Author Topic: Starting left or right turn from a stop  (Read 2993 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline V8shadow

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Starting left or right turn from a stop
« on: October 05, 2012, 03:32:30 am »
  I just graduated my ABATE class but forgot to ask them how to start out into a left or right turn from a stop.  Since I did so much reading on how top heavy connie is, I find myself paranoid and steering through a turn rather than leaning.  It makes for a wide turn and I barely make the line most of the time.  This is especially worse when I see anything on the road like gravel or sand.  I start off going straight, and flank real wide into a 90 degree turn instead of what I see alot of other riders do.  Ive watched some videos on this, but would like to hear from connie riders.
Ken
1986 Connie, "Broken Pony"

"Ignorance of the consequences should never be mistaken for bravery"

Offline Pistole

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 845
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2012, 04:37:33 am »
- eyes and head look in the direction where you want to go.

.

Offline S Smith

  • Northeast Area Director
  • Officer
  • I Need a Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 5190
    • COG Northeast Area Home Page
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 3184
  • Membership Level: Administrator
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2012, 08:42:08 am »
- eyes and head look in the direction where you want to go.

.

+1  Turning the head and looking where you want to go is crucial. In addition, turn the handlebars in the intended direction before starting out to put the bike on the correct path of travel immediately.

Get out to a parking lot and practice the slow speed and
limited space manuvers learned. They will help you build confidence and acclimate to the new to you bike.
| Steve Smith | COG #3184 | MSF/CONREP RC |

There is more to be gained by members raising hands saying "I'll do that" instead of pointing fingers saying "nobody's doing that."

Offline Ranger Jim

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3478
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6720
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 12:04:16 pm »
I'm curious as to what your ABATE class covered. Was it an MSF approved Rider class? What the earlier two posts stated is absolutely correct: TURN YOUR HEAD and LOOK where you want the bike to go (stop looking at the ground right in front of you), turn your handlebars in the direction you want to go and EASE the clutch out.  Find an empty parking lot and go practice. 

IMO, the "top-heavy" issue of the Connie is overstated. Yes, she can be top-heavy; particularly at low speed but it's much more pronounced when you are slowing  (e.g. coming to a stop) than when you are starting out. Be that as it may, go practice. Practice some emergency stops too.
JIM CULP
OtP Jr. Slave Laborer (Safety)

No one is a TOTAL failure; they can always be used as a bad example.

Offline ManWorkingHere

  • Blue Streake
  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1023
  • 2001 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000A
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 9292
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2012, 12:36:45 pm »

+1  Turning the head and looking where you want to go is crucial. In addition, turn the handlebars in the intended direction before starting out to put the bike on the correct path of travel immediately.

Get out to a parking lot and practice the slow speed and limited space maneuvers learned. They will help you build confidence and acclimate to the new-to-you bike.

I also recommend challenging yourself to find a parking lot that has some slope to it as you practice.  Practice turning upslope from a standing start, and also then downslope.  Having that natural slope to work with your turning process is good to have in your bag of riding tricks. YMMV.
after 2012 Rally
  Concours 2001 (Blue Streak)  COG#9292

Offline Victor Salisbury

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1259
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 3673
  • Membership Level: Event Host
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2012, 12:58:36 pm »
All the above, keep in mind, since the speed is obviously low, counterbalance like in the limited space exercise (the "u-turn box"), friction zone on the clutch. Taking a couple of paddle steps is allowed, though, you just don't get as many cool points  :))  With practice, it becomes much easier.
Start out with both feet on the ground, turn the handle bars all the way, head and eyes up looking in the direction you want to go, ease out the clutch, take a couple of paddle steps if you feel the need and proceed. As you get better, you can knock it out in a heartbeat. But it takes focused practice IMHO.
Now, sharp turns to the right tend to be the most challenging, the throttle is in your gut and your clutch arm is extended to it's max,,,,,yeah, that can make it interesting.

The turn from a stop used to be specifically taught in the older versions of the beginners course. (remember "left foot down, both feet down, turn the handlebars, look at me, come to me, ahhh, the days LoL)
Not so anymore.  Now, the thinking is,  during some of the rider movements/reseting during the conduction of a couple of the beginners rider course (BRC) exercises the riders will be doing turns from a stop, with out being told (thinking stressing about it) they are doing a turn from a stop.  They make it happen.
For the experienced rider course (now BRC2, dependent on the state), the asssumption is in your continuing rider education, you've already completed a BRC and are now getting ed-u-ma-cated more so you've already done turns from a stop under the careful observance of a Rider Coach

Vic Salisbury
COG #3673 
'97 Connie "The Grinch" 
Sarasota, FL 
www.cog-online.org 
Stupid Hurts! Wearing protective gear is much more comfortable.

