Author Topic: Being Seen - Conspiquity  (Read 3885 times)

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Offline Greg Habel

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Being Seen - Conspiquity
« on: October 24, 2008, 07:53:00 am »
I didn't see you is one of the top reasons drivers of cars claim after being involved with a motorcycle accident.  What do you do to be seen?  
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 07:54:00 am by habelsgtb »
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Offline Yuma

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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2008, 09:14:00 am »
Good Question...    While it might be legal (they did not see you)   It won't help fix the bike or rider....    If we can stay out of the accident WE are in better shape.  I have a lot of lighting both up front and in the rear!  I have lots of reflective tape/markers front, rear & sides. I have both front and rear modulators. AND I ride to be seen (With the fact that I am invisible!)    Another trick I use is I weave in my lane as I approach an intersection or when I see another car ahead of me. To catch their eyes and attention.    It all may help.    Yuma,    Summer in Yuma is not hell, but hell is a local call :-)  2006 Connie http://community.webshots.com/user/Lateck?vhost=community  
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 09:15:00 am by Yuma »
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Offline S Smith

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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2008, 09:38:00 am »
Wearing brightly colored & reflective gear, and use of light modulators can help a motorcyclist "be seen."  More important is how riders present themselves in traffic by choosing proper lane position and following distance.     Consider this scenario...  you are riding behind a large vehicle, and you have placed yourself closer to the right side of the lane with a fairly close following distance.  What does oncoming traffic see? Many will answer "nothing" and be correct, but there is more to consider.  What some drivers "see" is a gap in which they can make a left turn. And it is too late by the time they do see the rider.    Remember, if you can't see them, they can't see you. It is better to move to the left side of the lane. Also a 2 second following distance is considered minimum under ideal conditions - more would be better. Remember, to be able to stop quickly to avoid a hazard we need to account for perception, reaction, and braking time. Even if you can swerve proficiently, there is still a reactionary and execution delay.      --  Steve Smith, #3184  COG Northeast Area Director  (somewhere in south central CT)     If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
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Offline Camper Dave

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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2008, 10:01:00 am »
Load pipes saves lifes Baby!!!    (those who know me, know I had to say this  :eg: )  Dave Muir  1980 LTD1000 - Rocket  1999 Concours - Rocket II  1997 Dyna - wife's  CT-COG #3649 Merchandise Czar
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Offline Brett0769

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« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2008, 11:32:00 am »
Definitely predict what the drivers are going to do and maneuver in the lane so that they'll see you before they commit. Connie's headlight is fixed straight ahead and doesn't turn with the bars but you can still turn the whole bike to have that headlight directly on the other driver for a second or two. I don't have modulators, but even without them you can flash your brake lights manually and your high beams as well. Better to be a PITA than a hood ornament.     If all else fails in the face of stupdity, muzzle flash is a good attention grabber too. :eg:  
'06 C10  Brett Hatfield  AMA# 1019197  COG# 8229 (CDA# 0267)    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/brett0769/2793453582/" title="Trip Home by Brett0769, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/2793453582_bba89ca959_t.jpg" width="100" height="75" alt="Trip Home" />[/url]

Offline Stasch

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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2008, 11:54:00 am »
When approaching a potential issue, I'll weave, flash my brights, flip driving lights on / off.  Most importantly I slow down.  I'ld much rather start scrubbing off speed from 45 than 65.  I see a lot of guys fly through intersections at high speed with cars waiting to turn in front of them on all sides.    The biggest thing I do is ride with the mindset that I am invisible or worse, that I have a target on me that people will go out of their way to hit.    If you watch things unfold with this mindset, its amazing how many times you are right, predicting amd avoiding issues such as when someone is going to make a sudden unsignaled lane change.    This happend Tuesday on the freeway.  I was NOT in the area most riders would've been in, and that I would've been in years ago, when the car suddenly changed lanes without looking, right into that spot.    I could tell it was going to happen ahead of time.  
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Offline raulb

