Author Topic: Americans......  (Read 7775 times)

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Offline MarneRider6

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2011, 10:40:34 pm »
CRocker,

DOD means "Deptartment of Defense". DOD requires all military and civilian employees to wear  hi-vis clothing or reflective vest when riding a MC on a military installation.\

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Offline Matt

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2011, 05:28:24 pm »
Seeing a rider in high viz and wearing a red or orange helmet...
 Do we have a circus in town? :rotflmao: ClownsOnMotorcycles

 Seeing blue lights on some leo's vehicles makes me think my '01 Blue Connie is working the hiviz for me? ;)


And the worst part is that he can still get run over, someone pulling in front of him or possibly worse. Just because someone didn't see them for what ever reason. Yes it is smart to try to be seen. But I'll take defensive riding and things like modulators over Tron suits any day. Just my preference. Using all methods would be your best defence. But even that might not save your life. And if your not ready to accept that, maybe a Volvo should be in your future!  :))

I have to take issue with this point of view. Yes, motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car.  But, what is the downside to wearing hi-vis equipment? It might not help, but it might, and the possibility that it will is a pretty powerful motivator.

Put another way...why do people ignore something that could save their life? Is vanity that important?

Offline Scott Bechler

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2011, 06:03:55 pm »
My number one risk by far is the brown four, legged bastxxds with antlers, and I don't think they give a crap what I'm wearing. They're still going to run out to me to say "good morning".  :-\

Offline Sport Rider

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2011, 06:13:43 pm »

I have to take issue with this point of view. Yes, motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car.  But, what is the downside to wearing hi-vis equipment? It might not help, but it might, and the possibility that it will is a pretty powerful motivator.

Put another way...why do people ignore something that could save their life? Is vanity that important?

Personally, I don't consider it an addition to safety to warrant spending the money on it.  I prefer to put more stock in improved defensive riding skills.  Have you considered painting your bike that color to make it more visible?   That would be the next logical step to your question.

Offline Matt

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2011, 06:30:52 pm »

I have to take issue with this point of view. Yes, motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car.  But, what is the downside to wearing hi-vis equipment? It might not help, but it might, and the possibility that it will is a pretty powerful motivator.

Put another way...why do people ignore something that could save their life? Is vanity that important?

Personally, I don't consider it an addition to safety to warrant spending the money on it.  I prefer to put more stock in improved defensive riding skills.  Have you considered painting your bike that color to make it more visible?   That would be the next logical step to your question.

That is a logical argument. I was thinking more of the case where you are at the store looking for gear. The abundance of black gear would lead me to believe that there is some factor that is compelling people to choose black over a higher visibility, and safer, color choice.

Thanks
Matt

Offline Sport Rider

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2011, 06:37:22 pm »

I have to take issue with this point of view. Yes, motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car.  But, what is the downside to wearing hi-vis equipment? It might not help, but it might, and the possibility that it will is a pretty powerful motivator.

Put another way...why do people ignore something that could save their life? Is vanity that important?

Personally, I don't consider it an addition to safety to warrant spending the money on it.  I prefer to put more stock in improved defensive riding skills.  Have you considered painting your bike that color to make it more visible?   That would be the next logical step to your question.

That is a logical argument. I was thinking more of the case where you are at the store looking for gear. The abundance of black gear would lead me to believe that there is some factor that is compelling people to choose black over a higher visibility, and safer, color choice.

Thanks
Matt

I do tend to gravitate to reflective, but not necessarily the hi vis colors.  I guess my bike reflects that too (pun intended) since I have the reflective tape on the saddle bags.  I personally don't look only for black though.  I suppose more often than not it's a choice of something that matches the bike colors.  I tend to look for leathers as opposed to textiles as well.  It's only my personal opinion, but if I go down, I want leather protecting me.  I guess that's because I've slid across racetracks before and the leather worked great.  I suppose I'll just stick with what works for me.  :)

Offline MrPepsi

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2011, 07:16:24 pm »

I have to take issue with this point of view. Yes, motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car.  But, what is the downside to wearing hi-vis equipment? It might not help, but it might, and the possibility that it will is a pretty powerful motivator.

Put another way...why do people ignore something that could save their life? Is vanity that important?

