Author Topic: Car tires on motorcycles  (Read 30617 times)

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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #100 on: February 03, 2011, 01:31:00 am »
Ron,
Welcome.  Interesting place to make an interesting first post. LOL  Glad to see you're a COG member.  Again, welcome.

Doug,
Your rear rim is the same as all early Connie rears.  It's the FRONT that's wider on the post 93 models.  However, while most of us are doing 17" conversions on our Connies looking for more tire options, there is a 15" conversion that can be done too.  I think this is your rim for that. a ZL1000 Elliminator. It's wider than a Connie rim, but not sure by how much.  I think it's pushin' the limits of space though IIRC.
http://tinyurl.com/6374e9t

This is a bolt-on if I remember correctly.  Dan about had me talked into it a couple of years ago and I'd still like to try it out for curiosity's sake.  Just sayin'.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 01:32:38 am by Rev Ryder »
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Offline danodemotoman

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #101 on: February 04, 2011, 06:39:48 am »
  No problem Doug,

 I have developed a thick and righteous skin on the subject. Hee hee.
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 My current 15" tire and so far favorite CT is the Federal tire and has no clearance problems but is tight.

So DANO,
I read about the Valkirie and the 15" rim conversion but didn't find the CT size-that-fits for the 16 inch 2006 rim (wider I believe than earlier C10s) I do 90% vertical slab riding (.001 horiz riding  :P ) and I am interested in getting the milage from a ct. I already am accustomed to the transition with a quickly becoming flat rear tire. You can pm or email me with the info since it is sooo controversial and deadly.   :-\ ... dougnkitty@juno.com

Ron, I assume the 92 Connie is NOT on a CT and I'm guessing you ride something other than a Connie WITH the CT?..

Offline adolfR

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #102 on: August 22, 2011, 06:15:46 am »
Car tires on motorcycles? I'm not sure if it is safe. I think it is dangerous to use car tires to motorcycles since the tires for cars are bigger than a normal motorcycle tire. Safety should still be the priority in driving. If this is the practice of other people, using car tire to their motorcycle, then I think Goodyear Tires should make tires for motorcycle. Goodyear is one of the best car tires makers in auto industry. I believe the main reason behind the company's unfailing success is innovation. Right now, a new innovation was presented to the public by Goodyear. According to a Monday press release, Goodyear is creating a new tire that will not only monitor its own pressure, however will re-inflate the tires as needed for maximum safety and performance.The business has not mentioned a time frame when the technology will be available to consumers.The business has dubbed the new system Air Maintenance Technology, or AMT. Article source: Goodyear develops a tire that inflates itself.

Offline Zorlac

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #103 on: August 23, 2011, 08:52:23 am »
"the Department of Energy’s Office of Vehicle Technology has awarded Goodyear a $1.5 million research grant"

Do I get a free one for partly funding the research?  :o
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Offline danodemotoman

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2011, 06:52:49 pm »
 GREEN AWARD.  :))
 35k mi and more to go.  :sign0066:
 Show me the money!  :whoo:

Offline Necron99

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #105 on: August 26, 2011, 10:30:12 pm »
I only got about 20,000 miles on the car tire I had on my VTX.  But at $129 for a rear for that many miles, that was a pretty good deal, IMO, as I was getting 8k on the MC tire.

And it stuck to the road in the twisties like glue.

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #106 on: August 30, 2011, 05:44:35 pm »
If you are comfortable using a car tire, and ok with the risk then by all means go for it.  After all, safe motorcycling is all about reducing your risk to whatever level is personally acceptable to you.  I have  no problems if people want to go to the Darkside as long as they are aware of the risks/rewards.

What I DO have a problem with, is all the people insisting to people that "oh it's perfectly safe, there is no risk with it" to newcomers etc.  I recently had a conversation with a guy who was going to do it cause multiple people  (on another forum) told him it was 100% safe to do. When I pointed out the risk factors to him he was shocked as he had never thought about it...He still decided to do it since it was acceptable to HIM ..(now that he knows all sides I wish him lots of happy miles)

the FACTS are as follows

1) Car tire sidewalls are NOT intentionally designed to take the lateral stresses that a Motorcycle induces when turning
2) Motorcycles turn by leaning, car tires cannot lean as well as Motorcycle tires,  so even if you don't notice it, you ARE reducing your effective turning ability overall.


That being said there are many people doing it without problems, and for them they have accepted the risk and that's fine, but keep the facts in mind when you make your decision.

