Author Topic: Smoking headlamp connection  (Read 9186 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 2linby

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3711
  • I rode today, did you?
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 5539
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2011, 10:20:37 pm »
The saga continues. I removed the headlamp switch and two wire solder connections had "fused" together. This is why both filaments came on at the same time regardless of switch position.


I will resolder and see if this fixes the issue, but I also decided to remove and open up the J-Box


My question is if the headlamp rellay is shot where can I get another and which one is it?  As pictured the left, center or right. They all seem to be the same type of relay.

Backside of J-box


A little discoloration but all connections are solid.

So anyone?  TIA!

Thanks!


"2linby" Get it? "Tooling by" "Everything is simple, but nothing is easy".
Ex NWAD, AAD, COG #5539, IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor, Mentor 2001 Sonic Blue  166K and counting!
http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BBG)
http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip

Offline 2linby

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3711
  • I rode today, did you?
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 5539
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2011, 10:50:38 pm »
Fixed!!!  :)

Apparently the prolonged use of a "higher watttage bulb"  (I thought it was a 100w/80w  but it really was a 100w/130w YIKES!) As soon as I find the guy who put a bulb like that in my bike I'll, I'll, I'll..... errrr......... I'll stop the dumb a** from doing it again!

But getting back to the J-Box, so where can I get those relays, just in case????

Thanks again for all comments and suggestions. This was a truly weird one!  But hey it's me!    :-[
"2linby" Get it? "Tooling by" "Everything is simple, but nothing is easy".
Ex NWAD, AAD, COG #5539, IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor, Mentor 2001 Sonic Blue  166K and counting!
http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BBG)
http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip

Offline Rob

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2011, 10:52:46 pm »
Guy was selling them at one time.  And isn't Larry Buck doing j-box rebuilds these days?  You could probably get some spares from him.  I believe I still have some kicking around too.

Offline Rev Ryder

  • Officer
  • I Need a Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 8800
  • We came. We saw. We Concours-ed.
    • Presbychuck
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 7235
  • Membership Level: Executive Director
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2011, 11:18:49 pm »
Holy Super Nova Batman! 100/130 is... counting.... taking off shoes... a lot of watts, Watson.

Glad you found your problem child before you had a serious meltdown.  I would venture the light relay was being taxed mighty heavily.  If another isn't readily available you could always swap it with another that's less used until you can get one.  They're all interchangeable.  Don;t know if Guy still has any, but he was handing them out like candy a year or two ago.  Seems like someone else posted up last year as to having a supply as well, but I cannot recall who it was. Sorry.  If push comes to shove, I have a spare functioning J-box I could lend ya to keep her running until you can do repairs.  Let me know.
Fortis non Ferox
 Shafties Can't Wheelie

Offline norm-9688

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1536
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 7011
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2011, 11:46:29 pm »
Quote
Smoking headlamp connection

At least its not drinking Bob !! :-[ :rotflmao:

Offline 2linby

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3711
  • I rode today, did you?
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 5539
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2011, 11:51:46 pm »
Quote
Smoking headlamp connection

At least its not drinking Bob !! :-[ :rotflmao:

Not the Bong show Norm!..... It's the Gong show!  Geez!  I really thought I had a 100/80 bulb in there as it has been on the bike for at least a year and maybe more. I guess those "heavy duty Big K wires" finally pushed enough heat up the food chain to soften up the soldering at the switch.  Why the fuse did not blow is a total mystery to me. I mean a 50 amp fuse shold have blown rightaway......right?   :-\
 
It was only a 10 amp fuse ;)  But it should have blown before the wires got that hot. 
Anyway I'll be monitoring it vwey vwey carefullwe...........
"2linby" Get it? "Tooling by" "Everything is simple, but nothing is easy".
Ex NWAD, AAD, COG #5539, IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor, Mentor 2001 Sonic Blue  166K and counting!
http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BBG)
http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip

Offline WillyP

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6130
  • Live Free Or Die
    • Suncook Carpentry
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 8799
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2011, 01:03:41 am »
Well, that is what a fuse is for...  :-[
Smart people look like crazy people to stupid people.
pics

Offline duffy

  • Mini Bike
  • **
  • Posts: 115
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 8276
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2011, 09:53:11 am »
Holy Super Nova Batman! 100/130 is... counting.... taking off shoes... a lot of watts.