Offline Sport Rider

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6840
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8603
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 07:47:25 pm »
Ken, you're not alone.  I struggle with this one too.  I try to practice it whenever I get a chance, using the techniques that have been mentioned, particularly about looking where I want to go and not so much at where I am.

Offline V8shadow

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2012, 09:24:07 pm »
Thanks all.  I think the hardest part is the friction zone riding as opposed to working with the maneuver fully in gear.  My ABATE is a fully apporoved course, and I obtained my "M" endorsement for my license by it.  I must admit, in retrospect I don't think I am looking ahead into the turn when I do it from a stop, which I know is making it much harder than it needs to be.
Ken
1986 Connie, "Broken Pony"

"Ignorance of the consequences should never be mistaken for bravery"

Offline 2linby

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3711
  • I rode today, did you?
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 5539
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2012, 03:41:45 pm »
We teach.
1) Fully turn the handlebars in the direction you want to go
2) Fully turn your head in the direction you want to go
3) Slightly lean the bike in the direction you want to go
4) Eeeeease out the clutch

As already stated, turning your head to look is critical not only with this move but in all cornering.
"2linby" Get it? "Tooling by" "Everything is simple, but nothing is easy".
Ex NWAD, AAD, COG #5539, IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor, Mentor 2001 Sonic Blue  166K and counting!
http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BBG)
http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip

Offline Mcfly

  • --2006 Concours--
  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3800
  • What've I done!?
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9921
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2012, 12:12:06 am »
Less throttle through the turn... accelerate very slowly.  You barely need to be rolling to get
your feet on the pegs... A tiny bit faster is all you need to get through the turn.  Practice.
Don't worry about the "Top Heavy" crap... just ride the dagg-nabbid motorcycle!

Riding alone?  You can choose where you start your turn from, especially in a turn lane.
I try to stay in the middle or the outside part of the turn lane.  Getting all the way to the right
for a right turn gives you less turning room, and makes you initiate the turn later (curb).
Albeit sometimes it is necessary to start from a 'bad spot'.

Not to worsen this, but wait till you've got someone on the back....fidgeting....

Performance -- Rear: C14 Shock - Front: Sonic 1.1 w/emulators, Fork Brace - SISF Jet Mod & Ex Cam Sprocket - Tokico front brakes
Comfort -- Russell Day Long - Madstad - Cruise Control

FL/SE Assistant Area Director

Offline V8shadow

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2012, 01:07:10 am »
  Well guys, I practiced it today.  Just stayed within a rock's throw from the house and used the nearby subdivision and thier stop signs.  I did that and practiced just how sharp I can make those u-turns.  Coaching myself, I had to get over the fear of tipping over and not go wide in the right turns.  Once I started looking like I was getting it and wasn't crossing the center line, thats about the time I was ready to rest my clutch hand.  I have always been real happy with my overall control of the bike ever since I started riding again in June.  I averted running into a Dodge Ram that was approaching the intersection while I was doing my right turn practice.  I saw myself going wider than I wanted, so I let off the throttle to sharpen the radius of the turn.  I'm especially proud of myself for not panicking at all when I was doing a sharp right turn at about 20MPH when my rear tire found some gravel.  I felt the quick slide to the outside, but just rode right through it, letting the bike do most of the work staying true.  I was happy with myself about that. :)
Ken
1986 Connie, "Broken Pony"

"Ignorance of the consequences should never be mistaken for bravery"

Offline Sport Rider

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6840
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8603
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 11:50:40 am »
We teach.
1) Fully turn the handlebars in the direction you want to go
2) Fully turn your head in the direction you want to go
3) Slightly lean the bike in the direction you want to go
4) Eeeeease out the clutch

As already stated, turning your head to look is critical not only with this move but in all cornering.

Bob, question for you.  Step 1 has always bugged me.  If I have the bars at full lock and take off, then have to make a correction, it eliminates steering correction.  How do you overcome that part of the equation?  I know you can adjust with balance and weight shift.  is that the only other option?

Offline Bob_C_CT

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2101
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 9544
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 02:38:01 pm »
+2 I really dont think I turn the bars to lock to make a 90 degree turn from a stop to an active roadway either. I turn bars to apex point of turn by the time I reach apex I lean the bike into the turn and roll on the throttle. Ill have to check next time on bike.
Careful letting off gas in corners if you are leaning.
If you are practicing turns like parking lot slow speed turns you need to practice the clutch transition zone and light rear brake technique
97 C10,ZRX Front, Meanstreak rim

Offline V8shadow

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2012, 07:12:43 pm »
No no I never let off the throttle to sharpen turn radius, only let it down a bit. 
Ken
1986 Connie, "Broken Pony"

"Ignorance of the consequences should never be mistaken for bravery"

Offline kennyw

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 3
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 03:29:16 am »
This is a great confidence builder:  Go to an empty parking lot and practice a standing start U-turn with the handlebars hard against the stop.

