Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Motorcycle Talk => Motorcycle Safety => Topic started by: David_Clancy_ON on July 20, 2009, 03:26:00 pm

Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: David_Clancy_ON on July 20, 2009, 03:26:00 pm
There is a thread on FJRforum.com (I own a FJR)where some owners are claiming they are successfully using Auto tires on their bike. I suggested this was not safe and that someone saying it's OK because they did it, implicitly recoomending it to others, was specious and irresponsible. For which I was generally shat upon.     Does anyone know of a credible source for actual information on why we need motorcycle specific tires and the safety of using auto tires?  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on July 20, 2009, 04:34:00 pm
What!!! Someone using a car tire on a motorbike?  How... how... how crazy is that?    Actually it's been a topic of discussion for several years on a number of forums so far.  I HAVE NOT TRIED IT, though I've thought about it some.  I do not know of ANY "credible sources" for information saying there are reasons for motorcycle tires being necessary to be like they are.  However, there are gobs of opinions virtually all coming from folks who haven't tried it.  There are also gobs of opinions and videos and pictures of folks who are doing it as we type.  I haven;t heard of any horrible things happening to anyone running a car tire yet (well, maybe one), but I hear of folks crashing on moto tires everyday. I expect that given some time we'll get enough info (thanks to brave souls who were not afraid to risk life and limb and eternal salvation to prove the roadworthiness of car tires on a bike) so that we can make a good decision.  But ny favorite saying is, "It'll never work Orville."  After all, bicycles weren't designed to fly either.    I seriously doubt that those guys running car tires successfully are hoping to get folks killed and I must assume that they are able to fulfill their own riding desires while using these tires.  But that, of course, does not mean that you or I could.    I am neither PRO nor CON about car tires and hope that no one is hurt or dies because their use is unsafe.  However, I am not one to ever stand in the way of those who dare to dream big dreams.  I even heard that that movie of guys going to the moon made in New Mexico might have really happened.  Go figure.      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Pastor Andy on July 20, 2009, 04:43:00 pm
I have a pretty good prayer life.  no need to increase it by using a a car tire on a motorcycle.  To me this is more than a bad idea....it's an incredibly bad idea.  98 Windsor Green Connie  13k  COG #8566  AMA #1084059
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Cap'n Bob on July 20, 2009, 04:48:00 pm
This topic tends to generate strong opinions. It rates right up there with oil and tire threads. I guess I'll just grab some pop corn and sit back.    Bionic Bob  COG & AMA member  First C14 CDA member #0220  2008 C14 & 2003 Mean Streak  (http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/33220/2003375907710792664_th.jpg)
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Greg Habel on July 20, 2009, 06:29:00 pm
We have a COGer who has already tried it.    Check this posting out: http://www.cog-online.org/clubportal/mboards/viewmessages.cfm?clubID=1328&Forum=1406&Topic=11378&keywords=car%20tire    Greg H from Mass, Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude  COG# 7010,a Tracey  CDA 120 (2.0)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle", 05 Ninja 250  (http://thumb6.webshots.net/t/63/663/1/23/92/2211123920053849446TvPbOP_th.jpg) (http://tinyurl.com/6n2c6z )
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on July 21, 2009, 07:35:00 am
I suggested this was not safe and that someone saying it's OK because they did it, implicitly recommending it to others, was specious and irresponsible. For which I was generally shat upon.    Everyone's entitled to their opinion and any information garnered is worth every penny you paid for it.  There are almost 10 FJR's with CT's on them over there and none have come back and said "Wow, this thing sucks, I almost crashed and died, I'm taking it off!" so I guess it can't be all that bad.    If I could put one easily on my stock C10 rim, I'd give it a shot, but would strongly suggest that no one else try it cause it's like running with scissors.    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: millerized on July 21, 2009, 08:16:00 am
:::but would strongly suggest that no one else try it cause it's like running with scissors. :::      Hey, My Indian name is "Runs With Sissors"!  Careful where you tread fella.... ;p  http://millerized.com/pegs  I'll be in the garage (http://www.yotatech.com/images/smilies/welder.gif)  COG 6425, CDA 111 a through g  (http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member8960.png)
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Paulie on July 21, 2009, 10:15:00 am
Quote
 We have a COGer who has already tried it.    Check this posting out: [url]http://www.cog-online.org/clubportal/mboards/viewmessages.cfm?clubID=1328&Forum=1406&Topic=11378&keywords=car%20tire[/url]  
   Ya, Dan has more Conc miles & experience most everyone here. Lessee, believe someone like him who's BEEN THAR DUN THAT ...or... one of the naysayers that HASN'T.    Wow, that's a tuff one. I'm stumped!  01 Conc, Mijami Floriduh  OTP 06: http://tinyurl.com/2vk9o2 route map: http://tinyurl.com/4p7pmd  (http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfi9.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfib.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfia.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/y6x7zt.jpg)
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: David_Clancy_ON on July 22, 2009, 11:33:00 am
......Does anyone know of a credible source for actual information on why we need motorcycle specific tires and the safety of using auto tires?.....    I'm sure dandeman is great rider and can ride my wheels off on any tire. Same for other darksiders. BUT I'm not looking for anecdotal stories.    What I have not been able to find is SCIENTIFIC, MATHEMATICALLY SOUND surveys and ananlysis. Where can I see a published university research paper on motorcycle tires or industry publication on the matter?    Please don't tell me about ten guys you know who are darksiders or that you have never heard of anyone getting killed on those tires. However, if you know where I can find the requested information I'd appreciate it.    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on July 22, 2009, 12:44:00 pm
Why, do you intend to actually mount one if you can read the right white paper?      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Paulie on July 22, 2009, 01:40:00 pm
I'll go out on a limb & take a SWAG what that ofishul paper will cornclude:    Stay offa all them murdersickles. Thay'll keel ya, durn tootin!    Or thereabouts.  ;)  01 Conc, Mijami Floriduh  OTP 06: http://tinyurl.com/2vk9o2 route map: http://tinyurl.com/4p7pmd  (http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfi9.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfib.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfia.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/y6x7zt.jpg)
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: 2linby on July 23, 2009, 12:24:00 pm
David,    All kidding put aside you will not find any paper of the sort your are looking for.  The time effort and money required to write such a study would be required substantial funding by a reCOGnized research group and giving the application I seriously doubt anyone would pick this one up. More money is and was spent on behalf of the cotton growers industry on researching why men in the north worn pajamas more than men in the south.    Right now there is only, as you say, anticdotal research, documentation and evidence. But the ones doing it are bona-fide experienced riders with much skill and intelligence to undertake the task. And although the write-ups and individual research is not certified by an academy or an institution they are thorough and well thought out. Even with a "official study" I doubt too many people would undertake the change, more due to misconceptions or inability to do the modifications required.    For now I'll stick to MC tires, but I do applaud the efforts of these guys as this is innovation in the making.    AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks!  Northwest Area Director  COG #5539  AMA #927779  IBA #15034  TEAM OREGON MC Instructor    http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby  http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip)  http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on July 23, 2009, 02:13:00 pm