HOLY Sit....!!!!  That's 230 Watts of power (Both filaments were "ON") running thru a connection/wire designed for a max of 100 Watts  hmmmm, let's see.... 12 Volts (nominal)... 230 Watts....=  19 AMPS.... :-\   :-\  probably your battery was at more like 14.5 Volts... so, the fuse was ONLY seeing 15.8 AMPS draining thru that poor little ground wire.... I'd get overheated too..  2lindby.. glad you got it figgered out.. you could have had a nuclear "melt-down" (not good)
2002 C10 "Charlotte"

Offline SteveJ.

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 5856
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 5603
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2011, 12:43:41 pm »
It's time to strongly consider a headlight bypass harness, either from Murphs' or make your own. It will keep the heavy current away from the anemic Ma Kaw wiring, including the J-box and dimmer sw.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
Tick Tock, baby (Ironbuttal)
Steve J  Tavares, FL, one of the Floriduh Steves
'15 Versys650LT, '98 KLR650, (back home), '99 C-10, 234k miles sold

Offline Rev Ryder

  • Officer
  • I Need a Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 8800
  • We came. We saw. We Concours-ed.
    • Presbychuck
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 7235
  • Membership Level: Executive Director
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2011, 01:16:09 pm »
It's time to strongly consider a headlight bypass harness, either from Murphs' or make your own. It will keep the heavy current away from the anemic Ma Kaw wiring, including the J-box and dimmer sw.
+1
I'm surprised the switch held up as it did with that monster stadium light bulb in there. LOL 
Just another thing to show how tough Connie can be I reckon.  In any case, a HD headlamp harness with relay/s will take the load off COnnie's somewhat puny headlamp circuit and get ya more light with the a smaller bulb.
Fortis non Ferox
 Shafties Can't Wheelie

Offline BDF

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3679
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2011, 02:07:25 pm »
Seeing as you are using such a high wattage bulb anyway, you would probably be better off going to an HID. They will draw far less power, produce more light, last longer (far longer) and produce a lot less heat than such a high wattage tungsten bulb. Because they use even less wattage than stock (mine draw 42 watts) they are fine to use with stock wiring and switches. They are illegal but no more so than a 100 watt halogen bulb is. I think you would find it to be a great improvement overall.

Brian




Not the Bong show Norm!..... It's the Gong show!  Geez!  I really thought I had a 100/80 bulb in there as it has been on the bike for at least a year and maybe more. I guess those "heavy duty Big K wires" finally pushed enough heat up the food chain to soften up the soldering at the switch.  Why the fuse did not blow is a total mystery to me. I mean a 50 amp fuse shold have blown rightaway......right?   :-\
 
It was only a 10 amp fuse ;)  But it should have blown before the wires got that hot. 
Anyway I'll be monitoring it vwey vwey carefullwe...........
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline Centex

  • Moped
  • **
  • Posts: 222
    • Central Motorcycle Roadracing Association
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 9476
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2011, 02:15:02 pm »
My copy of the 2003 "Common Concours Parts Numbers" webpage shows the J-Box Relays as AROMAT: JS1E-12V  or  NTE: R46-5D3-12.


When I Google the Aromat number I get to this recommended 'modern' replacement:

http://www.onlinecomponents.com/panasonic-ew-aromat_js1-12v-f.html?p=10557606&pref=Repl

This is just FYI from my Connie data archives, I've NOT confirmed any of this first hand for suitability.  You should probably check the linked data sheet closely to verify that the pin spacing is the same as on your J-Box.

Good Luck!
Alan in Central Texas
2004 Pearl Black Connie
2001 Ducati M750

Offline Paulie

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1230
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 4561
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2011, 02:19:56 pm »
Eureka! My SWAG that the 100/130 was too toasty...rat on the $. Heh... :nananana:

Glad yer lit up agin, son.

Offline GF-in-CA

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1360
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2011, 02:25:58 pm »
My copy of the 2003 "Common Concours Parts Numbers" webpage shows the J-Box Relays as AROMAT: JS1E-12V  or  NTE: R46-5D3-12.


When I Google the Aromat number I get to this recommended 'modern' replacement:

http://www.onlinecomponents.com/panasonic-ew-aromat_js1-12v-f.html?p=10557606&pref=Repl

This is just FYI from my Connie data archives, I've NOT confirmed any of this first hand for suitability.  You should probably check the linked data sheet closely to verify that the pin spacing is the same as on your J-Box.

Good Luck!


Mouser sells the NTE relay:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NTE/R46-5D3-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvHT3vBLZwimkzlZu7DT23Slyors2hSN9I%3D

They also sell the same relay with a higher current capacity

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NTE/R46-5D12-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvxO7XFMojgsFz7Hc5mk%252bPI
Gary F.

