Author Topic: 1000 mile report  (Read 745 times)

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Offline Lee Ving

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1000 mile report
« on: December 28, 2017, 05:08:54 pm »
     I have about 1000 miles since Ivan's flash on my 2015, hope I can relay some (long winded) observations to anyone trying to do research on getting a flash.
     I have dealt with Ivan's for tuning of other bikes, and those results were each stellar. Here are some observations on the C14 flash as of late 2017 for slip on exhaust:
      I noticed improvements in several areas in how the bike runs right away, and others over time. Out of the gate I noted the bike runs cooler, smoother and much more relaxed than stock. Tighter exhaust note. It reminded me immediately of a well tuned carbureted bike. The throttle dials in power linearly with AUTHORITY and allows you to dial down power to closed throttle linearly and almost seamlessly. On and off throttle is drama free across the rev band and like I said , very carb like. Excellent. The bike runs cooler, tighter, and takes less throttle to get up to speed. Steady state cruise is quite a bit smoother than stock, and the engine maintains the same type of feel as when accelerating. The engine is happy at a wider range of speeds now where stock it seemed to get a little wheezy in the extremes of the rev range (below 2500 rpm and over about 8k).
     The heat the bike throws is less in all situations. The feeling of mechanical strain from the engine is less. This is hard to describe, but I am less aware of thrashing, heat and strain coming from the motorcycle since the flash. For me, it was a distraction on the Concours that I was not aware of until it was gone.
     Right away I noticed an obvious increase in torque in the lower half of the rev range. Over time, though, I have noticed that there is more going on than just more power here. It pulls and modulates and even sounds like a different machine. I noticed it less when riding alone, but 2 up and loaded it's a bit of a transformation over the stock bike. The torque is scalable with the throttle, there is no waiting for the engine to spin up. This area is a real departure from stock. I'm curious how Ivan does this. I spend most of my time below 5k rpm, and the the ease with which the bike operates in this range makes revving it optional. Ivan, if you can comment on this I'd like to see what you have to say about this.
     Above 5 or 6k the bike spins up more freely and has less objection to speeds north of 130mph. Before the flash the engine felt a little strained at higher speeds. There are no such issues now.
There is one downside I have noticed and that my fuel consumption. The mileage is suffering for me because it's hard for me to control myself to ride at reasonable speeds. (This is a 'me' problem, clearly.) At normal speeds mpg often shows in the 50's 2 up, which is better than it was stock, but I have been having too much fun to measure it. I'm going to need to work on my impulse control.
     Overall, I dont think I would want to own a C14 without the flash. It has meaningfully improved how the bike runs in every riding situation I have encountered over the last 1000+ miles. I appreciate the flash more the longer I ride with it.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:43:50 pm by Lee Ving »

Offline khager01

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2017, 07:24:17 pm »
Lee, just curious which slip-on do you have?   I have Ivan's flash too and still have the stock exhaust, but plan on getting a slip-on in the future. 

Agree with everything you said about the flash, now that I have it,  I could never go back.  One more thing when I grab a handful of throttle in 1st gear, it lifts the front wheel much easier and quicker now and of course KTRC quickly steps in, so I can definitely feel the difference in power and torque and it carries all the way to 10K even though I usually keep it below 5K, but the smoothness and control of the throttle are to me the best part of the flash.  I find myself playing with the throttle a lot, just to feel the results of it, if that makes sense.

As far as the MPG, my best was about 44 mpg before the flash, and I have gotten a best of 46 mpg after, and both of these were similar droning on the slab.   It is hard to stay out of the throttle for a full tank,  and even more so after the flash.  Also weather plays a factor, I got my bike new in July, got it flashed in October and it is now December, mileage goes downhill with the temps.  I have about 5K miles on the bike now, about 2K before the flash and about 3K after, and it just keeps getting better.