Personally, I don't consider it an addition to safety to warrant spending the money on it.  I prefer to put more stock in improved defensive riding skills.  Have you considered painting your bike that color to make it more visible?   That would be the next logical step to your question.

That is a logical argument. I was thinking more of the case where you are at the store looking for gear. The abundance of black gear would lead me to believe that there is some factor that is compelling people to choose black over a higher visibility, and safer, color choice.

Thanks
Matt

I have never, ever been out riding or driving and all of a sudden noticed a bright orange or yellow helmet BEFORE I noticed a headlight. Never ever ever, not even close. I do not believe HiViz makes a difference and yes Vanity means a lot to me.
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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2011, 08:16:50 pm »
Seeing a rider in high viz and wearing a red or orange helmet...
 Do we have a circus in town? :rotflmao: ClownsOnMotorcycles

 Seeing blue lights on some leo's vehicles makes me think my '01 Blue Connie is working the hiviz for me? ;)


And the worst part is that he can still get run over, someone pulling in front of him or possibly worse. Just because someone didn't see them for what ever reason. Yes it is smart to try to be seen. But I'll take defensive riding and things like modulators over Tron suits any day. Just my preference. Using all methods would be your best defence. But even that might not save your life. And if your not ready to accept that, maybe a Volvo should be in your future!  :))

I have to take issue with this point of view. Yes, motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car.  But, what is the downside to wearing hi-vis equipment? It might not help, but it might, and the possibility that it will is a pretty powerful motivator.

Put another way...why do people ignore something that could save their life? Is vanity that important?


Because vanity is somewhat important. I've noticed that most Hi-viz gear tends to look dirty and beat up much, much quicker. It tends to look dirty and faded pretty quick. (Aerostich is known for this problem with the Hi-viz). I also do not feel the need to buy extra gear that requires more maintenance to keep it looking decent, just so that hopefully someone "may" see me. I want gear that is functional, cool and stays clean looking as much as possible. Like I've said before, I don't believe hi-viz does all that much for you.
 Maybe I should re-paint every bike I own in neon colors to match the gear that you don't see all that well to begin with. Maybe they might see that. Of course, then I'll really look like I belong in the circus. I would rather spend my money on lighting and or modulators that actually does get noticed, day or night. Hopefully you don't depend on your hi-viz gear too much. It doesn't hurt to use it, but neither does most other gear that doesn't get noticed any better most of the time.

Offline 2linby

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2011, 10:42:39 pm »
Personally I don't understand how vanity can override the responsibility you have to yourself to be seen in traffic?  While brighter colors and retro reflective gear will not physically stop a car or deer or anything for that matter, from running into you, it might be just enough of an edge to get someones attention soon enough to prevent a collision, and if there is a collision the motorist will have less of an excuse for not seeing you.

Motorists are conditioned to watch for other motorists not motorcycles. The elephant looks for other elephants, because only another elephant, (for the most part) can be a subtantial danger to them. Conditional blindness occurs and there is not much we can do to overcome this other than making our presence well known and comanding attention. Using your high beam, flashing the brake lights using turn signals and hand signals should be in everyones daily repertoire and used often. But to ignore adding visual aid for the conditionally blind such as brighter clothing and helmets and retro reflective gear to your person and bike, to me is a wasted opportunity to be seen and be safer.  Breaking up the background is a proven affect in geting noticed. Solid dark colors tend to blend and I for one don't blend well.

Accuse me of being a safety nut, but even the guy getting shot out of the cannon has studied his art and has taken every precaution available to him to ensure a safer landing.

Next time you are riding or driving at night be honest and tell me the person walking or jogging or riding a bicycle or motorcycle who is not wearing brighter clothing and or retro reflective gear is just as easy to see as the ones wearing dark clothing. I think you know the answer.

You ride your ride, I'll ride mine...  But mine will be brighter and much more noticable!  ;)

CAN YOU SEE ME???   ???  ........CAN YOU SEE ME NOW???.....   :P 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 10:51:43 pm by 2linby »
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Offline BJ_CT

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2011, 10:52:34 pm »
I sorry but when I get to the point where I'm more worried about crashing, injuries and everybody is trying to kill me.... I sell the bike and walk away...

