Author Topic: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work  (Read 3043 times)

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Offline Stimpy77

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Joined COG on FB ("Jon Davis"), my Connie was only $1500, seller said his only reason was because it's too hot in Phoenix and the fairing blocks too much wind. Turns out it's dripping sometimes pouring gas down below while running; this girl has a stuck needle, needs a carbs rebuild.

Ordered my carb rebuild kit (x4) and petcock rebuild kit from murphskits.com.

I have almost no idea what I'm doing. And I want to ride, not tear apart my primary commuter as a wrenching novice in my hot garage in Phoenix. Ugh. But the alternative is to waste $600+ to get some local garage to do it, and for all I know they'd cut corners and I'd never know. So here I go ... eventually ... slumped over my computer wondering when my murphskit stuff arrives ...
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 04:45:26 am by Stimpy77 »

Offline Bruiser

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2017, 05:25:56 am »
Carb rebuilding on these is fairly easy....they can be a bugger sliding out then in, though. Only mistake I made is not marking the rubber boots...they must go in the same position as they came out.
Bruiser

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Offline MichiGlenn

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2017, 08:47:26 am »
If you have that kind of leaking, the first thing you should do is check for hydrolock. DO NOT START THE BIKE AGAIN UNTIL YOU CHECK THIS. It's a simple test that will show if you have a bent rod, which is what can happen when cylinders fill with gas due to petcock and carb issues.  Pull the tank and plugs and follow this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W6k3pTdAXw
That will show you if the problem has gone deeper than you think. 


Steve Sefsick is a COG all-star who has several youtube videos that will help with the questions new Concours owners have as well as those you don't know you should have.  Check him out at Steve S. on youtube.  He's also Steve in Sunny Florida on the forum. 
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Offline Stimpy77

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2017, 09:49:25 am »
Thanks for the confidence booster. Engine's fine I think, I won't be riding her anymore till this is fixed but I rode her home, no weird engine noise or anything. I just got her so I mean if the rod's bent and ultimately riding it destroys the engine I wasn't about to fix that anyway. Loss of $1500 (+$100 rebuild kits), frankly it's less hassle than to suddenly become a frickin mechanic to find and fix a bent rod and all its side effects.
But heck, who knows what I end up doing once I manage to strip her naked to finger at her carbs. I'm just so inexperienced I know I'm probably already going to end up getting the whole thing hauled to the junkyard before I'm done.

Yay Concours.. *sigh*

Offline mattchewn

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2017, 09:59:32 am »
Stimpy,
You can send the carbs to Steve also. He is THE MASTER at Concours carbs. No stock connie runs as well as one that has his carbs on it. He will also install overflow tubes to provide the ONLY true protection against hydrolock. It also won't cost 600$ unless maybe you do overnite shipping both ways....
Matt
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 05:46:21 pm by mattchewn »
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Offline Stimpy77

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2017, 04:18:17 pm »
Does he still do it? Read some where he's only working on 14s now.

Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2017, 04:39:45 pm »
Does he still do it? Read some where he's only working on 14s now.


Yes, its his bread and butter....

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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2017, 12:31:44 am »
Steves the man Jon. And for another 37 bucks a year you can unlock the  top secret mysterious and sought after Chalkdust that contains more knowledge of the C10 then Mom Kaw knows. We have several members in the PHX area that I'm sure would be happy to help out also. Hang in there, use common sense, don't get frustrated. You came to the right place!  :great:
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Offline Stimpy77

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2017, 12:39:23 am »
Looks like Steve already did the carbs on this bike. I was just reviewing a saved copy of the original Craigslist ad from when I bought it. "Shoodaben carb upgrade" listed as a feature. Go figure.

At least hopefully by "upgrade" it means it has the anti-hydralock, which might explain why the engine sounds fine.

I guess it needs new needles again, or new petcock rebuild or something, I'll just do it myself or locally.

Offline Stimpy77

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2017, 12:42:53 am »
Steves the man Jon. And for another 37 bucks a year you can unlock the  top secret mysterious and sought after Chalkdust that contains more knowledge of the C10 then Mom Kaw knows. We have several members in the PHX area that I'm sure would be happy to help out also. Hang in there, use common sense, don't get frustrated. You came to the right place!  :great:
I paid for full membership before I posted here.