I do this a couple of times a year and it usually takes only a couple of tries to nail it in either direction.  To the right seems a bit harder than to the left for me.

I have one problem stop on my commute.  Its right turn at an uphill, off-camber stop sign at the end of the interstate off-ramp.  The turn is greater than 90* on a busy 2 lane road.  And, its especially slick when wet.  I think my parking lot practice has saved my bacon at this stop sign several times.


Offline Slybones

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 6953
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 06:03:45 am »
We teach.
1) Fully turn the handlebars in the direction you want to go
2) Fully turn your head in the direction you want to go
3) Slightly lean the bike in the direction you want to go
4) Eeeeease out the clutch

As already stated, turning your head to look is critical not only with this move but in all cornering.

Bob, question for you.  Step 1 has always bugged me.  If I have the bars at full lock and take off, then have to make a correction, it eliminates steering correction.  How do you overcome that part of the equation?  I know you can adjust with balance and weight shift.  is that the only other option?

I am not Bob, but Huh?
2003 Concours, 121K
2005 GL1800ABS, 52K
COG #6953, IBA 28004

Offline Sport Rider

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6840
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8603
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 11:48:50 am »
We teach.
1) Fully turn the handlebars in the direction you want to go
2) Fully turn your head in the direction you want to go
3) Slightly lean the bike in the direction you want to go
4) Eeeeease out the clutch

As already stated, turning your head to look is critical not only with this move but in all cornering.

Bob, question for you.  Step 1 has always bugged me.  If I have the bars at full lock and take off, then have to make a correction, it eliminates steering correction.  How do you overcome that part of the equation?  I know you can adjust with balance and weight shift.  is that the only other option?

I am not Bob, but Huh?

If I start out to the left with my bars already at full left, and once I start moving I need to make a correction to the left, with the bars already locked, I've got no where to go with them.  making any better sense?

Offline Mcfly

  • --2006 Concours--
  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3800
  • What've I done!?
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9921
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 09:33:34 pm »
If I start out to the left with my bars already at full left, and once I start moving I need to make a correction to the left, with the bars already locked, I've got no where to go with them.  making any better sense?

Follow me here...  IF you're steering is fully locked to the left, you are turning as far left as the bike can go...  It's theoretically
impossible to make a correction to the left... if you have to make a correction to the left, you started in the wrong spot.  ;)
Performance -- Rear: C14 Shock - Front: Sonic 1.1 w/emulators, Fork Brace - SISF Jet Mod & Ex Cam Sprocket - Tokico front brakes
Comfort -- Russell Day Long - Madstad - Cruise Control

FL/SE Assistant Area Director

Offline Sport Rider

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6840
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8603
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 10:41:01 pm »
right.  That's why I was asking for input.  If I start out full left and due to balance or some other factor I need to correct more to the left, I can't.

perhaps the first statement "fully turn the handlebars in the direction you want to go" does not mean to full lock?  I was just looking for a little clarification. 
 :)

Offline Mcfly

  • --2006 Concours--
  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3800
  • What've I done!?
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9921
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2012, 01:01:02 am »
I do not turn my bars to full lock, unless the situation demands it, like a backstreet u-turn OR
in every parking lot I need to make a turn in. at the end of each aisle.
I found this one of the places that overshooting a turn will bite you in the @ss really quickly.

In most cases, I tend to do like Bob, and turn to the apex of the turn then go.  I also have my
idle set high for most folks, at about 1300, which allows me to get the bike rolling with no
throttle input if need be.  I got used to this during pre-SISF carbs, where low throttle was
really lurchy. 
Performance -- Rear: C14 Shock - Front: Sonic 1.1 w/emulators, Fork Brace - SISF Jet Mod & Ex Cam Sprocket - Tokico front brakes
Comfort -- Russell Day Long - Madstad - Cruise Control

FL/SE Assistant Area Director

Offline Sport Rider

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6840
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8603
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2012, 11:45:10 am »
The situation I'm envisioning is parked on a 2-lane street at the curb and wanting to leave in the other direction.

Offline Pistole

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 845
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Starting left or right turn from a stop
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2012, 12:06:14 pm »
The situation I'm envisioning is parked on a 2-lane street at the curb and wanting to leave in the other direction.

- yeah . That is tricky , everytime.

.