Author Topic: zg1000 BIG bore engine  (Read 10994 times)

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Offline txfatboy

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Re: zg1000 BIG bore engine
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2015, 01:00:21 am »
Right on about the smaller big end for the connecting rod Steve, although I don't think welding can be avoided in this instance. The biggest hurdle "I" face is the lack of info such as engine part specs.... rod lengths, bearing diameters, piston specs., etc.... In the car world, this is fairly easy for me to obtain.
Ted, yes 0.040 is VERY close to 1mm, which is why I chose the 2mm stroke increase as a starting point. Theoretically this would allow the use of a combination of already available parts with the crank being the only seriously modified part..... well that and the cylinder block/sleeve swap which Steve says should be doable. I am also wanting to know just how big the Connie can go. Maybe, ultimately, the Concours based cases will need to be abandoned in favor of the zrx 1200. I know that engine can be safely taken to 1224 without adding stroke. So, just how much stroke can be added to these engines before you run out of room in the cases and length of cylinders?
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: zg1000 BIG bore engine
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2015, 01:48:14 am »
here ya go, block will set you back around 2800.00 or so, then there's welded crank, etc. i dunno, probably get out for about 4500.00

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steve
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: zg1000 BIG bore engine
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2015, 03:58:10 am »
here ya go, block will set you back around 2800.00 or so, then there's welded crank, etc. i dunno, probably get out for about 4500.00

 http://www.muzzys.com/ZX11/

steve


Heck you can get a complete turbo kit from Mr. Turbo for $4,495. Just sayin....

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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: zg1000 BIG bore engine
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2015, 05:17:56 am »
here ya go, block will set you back around 2800.00 or so, then there's welded crank, etc. i dunno, probably get out for about 4500.00

 http://www.muzzys.com/ZX11/

steve


Heck you can get a complete turbo kit from Mr. Turbo for $4,495. Just sayin....

http://www.mrturbo.com/turbo-sys/kawasaki/zx11_carb/zx11_carb.html

You'll have to completely redo the kit.  Even the header is problematic and may not fit under Connie's plastic.   May not fit behind her radiator without a hammer.  Most of the cold side will have to be re-fabricated.  Might as well start from scratch.  Believe me... I've thought about this one AND the one from McXpress (before they quit making them).  If it doesn't save you much work, it ain't worth much. But it costs a fortune.  If there was enough market, I could produce a kit for half that and quit my day job.   But I still wouldn't really recommend blow-through carbs for the average Joe.  Power's good, but mileage stinks. 

I can't stop thinking about slappin' a centrifugal supercharger off a jet ski on one fer grins n giggles. There'd be some machining to do, but it'd be pretty cool.  Maybe a little lag advantage over a turbo.  Hard to say without trying it.  Or you could use a little roots type, but again... bad mileage.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 05:22:45 am by Rev Ryder »
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: zg1000 BIG bore engine
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2015, 02:57:06 pm »
Just keep in mind that you get a whole lot of displacement increase from 2mm bore (5%) but you won't get it from the same amount of stroke. I personally would not even consider a 2mm stroke, the money it will cost will never be recovered in smiles. Steve

Agreed: Was just trying to find a Piston/rod Combination that would work with Woody's suggested Stroke increase...
             The stock Connie Rods, and ZRX pistons worked out pretty well.
             If he chooses to use these, it would reduce overall cost because cylinders don't have to be replaced.

NOTE: The stock Connie rods are easily available.
          ZRX pistons are relatively available, they are "2" mm bigger than stock, and have a shorter skirt that will allow
          for the increased stroke.

Below are the resulting Bore & Stroke numbers to find out what we're talking about.
  I did all combinations that I think we have discussed. The 80 mm bore numbers are for thought only as we do not think
    the 80 mm piston is possible.......
  (My calculations are slightly less than older calculations. Would someone check this as I may have erred)?

Combination                        Bore            Stroke      Disp. of 1 Cylinder       x 4 cylinders   =  Total Displacement
Stock Piston and Stroke          74                58             (248.5) CC                        4                           (994.1) CC
ZRX Pis.  & Stock Stroke         76                58             (262.4) CC                        4                          (1049.5) CC
+4 mm Pist. & Stock St.          78                58             (276.6) CC                       4                          (1106.3) CC
+6 mm Pist. & Stock St.          80               58             (291.1) CC                        4                          (1164.4) CC Not Possible?

ZRX Pis. & +2 mm stroke        76                60             (271.6) CC                        4                          (1086.3) CC
+4 mm Pist. & +2 mm St    78                60             (286.3) CC                        4                          (1145.1) CC   Max Displacement
+6 mm Pist. & +2 mm St.      80                60             (301.3) CC                        4                          (1205.2) CC Not Possible?

I compared a 2 mm bore increase and a 2 mm stroke increase.
As usual, Steve is correct, the 2 mm Bore increase netted more bang for your buck...
See below;
Stock Pis.  & +2 mm stroke 74                60             (257.2) CC                         4                          (1029.0) CC  (+2 mm Stroke)
ZRX Pis.  & Stock Stroke     76                58             (262.4) CC                         4                          (1049.5) CC  (+2 mm bore)   

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 05:39:22 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline txfatboy

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Re: zg1000 BIG bore engine
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2015, 04:38:12 pm »
Good info Ted. My direction in this would be working off the 1109 big bore kit the ZRX guys are running which would require (?) swapping the ZRX cylinders into a Concours block. As Steve has said, this should be possible with a later model block (I have a 98 block I am going to measure once I tear the engine down). I also have ZRX 1100 cylinders and all new o-rings  for the cylinders.
I am keenly aware of the costs related to taking on a project like this. I am in no position to throw buckets of money at something like this. I am also very patient. I also am not going to spend 1k + on welding a crank just to get a 2 mm increase in stroke.... that combination was used as reference for simplicity because the numbers seemed to add up. But, Maybe there is a drag racer out there that has done all this with the Ninja 1000 that wants to sell all his older stuff? You never know what is sitting around in someone's garage collecting dust. All this is speculation on my part right know. First thing for me is getting the ZRX cylinders in a Concours block..... THEN start looking into adding as much stroke as the engine will tolerate while using as many stock parts as possible..... AND trying to maintain some sort of a reasonable budget.
Woody

2014 V-Max Matt Gray, air box and exhaust mods, reflashed ECU, now over 200 hp. Currently accepting donations for rear tire money.......
1991 Connie, 17 inch wheels, modified swing arm, ZRX1200 forks with full race tech gold valves a springs  and 6pot Calipers, zx9/ zzr1200 hybrid rear shock, 2 min mod and exhaust cam sprocket from SISF, tubular handle bars, hywy pegs, HID headlight and running lights.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: zg1000 BIG bore engine
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2015, 05:14:14 pm »
 yall need to stop this right now. You're making me think "what if" again. I'm in kind of a perfect position... I already have the block done. Ross will make pistons with any pin height I specify. I have good, small journal rods. A zx or zrx 1100 crank and clutch basket (different primary gearing) would bolt in. There's plenty of zx / zrx strokers that have been built. Turning the rod journals down to 35mm for my rods could salvage a damaged stroker crank someone is giving up on. HMMM  ::)  Steve

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: zg1000 BIG bore engine
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2015, 05:46:25 pm »
Oh, I understand... <evil grin>

I was just "what if-ing" to find out what the numbers would be,,, "If" someone (hint, hint) were to build a big bore stroker....  ;)

Now, (just so I can calculate all the numbers) what kind of stroke have these guys been adding?
2mm, 4mm, 6mm?????

Ride safe, Ted
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