why men in the north worn pajamas more than men in the south.    Bob,  I really don't want to know why a guy's wearing the knees out of his PJ's but if if you meant "wore", well, that's easy, cause it's hotter in the south!  :p        
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on July 30, 2009, 07:47:00 pm
 MORE TRACTION IN ALL CONDITIONS AND ATTITUDES   That's what I'm talking about!  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: David_Clancy_ON on September 18, 2009, 04:24:00 pm
Dave,    Bridgestone certainly does NOT recommend using passenger car tires on motorcycles. Following is an excerpt from our data book:         NEVER MOUNT PASSENGER CAR TIRES ON MOTORCYCLE RIMS.     Mount only
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: NCDave on September 29, 2009, 07:38:00 pm
oh heck...it's just not worth the words.        
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: David_Clancy_ON on October 09, 2009, 10:04:00 am
PS It's illegal in Ontario.    If you're in a situation when a sharp eyed police officer or insurance adjuster notices a car tire on your bike, it will likely be really expensive.    Maybe it's just not worth the money :p  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 11, 2009, 12:51:00 am
 I shat on Ontario.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on October 13, 2009, 12:54:00 pm
Ummmm, are you trying to convince Us, or yourself?  :confuse:    As to the legality in Canada, don't you guys have a "stunting" traffic law that can result in a $10,000C fine?  I just don't like the Govt being quite that far up my posterior, JMHO  ;p  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Robert_Elliott_GA on October 13, 2009, 02:12:00 pm
Saw a news article the other day where they fined a trucker for smoking in his truck.  Charged with smoking in a workplace.  That's government regulations going too far.  http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSTRE59855D20091012      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: conando on October 13, 2009, 04:34:00 pm
Quote
 I just don't like the Govt being quite that far up my posterior  
   Ontario = ouch!  Where do I find a rear guard? I could sell a lot of them up here!    BTW I recently saw a Triumph Rocket III and a Honda VTX 1800 with car tires in my butt unfriendly province. I know one of them, but I saved my breath since he gets 45000 miles out them or so he says.    Car tires belong on cars. They were designed to go on cars. A person who puts cars tires on a motorcycle wouldn't argue over the fine differences between various bike specific tires because they wouldn't be able to tell the difference, either that, or they are too cheap to buy real motorcycle tires. Tires manufacturers have spent a lot of time, energy and money coming up with bike specific tires that are racetrack proven. If you want to drive your bike like a car or just save money, put car tires on them. I ride (not drive) a bike. Another thing, I can tell when my rear tire squares off and I don
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Greg Habel on October 13, 2009, 05:57:00 pm
Guys and gals, moderator Greg here...  Please, easy on the political digs/bashing (Ontario, etc).  We've tried hard to keep them out of this forum.  So far we've been pretty good but once it starts...    Now back to tire talk!  Greg H from Mass, Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude  COG# 7010,a Tracey  CDA 120 (2.0)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle", 05 Ninja 250  (http://thumb6.webshots.net/t/63/663/1/23/92/2211123920053849446TvPbOP_th.jpg) (http://tinyurl.com/6n2c6z )
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 13, 2009, 10:45:00 pm
Which motorcycle tire brand and model other than what came on the C10 bike does Kawaski offer on a 'white paper' with proper engineering support?   Show all the documentation of available tires for the bike that Kawasaki approves of.   Which motorcycle tire manufacturer will recommend a tire that is more economical than their own?   Some of these type of questions asked on a ct are ignored when shopping for MC tires? Yes.   A ct capable of supporting the side stress of a multi thousand # weight of a car leaning into a turn won't support another vehicle weight a fraction of that?   I totally understand anyone who chooses their tire for their reason. I don't have to agree or disagree.   Be it their choice.   But don't make up tire criteria for the choice against one that is not used in another choice.   Again, my personal results based on an experiment exceeded my expectations on traction in all conditions and attitudes'. The increased value of miles per dollar is an added incentive not the the major decision.   I don't care if no one else uses a ct on a C10. I post my experience riding, maintaining and upgrading my mount like many others. I don't use many of others  choices.        
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: 2linby on October 13, 2009, 11:09:00 pm
I've come to the personal conclusion that if the tires are black and round, I'll try them.    This has been my Connie tire journey so far:    Dunlops 700 series  (Severe cupping and rear squaring off)  Dunlops 205 series (2 sets) (Severe cupping on front only)  Metzler ME880 (Too tall, too slow in corners & they ride like freaking iron!)  Michelin 89X (front only) (one of the best ires evern made for the Connie)  Michelin 90X  (set) (One of the other best tires ever made for the Connie)  Michelin 100X (set) ( THE best tires ever made for the Connie -Bite me Michelin for discontinuing them!)  Avon 45/46 series (two sets)(very nice handling but at the cost of wearing out too quickly)  Michelin 50 bias (front only)(so far so good! currently on the bike)  Chen Shing (rear only, twice) (Cheap, but mileage so far very good first one over 12K)    I don't advocate Dan's choice, and probably won't do the same, (but you never know) however there is ample evidence with the Connie, FJR's and Wingers that the choice of a rear CT is beneficial if not desirerable.    So whats wrong with Ontario?? Never been there........    AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks!  Northwest Area Director  COG #5539  AMA #927779  IBA #15034  TEAM OREGON MC Instructor  133K and counting!    http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby  http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip)  http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 14, 2009, 10:35:00 pm
 Is Ontario where Jeff had his 'spensive Valentine radar detector confiscated during a stop?   I am not bashing... you can have one if it is not turned on per Jeff.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: tom_epp_NC on October 15, 2009, 11:03:00 am
i just read that article about the truck driver in ontario, WOW!!!!!!  looks like big brother is settled in big time.    hey dan, so what happened? did jeff forget to turn off that radar detector?    as far as this whole car tire thing goes, to each his own. i didn't think they made a tire skinny enough to even try something like that. i guess my major concern is that you know when your tires are getting close to the end of their life and you can feel when you come off the flat part in the middle where the tread is less and you lean into a turn that transition can be a little scary. you know you have good rubber for the turn but i've found that sometimes it can feel like you're falling off a cliff when you first start to lean in. i just wonder what that would feel like on a car tire when you're riding the corner of the tire into a turn.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on October 15, 2009, 11:38:00 am
I dunno, I think it looks kinda cool myself!    (http://i34.tinypic.com/28gv05l.jpg)  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: tom_epp_NC on October 15, 2009, 12:24:00 pm
oh yeah i think it looks really cool but if i was going for looks i guess i would've got a harley. what would look really cool is a nice fat slick like you see on pro stock drag bikes  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 15, 2009, 03:54:00 pm
hey dan, so what happened? did jeff forget to turn off that radar detector?     I don't think he was aware of the law in the Ontario province.   He asked the officer if he could get the unit returned ... but that did not happen.   That was a $400 detector? Used for a few years.      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: tom_epp_NC on October 15, 2009, 04:02:00 pm
ouch!!  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Brett0769 on October 20, 2009, 03:50:00 pm
