Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours Discussion (C10 / ZG1000 / 1000GTR) => Concours C10 / ZG1000 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: 2linby on September 27, 2011, 12:22:39 am

Title: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 27, 2011, 12:22:39 am
Riding this weekend and I detect a burning plastic odor coming from the fairing. Pull over and my headlamp connector and wiring are burning up.  I disconnect the headlamp and ride home. Thinking the connector is shot I replace it and the same thing is happening again. Ground is glowing hot!  Changed bulbs and same thing.

It is wired per diagram high/lo and ground. Simple simon.

High beam wire: Red/Blue dash.
Lo beam: Red/Yellow dash
Ground Black/Yellow dash

Any thoughts before I start spending money? TIA!
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 27, 2011, 01:33:38 am
[url]http://search.coleman.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=461&query=lanterns&hiword=LANTER%20LANTERN%20LANTERNE%20LANTERNES%20lanterns%20[/url] ([url]http://search.coleman.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=461&query=lanterns&hiword=LANTER%20LANTERN%20LANTERNE%20LANTERNES%20lanterns%20[/url])

 :-*


And this is beneficial exactly how?  :38:
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: WillyP on September 27, 2011, 01:53:17 am
Extremely UN-beneificial, I would say...

Anyway, sounds like you have a short somewhere, you need to get out a meter and track it down.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Nosmo on September 27, 2011, 03:55:21 am
You're right, it wasn't helpful at all and I apologize.  It seemed funny at the time, but obviously wasn't.  Gone.

Considering your problem:

I'm not THAT good with electrical, but it would seem that high current flow through the ground wire is the problem,  and a short circuit would fit that scenario.  Melted connector means heat which means high current flow or high resistance.  Per the wiring diagram I see in my Kawasaki manual, the high beam wire is colored R/Y, low is shown as R/BK, and ground is BK/Y, and is the common ground with the rest of the lamps.  I'm thinking that if the short was inside the connector you would have found/fixed it when changing the connector.  Also, if voltage was bleeding from the power wires to ground there, it would not be available to the bulb elements, so the headlamp should be dim or inop.  I'm wondering if perhaps the handlebar switch (or it's associated wires) is faulty, and applying power to both high and low beam elements at the same time, giving so much current flow that the ground wire can't handle it?  Question:  Do you have a modified headlight wiring system with the relay and the direct power wire to the light that bypasses the normal junction box relay/fuse system?  I know your bike has a lot of mods, perhaps there is another system affecting it.  Might be something there to look at.  If the headlight fuse isn't blowing, then it doesn't sound like the power wires (either hi or low) are seeing excessive current draw.  If power was entering the ground system at some point, then it would cancel out the voltage being applied to the normal power-"in" side of the lamp and there would be no potential across the lamp element, so no lights.  Does your headlight ground wire still tie into the rest of the ground wire system or is it a stand-alone ground?  If it is still common to the rest of the lamp grounds, then a problem there (poor or no ground connection) would cause trouble with the rest of the lamps.

No true answer there, just some items I would check if I was there with the bike in hand.  Hope it helps.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Cap'n Bob on September 27, 2011, 07:43:47 am
Why not start with the simple question first. Did you change your bulb to a higher wattage bulb?
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: John_Atkinson on September 27, 2011, 12:26:12 pm
2linby, if you are using a higher-than-normal bulb, I have been told that a ceramic socket is A Good Thing. I ised to run an 80/100 and found that the OEM socket tended not to handle the heat very well.....
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 27, 2011, 05:21:33 pm
Why not start with the simple question first. Did you change your bulb to a higher wattage bulb?

Years ago with a heavy duty socket. This just started out of the blue. Totally without rhyme or reason.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Slybones on September 27, 2011, 08:26:49 pm
I vote for a short of some kind on the low/high beam side, maybe the two together so both beams are on, but a short such that all the power drawn by the bulb itself and what ever its shorted to, the ground is having to sync the current for all of it.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 27, 2011, 10:34:08 pm
I vote for a short of some kind on the low/high beam side, maybe the two together so both beams are on, but a short such that all the power drawn by the bulb itself and what ever its shorted to, the ground is having to sync the current for all of it.

