Author Topic: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...  (Read 1633 times)

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Offline lobo

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The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« on: April 23, 2018, 07:13:47 pm »
So first, a huge thanks to all who've contributed their knowledge to the collective. I've read about all I can concerning the bike on this forum.
I have an '86 with 26,000 on the clock and a two tone paint scheme (silver bike with a red (or whatever that color is called) tank. She needs a few things...like fixing a leaking clutch, some carb work and new tires! 
Finding a new tire for a 16" rear that I actually like, I don't think so! That means I need a 17" rear wheel(already ordered w/disc).
The carb work is minor...a check to see if Steve in SSF has added overflow tubes (he'll get the bowls if they don't have them) and a sync.
I also want to get the ground wire mod done. It seems that this is a common fix for many different models of Kawi.
My service manual should arrive today! 
I still need to do a complete fluid change and fix a leaky clutch slave cylinder.
My $600 price tag is rapidly changing, as I knew it would, but hey it'll still be a bargain and I'll have gotten to know the bike pretty well in the process.
After the rear wheel, bar adapters are next! Too many injuries to be leaned forward on my wrists. Then maybe I'll address the poor lever that is the center stand.
I'm sure many threads have mentioned the center stand...I'm just going to say this bike is the hardest to get on the stand of any I've ever attempted. I've managed twice out of maybe 10 attempts.  I think I need to gain about a hundred pounds or grow 6" to make it any semblance of easy.
Sorry this is so disjointed, I'm writing this at work between phone calls...
To sum up, I knew I'd have some work to do to make this bike ready for some miles. What I didn't know was how much I'd like the big old bike despite the fact that I can neither back up the bike while on it or use the center stand effectively.
I'm already planning trips in my head.
All I wanted was a bike to get me through while my dual sport is being rebuilt and my car is being repaired...now I have a bike I'll own for quite a while.
Now about changing to handlebars....LOL
 


Offline Victor Salisbury

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 07:43:22 pm »
For centerstanding, if the stock rear air shock is still in place, make sure it is aired up correctly. Even with the rear shock aired up (or non-stock rr shock), a rolling up of the rear tire on a 2x4 helps get the ball,,,errr, bike up on the centerstand.

HTH
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 08:35:48 pm »
Before buying risers for the bars, ask on the for sale section, or specifically contact "the wizard" that has a bunch of parts bikes, and obtain a set of bars from a later model...
The original 86 bars were significantly (1 1/4" ) lower, they increased the length around 88-89 . Both my 86 & 88 bikes I went with tubular bar adaptors from murph's, not for raising the bars, even tho that opens the door for many styles and heights, but for a wider and flatter/more turned out hand location, this allowed me to use "superbike" or "daytona" type bars, widening my grip, but not raising it, which really made a huge difference in comfort...

Congrats on your 86, I simply loved mine, and it was worth every penny I spent on it making it "my special" bike...

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and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Online Cal

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2018, 01:33:31 pm »
yes - what MOB said.  when I first rode my 86 back in 86 I would lose feeling/have tingling in my hands within 20 minutes of starting a ride.  I was ready to sell at the end of the season for that reason when the Kawi dealer said the 87's would have different bars.  made that change in bars and have ridden that way ever since.

Cal (6'1")

Offline lobo

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2018, 05:06:22 pm »
Thanks for the tip on centerstanding (is that a word? it is now) and about the bars(I've got to change something there).

Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2018, 05:32:28 pm »
I'm curious. Where did you "order" a 17" rear wheel for the C10?
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Offline lobo

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2018, 05:53:27 pm »
I ordered a Mean Streak rear wheel off Fleabay.

Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 06:50:02 pm »
 :great:
JIM CULP
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No one is a TOTAL failure; they can always be used as a bad example.