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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2008, 01:39:00 am »
I am beginning to think that there is nothing we can do.    I was run off the road in '05 and spent the next month in the hospital.  The girl said that she never saw me.   Yet   I had split the lane to the front of two lines of cars at a stop light, right past her open car window.  She was 2nd   in line in the right lane.  I was at the limit line in the right side of the left lane.  When the light turned green, I   punched it so I would not cut off the car in my lane when I went to the left position.  Less than 100 feet from   the intersection, the next thing I know, this car, whose driver door was even with me (and my body was even   with her body), is pulling into my lane FAST, as if I wasn't there!  She pushed me right into the raised center   divider because I could not stop fast enough.  I am probably alive because there were no cars coming in the   other way (in the turning lane).     Lying on the ground with broken ribs and a punctured lung, I heard her tell the police that she never saw me.    NEVER!!  She also claimed she wasn't talking on a cell phone.    Since then, I bought a fluorescent yellow Olympia jacket.  Guess what?  I still get cars trying to cut me off and/or   merge into me when I wear this jacket!  Very discouraging.  Maybe a flashing red 1000 watt beacon would get   their attention.    BTW.  That girl's $15,000 (legal minimum) auto insurance was not 1/10th enough to pay my over $150,000   medical bills.          
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 01:42:00 am by raulb »
_____________________________________  raulb        2003 Connie  COG #6043  CDA #281  AMA #699463    "It may not be smart or correct, but it's one of the things that make us what we are."    --Red Green, "The New Red

Offline Brett0769

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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2008, 09:00:00 am »
I think the real problem here is letting 'I didn't see him' become a legal defense. That's really what needs to change. There was once a time in this country when an LEO could get on the witness stand and state 'In my expert opinion as a police officer, he was traveling at XXmph'. It stood unquestioned until a bright young attorney threw a pencil across the courtroom and asked the officer, in his expert opinion, how fast the pencil was going. If you can't see other vehicles on the road you shouldn't be operating a motor vehicle.  
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Offline S Smith

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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2008, 09:32:00 am »
Safety is a responsibility that should be shared by all. It takes two to tango, as well as be involved in an accident.  Motorcyclists must learn to manage the risks and potential consequences of riding. It's no different than any other potentially dangerous sport or hobby.    At the same time there is a need to educate all drivers to be more aware of motorcycles... maybe to be more aware of all things. It seems that many have become way to complacent when driving. For many, our cars (and for some even bikes) have become a mobile family room. Think about what takes place in a typical family vehicle:   Family discussions and arguments, movie watching, food and beverage consumption, reading books & papers, putting on makeup, taking on the phone...      The bottom line is that we, the motorcycle rider, can not control what THEY do.  Instead we must become more perceptive and aware to identify potential hazards before they cause a conflict. We also must consider our own actions and be sure we are not doing something that puts us more at risk.      --  Steve Smith, #3184  COG Northeast Area Director  (somewhere in south central CT)     If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
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There is more to be gained by members raising hands saying "I'll do that" instead of pointing fingers saying "nobody's doing that."

Offline Roger 123

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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2008, 09:53:00 am »
It has become crystal clear to me over the years that it is indeed true, they really don't see you.    I was overtaking a car yesterday on the way home, I was right at his side (slightly forward of his side window centerline) when he came right over into me.  I always watch the driver for any sort of warning signs that they are going to do something stupid.    This guy just came right over into my lane, if he would have looked to his left to check his mirror he would have seen me.    He NEVER checked his mirror therefore he didn't see me.  The weird part is that there was no one in front of him so he had no reason to come over into the "fast" lane.    I just don't get it, how can you move your car at 65 MPH into another lane and NEVER look?  If I would have been in an 18 wheeler he would have ran right into me!!!    I will say though that the modulator makes a difference.  I've been running it for about 6 months now and have had no issues.  Traffic has been heavy the last few weeks on the freeway so I've had it off as to not annoy people, guess what?  Two near misses in that time, I'll be running it 100% again starting monday!    Roger ('07 Wee Strom)  COG 5903  Virginia Beach, VA  
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 09:55:00 am by Roger 123 »
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Offline Hikerboy

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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2008, 09:29:00 am »
I will often weave approaching an intersection with a turner, or a side street with someone waiting to turn out onto the main road. I recall on an MSF course some time ago, the instructor said that, evolutionarily, we are predisposed to take notice of things moving across the horizon (i.e., horizontally back and forth) cuz it would have meant food or danger. So some of my conspicuity efforts involve vertical markers (e.g., red vertical reflective tape of rear of bags and a riding jacket with a pattern that happens to form a strip on the rear) that would move back to catch attention.    I always have mixed feelings about the idea of flicking high beams to get attention cuz maybe some distracted idiot may think I am signalling him/her to go ahead and turn. When they're on their cellphone, they're not thinking straight!    Cheers,     Neil  
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Offline Rock

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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2008, 02:00:00 pm »
I believe if the consequences of the car driver's moving without looking - hitting something - were as severe as for us, then road safety would improve. Will not happen in our lifetime.  I wear all kinds of reflective gear and also have it on the bike. I want one of the hi viz jackets like the Brit biker cops wear, short on money now.  Got to ride like a few other have stated - like you are invisable! And slow down.    Phil  COG5879  99 'lectric  
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Offline goatmar

