Author Topic: Running issue and pet c*** screen  (Read 1843 times)

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Offline bldoink

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Running issue and pet c*** screen
« on: June 06, 2012, 12:41:07 am »
02 C-10
OK, I've had a nagging problem for a good while. Ever since I've had the bike actually. The thing runs great most of the time. However, after it gets hot and I shut it off for a medium amount of time it runs like crap at low rpm. It stutters and misses. If I stop briefly it doesn't do it and if I let it sit for an hour it doesn't do it. Any amount of time in between and it will run like crap until I can get the RPMs up. the throttle advance helps some in those situations and it will usually clear after I get back out and run at highway speeds. I figure something is getting hot.

I have been running with a fuel filter, as the P.O. had one and I get flakes in it. I went to a new bigger less restrictive filter but same story.

In an effort to eliminate the need for a filter I have drained the tank. I expected to see a lot of rust but it actually looks good for an 02. I will flush the tank and probably do a  carb cleaner flush and then a quick citric acid soak. New fuel line ordered from Murf's.

The filter screen is intact. However, I notice that at the base it's bowed in slightly on one side where it goes into the petcock. I assume this is where the flakes are getting through. I have so far been unable to remove the screen from the petcock. I was hoping someone would know how to get it off without destroying it. I'm considering melting part of an old weed wacker fuel tank and smearing some of it into the gap where the screen is bowed. Thoughts?

Also, the screen has a very small round hole at the very top that looks like it's supposed to be there. What is it's function and is it necessary?

Thanks for any assistance. This thing runs great when it runs great. I want it to run great all of the time. The carbs have been to Steve's spa.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 01:01:08 am by bldoink »

Online JimBob

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2012, 10:37:50 pm »
Have you cleaned the carbs?

My knowledge of the Connie isn't great yet (bought my first a week ago), but I know it uses the typical bike carb which uses a slide and diaphragm. If the slide sticks for any reason it will cause one cylinder to act funny. If a diaphragm has a hole, vacuum can't operate it correctly.

I'm only looking at the carb because the description pretty much eliminates other issues.

You need 3 things for an engine to run:
1. Fuel - well, you're clearly getting enough if it runs fine once you get it to higher RPM. (so, are you SURE it's running fine at upper RPM?)

2. Spark - just like #1, if spark were an issue it would be worse at higher RPM/load

3. Air - really the other side of fuel, and the only thing we can't say the engine is getting just fine. If a carb isn't working right, it could restrict air for that cylinder (and fuel for it too).

If you pull the plugs you can compare the color of them - if one isn't getting enough air/fuel, its color (the color of the ceramic portion that goes in the engine) may be different (because it would be running lean...this typically shows as a lighter colored plug). Do this right after a ride - pull in and immediately shutoff engine. If you do it after cold start they all may reflect running rich (dark plug).

Sometimes vacuum leaks can cause poor performance at idle/low RPM but not seem to at higher RPM- this is because the additional air it can pull in is a greater percentage of the total required at low RPM - higher RPM will mask the leak both because the leak provides a smaller percentage of the air required, and the internal momentum of the engine/other cylinders.

If this was my bike, I'd look for vacuum leaks first. As my Dad (a 20 year Flight Engineer, and an auto mechanic for 20 after that) would say - "If all else is equal, start with the simple, easy, cheap things first". Sort of a K.I.S.S/Occam's Razor approach to fixin' stuff.

Offline Zorlac

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2012, 12:14:57 am »
On an 02 a new petcock isn't a bad idea, I used this goop in the screen holder gap.
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Offline ron203

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2012, 01:38:42 am »
Replace the petcock before you "need" to and you'll never know if you "needed" to. Perfect. Preventative Maintenance Prevents Problems.  Think about it... Same thing with fuel line. Replace it (it's cheap) before you "need" to. You'll never know if you "should" have. That's the idea. Empty and drain the tank. Was there water and stuff in there? If you didn't see it, maybe not. Did you really want to find it out the hard way? Nah.

A non-event of mechanical failure is what you are working toward with PM. But of course, you can wait until a failure occurs and have all the fun of "fixing it." 

Spend the money (or not.) Just the like old Goodwrench commercial, "Pay now or pay later."
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2012, 01:45:53 am »
either one or more carb is trying to overflow and the bike runs poorly til you've cleared the cylinder, or the ignition is breaking down. A failing igniter will act as you described, but eventually it will get worse even at lower temps / less running time - Steve
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Offline JDM

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2012, 01:32:00 pm »
Is your inline filter out where it can some cool air?  it could be vapor-lock.  it also common for a coil to brake down when it get's hot, You can get a igniter off E-bay I carry an extra  and stick coils from Toney T. it's a good upgrade.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/04-Kawasaki-Concours-ZG1000-1000-IGNITER-CDI-IGNITOR-IGNITION-MODULE-/130711700654?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e6f0644ae&vxp=mtr#ht_4781wt_1159

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2012, 03:19:10 pm »
I had issues with the fuel filter(s) causing vapor lock but that was always a complete  shut down when the carbs would go completely dry. You can see the problem with filters with clear gas lines. Once the float needles shut off the fuel flow to the carb bowls  they leak air and you can see the bubbles rising up the fuel line and collecting in the fuel filter. Without the filter they go up into the gas tank and cannot cause vapor lock.
Going to a larger filter and/or larger fuel lines made that problem even worse. You maybe experiencing a partial block which by your description is the most likely problem. Time rectifies temporary vapor lock issues.