Offline Bud

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 07:15:28 pm »
Here's what I have learned through my experience about seats, handlebars and the C10.  Buy what you really want and don't settle for something that you won't be happy with.  I say that because I have bought three sets of handlebars and 4 other seats!  My main bike before the C10 was an 82 GS1100GK, which I still have and love.  That was Suzuki's answer to the Gold wing at that time.  The ergo's on that bike is a seat that is flat and level with handlebars that are wide and come back to you so that there isn't any forward lean required.  I bought the C10 while waiting for the Suzuki to come back from what would become a nightmare experience with a shop.  I had done a bunch of research and felt like a C10 would be a rock solid reliable bike with bags and lots of weather protection that could be bought for 2 grand or less.  It is all of that and easy to work on as well.  The problem with the C10 for me was the ergo's.  The C10 ergo's put me in the forward lean position with weight on my hands, and the boys were feeling pretty cramped as well.  I don't really do well with that anymore.  If my arms were longer it would help, but they're not.  If I could snap my fingers and change everything, I'd have a flat, wide, some kinda special comfy foam in the seat that was level (and heated).  Then I'd have handlebars that come back to me so that I could sit completely upright.  If you look at a BMW R1200RT, it's pretty close to what I'm talking about.  Maybe I should have bought one of those or a 1200 Voyager instead (One day I will), but I've developed a love for the C10.  For handlebars, a set of Helibar Horizons will do the trick.  Next comes the seat.  Without a level seat, you'll still feel like you're being pushed toward the tank and handlebars, even though the handlebars are closer to you and you don't need to lean forward.  I have yet to see a seat like that on a C10, so it's a DIY seat or have a custom seat builder set one up that way for you.  Unless you can do that yourself, that's probably anywhere from $250 - $800 depending on how elaborate you go with that.  Whichever way you go, have the seat made specifically for your butt! OK, so you got a reworked seat for $250 - $800.  Handlebars with hydraulic line extensions. $600.  (You can get by a bit cheaper if you buy a used handlebar mount and some tubular handlebars of your choice, along with longer hydraulic lines.)  You still have to buy longer throttle cables.  That's another $130.  You may get by re-routing the enricher cable to keep from buying one of those.   At one point I thought it would be cheaper to just go buy a 1200 Voyager, but as I said earlier, there are things to love about the C10 (it’s a keeper).  Hopefully my long winded story will be of help.  How a bike is set up is highly personal, your idea of comfort may differ.   HTH

Offline fred-houston

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 11:08:10 pm »
Thanks for the tip on centerstanding (is that a word? it is now) and about the bars(I've got to change something there).


Concerning the bars, how far do you want to go?  Some simple risers are easy and cheap, but you can go to where you have no forward lean.  I elected to go with Goldwing GL1200 bars.  I sit completely upright and am vary happy with it.  It wasn't cheap, but I did accomplish what I wanted to do.  Here is a link that has a picture of my bars http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/handlebar-mod/msg312738/#msg312738

The picture is of a C-10 that I sold some time back, but I moved that setup to my current 99 C-10.
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Offline Hardhead

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2018, 12:17:58 pm »
So first, a huge thanks to all who've contributed their knowledge to the collective. I've read about all I can concerning the bike on this forum.
I have an '86 with 26,000 on the clock and a two tone paint scheme (silver bike with a red (or whatever that color is called) tank. She needs a few things...like fixing a leaking clutch, some carb work and new tires! 
Finding a new tire for a 16" rear that I actually like, I don't think so! That means I need a 17" rear wheel(already ordered w/disc).
The carb work is minor...a check to see if Steve in SSF has added overflow tubes (he'll get the bowls if they don't have them) and a sync.
I also want to get the ground wire mod done. It seems that this is a common fix for many different models of Kawi.
My service manual should arrive today! 
I still need to do a complete fluid change and fix a leaky clutch slave cylinder.
My $600 price tag is rapidly changing, as I knew it would, but hey it'll still be a bargain and I'll have gotten to know the bike pretty well in the process.
After the rear wheel, bar adapters are next! Too many injuries to be leaned forward on my wrists. Then maybe I'll address the poor lever that is the center stand.
I'm sure many threads have mentioned the center stand...I'm just going to say this bike is the hardest to get on the stand of any I've ever attempted. I've managed twice out of maybe 10 attempts.  I think I need to gain about a hundred pounds or grow 6" to make it any semblance of easy.
Sorry this is so disjointed, I'm writing this at work between phone calls...
To sum up, I knew I'd have some work to do to make this bike ready for some miles. What I didn't know was how much I'd like the big old bike despite the fact that I can neither back up the bike while on it or use the center stand effectively.
I'm already planning trips in my head.
All I wanted was a bike to get me through while my dual sport is being rebuilt and my car is being repaired...now I have a bike I'll own for quite a while.
Now about changing to handlebars....LOL

You might want to upgrade the star spring in the clutch.  you should find info here on the COG search.