Offline mattchewn

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2017, 12:45:31 am »
Stimpy,
DO NOT just let "someone" do the carbs. Steve does several specific mods that a "someone" won't recognize and may well try to undo and thereby wreck your carbs. Talk to Steve and get them figured out yourself or have him freshen them up. If he did them they should have the 2MM as well and there should be a foam block in the intake of the air box. If this foam is missing it will cause issues as well. Take the time to talk with Steve at least!  If you have four small rubber drain tubes coming from the bottom of the carbs, ( 1 for each carb bowl), then you have the overflow tubes already!
Matt
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2017, 12:47:15 am »
Steves the man Jon. And for another 37 bucks a year you can unlock the  top secret mysterious and sought after Chalkdust that contains more knowledge of the C10 then Mom Kaw knows. We have several members in the PHX area that I'm sure would be happy to help out also. Hang in there, use common sense, don't get frustrated. You came to the right place!  :great:
I paid for full membership before I posted here.
Good Man! +1 on what Matt said. Steve's pretty active on the forum and is known to take great pride in his previous work. Try PM'ing here and I'd bet you get a quick response. I am far from a C10 expert but this new ethanol gas and sitting for a bit does bad things to carbs (it kills my KLR if I don't drain the bowl). If you have the overflow tubes you are probably safe from the dreaded hydrolock. Maybe they just need a refresh. Check the SW rides and events board here in a minute.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 12:56:47 am by Old Man on a Connie »
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Offline Stimpy77

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2017, 01:29:16 am »
Well, say I return the petcock rebuild kit and get a new oem petcock .. I don't even know how is it that the petcock would cause gas drainage like this. It only happens when running, and while I got it to do it last night, I didn't get it to do it tonight. Seems like iffy carb needles. I know, needles go bad, even if Steve touched them last. I can't imagine how a well-rated local mechanic could cause harm by helping me pull the carbs and replace the needles. Does Steve's work actually eliminate the compatibility of a rebuild kit? Really?

Guys I'm sure Steve is a really nice guy, a true genius, totally trustworthy, and all that. But if my common brand name Kawasaki has to have pieces of it shipped to Steve every time something goes wrong I got the WRONG BIKE and I need to dump it immediately. I got a Kawasaki because it's supposed to be parts-supportable and shop-maintainable.

Give me a thumbs-up on working through this without your wizard Steve and I'll stick around, and I'm *not* returning the rebuild kits. At least, not yet. I have nothing against Steve. But the fact that the whole community including my Connie's prior owner is converging on one guy to support it leaves me with a NASTY taste in my mouth about the supportability of my bike.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 01:50:37 am by Stimpy77 »

Offline mattchewn

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2017, 10:20:29 am »
Stimpy,
It's not like that. Steve has figured out over lots of years how to make the C10 specifically run the best it possibly can by custom modifying the carbs. This does not mean that someone else can't change parts or perform servicing. I was only saying be careful WHO you let do the changing. There is nothing on these bikes that can't be serviced by ANY competent wrencher, NOT mechanic but wrencher! You can certainly do any of the work yourself and we actually RECOMMEND that you do! I was only saying take a minute or two to get all the info that you can about how and what was done so that you are in a more educated place to do the repairs yourself! Steve will be (in all likelihood), more than willing to help you with information on which are the best parts and pieces to use to get the best results, regardless of where you buy them, ( he doesn't sell them), thereby saving you time, energy, AND MONEY!!!
Matt
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Offline Camper Dave

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2017, 01:06:33 pm »
I got a Kawasaki because it's supposed to be parts-supportable and shop-maintainable.
Sure, that works with a newer model bike....Or a Harley Davidson. Most shops I know of don't even want to work on a bike over 10 years old (unless they sold it and know it's maintenance history). Too many things can go wrong working on an older bike. Rubber parts get hard, gaskets leak, bolts snap. So the cost of even the easy maintenance job might double or triple. Nobody wants to bring their bike in for some seemingly simple job and get a bill for all the additional works that needed to be done. And that's why shops don't want to work on older bikes, they can't predict what's going to go wrong. Even a simple oil change, what happens when the oil plug was stripped by a previous owner. Now the shop has to surprise the owner with a $100+ bill for a $30 oil change. Of course, the owner thinks that the shop probably stripped it. Nobody wins...