Can somebody explain the confusion on this? The difference between the tires is obvious. Motorcycles lean, so the contact area on the tire has to be rounded. Car tires do not lean, so they have a flat contact area and can therefore apply more layers of rubber and a deeper tread. Using a car tire on a motorcycle would have to be very dangerous because when you lean into a turn you're raising the tire up on a corner creating a very small contact patch with the road and putting stress on the sidewall. If you did a lot of highway driving, I would expect you wouldn't notice any shortcoming on the tires at all. The problems wouldn't occur until you were in a curve or were swerving to avoid an obstacle, when the rear tire would lose traction and you'd go straight into the obstacle you were trying to avoid or fly off the road. Entering a curve too fast to maintain traction is the number one cause of single vehicle accidents on motorcycles. A tire with a smaller, harder contact patch while leaning would make that type of accident more prevalent.     Science simply confirms what should be common sense, it isn't a replacement for it.    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: oldsawfiler on October 20, 2009, 09:08:00 pm
Brett, I don't understand the physics of it, but I know that Dan can "corner" with anybody on his conk.    I think that the sidewalls flex and therefore the tread stays relatively flat to the road surface.  This actually gives the car tire a larger contact area in corners than a MC tire would have as it rolls up on to the side of the tread.  No, I will not be trying one soon if ever.  I just know that from watching Dan disappear in the distance that it does work very well for him.  (http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/74/174/4/61/38/2828461380102410461FFUbXC_th.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2828461380102410461FFUbXC)  COG # 8062  AMA # 1084053  ROMA or Scarlet harlot acording to my wife
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on October 20, 2009, 09:53:00 pm
If you don't understand it or think it's obviously foolish and dangerous, runs counter to sound engineering practice, and is an anathema to proper motorcycle handling,  I don't think you should put one on your motorcycle. :gasp:    I read enough to know that there are more instances of people removing a given brand of motorcycle tire because they don't like it than the almost one person I've read of removing a car tire after trying it on a bike.     BTW, some crazy Goldwingers put rear MC tires on the front with the directional rotation arrows in the reverse direction, heretics!    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 21, 2009, 12:58:00 am
 Confucius say 'eye of beholder or heart of experience?' (ok I made that up)   If you really want to know the basics are presented on this URL as I can't 'splain' this to every Ricardo. :   Granted at the time it was also a view point that the ct was not viable on a sport tourer. Times are a changing.    http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/general-discussion-f6/    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 21, 2009, 01:25:00 am
 Or this one:    http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Brett0769 on October 21, 2009, 11:56:00 am
http://mc.bridgestone.co.jp/pdf/mcintroe.pdf    Read this. It's pretty clear on the differences in forces between cars, motorcycles and their tires.     It's very risky, like riding without a helmet. 9,999 people may get away with it every day for a year, but the one who doesn't isn't going to be walking away and telling his story.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on October 21, 2009, 01:20:00 pm
It's very risky, like riding.    FIFY  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Brett0769 on October 21, 2009, 05:06:00 pm
Uh uh.     According to that paper from Bridgestone, bikes lean to 50 degrees and car tires max at 5 and run on sidewall at 30 degrees, meaning at that angle you're riding on pure sidewall. Also, the camber thrust produced by car tires is half that of a motorcycle tire, meaning the sidewalls are deforming at speed. That's when the tire's going to fail, with all that centrifugal force pushing you to the outside of the curve. Riding is risky, but it can be mitigated by gear and safe habits. What you're talking about here is defying the manufacturer's recommendations to make it significantly riskier for the apparent purpose of having to change your tires half as often.     If it's a risk that you're willing to take upon yourself and you're well informed about that risk that you're creating, by all means do it and I hope you never have cause to regret it. But don't recommend it to others, particularly those with less experience than yourself that look to you for good advice. And certainly don't present it as an equitable solution to the manufacturer's recommendations, because it's not. It is presented as secret invitation with a paraphrased: 'Don't try this if you're not comfortable with it' but it should be presented as 'This is contrary to the manufacturers specifications and is dangerous, do not try it unless you understand the risks and have a great deal of experience.'  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: David_Clancy_ON on October 22, 2009, 01:07:00 pm
Very well put Brent, you're much more literate than I. In my crude way I said (else where) re darksiders - if you want to take risks go the F ahead but to recommend it to others is irresponsible. Cheerleading, even with a phrase like "don't try this" implicitly is a recommendation.    Thanks for finding the Bridgestone tire design discussion for us.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Paulie on October 22, 2009, 03:20:00 pm
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Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Brett0769 on October 22, 2009, 04:45:00 pm
Paulie,     Your many disclaimers have severely confused me, causing me emotional duress and preventing me from participating in any gainful activity for the past 20 minutes. I intend to file suit for damages (lost work and an optometric examination) and reasonable attorney's fees, including $4/e-mail that I send him. My family and my cats will also be filing for their emotional duress in dealing with my emotional duress. You will be liable for actual damages, punitive damages and attorney's fees, both ours and yours.     Or we can settle it now for a ribeye, baked potato and half a dozen Natural Lights.     It's up to you.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: oldsawfiler on October 22, 2009, 09:33:00 pm
Brett, can we make that a class action  against Paulie?  (http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/74/174/4/61/38/2828461380102410461FFUbXC_th.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2828461380102410461FFUbXC)  COG # 8062  AMA # 1084053  ROMA or Scarlet harlot acording to my wife
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: tom_epp_NC on October 22, 2009, 09:43:00 pm
OMG! paulie you're nuts! i got about half way through and couldn't read anymore...lol...non-milk fat?    brett, i agree with you 110% on this whole subject. i must say that info that was posted from "the dark side" was some very interesting reading. would i try to put some sort of car tire on my concours? i highly doubt it? if i was building a drag bike that had enough horse power, it would have a tire that looked like a big old slick to go on a car but it would still be a motorcycle application designed tire. i just can't believe they actually found something they could use. not really sure why that guy wants to put his valkerie through all that abuse, sounds to me like he should be riding a gsxr, busa, or a zx14. referring to his pipe scraping, peg scraping and roasting tires off the back. i would however be interested in taking a bike more like ours for a test ride with the tire on there. just to see.... you can't tell me your curiosity wouldn't want you to at least go 5 miles down the road to get a feel for it. again, i think it's crazy but i am interested in reading what these guys are willing to share with us. guess i'll just sit back and enjoy the show.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 22, 2009, 10:43:00 pm
If it's a risk that you're willing to take upon yourself and you're well informed about that risk that you're creating, by all means do it and I hope you never have cause to regret it. But don't recommend it to others, ...     Brett,      The insinuation is I have recommended this mod to others. I have not. I will not. With all the tire threads some asking for tire recommendations... you do not see me recommending the CT.   I have reported my experience and did not ask permission. My experience had been good. I have thought to get one of those buttons some have on their shirt mine would say: "Ask me about my car tire". hee hee   Cheers and happy riding.   Paulie dude! You crack me up>>>!!   BTW, this year installed radial tires on the Honda '85 V65 Sabre and they work very well. The MAGGOTS on SABMAG reported the V65 responded well but the V45 had too much frame flex for the radials.        