The voices in my head keep telling me everyone's out to get me.  (Uncle Sam came the closet to succeeding followed closely by my kids, then my wives).  Been that way since I discovered monsters under my bed as a child.  Are you saying it's not true??? :-\

Temporary hijack over...

Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2011, 07:38:35 am »
 More for the debate!  :))  Hi viz is great for stationary people in or on the side of the road because they are in the open and stationary to fixate and identify as a road hazard. But the hi-viz colors do almost nothing when your on coming to other vehicles. From the side, it's already too late because they haven't seen you and probably already started pulling in front of you. From behind it might do something if they are not paying attention and were going to just blow through the stop sign your stopped at. But then again, probably not because they are not paying attention anyway.
 I look for motorcycles. On coming motorcycles are normally first visible because of the lighting, mainly the headlight. Hi beam is more noticeable, but can still get lost in the back ground. You do not normally see hi-viz until your right on top of the motorcycle. It's just not visible behind the headlight beam, fairing, other obstructions and back ground that it still blends into. If you want to be seen to on coming traffic, I suggest using either the triangle lighting method, a head light modulator or both. That gets you noticed. Then using defensive riding techniques such as staying out of blind spots helps. The only place I think that Hi-viz would really make you more visible is on the hi-way. It could make you more visible to traffic flowing with you. But again, defensive riding should do that anyway. But it might help there.
 Reflective clothing at night is a good thing. But of course in my opinion, riding at night is stupid anyway. I only ride at night if I really need to. Other vehicles seeing you is mainly dependant upon your lighting and theirs. If your not in their headlights. Well in that case, having reflective anything is almost worthless. Which is way more hazardous than riding in the day without any precautions. Also when riding at night, your ability to see road hazards both on and off the road are greatly diminished. So I prefer not to be off the bike in the dark. IMO, it's foolish to ride at night when not absolutely necessary.
 I'm not putting down people for wearing hi-viz clothing to try to protect themselves a little better. IMO, it doesn't hurt. But it may not really help either. So it's my choice at this time not to spend money for gear that wind's up looking dirty so quick. Although I would stand out better in the mall keeping shopping carts from running over me.  :-* 

Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2011, 10:23:56 am »
I wonder if there's ever been any real research done on the effectiveness of Hi-Viz clothing.  All the comments I've seen here are purely anecdotal and based (solely) on personal opinion.

I practice defensive riding. I use additional lighting and I wear Hi-Viz.  I figure that it can't hurt anything and should I ever be involved in a crash where a cager violated my right of way I think it will definitely counter the "I didn't see him." excuse.
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Offline Sport Rider

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2011, 11:31:26 am »
I'm pretty sure loud pipes get you noticed sooner than hi viz.   :))

Offline Matt

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2011, 07:26:28 pm »
I wonder if there's ever been any real research done on the effectiveness of Hi-Viz clothing.  All the comments I've seen here are purely anecdotal and based (solely) on personal opinion.

I practice defensive riding. I use additional lighting and I wear Hi-Viz.  I figure that it can't hurt anything and should I ever be involved in a crash where a cager violated my right of way I think it will definitely counter the "I didn't see him." excuse.


At the bottom of this web site:

http://www.bikerhiway.com/motorcycle-safety-info/motorcycle_safety_gear.html

There is a link to a study about the visibility of riders.

Thanks
Matt

Offline MrPepsi

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2011, 08:27:59 pm »
Sorry, one of the suggestions by that website was daytime headlights.
Not really a relavant study for this discussion.

Quote

At the bottom of this web site:

http://www.bikerhiway.com/motorcycle-safety-info/motorcycle_safety_gear.html

There is a link to a study about the visibility of riders.

Thanks
Matt
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Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2011, 10:48:04 pm »
The below quote is taken from the study cited above:

"Fluorescent clothing may reduce motorcycle injuries and death. British researchers who analyzed 463 motorcycle drivers admitted to hospital following a road traffic incident and 1233 other drivers (control group) to evaluate how wearing conspicuous attire affected the risk of having an accident. They found that with reflective or fluorescent clothing the risk of a crash injury was reduced by 37%, with a white helmet by 24%, and with headlights by 27%. ("Motorcycle Rider Conspicuity and Crash Related Injury: Case-control Study")"

Apparently there is some coorelation to wearing Hi-Viz and risk of a crash injury.  I will note that the sample is fairly small (less than 2000 total) and drivers (both auto and motorcycle) go through much more training in England than they do here in the USA.