As far as this Steve guy... He is not a really nice guy, nor is he a true genius (but I will give him trustworthy). I've never used his services, I've always been brave enough (or foolish enough) to fix things (and re-fix things) myself. It is very possible that I hydro-locked my old 99 at one point due to bad float needles. Steve is just an ordinary guy who has an unhealthy need to figure out a better way to do something. He wasn't a factory trained head mechanic at the largest Kawasaki dealer in the world, he was just a guy who had a little too much time on his hands. He worked on his own bike, and maybe a few local folks. Then people started asking him to work on their carbs. At some point I think he figured that if people are going to keep asking him to work, he might as well create a legit business.

The problem with taking a bike that has Steve's carb mods to the local shop is that the things that he modifies goes against conventional shop "wisdom". The jets are not what the "book" calls for, what's up with this foam in the airbox and fuel bowls don't come with overflow tubes because the petcock is vacuum operated (and that never fails, right). You say the previous owner said the bike ran better/faster like this... Less airflow, smaller jets??? A typical shop won't take the time to understand what or why these changes were made; the "book" calls for this, so let's put everything back to stock and get your bike running right.

Yes, you can do all the work yourself (even I can do it). You can return everything to stock and your bike will run fine. And yes, it seems like whenever anyone asks for carb support, the #1 answer is: Steve. That's because: we've been around quite a while, we don't really know the mechanic ability of the person asking questions and Steve has a proven record of doing things the right way, no shortcuts.

Problem is, it's beginning to sound like you are looking for the quick and easy fix. Sure, replacing the float needles (I hope that's what you mean by carb needles) will stop the gas leaking. You can take your rebuild kit, put all those new parts in and the bike will run great... Or maybe it's still not run right. It's probably because you didn't check the float level or didn't clean out all those tiny little air/fuel circuits (something that Steve will do). So you dump a whole bottle of some magic carb cleaner in (Seafoam or Tecron are my favorites) and  slowly things are running better... And that lasts a little while but 1 morning it's running crappy again. So you pull the carbs again (damn, those card boots are really hard to work with, they are almost hard as rocks... Maybe you should get new ones...) and shoot some carb cleaner into all those tiny little holes you can find. Put the carbs back on (did you get those new boots?). Hey, it runs pretty good! Well, for another week or 2, maybe longer but now it's running like crap again. Do you really have to pull those carbs again?? Man, this bike really is a POS!!!!  Now, do you see why the #1 answer to carb issues is Steve??
<--- is there any mechanism in place to deal with a non- productive, antagonistic, former non- member such as this?

Offline Stimpy77

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2017, 06:28:14 pm »
Problem is, it's beginning to sound like you are looking for the quick and easy fix.
Quote
Man, this bike really is a POS!!!!  Now, do you see why the #1 answer to carb issues is Steve??

I'm not "looking for the quick and easy fix" so much as I'm irked that one product line from a major vehicle manufacturer has all of its passionate owners deferring to "some guy in Florida named Steve". I totally get it, why it is, I'm just irked that it is.

Your Harley comparison is equally disturbing. Harleys, compared to the favor of their name, are junk. People ride, own, and work on Harleys because Harleys are Harleys. My first bikes were Kawasaki (Vulcan 500) and Honda (CRF250L) and not Harley, Indian, BMW, KTM, Moto Guzzi, etc, specifically because parts are common and cheap and not elitist. "Talk to Steve" comes across as elitist.

What I mean is, Steve's great work won't help if I'm halfway across the country in a motel and the bike has broken down. If taking it to the shop I have to undo a bunch of elitist custom work I'm screwed. Particularly when I really admired the work Steve did (which I already do).