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: tom_epp_NC on October 22, 2009, 11:16:00 pm
hey dan, are you the guy running the CT on the connnie?  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 23, 2009, 04:20:00 am
 Yes Tom. Have been using a CT on the conk since Apr 2008. About 40k mi total now.   Then I started the 'Car Tire on a Connie' thread last year.   Since seeing one on a GTR in AU in 2007 I later decided to try it as an experiment.   I am very pleased with the ct as it has definite more traction tho the Nankang brand's sidewall had more flex than I will accept. The Federal with the same # of ply's is fine. Like MC tires all CT's will not necessarily give me the same handling characteristics.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Paulie on October 23, 2009, 09:38:00 am
Quote
 Brett, can we make that a class action  against Paulie?  
   Bring it on. To be fair, I reely oughtta letcha know that my gang's (Dewey, Screwem, & Howe) motto is "Are You Ready to Rrrrrrrrrrrrumble!"  :8o:  01 Conc, Mijami Floriduh  OTP 06: http://tinyurl.com/2vk9o2 route map: http://tinyurl.com/4p7pmd  (http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfi9.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfib.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfia.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/y6x7zt.jpg)
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on October 23, 2009, 09:59:00 am
Isn't a CT a green option, putting less rubber into the recycling stream or landfills?  Maybe some new age green legislation is in order?  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Brett0769 on October 23, 2009, 11:49:00 am
Uh oh, here comes the spin doctor. The green angle eh? That's a good approach; catchy, in the news, popular with the young people.     Dan, I know you don't intend to recommend it, I'm just saying it's an unintended effect of going against the grain. CTs are not designed for the way bikes use a tire. Your statement about the different handling characterstics among the tires really underscores the problem. You have the experience to recognize the different characteristics and to compensate or even take advantage of it. Inexperienced riders trying out the 'dark side' in an attempt to emulate the guys they see doing things like that are going to have crashes and get hurt. That's why I'm posting here, so those guys know there's serious danger here for them and if their motivation for trying it is just halving the cost of their rear tires, that's a big mistake.  Let's not forget how this thread got started:      
Quote
There is a thread on FJRforum.com (I own a FJR)where some owners are claiming they are successfully using Auto tires on their bike. I suggested this was not safe and that someone saying it's OK because they did it, implicitly recoomending it to others, was specious and irresponsible. For which I was generally shat upon.     Does anyone know of a credible source for actual information on why we need motorcycle specific tires and the safety of using auto tires?    Dave Clancy #5452   Hamilton ON
       Oh, and +1 on the class action suit!        
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on October 23, 2009, 01:31:00 pm
Yep, I'm starting to get the feeling you're either a product liability lawyer or really need to  pick your favorite (http://www.safety-decals.com/products.php), so that others will be forewarned of their impending doom.  :8o:    (http://www.safety-decals.com/images/products/M-19.gif)      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Brett0769 on October 23, 2009, 05:02:00 pm
Do I have to pick just one?  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 27, 2009, 12:37:00 am
        1)  Your statement about the different handling characteristics among the tires really underscores the problem.]Text     2) Inexperienced riders trying out the 'dark side' in an attempt to emulate the guys they see doing things like that are going to have crashes and get hurt. ]Text       I don't make a point to argue each post but wanted to make clear:     Often we argue with part of a sentence while ignoring the complete and result in the original context being over looked.   I say again similarly: I have used several motorcycle tires that had handling characteristics that were different from each other just like car tires do (in comparison to other car tires). Also have said prior that the ct differs to the mc tire in handling as in initiating the lean. Not sinister, different.     Because one or more individuals or organizations who have never tested the ct on a mc sez... doesn't make it more than a theory. That is why we have beta testers. Not my original idea of using a ct but made it my desire to try it.   I need to repeat again. Better traction in all conditions and attitudes which IMO is a positive factor in safety.     A rider using a rear ct for the first time will ride the bike as if riding a mc that is different compared to their existing ride. Any difference in handling characteristics is easily overcome with basic riding skills. Just as when I ride an unfamiliar bike I take it easy to learn the bike.   We have read that some have used this tire concept for at least 10 years on two wheels. No reports of crashes have been attributed to using a ct. More than one report believes it is a safer tire and less prone to puncture based on his mileage use in harsh environment like multiple trips to/from Alaska. The long wear may also be considered to be a safety factor also as less time on a worn out tire.   Emulating other riders happens all the time. Some get hurt when their attempts exceed their ability/experience.   No motorcycle tire or car tire is exempt from failure. No mc rider is exempt from making an error in riding. There are no guarantees in life. I think that is part of the excitement of riding a mc.   Economics is very important to most riders. C10 riders tend to have a rep of the bang for a buck anyway. A tire that costs 1/2 and lasts 2 1/2 times longer, and most important provides more traction in all conditions and attitudes than a mc are the reasons I use them. Economics does not exceed my desire to be safe. Riding since 1960, if I had a death wish I would have expired by now.    Liability, tort and that more $ is made on the sale of a car tire are the reasons you will likely never see any corporation(s) endorse the use of a ct on a C10. Even worse many will not install a tire one size larger or smaller than the OEM designation which is why I was changing tires in the 90 f heat in Montrose COG Nat'l motel parking lot and I was not a happy camper. The parts man was apologetic but it was store policy.   I have heard many of the opinions against using a mc tire Not one of those have used the mod. I don't WANT then to. There is at least one other C10 rider using the 16" ct. A few others have stated they want to try it. I don't mind when many say they will never try it. We don't all have the same mods om our mc's nor do we want them all.   Thankfully the expression of mc modding is not censured. Many have tried.     Ride often and safe.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: RP3_ Vancouver USA on October 27, 2009, 03:57:00 am
Hey Dan, This is Ross from Vancouver. I just bought a   ZL1000 wheel from ebay. When it arrives I'll inspect it   and likely will be mounting up a Federal for the daily   trip Vancouver to Longview. I'm sure it states   elsewhere, but what do you like for the front as a   match?    BTW and for the record --I've been looking into this   for many moons and want all the naysayers here to   realize I am a total information geek who once   calculated exactly how many revolutions my tires (and   engine for that matter) would make on a trip to visit   my grandma in Reno. As a schoolteacher, father of 12 (5   mine and 7 hers), and grandpa for 7 I am not in any way   interested in compromising my safety or setting a bad   example. However, I do believe  10-12k from a $150-$200   tire is just unreasonable - especially for a 700lb bike   that never gets ridden like it was an R1.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on November 01, 2009, 03:49:00 am
  Ross,   I have been using new old stock Michelin 89X 110R80-18 tires but are no longer available and boo hoo I only have one left in the shed. I really like these but a 120 may work better with the wider CT.   So I am not the one to suggest what you should use.     PS: I sent a prior PM to Ross that onlinetires.com had the best price.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Brett0769 on November 06, 2009, 05:58:00 pm