Offline Bham Greg

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2018, 04:09:48 am »
All I wanted was a bike to get me through while my dual sport is being rebuilt and my car is being repaired...now I have a bike I'll own for quite a while.

Just want to mention I'm in the same camp. I bought a 98 low miles Connie as an inexpensive way to see if we would pick up motorcycling again as a hobby now that the kids are grown. However, I'm really impressed with it. Have been enjoying this bike much more than I thought I would.

Offline The Wizard

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2018, 06:31:07 am »
I am "The Wizard"(have a need find a source,used parts) I have those needed parts and will help you.  jerrygaither@hotmail.com  Jerry
1964 Honda 55,1971 Honda CL 100,numerous Honda 350 twins,1971 Honda CL 450,1974 Honda CB 750(stolen),1971 Moto Guzzi Ambasador/Velorex sidecar,1975 Kawasaki Z1B
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2018, 06:58:11 pm »
So first, a huge thanks to all who've contributed their knowledge to the collective. I've read about all I can concerning the bike on this forum.
I have an '86 with 26,000 on the clock and a two tone paint scheme (silver bike with a red (or whatever that color is called) tank. She needs a few things...like fixing a leaking clutch, some carb work and new tires! 
Finding a new tire for a 16" rear that I actually like, I don't think so! That means I need a 17" rear wheel(already ordered w/disc).
The carb work is minor...a check to see if Steve in SSF has added overflow tubes (he'll get the bowls if they don't have them) and a sync.
I also want to get the ground wire mod done. It seems that this is a common fix for many different models of Kawi.
My service manual should arrive today! 
I still need to do a complete fluid change and fix a leaky clutch slave cylinder.
My $600 price tag is rapidly changing, as I knew it would, but hey it'll still be a bargain and I'll have gotten to know the bike pretty well in the process.
After the rear wheel, bar adapters are next! Too many injuries to be leaned forward on my wrists. Then maybe I'll address the poor lever that is the center stand.
I'm sure many threads have mentioned the center stand...I'm just going to say this bike is the hardest to get on the stand of any I've ever attempted. I've managed twice out of maybe 10 attempts.  I think I need to gain about a hundred pounds or grow 6" to make it any semblance of easy.
Sorry this is so disjointed, I'm writing this at work between phone calls...
To sum up, I knew I'd have some work to do to make this bike ready for some miles. What I didn't know was how much I'd like the big old bike despite the fact that I can neither back up the bike while on it or use the center stand effectively.
I'm already planning trips in my head.
All I wanted was a bike to get me through while my dual sport is being rebuilt and my car is being repaired...now I have a bike I'll own for quite a while.
Now about changing to handlebars....LOL

You might want to upgrade the star spring in the clutch.  you should find info here on the COG search.

Even tho they do go bad, its not high on a list for "must do" preventive jobs,
When it goes, replace it with the upgraded system, no need to mess with it until then.

I be more prone to suggest attention be given to the 32 year old brake hoses, brake pads, airfilter, fork oil, and associated other "service interval items" before spending anything on bars, ornseats, or farkles...  if it pops a brakeline a new seat, or bars was wasted money, if you get my logic.

Comfort is good, but some items should be done wayyyyyy before that.
Ride safe, and good luck with your new ride
 :motonoises:

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline lobo

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2018, 06:44:40 pm »
Filters and fluids are being replaced. Leaky clutch slave cylinder needs fixing still.
Tires are on order.  17" wheel still needs machining.
Brake lines look newer than 1986, a lot newer. Bike came with new brake pads.
I'm definitely going to have to remove the forward lean in my seating position. A 12 mile ride to get inspected left my hand going numb, mostly because a damaged elbow joint has a very small passage for the nerves and pressure on the joint makes it worse.  And of course it's the throttle arm assuring I can almost never let go.
Hopefully someday soon mud season will end and I can get the bike up my driveway...

Offline lobo

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2018, 05:15:33 pm »
And the automatic cam chain tensioner failed.
And failed catastrophically!
No warning just flat out broke. No increasing noise from the chain, just straight to a box of rocks rolling around in my engine.
I can't believe I didn't fix that part first, since I've known about this particular Kawi engine grenade device for years.   :-[
Hopefully I got it shut down before any damage was done (it ran for a couple of seconds with no tension).
Time to rip the valve cover off and see how bad the carnage is.
Hope I'm not returning my manual cam chain tensioner because the engine got munched.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2018, 07:29:21 pm »
Your gonna need a timing cover gasket, you won't see anything from the top/valve area, anything that breaks, drops down into the bottom, by the timing plate...and usually stays there...being chomped on by the timing rotor...