I personally will never, ever put a car tire on a motorcycle....but if you are comfortable with it then I wish you many happy miles!
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Offline Mitch

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #107 on: August 31, 2011, 02:04:14 am »
I too was skeptical of a car tire on the rear of a motorcycle.  I have worked with a major tire importer for the last 20 years and felt I knew a great deal about tires.   About 2 weeks ago I rode behind danodemotoman through some pretty fast twisties.  Dan's rear tire is a car tire.  I know it shouldn't have worked because of structural differences in motorcycle and car tires but... G** D***, that Dan can ride. I could barely keep up with him.  35,000 mile and his car tire and he was still still gaining distance. 

Ask an aeronautical engineer and they will tell you that on paper bumble bees can't fly. The surface area of their wings isn't great enough create sufficient lift. I have been stung by both bumble bees and Dan with his car tire.

I'm not advocating everyone switch to car tires, I'm just saying perhaps the loads that a 3500 lb vehicle puts on a car tire is different than the load of a 650 lb bike.  Ultimately, it works for him.  Having witnessed him ride that punk I can only shake my head in amazement.  The fact that we may not understand why it works doesn't negate that fact that it's working and has done so for 35,000 miles.
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Offline Zorlac

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #108 on: August 31, 2011, 02:18:12 am »
The basic principles of bumblebee flight, and insect flight generally, have been pretty well understood for many years. Somehow, though, the idea that bees "violate aerodynamic theory" got embedded in folklore.

According to an account at www.iop.org/Physics/News/0012i.1, the story was initially circulated in German technical universities in the 1930s. Supposedly during dinner a biologist asked an aerodynamics expert about insect flight. The aerodynamicist did a few calculations and found that, according to the accepted theory of the day, bumblebees didn't generate enough lift to fly. The biologist, delighted to have a chance to show up those arrogant SOBs in the hard sciences, promptly spread the story far and wide.

Once he sobered up, however, the aerodynamicist surely realized what the problem was--a faulty analogy between bees and conventional fixed-wing aircraft. Bees' wings are small relative to their bodies. If an airplane were built the same way, it'd never get off the ground. But bees aren't like airplanes, they're like helicopters. Their wings work on the same principle as helicopter blades--to be precise, "reverse-pitch semirotary helicopter blades," to quote one authority. A moving airfoil, whether it's a helicopter blade or a bee wing, generates a lot more lift than a stationary one.

The real challenge with bees wasn't figuring out the aerodynamics but the mechanics: specifically, how bees can move their wings so fast--roughly 200 beats per second, which is 10 or 20 times the firing rate of the nervous system. The trick apparently is that the bee's wing muscles (thorax muscles, actually) don't expand and contract so much as vibrate, like a rubber band. A nerve impulse comes along and twangs the muscle, much as you might pluck a guitar string, and it vibrates the wing up and down a few times until the next impulse comes along.
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Offline WillyP

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #109 on: August 31, 2011, 11:55:24 pm »
An interesting story, Zorlac, thank you for clearing that one up. Now, how about the one where some engineers at MIT proved on paper a Harley engine could not run?


And... No, I am not taking a swipe at Harley, I read that somewhere...
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #110 on: September 01, 2011, 02:55:23 am »
An interesting story, Zorlac, thank you for clearing that one up. Now, how about the one where some engineers at MIT proved on paper a Harley engine could not run?


And... No, I am not taking a swipe at Harley, I read that somewhere...
I thought 108 years of production already proved that.  :beerchug:


Now you;ve read it here... it must be true.
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Offline Dave Scott

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2011, 11:20:07 am »
the FACTS are as follows

1) Car tire sidewalls are NOT intentionally designed to take the lateral stresses that a Motorcycle induces when turning
2) Motorcycles turn by leaning, car tires cannot lean as well as Motorcycle tires,  so even if you don't notice it, you ARE reducing your effective turning ability overall.


Marc, I believe number 1 above might not be an accurate statement.  Car tires are designed for lateral stresses.  Both they and motocycles create them.  the question in my mind is which creates more.  Cars lateral stresses are accompanied by a 3500 pound vehicle.  Motorcycles at 600 to 800 pounds.  I'm not so sure which creates more.  Food for thought.....

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #112 on: September 01, 2011, 11:58:07 am »
It's not the amount of stress placed, it's the KIND of stress that has me concerned.

Cars usually don't have the tire "Leaning" over to the angles Motorcycles do, all their lean is accomplished in a much lower angular range.  This changes the nature of the stresses on the sidewall/bead

Does the weight difference make up for it?  Maybe, but until someone does a scientific study to prove it's safe (Not the "I can't keep up with Dan" or "there are tons of people doing it without problems" type of study) then I will err on the side of caution and advise people of the risks.