You guys need to read the pdf I posted from Bridgestone. At 30 degree lean a car tire is riding on less than half the contact area that it is when not leaning and it is riding on the sidewall. Claims of better handling are entirely subjective and not evidence of anything except the way you feel when you're riding on this tire, a subject about which you are clearly biased.    Objectively, as demonstrated by the tire prints in the pdf made at various lean angles; in a 30 degree lean, you have half the contact area with the road the tire is designed to provide (since it was designed for no more than 5 degree lean) and a good portion of that contact with the road is via a 1/4" thick piece of sidewall designed never to contact the road.     Initially, there was only one type of pneumatic tire. The differences between motorcycle and car tires were not arrived at by chance. They are the result of a century of engineering and testing in real world conditions.     What this is discounting is the experience and intentions of generations before you who were just as dedicated to riding as you are and who were persistently pursuing a safer, better performing tire for motorcycles. There are important performance and safety reasons for the differences in the tires. Your preferences and experiences, and those of others, with going against them, doesn't in the least bit invalidate them as facts. Car tires are not designed to lean more than 5 degrees and it is unsafe to use them in that way. The chance of failure when riding a 600+lb motorcycle at a 30 degree lean on the sidewall of a car tire is much, much higher than it is on that same motorcycle with a tire with rounded tread that maintains a consistent contact patch with the road.     If you flip a coin 999 times and it comes up heads every time, the chance of it coming up heads on the 1000th toss is still 50/50.      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Branded on November 06, 2009, 07:34:00 pm
You know you can always find someone to support which ever side you happen to be on. The bottom line is if you don't want to run a CT then don't. But if you are trying to convince others you are probably wasting your time. The guys I ride with that run CT's say they will never go back to MC tires. I don't care one way or the other, it's a personal choice. After all I have read and heard from Dan and my riding buddies, I believe that I will try one on my connie. Again it is a personal choice. I do know this, there is more danger from all the other folks on the road than from running a CT. JMO  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on November 06, 2009, 09:33:00 pm
"But if you are trying to convince others you are probably wasting your time."    And therein lies the embodiment of live & let live that's just lost on Brett.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on November 07, 2009, 12:50:00 am
 Those that can't handle the truth (concepts) will try any negative possible, like killing grandma if I ride a mc.   Truth is the ct tire has WAY MORE tread on the ground when vertical than a mc tire, AND thus more tread contact when leaned over. It is a fact and just as noticeable when riding.   Better traction in all conditions and attitudes on my C10.   Better traction in all conditions and attitudes on my C10.   Better traction in all conditions and attitudes on my C10.   Ever notice how much of the mc tread is not in contact in all attitudes, vertical and leaned?   Read it and weep.   The more the concept is attacked the more it is read the more the truth that it can be a superior and safer product stands out. For the rider that decides it to be. There will be some that try it and decide it is not their choice to continue. Choice. Don't need anybody's permission.   I sometimes meet those that scratch their heads that I ride a C10 engineered before cad-cam or whatever is current in modern mfg the 25 years after the first Conk model. They don't get it either and underestimate the product. You ride the 'old Concours'?   Seems to be rare that those who that try a mc tire go back to a mc tire on the rear.   It works for me on a C10. All others and on other bikes have to decide for themselves. Unlike the tire companies and shops I don't charge $150 per tire and $75 per install. Follow the money and connect the dots to industry statements.   Thanks for playing and keeping the thread alive. :)  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: tom_epp_NC on November 07, 2009, 02:16:00 am
dan, i want to sincerely thank you for all the trials and tribulations with the ct on connie. i really enjoy reading this thread. i think i'm being dragged (or is it drug?) to the dark side...lol...  you wrote    Seems to be rare that those who that try a mc tire go back to a mc tire on the rear.    i'm guessin you meant those that try the ct rarely go back to the mc.  that was one thing i was wondering, does anybody go back?  i've got a new set of 205's with about 3k on them so i'm hoping i'm good for a little while. so far so good with them but i was really disappointed with how few selection of "stock tires" there are for this bike. i felt like i was looking for tires for my 82gs850g.  i think i read on here some where that you have better traction in all conditions and attitudes on your c10. my other question would be what's it like maneuvering at parking lot speed? is it much more stable? i'm on an 04 without a fork brace(on order from murph, he was out of stock:( ) and the front end can be pretty shaky at times. i don't think i'm ready to go out and buy another rim and get a tire and try it but if someone had one that they were willing to let me try on my bike or let me try theirs for five or ten miles, i can't say i wouldn't be interested.    thanks again, tom :)  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: RP3_ Vancouver USA on November 07, 2009, 04:30:00 am
According to my statistics professor in college if you indeed flipped a coin 999 times and it came up heads, the chance of getting heads again is 999/1000; a final toss of tails would be considered an outlier and would be discarded in any scientific investigation; the coin you are flipping is flawed!    Bring on the darkside! If we lived in fear of new ideas and failed to examine the possibilities of others' notions, we would all be walking to our respective destinations, scared to get on the back of a four legged beast, let alone straddle a beast that can cover more that 60 meters (about 200 feet) per second .    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on November 08, 2009, 01:07:00 am
 Yes Tom,    I'm guessin you meant those that try the ct rarely go back to the mc.  that was one thing i was wondering, does anybody go back?    thanks again, tom      I typed that twice and still got it wrong!   I personally have heard of two riders that tried the CT and went back to a MC tire.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: RP3_ Vancouver USA on November 08, 2009, 06:34:00 am
Online tires has the Federal on backorder. They called me today and wanted me to take a Nexxen. I have checked out the Nexxen at tire store and told them I'd wait.    I have the new wheel bearings in the Eliminator wheel and the Bridgestone 709 for the front has arrived. Now considering tackling the mount/dismount myself vs. $25 at local Bent Lever.    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Grizzly on November 08, 2009, 09:02:00 pm
quote:    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  There is a thread on FJRforum.com (I own a FJR)where some owners are claiming they are successfully using Auto tires on their bike. I suggested this was not safe and that someone saying it's OK because they did it, implicitly recoomending it to others, was specious and irresponsible. For which I was generally shat upon.     Does anyone know of a credible source for actual information on why we need motorcycle specific tires and the safety of using auto tires?     Dave Clancy #5452   Hamilton ON     ----------------------------------------------------    I think that this might be helpful.  http://mc.bridgestone.co.jp/pdf/mcintroe.pdf      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Grizzly on November 08, 2009, 09:25:00 pm
Oops, Didn't notice that it was already posted on here. How'd I miss that? I find the thought of the CT interesting but think the info on that link should be taken into consideration.    I've seen a video of a guy on CT's and it seemed to work fine, but he was on a cruiser. I don't Race my bike around scraping my knee in the corners but I wonder if my Connie'd still end up on the sidewall.     If I was the kinda guy that loved cruisers and didn't mind scraping my feet at slight angles, I'm pretty sure I'd be on CT's.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on November 09, 2009, 01:52:00 am