Bottom line IF you can control your right hand you will get a little better mileage, but then again I don't ride for mileage either, I ride to have fun! :motonoises:
2017 Concours 14
2012 V-Strom 650

Offline Lee Ving

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 07:57:13 pm »
I got the Delkevic tri-oval in 17" stainless. I was worried about noise, and went with the longer metal muffler I would go with either carbon or a shorter muffler for a little more sound if I had to do it again. The bike sounds so good. One of the neat features about the flash is the change in how the bike sounds.The bike is just music at full throttle.

Offline khager01

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 09:02:55 pm »
I was thinking about the Vance&Hines CS One, but for less than half the price I can get this from Delkevic,



Not sure if the exhaust heat would have any effect on the  R/S bag though.  I do like the tip on this exhaust.
2017 Concours 14
2012 V-Strom 650

Offline Lee Ving

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 06:37:02 pm »
The Delkevic has a nice looking muffler, no heat issues with the bags. It's a lot of product for the money, but the absolute finish and perhaps longevity will be better with a big brand. My muffler has gotten louder more quickly with use vs past experience with the more expensive brands. The 17" muffler is a perfect length for the bike with bags on.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2017, 08:10:41 pm »
khager01, I don't recall seeing that design from Delkevic previously.
Is it a new offering from Delk??
Does it come in the carbon fiber?
           (reason; The carbon fiber is cooler to the touch than the metal cans...)

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Offline khager01

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2017, 11:28:08 pm »
Ted, here is the eBay link,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-Concours-14-GTR1400-13-Stainless-Tri-Oval-Muffler-Exhaust-08-15-16-17/181157894415?fits=Model%3AConcours+14&hash=item2a2dda190f:g:eg4AAOSwyYFaHe3t&vxp=mtr

Unfortunately I only see it in the 13" stainless, I really like the tip on this vs. the tip on the  17" , but I am worried what the heat would do to my bag especially in our Texas summers.
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Offline khager01

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2017, 03:44:59 am »
The Delkevic has a nice looking muffler, no heat issues with the bags. It's a lot of product for the money, but the absolute finish and perhaps longevity will be better with a big brand. My muffler has gotten louder more quickly with use vs past experience with the more expensive brands. The 17" muffler is a perfect length for the bike with bags on.

Do you have the DB killer (baffle) installed?
2017 Concours 14
2012 V-Strom 650

Offline Lee Ving

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 06:40:32 pm »
No, no baffle installed.

Offline Ivan_ipp

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 11:51:29 pm »
     I have about 1000 miles since Ivan's flash on my 2015, hope I can relay some (long winded) observations to anyone trying to do research on getting a flash.
     I have dealt with Ivan's for tuning of other bikes, and those results were each stellar. Here are some observations on the C14 flash as of late 2017 for slip on exhaust:
      I noticed improvements in several areas in how the bike runs right away, and others over time. Out of the gate I noted the bike runs cooler, smoother and much more relaxed than stock. Tighter exhaust note. It reminded me immediately of a well tuned carbureted bike. The throttle dials in power linearly with AUTHORITY and allows you to dial down power to closed throttle linearly and almost seamlessly.
On and off throttle is drama free across the rev band and like I said , very carb like. Excellent.
This is from fuel cut elimination, turning off the emissions related sub-routines, careful adjustment of the injector timing, and the MAP tables.... the injectors stay running just like a carb delivers fuel during closed throttle... so when you first touch the throttle, it responds immediately and gently with no delay or jerky response.... There is no other way to achieve this type of response to the throttle, glad you appreciate my efforts here.

The bike runs cooler, tighter, and takes less throttle to get up to speed. Steady state cruise is quite a bit smoother than stock, and the engine maintains the same type of feel as when accelerating. The engine is happy at a wider range of speeds now where stock it seemed to get a little wheezy in the extremes of the rev range (below 2500 rpm and over about 8k).

The heat the bike throws is less in all situations. The feeling of mechanical strain from the engine is less. This is hard to describe, but I am less aware of thrashing, heat and strain coming from the motorcycle since the flash. For me, it was a distraction on the Concours that I was not aware of until it was gone.