Yes both filaments are lit, so both are drawing power. Switching from lo to hi just "switches the filament burning order". But both are on. So a short it must be. Now to find it!
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Cap'n Bob on September 27, 2011, 10:48:24 pm
I would check the dimmer switch. Both the high and low beam wires are powered from the dimmer switch. The problem has to be either the switch or the wires shorted (rubbed) between the dimmer switch and the bulb. The dimmer switch switches between hi and low beam by providing power to the headlight (power coming from the headlight relay in the junction box after the starter has been engaged with the key on). So the only place you could provide power to both is from the dimmer switch, or the hi and low beam wires being shorted (rubbed together bare) after the dimmer switch, going to the headlight.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Hogboy on September 28, 2011, 12:35:25 am
I hate it when people make fun of yer predicament eh?  http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm (http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm)
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 28, 2011, 12:54:46 am
I would check the dimmer switch. Both the high and low beam wires are powered from the dimmer switch. The problem has to be either the switch or the wires shorted (rubbed) between the dimmer switch and the bulb. The dimmer switch switches between hi and low beam by providing power to the headlight (power coming from the headlight relay in the junction box after the starter has been engaged with the key on). So the only place you could provide power to both is from the dimmer switch, or the hi and low beam wires being shorted (rubbed together bare) after the dimmer switch, going to the headlight.

Yeah the wiring diagram leaves little else other than perhaps the wires being frayed somewhere else.  Full report to follow.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: BDF on September 28, 2011, 12:54:51 am
Using the high output bulb for a long time might have burned and fused the contacts of a headlight relay together. That would cause both filaments to be on all the time. All the current for both filaments is going through the ground line so that is why that contact is burning up- a small resistance at the contacts between the socket and the headlamp bulb (which is normal) would cause a lot of heat given the large amount of current flowing through the connection. You have a problem 'upstream' of the headlight socket and bulb. Again, I would check the low beam and high beam relays, especially the high beam relays to make sure they open when they are off- odds one of them is fused shut. It is not a short but it will have the effect of keeping the filament on all the time regardless of the actual switch position (high beam / low beam switch).

Unfortunately I do not have nor have I ever had a C-10 so I cannot guide you as to where the relays are or how they are wired. Someone with some electrical knowledge and a C-10 wiring schematic will have to jump in. Besides, we are on the opposite coasts, or two days away from each other, or I would gladly take a look.  ;D

Brian




Yes both filaments are lit, so both are drawing power. Switching from lo to hi just "switches the filament burning order". But both are on. So a short it must be. Now to find it!
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 28, 2011, 01:00:20 am

Unfortunately I do not have nor have I ever had a C-10 so I cannot guide you as to where the relays are or how they are wired. Someone with some electrical knowledge and a C-10 wiring schematic will have to jump in. Besides, we are on the opposite coasts, or two days away from each other, or I would gladly take a look.  ;D

Brian



BDF Thanks, but according to the diagram there are no relays. Anyone know if there are and if there are relays where they can be found?  Two days away!  You are a card!  ;)


Yes both filaments are lit, so both are drawing power. Switching from lo to hi just "switches the filament burning order". But both are on. So a short it must be. Now to find it!
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: BDF on September 28, 2011, 02:12:48 am
See? I told you I was not familiar with the C-10. The C-14 has relays for each 'beam' but they also have two headlights. The C-10 must just use the high beam switch for the high beam- I would check the high beam switch first for the same reason mentioned earlier... the contacts in the switch may be fused closed rendering the switch stuck in the 'on' position.

Brian



BDF Thanks, but according to the diagram there are no relays. Anyone know if there are and if there are relays where they can be found?  Two days away!  You are a card!  ;)


Yes both filaments are lit, so both are drawing power. Switching from lo to hi just "switches the filament burning order". But both are on. So a short it must be. Now to find it!
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Cap'n Bob on September 28, 2011, 07:59:50 am
Like I said, and verified by the schematic. The headlight gets it's power from the headlight relay in the junction box. Once the starter has been engaged, that relay then supplies power to the dimmer switch. (there are no hi/low beam relays used on a C10, that are used on a C14)

The dimmer switch then selects which path the power will be directed (hi or low beam). Power is then fed to the bulb via the appropriate headlight wires (hi or low beam) going to the appropriate filament. The only way to get both bulbs to light is to either have a bad dimmer switch that is providing 12 volts to both filaments at the same time (thus over heating the socket). Or the wires after the dimmer switch connecting the headlight socket, have to be rubbed and shorted together causing the same result. There is no other way to provide power to both filaments unless the wiring harness has been totally changed, deviating away from the OEM wiring.

Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 28, 2011, 12:17:12 pm
You are correct about the stock wiring Bob, but I've yet to see a C10 that couldn't be made to light both lamps simultaneously simply by moving the switch to the middle of its throw.  DAMHIKT IJK 

And many C10 riders have gone to Murph's or Tammy's wiring harness and now DO have relays for high and low beam and can add another dose of parts to the mix.  My first check would be the bulb itself to see if the problem is that simple. And he can always ride with the headlamp turned off until he can get it fixed.  I'm hoping that the burning hasn't already seriously damaged the headlamp harness.  That would stink.

EDIT TO ADD:
Re-reading I can see you already changed bulbs and made no difference.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Rob on September 28, 2011, 01:01:38 pm
Like I said, and verified by the schematic. The headlight gets it's power from the headlight relay in the junction box. Once the starter has been engaged, that relay then supplies power to the dimmer switch. (there are no hi/low beam relays used on a C10, that are used on a C14)

The dimmer switch then selects which path the power will be directed (hi or low beam). Power is then fed to the bulb via the appropriate headlight wires (hi or low beam) going to the appropriate filament. The only way to get both bulbs to light is to either have a bad dimmer switch that is providing 12 volts to both filaments at the same time (thus over heating the socket). Or the wires after the dimmer switch connecting the headlight socket, have to be rubbed and shorted together causing the same result. There is no other way to provide power to both filaments unless the wiring harness has been totally changed, deviating away from the OEM wiring or Murph's replacement harness.

I think the cap'n is on the right track, your hi/low switch is the most likely culprit.  I believe I have a spare assembly that will work on your "newer" model if you need it.  Let me know, I'll shoot it down to you.

Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 28, 2011, 01:14:19 pm
Great offer Rob.  Kudos to ya.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: smithr1 on September 28, 2011, 05:29:55 pm
One thing to note is that weak connections tend to get hot and burn up.  You say you changed the socket but did you change the connections?  If the part that pushes onto the spade lugs of the bulb are not tight and there is a bit of corrosion then that spot will start to heat up with the current flow and it will run away with heat till something burns.
So you say the connecter burned but then you say you have the ceramic connector.  Both can not be true.  Ceramic does not burn.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Cap'n Bob on September 28, 2011, 05:34:52 pm
Yes I should have said in stock OEM form, there are no relays.


You are correct about the stock wiring Bob, but I've yet to see a C10 that couldn't be made to light both lamps simultaneously simply by moving the switch to the middle of its throw.  DAMHIKT IJK 

And many C10 riders have gone to Murph's or Tammy's wiring harness and now DO have relays for high and low beam and can add another dose of parts to the mix.  My first check would be the bulb itself to see if the problem is that simple. And he can always ride with the headlamp turned off until he can get it fixed.  I'm hoping that the burning hasn't already seriously damaged the headlamp harness.  That would stink.

EDIT TO ADD:
Re-reading I can see you already changed bulbs and made no difference.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 28, 2011, 05:38:35 pm
Yes I should have said in stock OEM form, there are no relays.


You are correct about the stock wiring Bob, but I've yet to see a C10 that couldn't be made to light both lamps simultaneously simply by moving the switch to the middle of its throw.  DAMHIKT IJK 

And many C10 riders have gone to Murph's or Tammy's wiring harness and now DO have relays for high and low beam and can add another dose of parts to the mix.  My first check would be the bulb itself to see if the problem is that simple. And he can always ride with the headlamp turned off until he can get it fixed.  I'm hoping that the burning hasn't already seriously damaged the headlamp harness.  That would stink.