I admit I did not read the entire Bridgestone article or even most.   But, I did notice that the images of tread contact, ct v/s mc, that the car tire appeared to have more contact area at all attitudes, vertical and lean angles. That agrees with the my riding experience. Another point stated is that the two tires are mostly the same construction other than the bead area stiffness extending further into the sidewall on the mc and of course the across tread radius. I can feel that difference in sidewall stiffness. There is a ct sidewall shift but also have found that it is not the same amount/rate on all c/t's. That is why my choice so far is the Federal tire where the shift is much less noticeable.   I wonder if the slide rule guys who wrote the article had ever tried a ct on a mc to back up their article? Ha ha, sincerely doubt that but again did not read it in entirety. How was the article based upon? Likely included what they thought they knew on the subject. Fair And Balanced report? I on the other side of the river have my suspicions.   Like most I pulled from the article what I wanted to? Human nature when supporting any position. Very difficult to be neutral.   Now hearing that the rear Pilot GT's mc tires are being phased out. Hard being a rear 16" these days.   Dan      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Brett0769 on November 10, 2009, 07:29:00 pm
The article is just science. Measured results of a test, results that are reproducable in test after test regardless of the opinions of the tester.     The pictures of tire marks show two things seemingly plain to me, though I accept that others could see it differently. 1) the car tire's contact patch varies based on lean where the motorcycle tire's contact remains approximately the same. Little variance in the amount of contact with the road for the mt, big variance for the ct. 2) at 30+ degrees, the car tire is riding on the sidewall. Half of the contact patch at 40 degrees is sidewall, ~1/4" thick.     The conclusion I draw is that that variance between the amount of tire touching the road through my lean would be unpredictable and dangerous and having a 1/4" section of rubber between me and the abrasive road surface increase the chance of the tire failing as opposed to having the tread in contact with the road. Those are my opinions and reasonable ones I think. The variance in contact patch and riding on sidewall are not opinion though, they are fact; they are clearly what happened in the tracks presented in the article.     I understand what you believe about these tires and that your belief is very firm and I affirm that you are 100% entitled to your belief. But that belief is depriving you of a critical eye. It is causing you to dismiss facts that could benefit you in preference to your beliefs. You went so far as to try to refute the article, admittedly w/o having even read what was in it, because you are so entrenched in your belief.    Bridgestone has no dog in the fight. They're going to sell a tire of one sort or the other. They state facts and observations in the article, unconvoluted by opinion or belief, in pursuit of a tire that is demonstrably superior in a particular application to the products of their competition. One area very important to demonstrating superiority, is safety.         Ross, the chance of getting heads when flipping a coin is 1 in 2 and it never changes regardless of how many times or coins you flip. Send your old Stats prof an e-mail, he'll confirm it for you. Statistical analysis of a dataset would provide for exclusion of anomalies, but it won't alter the chance of an individual result. The theory is that if you have anomalous data, it will eventually come back to the norm if the set is large enough. Alternately, I'll be more than happy to put up an even bet of one dollar against your thousand if you want to bet on the results of the next toss of a coin that's come up heads 999 times in a row. ;)      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: RP3_ Vancouver USA on November 11, 2009, 02:50:00 am
I think you have your notion of a wager backwards.   :confuse:  However, this scenario was specifically used as the   basis for a discussion on the difference between theory   and reality by said professor. My point was more   directly that in the aforementioned scenario the coin   is surely flawed and therefore the 999/1000 analogy is   speculatively theoretical.     BTW - This thread is fun! I wonder if we could have as   much fun debating investment strategy, politics, or   "kids these days."   I really like political cartoons. We surely have great   fodder for the artists these days. I hope our children   aren't simply told what tires they will be allowed to   use on their motorcycles - assuming, of course, that we   haven't all been legislated into cars in the   (stated/supposed) interest of our own safety.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on November 11, 2009, 09:43:00 am
There's really not much debate in investment strategy, just show me the money over the last 10yrs.  Sorta like  this (http://content.members.fidelity.com/mfl/summary/0,,31617K105,00.html) vs. this (http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?Symbol=GE&CP=0&PT=10)   And the best tire is the one you don't crash on.  :p      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on November 12, 2009, 01:27:00 pm
 No.No.     (1) No one using a car tire has reported any experience or tire condition of riding on the side wall.   ct's used on a mc do not use the sidewall for cornering. Repeat, repeat, repeat.   Oooooohhhhmmmmmm. :)   Could it be possible? Not on a Concours IMO. It does not happen even when I go into my 'sport mode'. The 'tits' on the side wall of my ct tire are still there after the tire is worn. there is no abrasion from contact of the road surface on the sidewall.   The tread that does wrap around shows little or no tread abrasion at the edges. Tread wrap is not a sidewall feature on a ct. What little tread that does wrap is tread. On a mc, yes more of the sidewall is tread and is designed for that including the more stiff sidewall construction. Keep in mind that most and all the ct's I have used do not have a flat tread radius. The image of a tire radius that is 'flat' reminds me of the bias tires of my youth. The modern radial is not your grandfathers car tire!   I would have to have the bike nearly laying on it's side for contact of sidewall to road surface.     2) RE: Bridgestone article photos: regardless of the variance in the amount of ct tread contact when vertical or leaned there is more road contact that a mc. Which is why  'I' say 'more traction in all conditions and attitudes'.   Statements to the contrary are not reality much less science.   My riding experience is not classroom. My Dad would say 'school of life'. We say 'Ride to live, live to ride.... and live the tell about it'.     3) When a tire thread comes up about recommendations I do not insert the ct choice I have made. uh , maybe once but that is not where i want to put my .02 and respectfully understand that is not what the poster is asking.     Stating my experience is not necessarily promoting it. Take what you want from it or not. I will stand my ground tho based on my experience.   In my experience those who argue against the use should really read the reports of those using them as most if not all the concerns will be addressed. That will not convert but at least maybe less repetition of inaccurate statements/opinions in contrast to actual use.    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Brett0769 on November 13, 2009, 01:42:00 pm
Quote
(1) No one using a car tire has reported any experience or tire condition of riding on the side wall. ct's used on a mc do not use the sidewall for cornering. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
   That's not what I'm seeing here.    (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2777/4100986794_5dd172725b_o.jpg)    If the car tires don't touch sidewall in curves what happens? Do the sidewalls flex and collapse, distorting whenever you lean? Do the tires remain rigid so that you go up on the corner of the tread and have a 1/2" wide contact patch? Explain to me how your reality differs from these tire prints. I really don't understand.    
Quote
Bridgestone article photos: regardless of the variance in the amount of ct tread contact when vertical or leaned there is more road contact that a mc. Which is why  'I' say 'more traction in all conditions and attitudes'. Statements to the contrary are not reality much less science.
