Author Topic: Winter Storage Oil Change  (Read 422 times)

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Offline connie1079

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Winter Storage Oil Change
« on: November 10, 2018, 09:00:30 pm »
I have read all over the internet about winter storage for my 2000 connie zg1000. Id like to see what everyones opinion is for winter storage oil and filter. Brands you use?  I know to each their own but was thinking Rotella T6 or Amsoil for oil and probably fram, k&n, or Wix for filter.

Offline mnbikeguy

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2018, 09:16:14 pm »
Just change it using whatever you normally use and replace the filter. The biggest thing is just changing it, which removes any acids, sludges, and debris that have accumulated over the riding season. After you've changed it let it run to temp and shut it down for its winter slumber. Personally I use T6 but really any motorcycle rated oil is fine. I don't think these bikes are all that finicky.

Offline connie1079

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2018, 09:40:13 pm »
I gotcha. My last oil change in the spring was Rotella. I like to read what other people say ya know? Just good to have as much knowledge as ya can so you can learn different views.

Offline Oldschool

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2018, 12:54:52 am »
I find it very helpful to go out in the garage, put the bike on the center stand, and start it at least once a month. With it on the center stand, engage first gear or second and let the back wheel spin. Let the bike run until the fan comes on.

I live in CO and have about 5-ish months of no or very very limited riding. Starting it gets the bike warmed up, seals get a bath of oil, the rear diff gets to turn, and no harm done.

Offline mnbikeguy

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2018, 01:42:04 am »
I gotcha. My last oil change in the spring was Rotella. I like to read what other people say ya know? Just good to have as much knowledge as ya can so you can learn different views.

No worries. Probably more important is filling the fuel tank and adding 3 oz of tc-w3 2 cycle oil. Run it long enough to make sure the mix makes its way to the carbs. This will protect the jets and other passageways from getting plugged up due to evaporation. Put it on a charger and cover it up. I've done that to my bikes for the last decade and never had any problems bringing them back to life in the spring.

Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2018, 12:44:52 pm »
I gotcha. My last oil change in the spring was Rotella. I like to read what other people say ya know? Just good to have as much knowledge as ya can so you can learn different views.

No worries. Probably more important is filling the fuel tank and adding 3 oz of tc-w3 2 cycle oil. Run it long enough to make sure the mix makes its way to the carbs. This will protect the jets and other passageways from getting plugged up due to evaporation. Put it on a charger and cover it up. I've done that to my bikes for the last decade and never had any problems bringing them back to life in the spring.
No Stabil?
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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2018, 01:51:59 pm »
Sea Foam, Sta-bil, Techron, etc... As above, any bike rated oil. ie; formulated for wet clutches, I also use Rotella with no issues as have others, but have tried Lucas, many others to choose. Just changing it regularly is the best to do to any motor. Also remember, the cheapest bargain Wal-Mart oil out there today is better than the  premium racing oil from 10 years ago. Don't forget the final drive while you are at it, so easy to change I do it once a year too.
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Offline RWulf

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2018, 03:31:14 pm »
Good video clip on the "Twisted Throttle" web site. There are lots of opinions out there.
Some make since some don't. Best to develop your own and stand by it.

Offline Rideezdale

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2018, 04:52:50 pm »
I have a question, if I change oil and filter prior to winter storage, when I bring it out of storage and change the oil do I need to change the filter again also?  I'm a frugal Cogger  :)) so I'm thinking it's a waste to change the filter again. Thanks for the opinions.

Ride safe
Dale
1973 Yamaha YZ80, 1977 Suzuki GS400, 1978 Suzuki GS1000E, 1983 Honda CB1100F, 1984 Yamaha Venture,  1987 Yamaha Venture, 1989 Yamaha FJ1200, 2003 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Nomad, 2000 Kawasaki concours

Offline Bob H

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2018, 05:08:20 pm »
Only half frugal!  I personally wouldn't change the oil or filter in the spring after changing them both just before storage, but then I also resist the temptation to start it periodically during the winter so the filter and oil are both still new.  Certainly doesn't hurt anything, just uses extra oil IMO.
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Offline bajasam

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2018, 05:17:39 pm »
changing the filter is another opinionated question, i would lean towards the frugal choice and say most likely your filter is good for 3-4 oil changes, only drawback being that 4-5 oz of old oil that may stay in the filter ,but you have the same situation with not draining your oil cooler etc so regardless they'll be some residual oil left in your crankcase.