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2011, 12:15:22 am »
But at the same time they say this:  "No association occurred between risk and the frontal colour of drivers' clothing or motorcycle."  I'm a little confused.   :o

Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2011, 07:31:30 am »
<snip>
Apparently there is some coorelation to wearing Hi-Viz and risk of a crash injury. 


I guess the hi-viz must have better armor or something if it protects you better from injury in a crash!    :))   Sorry Jim, I couldn't resist.

Offline 2linby

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2011, 05:55:12 pm »
Try wearing this suit!

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Offline Cap'n Bob

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2011, 09:07:34 pm »
You'll be a goner for sure. The drunks running off the road will get you!  :))

Offline Rideit

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2011, 02:46:32 am »
My name is Leo and I wear Hi-Viz.(Yes the fluorescent green type.)  Why? An old man with 35 plus years riding experience once told me " keep your eye balls always moving looking for every thing that could possibly happen before it happens every time your on the bike and make yourself visible"  It is my job to look for all types of blind spots, road conditions, left hand turners, steal plates, railroad crossings, lane sharks, etc. My/our job is to anticipate and react to possible dangers and do my/our best not to become a victim. High-Viz helps. No one can tell me I blend in with anything when wearing it, period.                (OK maybe a school crossing or construction sign)

You can be a great cage driver and yes paying attention and still not see black bike, rider covered head to toe in black, next to a black van or behind the dark SUV. People nearly always say the same thing when they are interviewed after hitting a bike " I did not see them". Why? Because they did not see them!!!! Blending in, in other words, being camouflaged to not be seen, with your surroundings is OK if you don't mind the increased risk of being hit. I mind the risk and I wear High-Viz and yes I KNOW, I am not cool. 

As for the comment about not seeing riders in High-Viz from the front. I have a big upper body and lots of Hi-viz glowing through my windshield and my head light is always on high-beem in the day. I have seen other riders with windshields and cowlings wearing High-Viz. They do not blend in and the sight of them is striking and makes you do a double take. Moreover, they give me, a fellow High-Vizzeralist, the best waves so I think they are cool.
 
A lot of riders don't know squat about bike safety and riding skills. I met a guy about a month ago, at a cigar shop, who was riding a big beautiful HD. We talked about riding and you know what he shared with me. I swear to God he said this, and he had been riding for 15+ years, he told me that "[he] never uses his front brake". Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guess what? Surprise!!!! He never read Hough's books on Proficient Motorcycling. 

I regularly get my stones broke, by other riders, for wearing "it" High-Viz.  I guarantee if you are a smart and safe rider and you wear "it", you will have an advantage. I promise it will not change your bikes performance, handling, or sound. I ride hard, I ride fast, I take turns quickly, & I have fun. I am not cool!!!!! I wear Hi-Viz and always will, and I am proud to say I nearly always use my front brake, yes, even, properly when in turns :-)

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2011, 11:45:36 am »
So, Leo, what color is your bike?  If it's not something really bright that stands out like your vest, then you are also accepting some amount of risk with that.  My point isn't to pick a fight, just that we all measure risk levels differently and what is acceptable for some isn't for others.  I personally might tease you in jest, as I do with a couple friends that wear hi viz, but that's just for fun among friends.  If you want to wear it, it's fine by me.   :beerchug:

Offline conando

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2011, 03:51:20 pm »
Personally I think we should all have rotating blue, red, green, and yellow super bright LED lights mounted 2' above our heads, but then we would probably be abducted by aliens.

One the serious side, I get a lot of comments about how visible I am with Hella driving lights, and my TIR3 LED brake light. With that I can wear camouflage and be safe.
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Offline Rideit

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2011, 05:10:23 pm »
I wrote the above long winded op ed to say I think High Viz, particularly the ugly green stuff I wear, really helps me stick out. It was fun writing the little ditty and I look forward to spouting off more in the future. To any and all who took the time to read my rant I say ride-it any way you like  . . . but ride it often!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :truce: 8)

Offline WillyP

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Re: Americans......
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2011, 10:33:56 am »
I appreciated the fact that you did not come off as being all safety Nazi like... Though it is clear you have strong feelings about hi-viz gear.
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