   Excellent argument for proving the world flat. I can see flat ground to the horizon in all directions and have for all my life. There are mountains rising from it, oceans embedded in it and I've traveled thousands of miles and while I've never reached the edge, I've always had to turn around to get back to where I started. Statements to the contrary are not reality, much less science.     (You can hit me for that when we meet at a rally and you figure out I'm the guy who said it. But not in the face.)    
Quote
BTW - This thread is fun! I wonder if we could have as   much fun debating investment strategy, politics, or   "kids these days."
'    No, politics or religion, both are forbidden subjects because of the vicious breakdown that occurred on the concours.org forum. They're trying to stay away from that sort of vitriol here and I agree. A group of people arguing over the mechanics of car tires can get heated, as it has here, but it's hard to take it too personally. Arguing politics or religion are arguing your core beliefs, that's very, very personal and the majority of people will not flex an iota, only scream louder and hit lower. Finances are like car tires, 'Kids these day', I doubt you'll find anyone to disagree with. :)    The 999/1000 example would be found within a large enough set. I'm not saying I've done it or seen it, but it would occur with a normal coin flipped enough times. The chance of the next toss landing heads though remains 50/50. In an ideal world, with no chaos, the coin would flip heads, then tails, then heads again infinitely. But unaccounted for variables, the wind, the force of the toss, the curvature of the thumb nail, etc. create variation. Flipping the coin enough times will bear out the 1:1 ratio, but within the set you'll find bizarre anomalies like the 999/1000.        
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on November 16, 2009, 10:28:00 pm
Those not having experienced running a CT are often repeating outdated assumptions.   Reading the FAQ's in the dark side and other web posts will see the user's real world experience on multiple machines.   Photo interpretation of the foot print is subjective and may be influenced by what one wants to see.   No one runs on the sidewall withe the ct's.      
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: oldsawfiler on November 16, 2009, 11:58:00 pm
Wow, Dan, 8 pages in this thread now.  Looking at the "Rorschach" prints that were posted it looks like they just took a car tire and rolled it up on edge to show the side wall print. If they had mounted it on a m/c rim with the weight of a bike and rider it would probably look a lot different.  Just mounting a c/t on a m/c rim would round the tread.  I doubt that I will ever run one myself, But I know it works well for you.   (http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/74/174/4/61/38/2828461380102410461FFUbXC_th.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2828461380102410461FFUbXC)  COG # 8062  AMA # 1084053  ROMA or Scarlet harlot acording to my wife
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: oldsawfiler on November 17, 2009, 12:08:00 am
sorry about the double post  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on December 04, 2009, 10:36:00 pm
 Kinda like the birthers rejection?   The evidence is right there under me! LOL  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Bigjimbo on March 24, 2010, 01:10:00 pm
I have one question....has any motorcycle tire manufacturer engineer approved this?  It would seem to me that they would have authoritative say on this matter.  I can't see how a car tire, designed to run on a flat tread pattern, can be stong enough in the sidewall to sustain lateral load.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Bigjimbo on March 24, 2010, 01:29:00 pm
additionally, how come GP motorcycle race teams don't use car tires on their race bikes?  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on March 27, 2010, 11:25:00 pm
Cause they wouldn't use up their tire budget if they did?  And the tire warmers wouldn't fit around a CT I guess.  Dem smart feller race teams ain't usin dyna beads either but some motorcyclists say they're oh so wonderful.  Whatever trips your trigger eh?    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: 2linby on March 28, 2010, 12:58:00 am
I figure riding in Jersey is and will always be way more dangerous than any CT on a bike on anyday!  HA!    Yeah, yeah exit 164 on the GSP whats it to ya?  AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks!  Northwest Area Director  COG #5539  AMA #927779  IBA #15034  TEAM OREGON MC Instructor  133K and counting!    http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby  http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip)  http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: David_Clancy_ON on March 29, 2010, 01:27:00 pm
When I imagine that one morning at the exact same time of the exact same day every motorcycle tire engineer and salesman woke up with the exact same idea. The idea that they would create the myth that motorcycles require special profiles, bead areas other construction parameters and that they could make them out of really fast wearing tread compounds and charge extra money for the tires and all become rich. Furthermore, other tire manufacturers would not discover the myth and refute it to sell more of their car tires. When I imagine this, it does not compute.    Then I read of
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Paulie on March 29, 2010, 02:57:00 pm
Quote
 If we lived in fear of new ideas and failed to examine the possibilities of others' notions, we would all be walking to our respective destinations, scared to get on the back of a four legged beast, let alone straddle a beast that can cover more that 60 meters (about 200 feet) per second.  
   Ding ding ding! Someone here has achieved a degree of open-mindednessand reading comprehension. Huzzah! ;)  01 Conc, Mijami Floriduh  OTP 06: http://tinyurl.com/2vk9o2 route map: http://tinyurl.com/4p7pmd  (http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfi9.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfib.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/yzdfia.jpg)(http://images.fotopic.net/y6x7zt.jpg)
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on March 30, 2010, 01:00:00 am
 great Imaginations Dave!!!! narrow tires, ha ha.   Try reality next time?  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on March 30, 2010, 07:46:00 am
So Dave, I guess you'll not be mounting up a CT anytime soon then?  Maybe you could petition Michelin to make a 150/80R16 PR2 so we'd be safer?    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: troidus on July 21, 2010, 07:46:00 pm
The pdf doesn't exist any more, but if I had to guess, I'd say that Bridgestone made tire impressions on a static rig showing tire flex at the rated capacity of the tire, not at the imposed load of a theoretical motorcycle.  All the close-up videos I've seen of darkside bikes show excellent tread contact with the road surface when heeled over.      Remember when radials were never going to work on a motorcycle?  Or when they were never going to be suitable for auto racing?  Times change, but minds sometimes don't.  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on August 06, 2010, 01:42:00 am
There's at least 29 suicidal, good engineering practice flaunting, devil may care FJR riders with CT's mounted now.  :eg:  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: David_Clancy_ON on August 29, 2010, 12:09:00 pm
....."Remember when radials were never going to work on a motorcycle?  Or when they were never going to be suitable for auto racing?  Times change, but minds sometimes don't."......    Following the recommendations and warnings from the motorcycle manufacturer's and tire manufacturer's engineers is different than "remember when" stories. If I said I ran accross the freeway at rush hour and didn't get hurt - does not mean it's a safe or recommended practice.    
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on August 29, 2010, 05:29:00 pm
Hey David,   Did you attend the spring fling last May on your FJR in Somerset PA with John DeVoss?  
Title: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: David_Clancy_ON on August 30, 2010, 09:51:00 am
Hey David,   Did you attend the spring fling last May on your FJR in Somerset PA with John DeVoss?    COG #6962     Yep, that was me. Proved to me that my then new PR2's work in the rain. Who ordered that weather anyway? :)    Now if someone came up with a really wide CT so I could just get off the bike and do away with the side stand - well, who knows what I might do. ;p  
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on January 17, 2011, 06:46:34 pm
Yo David, you'll love this!  :P