Again, I'm sure best advice for the Concours is to go to Steve. Or, I could save the same amount of $, sell the Connie, and try focusing more on Honda.

But I think that the point you were trying to make is that the Concours would be a POS, were it not for Steve. Feels like putting lipstick--and a beautiful dress--on a pig. And so my point is, hey thanks for the welcome, but I'm afraid I am a new owner of a POS. Not that I should be complaining. $1500 is a VERY good deal for a running bike, even for a POS.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 06:37:41 pm by Stimpy77 »

Offline Stimpy77

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2017, 06:50:52 pm »
and to be fair, one of you PM'd me and gave me some encouragement that I (myself) can do this, and salvage Steve's work. Thank you for that. This helps me feel a lot better. Now just waiting for parts.

Offline mattchewn

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2017, 08:05:54 pm »
Stimpy,
These bikes are not POS's without Steve's magic touch. They are just immensely better with it. They require the same care and maintenance as will any brand bike regardless of Steve.   What it comes down to is this: You have 2 great bikes, both run very well but one has better throttle response and smoother acceleration with more power than the other and is just a little, (some will argue a lot), better than the other. Which one would be your "go to" bike? 
      I said "talk to Steve" for your benefit,  not to get you to buy something from him. He will impart knowledge about these things you can't get from a book. He built the carbs and no one knows them better than he does. This is just a fact. he can also tell you what parts may be missing that would cause you heartache once you get done cleaning the carbs and replacing the needles. I have been an ASE Certified Master Technician, I am not too proud to call him and discuss things and maybe even learn a thing or two. I was one of the few folks that helped him "dial in" his C14 flash.
     Steve makes custom cams, and a "seventh gear mod"  for these bikes as well as a few other parts that NO ONE else makes . He has been able to get a lot more of the potential of these machines actually realized in real life. He spent years working on this specific bike and knows them like no other.
     He has now moved into the C14 arena and has warmed over a lot of these bikes as well. Ride a stock one and then a "SISF" bike and you will see. This doesn't make either one bad or less reliable, it is just that one is easier and more enjoyable to ride, ( and gets better mileage with smoother, more usable power). This same thing happens within EVERY brand on certain models. Unfortunately it is usually high volume sellers like crotch rockets that get all the upgrades and not sport touring rigs like these.
      Welcome to Concours ownership. Take a breath, we are not from the government and YES, we ARE here to help, but you have to be willing to let us...
Matt
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 08:11:40 pm by mattchewn »
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Offline Bud

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2017, 04:45:07 pm »
Stimpy,
When you start with saying that you might not know what you're doing, then the guys are trying to steer you in the direction of getting the best results with the least amount of knowledge.  You might even get a bit of respect from some of the elders around here by admitting your lack of knowledge.  It's no crime to be ignorant about something, but some might say it is a crime to ignore the advice of people that have owned a C10 for many years.  There is a vast amount of knowledge here and some great guys.  If you want to do all the work yourself there are many here that will help via the forum.  I just read a thank you thread from a new member.  Connie_Rider helped fix his forks in person, not just giving advice on the forum.  I bet if you approached it in the right way, that could be a possibility in your case.  Maybe you should post that you're having a kegger and cookout at your place and be overcome with COG wrenchers!! :beerchug: :beerchug:  As for the POS comment, I have owned many many bikes since the 70's and have no problem saying that my 05 C10 and my son's 87 with 100,000 miles are the most reliable motorcycle I've ever owned.  The reason SISF gets mentioned so much is just because he know's what he's talking about without a doubt.  As Steve said, many shops have techs that just don't know the C10.  My son was born the same year as his 87 C10.  I think Steve said in a thread once that if you think you can do it, you can.  If you don't think you can do it then you can't.  A positive attitude is very helpful.  I really hope that you get the bike running to your satisfaction.  The COG community is on your side and only want the best outcome in your situation.  Welcome to COG!   :beerchug:  We're glad you're here!  Good luck!

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2017, 06:18:56 pm »
Sounds like you had some trash under a float needle.