1998 ZGX1100
Central Valley California

Offline SteveJ.

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 5856
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 5603
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2011, 02:37:06 pm »
Seeing as you are using such a high wattage bulb anyway, you would probably be better off going to an HID. They will draw far less power, produce more light, last longer (far longer) and produce a lot less heat than such a high wattage tungsten bulb. Because they use even less wattage than stock (mine draw 42 watts) they are fine to use with stock wiring and switches. They are illegal but no more so than a 100 watt halogen bulb is. I think you would find it to be a great improvement overall.

Brian

From first hand knowledge, I would argue that longevity point. In addition, my pair of German made Hella ff200 Halogens totally drowned out the ChinaCrap 55w HID, as witnessed by several COGgers up in Talladega last year for the Vintage Fest at Barber. YMMV.

Keep something in mind on the HID lights, when they fail, you will have total darkness until you pull over and repair. Some of the roads I ride on would not be fun in total darkness at 70mph.

My .02.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
Tick Tock, baby (Ironbuttal)
Steve J  Tavares, FL, one of the Floriduh Steves
'15 Versys650LT, '98 KLR650, (back home), '99 C-10, 234k miles sold

Offline Slybones

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 6953
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2011, 03:37:48 pm »
From first hand knowledge, I would argue that longevity point. In addition, my pair of German made Hella ff200 Halogens totally drowned out the ChinaCrap 55w HID, as witnessed by several COGgers up in Talladega last year for the Vintage Fest at Barber. YMMV.

Keep something in mind on the HID lights, when they fail, you will have total darkness until you pull over and repair. Some of the roads I ride on would not be fun in total darkness at 70mph.

My .02.

I think he is referring to a HID headlight versus a Halogen headlight. I bet your FF200's drown out either one. Hardly a reason to say HID headlight is not better than a Halogen headlight.

And I a betting that when a Halogen headlight fails you get total darkness until you pull over and repair. Assuming you have no other source of light, like FF200s. And if you have some aux lighting, like FF200's for example, then you can get by with a headlight failure regardless of which headlight style you have.
2003 Concours, 121K
2005 GL1800ABS, 52K
COG #6953, IBA 28004

Offline BDF

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3679
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2011, 03:41:30 pm »
I do not doubt your experience with Hella's vs. stock lamp housings but it really does not apply here. I was comparing two different light sources in the same housing, and there are numerous benefits to using HID as a light source compared with such a high wattage halogen lamp.

You are right about the issue of the lamp failing though, I had not considered the fact that a C-10 only has one headlight and an HID failure means a total headlight failure. That is an important point and a very valid safety point. Thanks for pointing it out.

Brian


From first hand knowledge, I would argue that longevity point. In addition, my pair of German made Hella ff200 Halogens totally drowned out the ChinaCrap 55w HID, as witnessed by several COGgers up in Talladega last year for the Vintage Fest at Barber. YMMV.

Keep something in mind on the HID lights, when they fail, you will have total darkness until you pull over and repair. Some of the roads I ride on would not be fun in total darkness at 70mph.

My .02.
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline BDF

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3679
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2011, 03:47:13 pm »
Steve does bring up a good safety point about replacing halogen lighting with a bi- xenon HID; it is extremely unlikely that both filaments of a H4 (or any filament lamp) would fail at the same time so when one does fail the other one should work long enough to replace the lamp. HID bi- xenons on the other hand only have one light source for both high and low beam so a failure of the lamp is a total headlight failure. In addition, a failure of the HID wiring or ballast is also a full headlight failure.

I had not considered that there is a single headlight housing on a C-10 but it would make me re- think using HID lighting on any single headlight vehicle for exactly the reason Steve stated.

Brian


I think he is referring to a HID headlight versus a Halogen headlight. I bet your FF200's drown out either one. Hardly a reason to say HID headlight is not better than a Halogen headlight.

And I a betting that when a Halogen headlight fails you get total darkness until you pull over and repair. Assuming you have no other source of light, like FF200s. And if you have some aux lighting, like FF200's for example, then you can get by with a headlight failure regardless of which headlight style you have.
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline smithr1

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 5253
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 6197
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2011, 06:06:53 pm »
This is quoted from an email sent to the listserve by Dan Sullivan...

