Rear Wheel Bearing Issues - I think

[mgoodrich]

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/right-rear-bearing/msg553631/?topicseen#msg553631

[Wantabeach]

    I got caught on this the first time I did wheel bearings. IIRC one (I don't recall which) side has a bottoming ridge and the bearing must be driven to that point, then the other bearing is driven to the point that it takes the slack out from the spacer tube, but no more or it will preload the bearings and burn them out in short order.  Steve

Ok then. I’m going to pull it off tonight again and see if i can drive the right bearing down some more. Right now the inner space can move slightly so no preload. When the axle tightens down I assume this comes together as it should.  Hopefully I can get the seal out with destroying it.

Just in case, have you ever pulled a new bearing out and reinstalled it?

Thank you
Paul

[m in sc]

use a large socket or pipe that contacts the edge of the bearing, not the center, and drive it down. if there is play along the axis of the spacer, you def do not have them in far enough. 

[mgoodrich]

If I have to tap on the inner race to drive out the bearing, I always use a new one.

The other thing you could do, although kind of a pain to do, since you have a 2006 as well, you could pull that tire and take a look at where the left rear bearing is at. 

Or just try to put that wheel on your 2006 to see if it has the same issue, if so then you know the bearings aren't installed correctly and then you can start pulling seals apart etc.

[Wantabeach]

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/right-rear-bearing/msg553631/?topicseen#msg553631

That was helpful. Thank you.

[Wantabeach]

use a large socket or pipe that contacts the edge of the bearing, not the center, and drive it down. if there is play along the axis of the spacer, you def do not have them in far enough.

This brings up a good point. I may already be screwed because my current plan is to drive the right bearing in more so that it will push the left bearing out more and create more separation between the wheel hub and the gearcase which is where I believe there is friction.

Since the inner spacer will in theory need to push the left bearing out and by necessity both center bearing races will be subject to maximum pressure in the process, it may damage both bearings.

So what would you do?  Pound away and take your chances that you will likely get a fair amount of life of those bearings or scrap it all and start over?   I could use my bearing puller kit to push the left bearing out a bit and save the right side from such abuse. The left bearing could be damaged of course b/c that puller grabs the inner race to push it out.

[Bob_C_CT]

Yes I see your dilemma. I’m surprised that you were able to install the circlip into the undercut if the bearing wasn’t fully seated on the rotor side.
I can’t think of way of cooling the bearings while letting the rim heat up in the southern heat to see if the can be moved with minimal force.

[Wantabeach]

Yes I see your dilemma. I’m surprised that you were able to install the circlip into the undercut if the bearing wasn’t fully seated on the rotor side.
I can’t think of way of cooling the bearings while letting the rim heat up in the southern heat to see if the can be moved with minimal force.

Liquid nitro?  Or easier to get, upside down aerosol air duster can for blowing out computers will blow very cold liquid.  I could concentrate on the bearing but obvious the wheel would be affected too.   

[m in sc]

to be honest, if its in question, just order a new bearing. get the bearing number off the side and order one from mcmaster carr. make sure its a good quality one and youre good to go.

[BrianD]

Instead of using a socket on the right side bearing, use something that lays flat across both the inner and outer race when you try to tap it in further.  That way, the distance collar is not stressing the inner race on the right side, only on the left.  I also would not "pound away".  You are only looking to move the left side bearing a 1/16 of an inch or so to relieve the pinch.  I would think that is possible without damaging the bearing.

I say stop over thinking it and git 'er done!  Good luck.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

use a large socket or pipe that contacts the edge of the bearing, not the center, and drive it down. if there is play along the axis of the spacer, you def do not have them in far enough.

This brings up a good point. I may already be screwed because my current plan is to drive the right bearing in more so that it will push the left bearing out more and create more separation between the wheel hub and the gearcase which is where I believe there is friction.

Since the inner spacer will in theory need to push the left bearing out and by necessity both center bearing races will be subject to maximum pressure in the process, it may damage both bearings.

So what would you do?  Pound away and take your chances that you will likely get a fair amount of life of those bearings or scrap it all and start over?   I could use my bearing puller kit to push the left bearing out a bit and save the right side from such abuse. The left bearing could be damaged of course b/c that puller grabs the inner race to push it out.

You're gonna wreck the bearings if you use the bearings to move the spacer.

