet, and not pressing further, but in reality this whole "assembly of parts..." if assembled correctly, like everything present, and in it's correct positions; yields the exact same outcome when the axle bolt and nut are tightened together.. when the spacer that is slid onto the axle, and resides inside the drive housing, comes into contact with the face of the wheel bearing, and everything is tightened, it will pull the bearings inwards, onto the inner wheel spacer, and the resulting stackup of parts goes "solid" between the fixed points of the swingarm, and drive housing.. internally. thats why there is no clip on the drive side bore...
As far as the right side wheel bearing, the one with the "C" clip, it really cannot be driven in far enough to offset this. It stops on the internal step of that bore, and never has more than about 1mm of clearance to that "C"clip..if even that much... probably much less.. if the clip is in place, and the farside bearing is not "pinching" on the hub spacer tube, it will be drawn down the same as doing it as was noted.

This is what has me so baffled... if everything was there, the clip was in the groove, worst case scenario would be the bearings get forced together tight on the wheel spacer, and when the nut is backed off, and wheel "spun, and then retightened" .. it MUST clear.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Bob_C_CT on September 13, 2019, 12:32:49 am
That’s what I was thinking MOB, if the circlip is installed in the undercut then the bearing must be installed correctly on the rotor side. I don’t think that the bearing could have much clearance between the circlip and the bearing stop in the wheel.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 13, 2019, 02:12:29 am
once the 1st bearing is seated the spacer should hold true. never, EVER strike the inner race of a bearing you plan on using again. period. golden rule. if you do, you will dimple the races and basically ruin it from the get go.

you can use, in lieu of a press, a large socket with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side of the wheel. this is the lowest impact way to do it. we just did a set of kz mags this way, took like 15 minutes to do both wheels.

Interest but not sure what you mean exactly....what does " with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side" mean?  A tool that mates to the other side and pulls the bearing to the seat?

Thanks
Paul

I have been keeping quiet, and not pressing further, but in reality this whole "assembly of parts..." if assembled correctly, like everything present, and in it's correct positions; yields the exact same outcome when the axle bolt and nut are tightened together.. when the spacer that is slid onto the axle, and resides inside the drive housing, comes into contact with the face of the wheel bearing, and everything is tightened, it will pull the bearings inwards, onto the inner wheel spacer, and the resulting stackup of parts goes "solid" between the fixed points of the swingarm, and drive housing.. internally. thats why there is no clip on the drive side bore...
As far as the right side wheel bearing, the one with the "C" clip, it really cannot be driven in far enough to offset this. It stops on the internal step of that bore, and never has more than about 1mm of clearance to that "C"clip..if even that much... probably much less.. if the clip is in place, and the farside bearing is not "pinching" on the hub spacer tube, it will be drawn down the same as doing it as was noted.

This is what has me so baffled... if everything was there, the clip was in the groove, worst case scenario would be the bearings get forced together tight on the wheel spacer, and when the nut is backed off, and wheel "spun, and then retightened" .. it MUST clear.

Don't know what to say but that the spacers are in there and in no way would the long spacer fit between gearcase and the wheel hub so its impossible to have them reversed.  What else I can do but remove, check and re-assemble anyway.  I will pay close attention and measure right side bearing / circlip clearances for sure.   

You do agree that the right side bearing must be fully seated before any of this works properly right?  You just think that if the circlip is in there, it should be close enough not to cause a problem on the left side if I got you right.

Thanks
Paul 
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: JPD on September 13, 2019, 05:11:28 am
Did you ever measure the thickness of the new bearing inner races? If they are out of spec,  removing and reinstalling all you want will not get you the 1/16 " you  need. Just because they are new doesn't mean they are correct. I would also measures the total of the bearings and spacer in the wheel and compare it to the size MOB gave you. You should be able to do this without removing the bearings.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: m in sc on September 13, 2019, 11:31:44 am


Interest but not sure what you mean exactly....what does " with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side" mean?  A tool that mates to the other side and pulls the bearing to the seat?

Thanks
Paul

exactly.

and the comment above about them not being right? its very rare but possible. case in point, the kz i referenced we just did the bearing son? got a set supposedly for THAT bike, bearings were wrong size and had to source our own. the id was incorrect but still, it happened. that was last week actually. sometimes they just get packaged incorrectly.

I agree, if the bearing with the clip is seated, with clip in, it should all go together if all parts are correct (as was said above) with no issues on side to side. 
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 13, 2019, 11:33:53 am
Did you ever measure the thickness of the new bearing inner races? If they are out of spec,  removing and reinstalling all you want will not get you the 1/16 " you  need. Just because they are new doesn't mean they are correct. I would also measures the total of the bearings and spacer in the wheel and compare it to the size MOB gave you. You should be able to do this without removing the bearings.

Not yet. Eric and I will work on the bike tonight so we can check at that time. I still have the old bearings too so I can compare also.

Thanks
Paul
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Bud on September 13, 2019, 12:08:15 pm
I can attest to Mark's comment about parts being boxed incorrectly.  The suspension on my Grand Prix is still in pieces due to buying a moog lower control arm.  The part number on the box was correct.  The part ended up being for the other side of the car.  1st bought from Amazon.  2nd bought from Walmart.  Hopefully moog will ship a correctly boxed part this time.  Still another week until it ships......hopefully. ::)
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: m in sc on September 13, 2019, 01:13:09 pm
rockauto. just sayin.  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Wantabeach on September 14, 2019, 10:29:17 pm
Well.....it’s fixed. The cold bearings slide right in. The left side just dropped right in so I did not even hammer; that was strange actually.  So i just assemble it and it worked.  I did not see where the Kawasaki manual suggest freezing the bearings and other details that the Clymer manual suggested. When we installed it the first time, I thought we needed to bottom out the left bearing which I’m sure pushed the right bearing over a bit and caused the problem. There is a little slack between the bearing and circlip.

So all’s well that ends well. I really appreciate everyone’s help. We have really learned a lot from everyone on the forum.

Thank you so much!
Paul.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think
Post by: Lee on September 16, 2019, 12:02:02 am
Hallelujah! Damn fine day it is. So glad to read this here!