Author Topic: AMA Article - Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems  (Read 5767 times)

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Offline Bergmen

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Re: AMA Article - Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2012, 03:06:07 am »

...motorcycles require a certain level of minimum operating skills in order to ride in a manner that lowers the risk level to acceptable levels. It is incumbent upon responsible and skilled motorcyclists to acquire these skills in a controlled and safe manner, and practice them on a regular basis. Maximum braking skills are developed with practice and proper scrutiny of operating conditions and a carefully controlled escalation of incremental increases in brake application forces. The better one is at this, the safer they will be, but this is only one component of being an all-around safe rider. There are many others, obviously, but I am only dealing with braking skills here.

+1
although I want to emphasize that if the rider should learn and become proficient with the max braking techniques in a motorcycle course if before practicing and perfecting the technique on your own at speed.

I agree. I hope everyone understands that I am aiming my methods at motorcyclists who are at least at the intermediate level, not beginner or novice. I would expect that anyone who chooses a motorcycle in the class of the Concours (C10 or C14) would have some experience in riding and have progressed to the level of acquiring a 1000cc sport/touring motorcycle.

I do understand that there are first time riders who start off on the C10 Concours. For those individuals, my methods do not count, they need to establish at least an intermediate level of riding skills (and significant familiarity of Concours handling traits) before heading down the max braking trail.

Dan
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 03:19:48 am by Bergmen »
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Offline danodemotoman

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Re: AMA Article - Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2012, 05:00:40 am »
  I understood right away what Dan stated.
 A man's gotta know his (bike/tires) limitations.
 Saved my a** a few times.


Maybe I should have been more clear about my definition of "hard stop". I am suggesting a work-up program to approach the threshold of determining on-set of wheel lock-up. Working up gradually as I indicated.


Offline JAYTH1

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Re: AMA Article - Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2012, 08:45:41 pm »
      The irony of the fact that this thread started on the same day that I was involved in an accident that abs would  have prevented is somehow fitting. I will go on record here "i practice threshold braking every ride" That said, when that left turning s.o.b. came 'cross my bow I locked the front...I had the presence of mind to release the skid, but man I was still gonna take a ride in his trunk. I countersteered for daylight and reapplied...at 38 degrees that was too much to ask....The front tucked and down I went. I'm positive that the outcome would have been different had brake modulation been removed from the equation. Can I lap faster with it...I don't think so...will it make me a better rider..once again nope..But I gotta tell ya, it woulda helped here. The real world is where i ride and in it abs is a real asset.
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Offline Tim S

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Re: AMA Article - Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2012, 01:41:19 pm »
ABS is great. I have been in the rain several times and the C-10 was worth at least one pucker per ride.....Guess my right hand is the larger problem, but I have always thought that ABS would have made these stops easier or at least with less drama. The Avons, modulating the brakes and maybe a little divine intervention saved my butt a few times. I now have an 09 with ABS which I am happy to have.

None of us are on the race track when we are on the street, and focus is always occasinally lacking.....if you're being 100% honest. Then there are the cagers and critters which are completely different stories. This is where the technology can help. If you are always on game, always focused, always where you need to be, proper speed, approach, you can see animals getting ready to jump out into the road, etc, then you are just plan AWSOME!!! :) That's about all I can say.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 02:02:03 pm by Tim And Trish »

Offline Mcfly

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Re: AMA Article - Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2012, 02:05:45 pm »
ABS also comes into play when 'unseen' road conditions make threshold braking nearly impossible.
Any change in road condition when putting your bike in an emergency stop will change the dynamics
of how the bike stops.  A patch of wet pavement, or oily spots at intersections will turn your brake into
a skid very quickly.  ABS will react to these changing conditions that you might not see.
Motorcycles have a much smaller contact patch of rubber on the road, and are light, so skidding
is an easier thing to accomplish especially on lighter sport bikes....  ABS can only help prevent that, IMHO.

As far as rider mechanics go, I don't think ABS changes anything.  Brake OR turn still applies...
simultaneously this is still going to hurt.  Owners of bikes equipped with ABS should be familiar
with how the system works and feels, but should still practice existing skill sets taught in MSF classes.

I would not hesitate to own an ABS equipped motorcycle.  Now, if someone would kindly donate one...  ;)
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Offline MikeP

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Re: AMA Article - Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2012, 11:33:26 am »
I'm an old guy and been riding 49 years, since i was 11. My frist "bike" was a Honda CT90 trail. The first thing my Grandfather tought me was to control the front brake. "Boy the front brake can mean life or death and one finger is all you need" That has saved my neck and made me a much better motocrosser the my Bud's. My 2012 C14 is my first bike with ABS. I have had a few "Panic" stops with it. But I still only need one finger on the front brake and light rear brake. Never set off the ABS. I know it's there for when i run out of talent. If you lock it up you are out of control. With ABS you still have a chance to avoid the danger. You live and die with the front brake.
If you ride and are affraid of the front brake, sell the bike and get something with four wheels. To learn how to control the front brake by a cheap old dirtbike and learn to corner in dirt while applying the front brake without locking it up. when you learn the feel of what the front wheel is doing and how much pressure it doesn't take you be a better rider. My Late Grandfather garoonteees!

Offline gtskev

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Re: AMA Article - Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2012, 04:11:28 pm »
IMHO the article (and our discussion) dances around one of the most valuable aspects of ABS--the ability to practice panic stops and really get close to the threshold with MUCH less danger of hitting the ground.  I do practice (not every day, but often) and always check my ABS on the gravel in my driveway every time I leave the house.  ABS makes practice a much more efficient process by eliminating most of the opportunity to crash.  I have two ABS bikes, one of which is still the fastest stopping production motorcycle ever made, and have been able to lift the back tire off the ground in an Experienced Rider Course with both of them.  I didn't feel it either time but the instructor verified that it did happen (not by much...).  It is an amazing confidence builder during practice and I recommend it to anyone considering ABS.  Also, the other thing about a good rider beating ABS on dry pavement is that you know the stop is coming.  The stress of an emergency or panic stop affects everyones capabilities--to what degree is incredibly variable, even in the same person--but I firmly believe that practice will improve whatever performance would have been initiated without practice.  So, that's my theory and I'm sticking with it. :nananana:
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Offline Mcfly

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Re: AMA Article - Myths Busted: Anti-Lock Braking Systems
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2012, 03:30:10 am »
A patch of wet pavement, or oily spots at intersections will turn your brake into a skid very quickly.

I should add those pesky thick white lines on the road.  Had a real hard brake today, kept
the rear wheel free til I hit the white line going across the road, and the back tire locked.
Fortunately, it was at low speed, I felt it, and compensated... not as fast as ABS would though.

The schmuck in the minivan in front of me (doing 50 mph) decided to make a right turn at the last second...
...no signal... one little left brake light (not the 3 equipped on the thing) and a wee bit of poo
in my shorts.
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