Offline mnbikeguy

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2018, 08:39:51 pm »
No Stabil?
Nah - I think most top tier gas is fine for a 4-5 month nap in northern climates. Of course I'm not a scientist nor do I have an evidence that this is true. Just a few decades of not doing it and being trouble free.

I have a question, if I change oil and filter prior to winter storage, when I bring it out of storage and change the oil do I need to change the filter again also?

I don't see any need to change after storage. I just turn the key and go.

changing the filter is another opinionated question, i would lean towards the frugal choice and say most likely your filter is good for 3-4 oil changes

It could very well be true that the filter media remains useful beyond a single oil change. But at $5.99 for a filter and the hassle of tracking when I changed it, I'll just make it all a fall service and call it good.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 08:43:39 pm »
I have a question, if I change oil and filter prior to winter storage, when I bring it out of storage and change the oil do I need to change the filter again also?  I'm a frugal Cogger  :)) so I'm thinking it's a waste to change the filter again. Thanks for the opinions.

Ride safe
Dale

No Stabil?
Nah - I think most top tier gas is fine for a 4-5 month nap in northern climates. Of course I'm not a scientist nor do I have an evidence that this is true. Just a few decades of not doing it and being trouble free.



I live on the north coast of Ohio,along Lake Erie, I consider this "Northern climate", and all the fuel here will 'phase separate' rapidly, even 'top tier' fuels (unless you fill up with expensive Racing fuel, which still deteriorates, a bit slower..)
I've poured the same 'top tier' fuel into glass jars, and sealed them, and stored them in my 'flammables cabinet' in my garage to see the extent for myself, and also filled jars with Sta-Bil treated fuel, to compare to.
I could not visibly see any deterioration in the stabilized fuel, even when stored for 10 months.. but un-stabilized clearly showed breakdown within 3, and severe separation by 5 months...
oil:
If you go thru the process of changing the oil and filter (and adding Sta-Bil to fuel, and riding the bike for 15 minutes prior to shut down for storage),prior to winter storage, there is no reason to change that oil, or the filter again after it sits....

I also find that during storage, this "periodic starting" thing is more detrimental than simply leaving the bike sit prepped, until the time when it can be started and run in a 'normal fashion'...i.e., riding it, for a period of time, down the road.....

My reasoning is, that even tho you may think 'bringing the bike up til the fan comes on...' with it in gear on the centerstand, in the garage does any good, it really doesn't.
It does nothing to circulate oil correctly to properly lubricate the bike because on the 'stand' idling along, wheel spinning, and the rpm is sitting at 1100 rpm... that rpm range isn't sufficient to supply oil pressure to the normal pressure you see when putting it thru the gears, and riding it... it also sits idling at the worst possible efficiency of burning fuel and moisture created from the combustion process, and 'blowing it all out of the complete exhaust path... like riding the bike does.... then the bike sits with moisture laden rich exhaust, in the complete path and mufflers... rusting out the lower sections... nor does it really 'ventilate' the crank case, and moisture created there, as an idling engine is not sucking crank case moisture and removing it any appreciable volume, as it would if it's ridden, and accelerated and decelerated for an amount of time...
It also does nothing 'good' for the clutch plates, as sitting in gear, is not the same as riding, and pulling the clutch, and shifting... allowing the plates to become properly lubed...brought up to a high enough temp to expel any moisture in the oil film, so they just sit there all stuck together... just the same as if it wasn't being ridden.
It seems some myths 'sound good' but in reality do nothing good for the engine. :truce:

The battery is so easy to remove, I always suggest doing just that, and bringing it indoors where it can be stored at a moderate temperature with a battery tender installed.. this allows it to cycle the charge much more efficiently, and greatly enhance that battery life.
It also prevents the 'urge' to start it and run it, before it's "riding time"....
 ;)