[Lee]

NEW BEARINGS sadly. These have now been compressed laterally in a way that is detrimental to longevity. If you are now certain as to what was wrong. New bearings and rectify issue.

Not worth the pain of failure on kicking that can down the road or to the side of the road as case may be.

If you change your bearings every other tire change then what expense if forfeiting these to the gods of DIYers as sacrifice.

Pay now or pay more possibly more later, aye?

Yeah just one comment among many. Good luck regardless!

[m in sc]

once the 1st bearing is seated the spacer should hold true. never, EVER strike the inner race of a bearing you plan on using again. period. golden rule. if you do, you will dimple the races and basically ruin it from the get go.

you can use, in lieu of a press, a large socket with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side of the wheel. this is the lowest impact way to do it. we just did a set of kz mags this way, took like 15 minutes to do both wheels.

[Wantabeach]

Instead of using a socket on the right side bearing, use something that lays flat across both the inner and outer race when you try to tap it in further.  That way, the distance collar is not stressing the inner race on the right side, only on the left.  I also would not "pound away".  You are only looking to move the left side bearing a 1/16 of an inch or so to relieve the pinch.  I would think that is possible without damaging the bearing.

I say stop over thinking it and git 'er done!  Good luck.

Well you would not be the first person to accuse me of overthinking something. 

Steve said to be careful not to permanently "preload" the bearings and spacer with too much force....that they should just be touching or else it will wear out a lot quicker. 

The current plan is to use my bearing remover (which grabs in the inner race) to push both bearings out, freeze them (this time) and reinstall properly.  I know its not recommended to install bearings but these are brand new.  We will definitely make sure they are not loose after we punch them out and check them with each tire change.  They are the good Murphs bearings so hopefully that mean something.

Paul

[Wantabeach]

once the 1st bearing is seated the spacer should hold true. never, EVER strike the inner race of a bearing you plan on using again. period. golden rule. if you do, you will dimple the races and basically ruin it from the get go.

you can use, in lieu of a press, a large socket with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side of the wheel. this is the lowest impact way to do it. we just did a set of kz mags this way, took like 15 minutes to do both wheels.

Interest but not sure what you mean exactly....what does " with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side" mean?  A tool that mates to the other side and pulls the bearing to the seat?

Thanks
Paul

[Bud]

This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Kh4A48zEQ

[MAN OF BLUES]

once the 1st bearing is seated the spacer should hold true. never, EVER strike the inner race of a bearing you plan on using again. period. golden rule. if you do, you will dimple the races and basically ruin it from the get go.

you can use, in lieu of a press, a large socket with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side of the wheel. this is the lowest impact way to do it. we just did a set of kz mags this way, took like 15 minutes to do both wheels.

Interest but not sure what you mean exactly....what does " with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side" mean?  A tool that mates to the other side and pulls the bearing to the seat?

Thanks
Paul

I have been keeping quiet, and not pressing further, but in reality this whole "assembly of parts..." if assembled correctly, like everything present, and in it's correct positions; yields the exact same outcome when the axle bolt and nut are tightened together.. when the spacer that is slid onto the axle, and resides inside the drive housing, comes into contact with the face of the wheel bearing, and everything is tightened, it will pull the bearings inwards, onto the inner wheel spacer, and the resulting stackup of parts goes "solid" between the fixed points of the swingarm, and drive housing.. internally. thats why there is no clip on the drive side bore...
As far as the right side wheel bearing, the one with the "C" clip, it really cannot be driven in far enough to offset this. It stops on the internal step of that bore, and never has more than about 1mm of clearance to that "C"clip..if even that much... probably much less.. if the clip is in place, and the farside bearing is not "pinching" on the hub spacer tube, it will be drawn down the same as doing it as was noted.

This is what has me so baffled... if everything was there, the clip was in the groove, worst case scenario would be the bearings get forced together tight on the wheel spacer, and when the nut is backed off, and wheel "spun, and then retightened" .. it MUST clear.

[Bob_C_CT]

That’s what I was thinking MOB, if the circlip is installed in the undercut then the bearing must be installed correctly on the rotor side. I don’t think that the bearing could have much clearance between the circlip and the bearing stop in the wheel.