EDIT TO ADD:
Re-reading I can see you already changed bulbs and made no difference.
I think about that stuff cuz I gots more relays than the Summer Olympics.   :))
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 28, 2011, 09:29:30 pm
debris or contaminants in the actual hi/lo switch, bridging the high and low to cause them to both burn...
yep, that would melt the wires, especially the ground, as it is now carrying 55w + 60w (115w total) . if you were running 80/100 NAPA bulb you'll really see smoke...(180w....wow....13-15 amps....) that would surely pop a fuse, problem is the fuse ain't on the "ground" side of the circuit.

disassemble and clean the switch.

you ain't running an old bike are you? with the emergency lighting system?
I am always curious what happens when one of those fail....but they are potted solid, and I have never seen one fail to date...
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Slybones on September 28, 2011, 09:33:16 pm
Why would it not pop a fuse back at the j-box. Dont have the wiring diagram right here in front of me, but thinking that the headlight relay in the j-box has a single power wire running to the headlight switch, and its only 2 wires from there, I would think back at the jbox positive side is still running that 13-15 amps and getting hot as well. Maybe the relay and stuff too. Isnt there a fuse back there?
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 28, 2011, 09:53:26 pm
it SHOULD pop the fuse, but the weak link is actually the point the ground wire connects to the bulb that will see the abuse....and melt...right before the fuse pops unfortunatly. The blade connection on the bulb is the big issue, it isn't a 'good' connection, just marginal, and not designed to carry much more than 8-9 amps without heating up, when it goes thru abuse cycles, the connection further degrades, dropping it's capability to carry current even more...voila hot spot.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 28, 2011, 10:20:37 pm
The saga continues. I removed the headlamp switch and two wire solder connections had "fused" together. This is why both filaments came on at the same time regardless of switch position.

(http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/49320/2430064550052071584S600x600Q85.jpg)

I will resolder and see if this fixes the issue, but I also decided to remove and open up the J-Box

(http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/19987/2607922850052071584S600x600Q85.jpg)

My question is if the headlamp rellay is shot where can I get another and which one is it?  As pictured the left, center or right. They all seem to be the same type of relay.

Backside of J-box

(http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/48427/2683583650052071584S600x600Q85.jpg)

A little discoloration but all connections are solid.

So anyone?  TIA!

Thanks!


Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 28, 2011, 10:50:38 pm
Fixed!!!  :)

Apparently the prolonged use of a "higher watttage bulb"  (I thought it was a 100w/80w  but it really was a 100w/130w YIKES!)  As soon as I find the guy who put a bulb like that in my bike I'll, I'll, I'll..... errrr......... I'll stop the dumb a** from doing it again!

But getting back to the J-Box, so where can I get those relays, just in case????

Thanks again for all comments and suggestions. This was a truly weird one!  But hey it's me!    :-[
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Rob on September 28, 2011, 10:52:46 pm
Guy was selling them at one time.  And isn't Larry Buck doing j-box rebuilds these days?  You could probably get some spares from him.  I believe I still have some kicking around too.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 28, 2011, 11:18:49 pm
Holy Super Nova Batman! 100/130 is... counting.... taking off shoes... a lot of watts, Watson.

Glad you found your problem child before you had a serious meltdown.  I would venture the light relay was being taxed mighty heavily.  If another isn't readily available you could always swap it with another that's less used until you can get one.  They're all interchangeable.  Don;t know if Guy still has any, but he was handing them out like candy a year or two ago.  Seems like someone else posted up last year as to having a supply as well, but I cannot recall who it was. Sorry.  If push comes to shove, I have a spare functioning J-box I could lend ya to keep her running until you can do repairs.  Let me know.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: norm-9688 on September 28, 2011, 11:46:29 pm
Quote
Smoking headlamp connection

At least its not drinking Bob !! :-[ :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 28, 2011, 11:51:46 pm
Quote
Smoking headlamp connection

At least its not drinking Bob !! :-[ :rotflmao:

Not the Bong show Norm!..... It's the Gong show!  Geez!  I really thought I had a 100/80 bulb in there as it has been on the bike for at least a year and maybe more. I guess those "heavy duty Big K wires" finally pushed enough heat up the food chain to soften up the soldering at the switch.  Why the fuse did not blow is a total mystery to me. I mean a 50 amp fuse shold have blown rightaway......right?   :-\
 
It was only a 10 amp fuse ;)  But it should have blown before the wires got that hot. 
Anyway I'll be monitoring it vwey vwey carefullwe...........
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: WillyP on September 29, 2011, 01:03:41 am
Well, that is what a fuse is for...  :-[
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: duffy on September 29, 2011, 09:53:11 am
Holy Super Nova Batman! 100/130 is... counting.... taking off shoes... a lot of watts.