YMMV.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 08:59:31 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Rideezdale

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2018, 09:02:51 pm »
I hope this helped connie1079 because it has helped clear some things up for me, since last winter being the first with this bike, I wasn't too concerned because I had a lot of the bike tore down doing maintenance including sending carbs to SISF. The bike ran great all season and just want to be sure it stays that way coming out of storage, especially the carbs.😉  Even though it was in the teens this weekend and a couple of inches of snow on Friday,  I still plan on getting a couple of more rides in before putting it to sleep.  And to all who can ride all year, count your blessings!😀😎

Ride safe
Dale
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Offline Oldschool

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2018, 11:38:48 pm »
I have a question, if I change oil and filter prior to winter storage, when I bring it out of storage and change the oil do I need to change the filter again also?  I'm a frugal Cogger  :)) so I'm thinking it's a waste to change the filter again. Thanks for the opinions.

Ride safe
Dale

No Stabil?
Nah - I think most top tier gas is fine for a 4-5 month nap in northern climates. Of course I'm not a scientist nor do I have an evidence that this is true. Just a few decades of not doing it and being trouble free.



I live on the north coast of Ohio,along Lake Erie, I consider this "Northern climate", and all the fuel here will 'phase separate' rapidly, even 'top tier' fuels (unless you fill up with expensive Racing fuel, which still deteriorates, a bit slower..)
I've poured the same 'top tier' fuel into glass jars, and sealed them, and stored them in my 'flammables cabinet' in my garage to see the extent for myself, and also filled jars with Sta-Bil treated fuel, to compare to.
I could not visibly see any deterioration in the stabilized fuel, even when stored for 10 months.. but un-stabilized clearly showed breakdown within 3, and severe separation by 5 months...
oil:
If you go thru the process of changing the oil and filter (and adding Sta-Bil to fuel, and riding the bike for 15 minutes prior to shut down for storage),prior to winter storage, there is no reason to change that oil, or the filter again after it sits....

I also find that during storage, this "periodic starting" thing is more detrimental than simply leaving the bike sit prepped, until the time when it can be started and run in a 'normal fashion'...i.e., riding it, for a period of time, down the road.....

My reasoning is, that even tho you may think 'bringing the bike up til the fan comes on...' with it in gear on the centerstand, in the garage does any good, it really doesn't.
It does nothing to circulate oil correctly to properly lubricate the bike because on the 'stand' idling along, wheel spinning, and the rpm is sitting at 1100 rpm... that rpm range isn't sufficient to supply oil pressure to the normal pressure you see when putting it thru the gears, and riding it... it also sits idling at the worst possible efficiency of burning fuel and moisture created from the combustion process, and 'blowing it all out of the complete exhaust path... like riding the bike does.... then the bike sits with moisture laden rich exhaust, in the complete path and mufflers... rusting out the lower sections... nor does it really 'ventilate' the crank case, and moisture created there, as an idling engine is not sucking crank case moisture and removing it any appreciable volume, as it would if it's ridden, and accelerated and decelerated for an amount of time...
It also does nothing 'good' for the clutch plates, as sitting in gear, is not the same as riding, and pulling the clutch, and shifting... allowing the plates to become properly lubed...brought up to a high enough temp to expel any moisture in the oil film, so they just sit there all stuck together... just the same as if it wasn't being ridden.
It seems some myths 'sound good' but in reality do nothing good for the engine. :truce:

The battery is so easy to remove, I always suggest doing just that, and bringing it indoors where it can be stored at a moderate temperature with a battery tender installed.. this allows it to cycle the charge much more efficiently, and greatly enhance that battery life.
It also prevents the 'urge' to start it and run it, before it's "riding time"....
 ;)

YMMV.


What if rpm's were raised? Would that hurt/help/neutral?

Offline WillyP

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2018, 12:15:35 am »
No, unless you ride it for a good bit, the startup did more harm than sitting untouched for months would do. Think about it... your reason for starting it is to circulate oil, if the oil really did drain off and removed itself completely, you've just started a motor with no oil, and didn't run it properly to get all the oil warmed up and the moisture burned off and expelled.