Again, I am not saying don't do it,  if you are ok with the risk then by all means darkside away,  but don't sit there and insist to everyone that it's no risk..
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Offline Dave Scott

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #113 on: September 01, 2011, 02:47:29 pm »
I hear what you're saying.  I agree with your basic premise that there are risks introduced even if they can't factually be quantified.  unfortunately, there are folks on both side of the debate who make statements as fact without data/information to validate them. 

There are a number of things I've learned about the CT debate over the few years I've researched it.  I did try running one after some research of my own.  It didn't work for me, but I'm the type of tinker and try things.  My comments to folks are usually that they should research and determine for themselves.

Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2011, 03:18:06 pm »
NEWSFLASH!!!

I spent Monday catching 2-3' sharks on freshwater, rattlin', deep-divin'crankbaits on every cast in colors that sharks don't normaly encounter. 

Who knew?   :)


Philosophical Pragmatism has been the American way for decades.  "If the shoe fits,wear it" "If it fits, it ships" The concept is basically, "if it works, go for it" or more simply, "use what gets the desired results".  Theory and practice are not two separate things, but work hand in hand.  Sometimes theory has to change because practice calls theory into question.  Too often theory prevents accomplishment because it limits exploration.
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #115 on: September 01, 2011, 03:19:31 pm »
BTW, sharks taste like chicken.   8)
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Offline Dave Scott

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #116 on: September 01, 2011, 04:22:17 pm »
so do rattlesnakes.   ;)

Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #117 on: September 01, 2011, 05:41:27 pm »
Do rattlesnakes, sharks, car tires, or chickens kill more people each year?   :1rij:
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Offline 2linby

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #118 on: September 01, 2011, 06:09:42 pm »
NEWSFLASH!!!

Too often theory prevents accomplishment because it limits exploration.

SOUNDS JUST LIKE MY WIFE! I try some exploring to accomplish and, well, she limits me........ :-[
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Offline Zorlac

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #119 on: September 02, 2011, 11:03:52 pm »
Scary stuff! :motonoises:
Uber lateral stress there!

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Offline danodemotoman

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #120 on: September 03, 2011, 03:43:15 am »
  OMG  :-\
 Look at that contact patch!!!

Scary stuff! :motonoises:
Uber lateral stress there!



Offline Slybones

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #121 on: September 03, 2011, 03:48:46 am »
Thats kinda what I was thinking
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Offline WillyP

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #122 on: September 03, 2011, 01:43:34 pm »
LOL, that thing is leaning, what like 7, maybe10 degrees at the most, and it is scraping? It should not have car tires, it needs truck tires!
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #123 on: September 03, 2011, 08:05:09 pm »
  OMG  :-\
 Look at that contact patch!!!


Yeah, but a little exercise and a low carb diet and it'll get better.  THat's what my wife tells me about mine.   :D

Definitely not a sport tourer, but a bike tire wouldn't get him any more lean.
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Offline Paul North Jersey

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Re: Car tires on motorcycles
« Reply #124 on: September 15, 2011, 05:15:38 pm »

the FACTS are as follows

1) Car tire sidewalls are NOT intentionally designed to take the lateral stresses that a Motorcycle induces when turning
2) Motorcycles turn by leaning, car tires cannot lean as well as Motorcycle tires,  so even if you don't notice it, you ARE reducing your effective turning ability overall.

I personally will never, ever put a car tire on a motorcycle....but if you are comfortable with it then I wish you many happy miles!

Hi Marc,
I've followed this thread with much interest.  My best buddy on a VTX 1800 went to the Darkside and
reports essentially exactly what Dan reports (with fervor).  I'm not sure why, but you seem like this actually makes you mad, like your upset that someone is messing with some natural law.
At any rate, I have to dispute your first point above:  My car with a built in G meter will pull over
one G in a corner, that's lateral stress. How can you say that a car tire is not designed for lateral stress?
I say the sidewalls on a CT are designed exactly for high lateral stress (not for touching the road surface though).  Which brings me to: As Dan has said and my buddy confirms (to me), before the
CT can get to the sidewall the bike would hardpoint. The wear pattern shows that the CT never comes close to "rolling onto the sidewall". Again as Dan said, the little mold nibs are still there, and he's
feels the bike is turning harder/better than ever.  The difference is that it takes more input to get
the stiffer sidewall (damn pesky sidewalls) to flex.
Question for you:  Why do bike tires only last 5 or 6 or 7K miles?
Interesting topic.
Regards,
Paul in North Jersey (my first post)  ;D
That just sounds silly.
The evidence supports