Stock ECU programming is a careful strategy to get through emissions testing and is all about keeping the catalyst hot... this includes lean mixtures that are not consistent from one cylinder to the next, excessive timing retard, and generally results in vibration due to the engine fighting itself, and excessive heat which cooks the rider and the engine oil. When these emissions compliant things are turned off and re-tuned, the engine emanates a lot less heat. It will be a lot smoother and responsive to very small throttle inputs. It will last a lot longer too because there is a lot less heat to cook and wear the engine.


     Right away I noticed an obvious increase in torque in the lower half of the rev range. Over time, though, I have noticed that there is more going on than just more power here. It pulls and modulates and even sounds like a different machine. I noticed it less when riding alone, but 2 up and loaded it's a bit of a transformation over the stock bike. The torque is scalable with the throttle, there is no waiting for the engine to spin up. This area is a real departure from stock. I'm curious how Ivan does this. I spend most of my time below 5k rpm, and the the ease with which the bike operates in this range makes revving it optional. Ivan, if you can comment on this I'd like to see what you have to say about this.

Since I have access to the VVT programming on this bike, careful adjustments here and the other dependent areas have resulted in improved trapping efficiency, which allows a lot more power and smoothness to be available across the entire rpm range and at all throttle openings. This puts the cam timing in a more normal range and thus will make the exhaust note sound "in tune" instead of a garbled, gargling "out of tune" note... In addition, this allows a lot more power in the upper rpm range. VVT is used for detuning on this bike. Again, these results aren't achievable any other way.

Above 5 or 6k the bike spins up more freely and has less objection to speeds north of 130mph. Before the flash the engine felt a little strained at higher speeds. There are no such issues now.
Try turning off the KTRC, roll out in 1st gear and stab the throttle suddenly about 1/2 to 2/3 at 3800-4000 rpm and watch the front wheel instantly snap right off the ground. (don't touch the clutch, it will do it all by itself)   ;D


There is one downside I have noticed and that my fuel consumption. The mileage is suffering for me because it's hard for me to control myself to ride at reasonable speeds. (This is a 'me' problem, clearly.) At normal speeds mpg often shows in the 50's 2 up, which is better than it was stock, but I have been having too much fun to measure it. I'm going to need to work on my impulse control.
     Overall, I dont think I would want to own a C14 without the flash. It has meaningfully improved how the bike runs in every riding situation I have encountered over the last 1000+ miles. I appreciate the flash more the longer I ride with it.




It's so much easier to ride it like a sportbike because of how quick revving the engine is after my programming and how happy it is to be at any rpm or throttle opening that you care to put it at... It always feels like it's "right there" especially at small throttle openings.

Oh come on Lee Ving, it's not that hard to behave yourself... maybe you need a few more years, maybe install a wrist limiter?  :pokestick:

I got 48 mpg on my last tank (before I put the full exhaust on it at the end of the season), this included mostly legal speeds (under 75) and some spirited riding with 3 quick blasts up to 160 on my 8/10 mile test straight. (still accelerating hard and ran out of road)

Great engine for all reasons and all seasons !!


Ivan
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www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm
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Offline Lee Ving

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2018, 10:51:27 pm »
 160 eh? And I'M the one with the problem?... :nananana:

Didn't realize the VVT worked like that.  Thanks for the replies.

Offline Ivan_ipp

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2018, 01:12:32 am »
 ;D
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: 1000 mile report
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 03:34:45 am »
The Delkevic has a nice looking muffler, no heat issues with the bags. It's a lot of product for the money, but the absolute finish and perhaps longevity will be better with a big brand. My muffler has gotten louder more quickly with use vs past experience with the more expensive brands. The 17" muffler is a perfect length for the bike with bags on.
 

I have an 18" Delkevic SS muffler that I have had for almost 8 years and it still looks good.
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