You may have a tank venting issue causing extra tank  pressure forcing extra fuel past the float needles. Make sure those lines are not pinched.
Get rid of the filter first. That will eliminate any form of vapor locking. I would check for vacuum leaks too.  Those caps rot and leak a lot.
Get over flow tubes fast.  Did you get them installed when your carbs were sent to Steve? I hope so. How long ago were they done?
If you dont have overflow tubes you could have an issue with extra fuel in the cylinder due to either float needles not stopping the flow when they should due to dirt in the seat  or over pressure from the tank. Either way  without overflow tubes your flirting with disaster.
Do a search for Hydro lock.
I dont know about ignitor issues nor this little hole at the top of the screen.
Just to be safe I would order a whole new petcock. It comes with a new screen from Murphs. That will fix any issues with your screen and you no longer need a filter.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 03:36:59 pm by Daytona_Mike »
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Online JimBob

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2012, 07:22:25 pm »
either one or more carb is trying to overflow and the bike runs poorly til you've cleared the cylinder, or the ignition is breaking down. A failing igniter will act as you described, but eventually it will get worse even at lower temps / less running time - Steve

I thought igniter at first too, BUT, the symptoms don't match. An ignitor when failing either dies completely (so no spark/no start), or fails when it heats. Since the symptoms as described say its fine if constant running, its probably not the ignitor, since constant running would produce the greatest heat soak-so it should break down MORE with longer run time.

Still, I'd put ignitor on the list after carb/fuel/vacuum issues were ruled out.


Offline JDM

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2012, 09:26:14 pm »
On an 02 a new petcock isn't a bad idea, I used this goop in the screen holder gap.

 Do you still have the solenoid va on your bike as back up?

Offline Zorlac

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2012, 11:42:53 pm »
On an 02 a new petcock isn't a bad idea, I used this goop in the screen holder gap.
Do you still have the solenoid va on your bike as back up?
Absolutely, guess it works OK too, no hydrolock so far!  ;)
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Offline JDM

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2012, 02:34:18 am »
On an 02 a new petcock isn't a bad idea, I used this goop in the screen holder gap.
Do you still have the solenoid va on your bike as back up?
Absolutely, guess it works OK too, no hydrolock so far!  ;)


Same here, around 7or8 years. 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 02:36:09 am by JDM »

Offline Stealth Connie

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Re: Running issue and pet c*** screen
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2017, 11:51:40 pm »
Have you cleaned the carbs?

My knowledge of the Connie isn't great yet (bought my first a week ago), but I know it uses the typical bike carb which uses a slide and diaphragm. If the slide sticks for any reason it will cause one cylinder to act funny. If a diaphragm has a hole, vacuum can't operate it correctly.

I'm only looking at the carb because the description pretty much eliminates other issues.

You need 3 things for an engine to run:
1. Fuel - well, you're clearly getting enough if it runs fine once you get it to higher RPM. (so, are you SURE it's running fine at upper RPM?)

2. Spark - just like #1, if spark were an issue it would be worse at higher RPM/load

3. Air - really the other side of fuel, and the only thing we can't say the engine is getting just fine. If a carb isn't working right, it could restrict air for that cylinder (and fuel for it too).

If you pull the plugs you can compare the color of them - if one isn't getting enough air/fuel, its color (the color of the ceramic portion that goes in the engine) may be different (because it would be running lean...this typically shows as a lighter colored plug). Do this right after a ride - pull in and immediately shutoff engine. If you do it after cold start they all may reflect running rich (dark plug).

Sometimes vacuum leaks can cause poor performance at idle/low RPM but not seem to at higher RPM- this is because the additional air it can pull in is a greater percentage of the total required at low RPM - higher RPM will mask the leak both because the leak provides a smaller percentage of the air required, and the internal momentum of the engine/other cylinders.

If this was my bike, I'd look for vacuum leaks first. As my Dad (a 20 year Flight Engineer, and an auto mechanic for 20 after that) would say - "If all else is equal, start with the simple, easy, cheap things first". Sort of a K.I.S.S/Occam's Razor approach to fixin' stuff.

I rebuilt my carbs after bike had sat almost 10 months (I know...I'm ashamed).  I'm not SISF, but I thought I did a decent job rebuilding them. Heck, I was impressed it even ran, considering I COMPLETELY disassembled EVERY LITTLE bolt, spring, gasket, o-ring, diaphram on all 4 carbs.   

Anyway, get back on bike, still runs rough...Just about to pull the carbs again (or set fire to the bike) when I decided to hit the FORUM for some tips, since you guys have always proven correct in the past.  Anyway, I came across a post, that was rather um...HEATED, about carb rebuilds, settings and such.   

SISF said something to the effect that "Too many people go straight to the carbs, when often it's something else, in the process screw up the carbs by tweaking...LOOK AT EVERYTHING ELSE BEFORE TOUCHING CARBS"

Turns out, even thought the carb to intake boots were a snug fit, I never tightened the clamps, and they were all sucking by..quite a bit! I could hear each one stop whistling as I tightened them with it running (to make sure that's what I was hearing).

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