Mine recently did the same while on a trip, and I (carefully) did the tap/run trick to clear it.
Problem stopped, and got me home where I flushed the carbs.
Running ok now, but 1 carb seems to have a float that is high...

So, I plan to remove and do more when I get a chance.
ie; Will probably send to Steve and have jett kit, and standpipes installed too.
  Yes, I'm a believer...

NOTE: This bike is a spare that sets a lot...

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline mattchewn

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2017, 10:23:28 pm »
Stimpy,
I just want to make a "recommendation" here and this is for anyone on any forum I am not singling you out. Everything on a forum is subject to an individuals interpretation of how it is/was meant when typed out. The interpretation has as much chance of being incorrect as it does being correct. Many people get "wadded up" over nothing more than an incorrect interpretation. With very few exceptions EVERYONE on this forum want to see you get the absolute most satisfaction from your C10. This is the Concours Owners Group after all. we want nothing more than you to become a huge fan of the C10 or C14 or even both. Our recommendations are usually all in the spirit of helping you to get to that reality. Some of come off better than others and some are far more eloquent in how they say what they say.
     We all want you to be another happy C10 camper among friends here. Please look at these posts in that light.
Matt

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Offline TimR

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2017, 10:58:06 pm »
 :iagree:

Jon, These guys are only trying to help and this is what COG is all about, helping each other. Keep in mind the oldest C10 was built in 1986 the newest C10 was built in 2006.  I think these guys are giving  you advice based on their experience base of over twenty years.  Almost 30 now. Steve's goal has always been to make the C10 run right so the owner enjoys his or her ride. No fault in that.  You don't have to use Steve's services. But most have discovered having a shop mechanic work on the carbs or working on them themselves has resulted in less than an acceptable results. All these guys are trying to do is save you a little frustration and loss of hair.

Might I suggest once you get your bike up and running, go on a COG ride or event in your area. Then you will get a look at what COG really is and not just a forum.

Congrats on the C10 and welcome to COG. Your Area Director is a nice (nut case) guy. hope to see you out there one of these days. Tim

« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 11:09:40 pm by TimR »
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2017, 12:13:47 am »
Your Area Director is a nice (nut case) guy.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm??

Going by that explanation.. It's has to be Mark... "Old man on a Connie"..

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Offline MichiGlenn

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2017, 12:24:06 am »
OK, I'm the one who first brought up Steve.  In no way did I intend to give the impression that he's the only one who can fix a Connie.  In fact, his videos have "held my hand" as I DIY'd things that scared me to start on.  As others have said, his intent is to help those of us who aren't mechanics understand our bikes a little better, and be able to work on them ourselves with less intimidation.  I don't know a mechanic in Phoenix, and my daughter who lives there is the last person you'd want working on your bike, so Steve's vid's were the best recommendation I had at hand.


I did over-react with the bold red text, but if there's gas flowing and if you had no overflow tubes, hydrolock is an issue, and starting it up could ruin a good day. 


Glad to hear you have the tubes and no hydrolock.  Replacing the petcock sounds like a good plan.  Others who have replied know more about carbs than I do, so read and learn.  It's what I do.  Great to have a group who know the bike well and are willing to share knowledge.  Sounds like you're on your way to being able to enjoy the ride.
2001 C-10
1977 Honda CB750K Sold
1978 Honda CB750K Long Gone
1972 Honda CL175 Ancient History
Heald Super Tryke 8hp, Wards T555 Trike

Offline cra-z1000

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Re: Hello from Phoenix, "new to me" '99 zg1000, already needs work
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2017, 12:45:39 am »
Do it man , you can do it . If gas is coming out from underneath you may already have overflows . Take a peek at the back of the airbox and see if there's a piece of foam blocking part of the air intake . If so then your carbs may have been done by SISF at one time . You will need to access an old article by Man of Blues , (carbs,it aint a diet thing)in the Concourier library . For that you need a membership , not trying to upsell you on this site but it's really worth it . And don't be afraid to reach out to MOB , he's a really helpful straight up dude .
1987 C 10
80 Kawasaki KZ 1000 MK 2
74 Honda 750 four ss
73 Suzuki 550 triple
72 Honda 550 four