And in fact seals are not likely* to dry out and fail after even 5 months of storage. Even after years of sitting, I've torn down motors that still have oil film on them.

*but... I'll never say never ;) maybe someone is using crap oil or oil not meant for motors and it has no cling... IDK
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2018, 12:23:09 am »
I have a question, if I change oil and filter prior to winter storage, when I bring it out of storage and change the oil do I need to change the filter again also?  I'm a frugal Cogger  :)) so I'm thinking it's a waste to change the filter again. Thanks for the opinions.

Ride safe
Dale

No Stabil?
Nah - I think most top tier gas is fine for a 4-5 month nap in northern climates. Of course I'm not a scientist nor do I have an evidence that this is true. Just a few decades of not doing it and being trouble free.



I live on the north coast of Ohio,along Lake Erie, I consider this "Northern climate", and all the fuel here will 'phase separate' rapidly, even 'top tier' fuels (unless you fill up with expensive Racing fuel, which still deteriorates, a bit slower..)
I've poured the same 'top tier' fuel into glass jars, and sealed them, and stored them in my 'flammables cabinet' in my garage to see the extent for myself, and also filled jars with Sta-Bil treated fuel, to compare to.
I could not visibly see any deterioration in the stabilized fuel, even when stored for 10 months.. but un-stabilized clearly showed breakdown within 3, and severe separation by 5 months...
oil:
If you go thru the process of changing the oil and filter (and adding Sta-Bil to fuel, and riding the bike for 15 minutes prior to shut down for storage),prior to winter storage, there is no reason to change that oil, or the filter again after it sits....

I also find that during storage, this "periodic starting" thing is more detrimental than simply leaving the bike sit prepped, until the time when it can be started and run in a 'normal fashion'...i.e., riding it, for a period of time, down the road.....

My reasoning is, that even tho you may think 'bringing the bike up til the fan comes on...' with it in gear on the centerstand, in the garage does any good, it really doesn't.
It does nothing to circulate oil correctly to properly lubricate the bike because on the 'stand' idling along, wheel spinning, and the rpm is sitting at 1100 rpm... that rpm range isn't sufficient to supply oil pressure to the normal pressure you see when putting it thru the gears, and riding it... it also sits idling at the worst possible efficiency of burning fuel and moisture created from the combustion process, and 'blowing it all out of the complete exhaust path... like riding the bike does.... then the bike sits with moisture laden rich exhaust, in the complete path and mufflers... rusting out the lower sections... nor does it really 'ventilate' the crank case, and moisture created there, as an idling engine is not sucking crank case moisture and removing it any appreciable volume, as it would if it's ridden, and accelerated and decelerated for an amount of time...
It also does nothing 'good' for the clutch plates, as sitting in gear, is not the same as riding, and pulling the clutch, and shifting... allowing the plates to become properly lubed...brought up to a high enough temp to expel any moisture in the oil film, so they just sit there all stuck together... just the same as if it wasn't being ridden.
It seems some myths 'sound good' but in reality do nothing good for the engine. :truce:

The battery is so easy to remove, I always suggest doing just that, and bringing it indoors where it can be stored at a moderate temperature with a battery tender installed.. this allows it to cycle the charge much more efficiently, and greatly enhance that battery life.
It also prevents the 'urge' to start it and run it, before it's "riding time"....
 ;)

YMMV.


What if rpm's were raised? Would that hurt/help/neutral?

mind you, we all have opinions, so understand my reasoning, and please don't take it in the wrong context;

rpm's only?
I don't think so personally, the outlined things I commented on, are more than just associated with a bit higher rpm, sitting on the stand, in gear, running.
The engine, and other lubed parts really don't fully get up to temperature, and 'vent' moisture out of the engine unless actually ridden under load, where crank case and rear drive venting really occurs. Just raising the engine temps without creating the vacuum/pressurization/venting that a quick 20 minute hard ride provides never really occurs when 'sitting', even if the engine was hot. Yes, it does 'force' water out of suspension in oil, but it quickly re-condenses when the bike is shut off. So even 'raising' the rpm range, doesn't do the same, also doesn't exercise the clutch plates enough to make a difference. Normal riding carries the bike cyclically thru idle (1000 rpm) up thru 6k + rpms, creating pressurization and vacuum cycles while hot, and supplies clean un-moisture laden lube, at full oil pump pressures,  which equate to the process.

this again, is my opinion, and from almost 50 years of resurrecting people's bikes from storage, some stored well, some stored and started occasionally. I'v had more issues from the ones that were 'occasionally started', but again, I'm in Ohio, and our weather, and cold, makes a big difference.