On an OEM '86 adjuster, the only thing that could drop, would be if someone turned that adjuster the CCW direction, and popped the small circular clip ring out of position, then it could fall, but the actual adjusting piston, and tensioning spring, should easnily be pulled out with the housing, once you remove the 2 bolts holding it to the cylinders.. that adjuster is soo long I can't see how it coud drop out inside, unless the plastic chain slider wasn't there...but then it would have had issues prior to this for sure..

I dunno, maybe someone installed a gen 2 adjuster... then all bets are off as to what combo of parts were used...
Good luck, let us know what you find down there...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 07:38:02 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Online Kelly E

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2018, 07:33:41 pm »
A lot of the metal shavings will get picked up by the pulse generator magnets.
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Offline Brooke_Benfield_OR

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2018, 08:22:30 pm »
I feel your pain RE the herculean efforts required to put Connie on her centerstand. Everything said so far (air shock at good pressure [I used 25 lbs] and 2x4 under wheel) apply. You also would be impressed by how much easier it is to centerstand the bike with a new rear tire.

If your shock is low on air pressure don't use an air compressor to fill her up or you could pop the shaft seal and end up with needing to find a new shock.

Terrible to hear of your cam chain tensioner failing. This happened to a 2006 C10 at the 2015 National Rally in Cortez but it caused no damage, but you (should) have the older style tensioner/guide combination which wouldn't be so simple to fix. My info says you can't use a newer style tensioner with the old style guide. Hopefully you have no damage and can get this resolved painlessly.
Brooke Benfield  2013 FJR1300  COG #2185

Offline lobo

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2018, 05:17:47 pm »
Well, I got lucky. I just popped in the new manual cam chain tensioner and I am good to go!
Why couldn't Kawasaki use a non-breaking manual tensioner? Answer, it's too simple.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2018, 06:44:43 pm »
Well, I got lucky. I just popped in the new manual cam chain tensioner and I am good to go!
Why couldn't Kawasaki use a non-breaking manual tensioner? Answer, it's too simple.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

So, what actually "broke"

 :TPIWWP:

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline lobo

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2018, 07:17:46 pm »

[/quote]

So, what actually "broke"

 :TPIWWP:
[/quote]

The original tensioners guts gave up the ghost.  The "plunger" just flops in and out, there is no tension to be had.
Luckily the unit is/was self contained.

As a side note, I bought a Krieger CCT. I've bought them from him for other bikes and always get excellent service and a bomb proof tensioner.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2018, 11:36:16 pm »
This one?


Or this one...?


If it was the top one, as I noted above, someone turned it CCW (backwards) popping the circlip ring, which probably dropped..
If it didn't come out with the assembly, you may need to retrieve it...

If it was like the lower photo, that is a second gen adjuster, and if it "popped", the small spring on the ratchet pawl likely popped out.. hopefully the pawl stayed pinned into the body...

Your description is kind of confusing about the plunger "flops in and out", first gen plunger is rotational, and can't "flop", second gen, when the cap bolt is removed, and also the tension spring and pin, will flop about, with the cap and spring and pin removed...

Either way, be careful not to overtighten the manual tensioner..  about 85% of the ones I've seen installed are... and when someone tells us they haven't had to adjust the tensioner in 30k miles, it is evident. Replacing the front plastic slider requires removing the head...not fun.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 12:22:11 am by MAN OF BLUES »

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline lobo

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2018, 05:33:47 pm »
Let's try this a second time...first post got etherized (probably because of the video format).
It was the top one and the circlip is still attached.
I have a video of the old tensioner "flopping" but it's the wrong format to post here so I've included the youtube address.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29LdJJsel8c

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: The slippery slope on an old low mileage bike...
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2018, 07:01:43 pm »
I get what you are saying now, sorry.
I gave away my last "spare one", to some rider that didn't "replenish my stock" , and dropped of the face o the world,
Or I would have disassembled one to show the internals, and how they go together.
The one you have has either a broken, or displaced unwind spring, which happens. Sometimes they are fixable, sometimes not.

Thanks for the vid,

Best of luck resurecting the old girl,
Ride safe

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...