The original relays are NEC, p/n MR301-N13 (at least they were in '91).
  Back in the day, I picked up three MR301-12HUSL from Mouser.com, as
those were the higher capacity replacements that Guy was using (although
I could be wrong - the 12HUSL is a 12V 10A relay according to NEC - but
then NEC also says the MR301 was either a 5A or 10A relay, so it could
be the N13 was a 5A.  Who knows?  I haven't found the spec on the N13).

I replaced one relay (the one with the bad solder joints) and kept it.
It's probably still good.  Dammit, I had the box open and 3 new relays
and there was NO WAY I was gonna just fix the solder and throw it back
in!  NO WAY!!!  No further problems after that.

Mouser says the 12HUSL is obsolete - the whole MR301 line has been
discontinued by the manufacturer.

BUT, have heart, there are suggested replacements.  Mouser suggests the
NEC EQ1 or KB series.  The NEC EQ1 series has the same pin layout as the
MR301 and carries a contact switching current of 30A max. at 16V.  It'll
carry 40A 12V at 25C.  No more complaints about undersized relays, eh?
These sound similar to what Larry describes.

There are 4 EQ1 relays listed. http://www.worldproducts.com/pdfs/eq1.pdf
  EQ1-31000S would be a good candidate.  Mouser.com wants $1.68 for one.
 
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NEC/EQ1-31000S/?qs=nRZJSAML2hvw6IAy970alA%3d%3d


At that price, somebody else can do the legwork on the KB series....

Get 3 for good luck.  You probably don't need any, but I think they're
like an umbrella.

Have fun.
---
Bob Smith (smithr)
Austin, Texas baby!
2010 Kawasaki Concours, Midnight Blue
COG 6197, CDA 107

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 9471
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2011, 09:36:26 pm »
fyi
the relays that Guy was using were "Song Chuan" and had a 15a rating...
I believe he shipped all his leftovers down to Larry Buck, who was re-building boxes. iIassume he has used them all up by now, and purchased more, not sure who's or what amperage.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline 2linby

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3711
  • I rode today, did you?
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 5539
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2011, 10:50:20 pm »
Everyone, Thanks for all the info on the relays etc........  I will be planning on thinking about either the Murphs harness and or re-thinking the newer style "hooded" HID lighting system. I do have two set of FF50s on the bike so if a HID bulb goes I am still in good shape.

All in all this was a very interesting experience as I rode with the bike this way for over a year and maybe longer without nary an issue. It must have gone bad on my last long ride back from the Ride the Ribbon trip. I rode from Prineville, OR  straight through to Winston, OR (home)about 220 miles without stopping for anything other than a couple traffic lights and at the top of McKenzie pass to drop off three tag along Harley riders. It was in the high 90's for temps and perhaps it was the proverbal straw that broken the camels back.

Anyway I am glad to have found it and look forward to not smelling burnt rubber and plastic form underneath the fairing!  Hey at least I now know what it does smell like!

Thanks again!
"2linby" Get it? "Tooling by" "Everything is simple, but nothing is easy".
Ex NWAD, AAD, COG #5539, IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor, Mentor 2001 Sonic Blue  166K and counting!
http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BBG)
http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip

Offline Rev Ryder

  • Officer
  • I Need a Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 8800
  • We came. We saw. We Concours-ed.
    • Presbychuck
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 7235
  • Membership Level: Executive Director
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2011, 02:30:39 am »
fyi
the relays that Guy was using were "Song Chuan" and had a 15a rating...
Ev...ry...bo...dy Song Chuan tonight, everybody have fun tonight.  I personally rate the entire 80's decade at less than 15ma.  :D

Dang, now I've got that Wang Chung thing in my head.  OUT! OUT!   :-[
Fortis non Ferox
 Shafties Can't Wheelie

Offline 2linby

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3711
  • I rode today, did you?
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 5539
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2011, 03:14:57 am »
fyi
the relays that Guy was using were "Song Chuan" and had a 15a rating...
Ev...ry...bo...dy Song Chuan tonight, everybody have fun tonight.  I personally rate the entire 80's decade at less than 15ma.  :D

Dang, now I've got that Wang Chung thing in my head.  OUT! OUT!   :-[

Welll then Play that funky music white boy!  ;)
"2linby" Get it? "Tooling by" "Everything is simple, but nothing is easy".
Ex NWAD, AAD, COG #5539, IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor, Mentor 2001 Sonic Blue  166K and counting!
http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BBG)
http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip

Offline Cap'n Bob

  • GOLD STAR
  • *******
  • Posts: 10952
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 7134
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Smoking headlamp connection
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2011, 07:59:33 am »
Thanks Rev. Now I'll be singing freakin' Wang Chung all day!  :))