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Offline Oldschool

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2018, 01:21:24 am »
Thx all....I always have a lot of respect for the advise and information I get here on the forum.

Offline Nosmo

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2018, 04:34:12 am »
I am with MOB on this one.  Machines don't need to be warmed up periodically unless being put through a complete usage cycle.  It's the heating/cooling cycles that are most detrimental to an engine.  Once it is cold, best to leave it cold until actually riding it for say, maybe 30 miles or so.  Otherwise, you are producing nitric acid and some other bad things that don't get fully evaporated and can cause corrosion, etc.  Once or twice won't cause any catastrophic failures, but over time it really isn't the best practice.

A battery tender through the winter isn't a bad idea, though.

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Offline TimR

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2018, 06:08:57 pm »
I agree with MOB on this one too. I bought my 09 in Dec of 08. There in the PNW it often times will snow and I brought the bike home in between snow storms in a trailer. Of course friends would have to come over to see he new bike and of course they HAD to hear it run. I let the bike run until the fans same on. Then one day I noticed my oil window was filled with a white substance. It was condensation. Even though I got the motor up to operating temp, the transmission was not. Cooling off drew moisture into the crank case. Water mixes with oil and a white/gray substance is formed normally called sludge.  Not good. I understand it takes 15 miles to get both the motor and transmission up to a good operating temp. So the practice of starting the Connie and Z1 have stopped unless they are going out for a ride. At least during the winter months. I plug in a trickle charger on the batteries to keep them charged up on both bikes. I don't leave the trickle on 24/7 but put the charger on about every 1 1/2 weeks or so. Tim
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Offline bajasam

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2018, 03:36:01 pm »
getting the motor and coolant up to operating temperature is just the start, once at full temp then you need to run the bike at that temp long enough for the moisture and aromatics to be eliminated from the crankcase which can take an additional 20-30 minutes.if you cant squeeze out a 30-40 mile ride i would'nt even bother starting it up.

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2018, 06:34:48 pm »
getting the motor and coolant up to operating temperature is just the start, once at full temp then you need to run the bike at that temp long enough for the moisture and aromatics to be eliminated from the crankcase which can take an additional 20-30 minutes.if you cant squeeze out a 30-40 mile ride i would'nt even bother starting it up.

   Good point!!!  Thanks for the heads up!!!! :great:
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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 02:45:57 am »
Move to Floriduh...  Never turn.... never worry about winter storage.  :-[
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Offline TimR

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 07:15:43 am »
Move to Floriduh...  Never turn.... never worry about winter storage.  :-[

Ha! No just love bugs, with more bugs and humidity, heat and hurricanes and straight roads.  ;)  Then the rain. The Seattle people might complain about rain but Floriduh rain makes Seattle's rain look like a kiddy shower. if I had a snow mobile I would have the PNW covered.
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Offline Mcfly

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Re: Winter Storage Oil Change
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 11:18:46 am »
Move to Floriduh...  Never turn.... never worry about winter storage.  :-[

Ha! No just love bugs, with more bugs and humidity, heat and hurricanes and straight roads.  ;)  Then the rain. The Seattle people might complain about rain but Floriduh rain makes Seattle's rain look like a kiddy shower. if I had a snow mobile I would have the PNW covered.

All that AND you don't have to winterize...   :)

...but you forgot the really, really old people.  They're starting to out number love bugs.

Performance -- Rear: C14 Shock - Front: Sonic 1.1 w/emulators, Fork Brace - SISF Jet Mod & Ex Cam Sprocket - Tokico front brakes
Comfort -- Russell Day Long - Madstad - Cruise Control

FL/SE Assistant Area Director