HOLY Sit....!!!!  That's 230 Watts of power (Both filaments were "ON") running thru a connection/wire designed for a max of 100 Watts  hmmmm, let's see.... 12 Volts (nominal)... 230 Watts....=  19 AMPS.... :-\   :-\  probably your battery was at more like 14.5 Volts... so, the fuse was ONLY seeing 15.8 AMPS draining thru that poor little ground wire.... I'd get overheated too..  2lindby.. glad you got it figgered out.. you could have had a nuclear "melt-down" (not good)
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: SteveJ. on September 29, 2011, 12:43:41 pm
It's time to strongly consider a headlight bypass harness, either from Murphs' or make your own. It will keep the heavy current away from the anemic Ma Kaw wiring, including the J-box and dimmer sw.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 29, 2011, 01:16:09 pm
It's time to strongly consider a headlight bypass harness, either from Murphs' or make your own. It will keep the heavy current away from the anemic Ma Kaw wiring, including the J-box and dimmer sw.
+1
I'm surprised the switch held up as it did with that monster stadium light bulb in there. LOL 
Just another thing to show how tough Connie can be I reckon.  In any case, a HD headlamp harness with relay/s will take the load off COnnie's somewhat puny headlamp circuit and get ya more light with the a smaller bulb.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: BDF on September 29, 2011, 02:07:25 pm
Seeing as you are using such a high wattage bulb anyway, you would probably be better off going to an HID. They will draw far less power, produce more light, last longer (far longer) and produce a lot less heat than such a high wattage tungsten bulb. Because they use even less wattage than stock (mine draw 42 watts) they are fine to use with stock wiring and switches. They are illegal but no more so than a 100 watt halogen bulb is. I think you would find it to be a great improvement overall.

Brian




Not the Bong show Norm!..... It's the Gong show!  Geez!  I really thought I had a 100/80 bulb in there as it has been on the bike for at least a year and maybe more. I guess those "heavy duty Big K wires" finally pushed enough heat up the food chain to soften up the soldering at the switch.  Why the fuse did not blow is a total mystery to me. I mean a 50 amp fuse shold have blown rightaway......right?   :-\
 
It was only a 10 amp fuse ;)  But it should have blown before the wires got that hot. 
Anyway I'll be monitoring it vwey vwey carefullwe...........
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Centex on September 29, 2011, 02:15:02 pm
My copy of the 2003 "Common Concours Parts Numbers" webpage shows the J-Box Relays as AROMAT: JS1E-12V  or  NTE: R46-5D3-12.


When I Google the Aromat number I get to this recommended 'modern' replacement:

http://www.onlinecomponents.com/panasonic-ew-aromat_js1-12v-f.html?p=10557606&pref=Repl (http://www.onlinecomponents.com/panasonic-ew-aromat_js1-12v-f.html?p=10557606&pref=Repl)

This is just FYI from my Connie data archives, I've NOT confirmed any of this first hand for suitability.  You should probably check the linked data sheet closely to verify that the pin spacing is the same as on your J-Box.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Paulie on September 29, 2011, 02:19:56 pm
Eureka! My SWAG that the 100/130 was too toasty...rat on the $. Heh... :nananana:

Glad yer lit up agin, son.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: GF-in-CA on September 29, 2011, 02:25:58 pm
My copy of the 2003 "Common Concours Parts Numbers" webpage shows the J-Box Relays as AROMAT: JS1E-12V  or  NTE: R46-5D3-12.


When I Google the Aromat number I get to this recommended 'modern' replacement:

[url]http://www.onlinecomponents.com/panasonic-ew-aromat_js1-12v-f.html?p=10557606&pref=Repl[/url] ([url]http://www.onlinecomponents.com/panasonic-ew-aromat_js1-12v-f.html?p=10557606&pref=Repl[/url])

This is just FYI from my Connie data archives, I've NOT confirmed any of this first hand for suitability.  You should probably check the linked data sheet closely to verify that the pin spacing is the same as on your J-Box.