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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2008, 04:24:00 pm »
I've installed a HID headlight and a day after I installed it I had two people stop what they where going to do because they definitely saw me.  
Dave Muzzey  St. Charles, IL  COG#7957  '01 Connie  100K miles and counting

Offline Slybones

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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2008, 04:46:00 pm »
I voted #5, but in reality my gear is not very high vis. A voting option for 2 and 4 would be more accurate for me.     For the front - something eye catching and improved lightinng:    - I like having the LED Daytime Running Lights setup I got from Murph. I call them DRL because the lighting pattern is not worth a crap. I would not call them fog lights. But they are very bright white light when looking at them. They are very eye catching and only use 8 watts. For DRL useage they are great. I really like them. Got them mounted down low and gives a nice triangle effect with the headlight.     - Also have Hella FF50's for night time lighting needs when necessary.    - Phillips V80+ Extreme Bulb    For the Rear: something for conspicuous, brake light flashing mechanism ( hyper lights, wig wag, etc ) and a 3rd eye light if possible.    - I used to have the EC Turn Signal Conversion kit. But it leaked, got corroded and all goofed up. I have since removed it. It worked great at night, but not as visible as I would have liked in the day.    - I have a brake light wig wag that flashes     - 3rd eye brake light effect with the integrated Givi trunk lights.    - Now that I am back to a single lens, running light setup ( versus the 3 points with the EC conversion ) I am thinking about installing tailbrights on the saddle bags.   2003 Concours  COG #6953  http://mysite.verizon.net/slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm
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Offline Charlie_Gary_AAD

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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2008, 12:09:00 am »
I wanted to chose a combination of 3 and 4, but that wasn't allowed.      Later,           Charlie
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Offline Onager

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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2009, 08:11:00 pm »
And then there's the recent penchant for flat black helmets and "dark" motorcycles. Stealth? On a motorcycle?    

Offline 2linby

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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2009, 12:02:00 am »
2,3,4 and 5.  However the most important saferty device you can equip yourself with is education. Be it formal or self read it is my position (no pun there) that the more you know the safer you will be.    As far as "black gear" being in vogue unfortunately it has always been the most popular color (or lack thereof) for MC gear including helemts.  This is however changing as more riders become aware of the consequences of not bein seen.    AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks!  Northwest Area Director  COG #5539  AMA #927779  IBA #15034  TEAM OREGON MC Instructor    http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby  http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip)  http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)  
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 12:04:00 am by 2linby »
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Offline Boburns

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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2009, 11:17:00 am »
Quote
Load pipes saves lifes Baby!!!    (those who know me, know I had to say this    )
   Loaded with what? Jus' askin'  ;)    Bob "Flylooper" Burns  COG #5887  E Clampus Vitus, YB#1  '04 FJR 1300    
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 10:19:00 am by flylooper »
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Offline Lord Jim

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« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2009, 03:49:00 pm »
Forget about cagers looking into their side mirrors and seeing you...most of them have the mirror adjusted so that it shows the entire side of their car! They can perhaps see about 2-3 feet of the adjacent lane.  
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Offline Pastor Andy

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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2009, 10:20:00 pm »
I like this discussion.  I have only been riding for 4 years now.  In order to get on two wheels I promised my wife I would take the rider safety course.  I did and I always remember that training.  However, I learned from the guy that introduced me to the joy of two wheels the extended four lessons that I will never forget.  1- always ride sober  2- know that drivers can't see you  3- ride like everyone on the road is out to kill you and   4- who really wants to know what it feels like to fall off the Bike riding 75MPH?    Great wisdom and #3 has helped me avoid many of the "i didn't see him" that many drivers may have said.    also why I try and attend the blessing of the Bikes each spring.  98 Windsor Green Connie
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Offline David_Clancy_ON

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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2009, 08:19:00 pm »
A few points.  - didn't see him is suspect. Who will say 'Ya I saw him but went ahead anyway"?  - however, it is true folks see what they are looking for. More folks need to look for bikes.  - we can be high viz - dayglo orange that cones etc are coloured is seen, people are conditioned to look for the colour and be cautious. The bright yellow/green unnatural colour is also good.  - remember when you're exceeding the speed limit, a driver at an intersection has the right to assume you are not speeding and judge distance accordingly. The smaller size of the bike may also cause them to misjudge distance.  - however, the main accident cause is inattentiveness and terrible driving habits. I am convinced that riding a motorcycle makes one a better cage driver.  - don't flash your high beam, to many it means go ahead    A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what it was built for.  
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 11:24:00 pm by David_Clancy_ON »
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