[Wantabeach]

once the 1st bearing is seated the spacer should hold true. never, EVER strike the inner race of a bearing you plan on using again. period. golden rule. if you do, you will dimple the races and basically ruin it from the get go.

you can use, in lieu of a press, a large socket with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side of the wheel. this is the lowest impact way to do it. we just did a set of kz mags this way, took like 15 minutes to do both wheels.

Interest but not sure what you mean exactly....what does " with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side" mean?  A tool that mates to the other side and pulls the bearing to the seat?

Thanks
Paul

I have been keeping quiet, and not pressing further, but in reality this whole "assembly of parts..." if assembled correctly, like everything present, and in it's correct positions; yields the exact same outcome when the axle bolt and nut are tightened together.. when the spacer that is slid onto the axle, and resides inside the drive housing, comes into contact with the face of the wheel bearing, and everything is tightened, it will pull the bearings inwards, onto the inner wheel spacer, and the resulting stackup of parts goes "solid" between the fixed points of the swingarm, and drive housing.. internally. thats why there is no clip on the drive side bore...
As far as the right side wheel bearing, the one with the "C" clip, it really cannot be driven in far enough to offset this. It stops on the internal step of that bore, and never has more than about 1mm of clearance to that "C"clip..if even that much... probably much less.. if the clip is in place, and the farside bearing is not "pinching" on the hub spacer tube, it will be drawn down the same as doing it as was noted.

This is what has me so baffled... if everything was there, the clip was in the groove, worst case scenario would be the bearings get forced together tight on the wheel spacer, and when the nut is backed off, and wheel "spun, and then retightened" .. it MUST clear.

Don't know what to say but that the spacers are in there and in no way would the long spacer fit between gearcase and the wheel hub so its impossible to have them reversed.  What else I can do but remove, check and re-assemble anyway.  I will pay close attention and measure right side bearing / circlip clearances for sure.   

You do agree that the right side bearing must be fully seated before any of this works properly right?  You just think that if the circlip is in there, it should be close enough not to cause a problem on the left side if I got you right.

Thanks
Paul 

[JPD]

Did you ever measure the thickness of the new bearing inner races? If they are out of spec,  removing and reinstalling all you want will not get you the 1/16 " you  need. Just because they are new doesn't mean they are correct. I would also measures the total of the bearings and spacer in the wheel and compare it to the size MOB gave you. You should be able to do this without removing the bearings.

[m in sc]

Interest but not sure what you mean exactly....what does " with all thread thru it to pull the bearing through from the other side" mean?  A tool that mates to the other side and pulls the bearing to the seat?

Thanks
Paul

exactly.

and the comment above about them not being right? its very rare but possible. case in point, the kz i referenced we just did the bearing son? got a set supposedly for THAT bike, bearings were wrong size and had to source our own. the id was incorrect but still, it happened. that was last week actually. sometimes they just get packaged incorrectly.

I agree, if the bearing with the clip is seated, with clip in, it should all go together if all parts are correct (as was said above) with no issues on side to side. 

[Wantabeach]

Did you ever measure the thickness of the new bearing inner races? If they are out of spec,  removing and reinstalling all you want will not get you the 1/16 " you  need. Just because they are new doesn't mean they are correct. I would also measures the total of the bearings and spacer in the wheel and compare it to the size MOB gave you. You should be able to do this without removing the bearings.

Not yet. Eric and I will work on the bike tonight so we can check at that time. I still have the old bearings too so I can compare also.

Thanks
Paul

[Bud]

I can attest to Mark's comment about parts being boxed incorrectly.  The suspension on my Grand Prix is still in pieces due to buying a moog lower control arm.  The part number on the box was correct.  The part ended up being for the other side of the car.  1st bought from Amazon.  2nd bought from Walmart.  Hopefully moog will ship a correctly boxed part this time.  Still another week until it ships......hopefully.

[m in sc]

rockauto. just sayin. 

[Wantabeach]

Well.....it’s fixed. The cold bearings slide right in. The left side just dropped right in so I did not even hammer; that was strange actually.  So i just assemble it and it worked.  I did not see where the Kawasaki manual suggest freezing the bearings and other details that the Clymer manual suggested. When we installed it the first time, I thought we needed to bottom out the left bearing which I’m sure pushed the right bearing over a bit and caused the problem. There is a little slack between the bearing and circlip.

So all’s well that ends well. I really appreciate everyone’s help. We have really learned a lot from everyone on the forum.

Thank you so much!
Paul.