Good Luck!


Mouser sells the NTE relay:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NTE/R46-5D3-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvHT3vBLZwimkzlZu7DT23Slyors2hSN9I%3D (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NTE/R46-5D3-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvHT3vBLZwimkzlZu7DT23Slyors2hSN9I%3D)

They also sell the same relay with a higher current capacity

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NTE/R46-5D12-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvxO7XFMojgsFz7Hc5mk%252bPI (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NTE/R46-5D12-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvxO7XFMojgsFz7Hc5mk%252bPI)
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: SteveJ. on September 29, 2011, 02:37:06 pm
Seeing as you are using such a high wattage bulb anyway, you would probably be better off going to an HID. They will draw far less power, produce more light, last longer (far longer) and produce a lot less heat than such a high wattage tungsten bulb. Because they use even less wattage than stock (mine draw 42 watts) they are fine to use with stock wiring and switches. They are illegal but no more so than a 100 watt halogen bulb is. I think you would find it to be a great improvement overall.

Brian

From first hand knowledge, I would argue that longevity point. In addition, my pair of German made Hella ff200 Halogens totally drowned out the ChinaCrap 55w HID, as witnessed by several COGgers up in Talladega last year for the Vintage Fest at Barber. YMMV.

Keep something in mind on the HID lights, when they fail, you will have total darkness until you pull over and repair. Some of the roads I ride on would not be fun in total darkness at 70mph.

My .02.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Slybones on September 29, 2011, 03:37:48 pm
From first hand knowledge, I would argue that longevity point. In addition, my pair of German made Hella ff200 Halogens totally drowned out the ChinaCrap 55w HID, as witnessed by several COGgers up in Talladega last year for the Vintage Fest at Barber. YMMV.

Keep something in mind on the HID lights, when they fail, you will have total darkness until you pull over and repair. Some of the roads I ride on would not be fun in total darkness at 70mph.

My .02.

I think he is referring to a HID headlight versus a Halogen headlight. I bet your FF200's drown out either one. Hardly a reason to say HID headlight is not better than a Halogen headlight.

And I a betting that when a Halogen headlight fails you get total darkness until you pull over and repair. Assuming you have no other source of light, like FF200s. And if you have some aux lighting, like FF200's for example, then you can get by with a headlight failure regardless of which headlight style you have.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: BDF on September 29, 2011, 03:41:30 pm
I do not doubt your experience with Hella's vs. stock lamp housings but it really does not apply here. I was comparing two different light sources in the same housing, and there are numerous benefits to using HID as a light source compared with such a high wattage halogen lamp.

You are right about the issue of the lamp failing though, I had not considered the fact that a C-10 only has one headlight and an HID failure means a total headlight failure. That is an important point and a very valid safety point. Thanks for pointing it out.

Brian


From first hand knowledge, I would argue that longevity point. In addition, my pair of German made Hella ff200 Halogens totally drowned out the ChinaCrap 55w HID, as witnessed by several COGgers up in Talladega last year for the Vintage Fest at Barber. YMMV.

Keep something in mind on the HID lights, when they fail, you will have total darkness until you pull over and repair. Some of the roads I ride on would not be fun in total darkness at 70mph.

My .02.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: BDF on September 29, 2011, 03:47:13 pm
Steve does bring up a good safety point about replacing halogen lighting with a bi- xenon HID; it is extremely unlikely that both filaments of a H4 (or any filament lamp) would fail at the same time so when one does fail the other one should work long enough to replace the lamp. HID bi- xenons on the other hand only have one light source for both high and low beam so a failure of the lamp is a total headlight failure. In addition, a failure of the HID wiring or ballast is also a full headlight failure.

I had not considered that there is a single headlight housing on a C-10 but it would make me re- think using HID lighting on any single headlight vehicle for exactly the reason Steve stated.

Brian


I think he is referring to a HID headlight versus a Halogen headlight. I bet your FF200's drown out either one. Hardly a reason to say HID headlight is not better than a Halogen headlight.

And I a betting that when a Halogen headlight fails you get total darkness until you pull over and repair. Assuming you have no other source of light, like FF200s. And if you have some aux lighting, like FF200's for example, then you can get by with a headlight failure regardless of which headlight style you have.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: smithr1 on September 29, 2011, 06:06:53 pm
This is quoted from an email sent to the listserve by Dan Sullivan...

The original relays are NEC, p/n MR301-N13 (at least they were in '91).
  Back in the day, I picked up three MR301-12HUSL from Mouser.com, as
those were the higher capacity replacements that Guy was using (although
I could be wrong - the 12HUSL is a 12V 10A relay according to NEC - but
then NEC also says the MR301 was either a 5A or 10A relay, so it could
be the N13 was a 5A.  Who knows?  I haven't found the spec on the N13).

I replaced one relay (the one with the bad solder joints) and kept it.
It's probably still good.  Dammit, I had the box open and 3 new relays
and there was NO WAY I was gonna just fix the solder and throw it back
in!  NO WAY!!!  No further problems after that.

Mouser says the 12HUSL is obsolete - the whole MR301 line has been
discontinued by the manufacturer.

BUT, have heart, there are suggested replacements.  Mouser suggests the
NEC EQ1 or KB series.  The NEC EQ1 series has the same pin layout as the
MR301 and carries a contact switching current of 30A max. at 16V.  It'll
carry 40A 12V at 25C.  No more complaints about undersized relays, eh?
These sound similar to what Larry describes.

There are 4 EQ1 relays listed. http://www.worldproducts.com/pdfs/eq1.pdf (http://www.worldproducts.com/pdfs/eq1.pdf)
  EQ1-31000S would be a good candidate.  Mouser.com wants $1.68 for one.
 
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NEC/EQ1-31000S/?qs=nRZJSAML2hvw6IAy970alA%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NEC/EQ1-31000S/?qs=nRZJSAML2hvw6IAy970alA%3d%3d)


At that price, somebody else can do the legwork on the KB series....

Get 3 for good luck.  You probably don't need any, but I think they're
like an umbrella.

Have fun.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 29, 2011, 09:36:26 pm
fyi
the relays that Guy was using were "Song Chuan" and had a 15a rating...
I believe he shipped all his leftovers down to Larry Buck, who was re-building boxes. iIassume he has used them all up by now, and purchased more, not sure who's or what amperage.
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 29, 2011, 10:50:20 pm
Everyone, Thanks for all the info on the relays etc........  I will be planning on thinking about either the Murphs harness and or re-thinking the newer style "hooded" HID lighting system. I do have two set of FF50s on the bike so if a HID bulb goes I am still in good shape.

All in all this was a very interesting experience as I rode with the bike this way for over a year and maybe longer without nary an issue. It must have gone bad on my last long ride back from the Ride the Ribbon trip. I rode from Prineville, OR  straight through to Winston, OR (home)about 220 miles without stopping for anything other than a couple traffic lights and at the top of McKenzie pass to drop off three tag along Harley riders. It was in the high 90's for temps and perhaps it was the proverbal straw that broken the camels back.

Anyway I am glad to have found it and look forward to not smelling burnt rubber and plastic form underneath the fairing!  Hey at least I now know what it does smell like!

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 30, 2011, 02:30:39 am
fyi
the relays that Guy was using were "Song Chuan" and had a 15a rating...
Ev...ry...bo...dy Song Chuan tonight, everybody have fun tonight.  I personally rate the entire 80's decade at less than 15ma.  :D

Dang, now I've got that Wang Chung thing in my head.  OUT! OUT!   :-[
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: 2linby on September 30, 2011, 03:14:57 am
fyi
the relays that Guy was using were "Song Chuan" and had a 15a rating...
Ev...ry...bo...dy Song Chuan tonight, everybody have fun tonight.  I personally rate the entire 80's decade at less than 15ma.  :D

Dang, now I've got that Wang Chung thing in my head.  OUT! OUT!   :-[

Welll then Play that funky music white boy!  ;)
Title: Re: Smoking headlamp connection
Post by: Cap'n Bob on September 30, 2011, 07:59:33 am
Thanks Rev. Now I'll be singing freakin' Wang Chung all day!  :))