RUN FROM "THE DARK SIDE".  (http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=134995)

Think you'll make it to the spring Fling in May?
Did John ever buy a an FJR?

Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: conando on January 17, 2011, 08:17:33 pm
Yo David, you'll love this!  :P

RUN FROM "THE DARK SIDE".  ([url]http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=134995[/url])

Think you'll make it to the spring Fling in May?
Did John ever buy a an FJR?

Mark, look up John d on the FJRForum. I've already added to the darkside stink there.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on January 17, 2011, 08:52:28 pm
"Bike: 2008 ABS (N. America)"

Guess that answers my question.

When did you get it and how do you like it John?
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: conando on January 17, 2011, 10:36:23 pm
"Bike: 2008 ABS (N. America)"

Guess that answers my question.

When did you get it and how do you like it John?
pm sent
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: 2linby on January 18, 2011, 02:23:40 am
What about motorcycle tires on a car?

Has anyone thought about that?  Huh????

I mean this guy obviously could have started a trend...... Well he could of!   >:D

  (http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/4772/2693382140052071584S600x600Q85.jpg) 
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on January 18, 2011, 03:23:50 am
 Ricky Gervais has been contracted to answer all your car tire use on a motorcycle questions regardless of repetitions, fears and absurd comparisons.
 Please provide your motorcycle history and a few juicy personal accomplishments.  >:D
 The thin skinned need not apply.  :o

http://www.reviewsofelectronics.com/ricky-gervais-aka-icky-ricky-at-golden-globes-2011/225541/
 ;) :) :D ;D :P :-\ ^-^ :))
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on January 18, 2011, 01:41:47 pm
Which tastes better, the chicken or the egg?
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: diablo6v on January 24, 2011, 11:19:53 am
Man I really can't believe you started this thread on this forum. It is over 20 pages long on the ZG/GTR fanatics forum. Dan de moto man has about 20 posts "promoting" this idea.  Hey it's nothing new in the world of motorcycles. If you have been riding for a while you can see that this has been tried many times by many people. To each his own. If you want to cook meth in your basement and I say hey maybe that's not so safe. Then you blow yourself up. Well I tried to tell you.  You bought your ticket you knew what you were getting into. I really don't worry about it because there is now way in hell anyone using one of these is going to keep up with me. ( I hope they make  a z-rated car tire for your FJR hate to watch it come apart at about 150mph) :'(
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on January 25, 2011, 01:32:24 am
 Did I mention absurd comparisons?
 Opinions unsupported by either facts or experience?
 To each his own, then why fight it?
 Resistance is futile.
 Meanwhile, I now am in my 51st year as a motorcyclist tryng to kill myself.
 I just got a '61 Rambler Classic 6 in 'running condition' ...this year/model was my first car in 67. Some people don't understand me? Does not mean I am promoting or want others to have a 61 Rambler.
 'Your tread may vary'
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Necron99 on January 27, 2011, 02:10:29 am
I have 2 bikes.  3 Motorcycle tires and 1 car tire... does that mean I'm 25% crazy and stupid?  :)   :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on January 27, 2011, 04:17:23 am
 Enlightenment. Closer to the norm.
 4 motorcycles, 7 MC tires, one CT.   I R A 12.5 percenter  ,,, oh forgot the quad too...
 Oh, rode the kLR today to HF and in the sun!!! 50 deg.. nice day on two MC tires.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Ron on February 02, 2011, 05:24:13 pm
I've been riding with a car tire on my bike for the last two years and have found the follow.  If you use a high speed raceing tire it works the best.  I've not found any roads yet that I can't keep up on.  I've got over 40,000 miles on it and it still looks new.  I took an advanced riding class with in just to see if I could take the low speed turnes.  It worked great.  I did very good on high speed stoping and doing J turnes.  Some find it bad, but I really like my car tire on my bike.  My son think I crazy but he rides 92 connie.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: doug on February 02, 2011, 08:30:43 pm
So DANO,
I read about the Valkirie and the 15" rim conversion but didn't find the CT size-that-fits for the 16 inch 2006 rim (wider I believe than earlier C10s) I do 90% vertical slab riding (.001 horiz riding  :P ) and I am interested in getting the milage from a ct. I already am accustomed to the transition with a quickly becoming flat rear tire. You can pm or email me with the info since it is sooo controversial and deadly.   :-\ ... dougnkitty@juno.com

Ron, I assume the 92 Connie is NOT on a CT and I'm guessing you ride something other than a Connie WITH the CT?..
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on February 03, 2011, 01:31:00 am
Ron,
Welcome.  Interesting place to make an interesting first post. LOL  Glad to see you're a COG member.  Again, welcome.

Doug,
Your rear rim is the same as all early Connie rears.  It's the FRONT that's wider on the post 93 models.  However, while most of us are doing 17" conversions on our Connies looking for more tire options, there is a 15" conversion that can be done too.  I think this is your rim for that. a ZL1000 Elliminator. It's wider than a Connie rim, but not sure by how much.  I think it's pushin' the limits of space though IIRC.
http://tinyurl.com/6374e9t

This is a bolt-on if I remember correctly.  Dan about had me talked into it a couple of years ago and I'd still like to try it out for curiosity's sake.  Just sayin'.

Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on February 04, 2011, 06:39:48 am
  No problem Doug,

 I have developed a thick and righteous skin on the subject. Hee hee.
 As a COG member you can visit the Concourier Archive for the article.
 Go to member area in the left column of the COG home page ....assuming you are logged in.
 Look for library click, , Concourier articles, click, and Summer 2008 (Vol 20, No. 2) click
 Pay atention to the password prompt directions before attempting to download.
 My current 15" tire and so far favorite CT is the Federal tire and has no clearance problems but is tight.

So DANO,
I read about the Valkirie and the 15" rim conversion but didn't find the CT size-that-fits for the 16 inch 2006 rim (wider I believe than earlier C10s) I do 90% vertical slab riding (.001 horiz riding  :P ) and I am interested in getting the milage from a ct. I already am accustomed to the transition with a quickly becoming flat rear tire. You can pm or email me with the info since it is sooo controversial and deadly.   :-\ ... dougnkitty@juno.com

Ron, I assume the 92 Connie is NOT on a CT and I'm guessing you ride something other than a Connie WITH the CT?..
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: adolfR on August 22, 2011, 06:15:46 am
Car tires on motorcycles? I'm not sure if it is safe. I think it is dangerous to use car tires to motorcycles since the tires for cars are bigger than a normal motorcycle tire. Safety should still be the priority in driving. If this is the practice of other people, using car tire to their motorcycle, then I think Goodyear Tires should make tires for motorcycle. Goodyear is one of the best car tires makers in auto industry. I believe the main reason behind the company's unfailing success is innovation. Right now, a new innovation was presented to the public by Goodyear. According to a Monday press release, Goodyear is creating a new tire that will not only monitor its own pressure, however will re-inflate the tires as needed for maximum safety and performance.The business has not mentioned a time frame when the technology will be available to consumers.The business has dubbed the new system Air Maintenance Technology, or AMT. Article source: Goodyear develops a tire that inflates itself (http://www.cardealexpert.com/news-information/auto-news/tire-inflates-self/).
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on August 23, 2011, 08:52:23 am
"the Department of Energy’s Office of Vehicle Technology has awarded Goodyear a $1.5 million research grant"

Do I get a free one for partly funding the research?  :o
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on August 23, 2011, 06:52:49 pm
 GREEN AWARD.  :))
 35k mi and more to go.  :sign0066:
 Show me the money!  :whoo:
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Necron99 on August 26, 2011, 10:30:12 pm
I only got about 20,000 miles on the car tire I had on my VTX.  But at $129 for a rear for that many miles, that was a pretty good deal, IMO, as I was getting 8k on the MC tire.

And it stuck to the road in the twisties like glue.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Mad River Marc on August 30, 2011, 05:44:35 pm
If you are comfortable using a car tire, and ok with the risk then by all means go for it.  After all, safe motorcycling is all about reducing your risk to whatever level is personally acceptable to you.  I have  no problems if people want to go to the Darkside as long as they are aware of the risks/rewards.

What I DO have a problem with, is all the people insisting to people that "oh it's perfectly safe, there is no risk with it" to newcomers etc.  I recently had a conversation with a guy who was going to do it cause multiple people  (on another forum) told him it was 100% safe to do. When I pointed out the risk factors to him he was shocked as he had never thought about it...He still decided to do it since it was acceptable to HIM ..(now that he knows all sides I wish him lots of happy miles)

the FACTS are as follows

1) Car tire sidewalls are NOT intentionally designed to take the lateral stresses that a Motorcycle induces when turning
2) Motorcycles turn by leaning, car tires cannot lean as well as Motorcycle tires,  so even if you don't notice it, you ARE reducing your effective turning ability overall.


That being said there are many people doing it without problems, and for them they have accepted the risk and that's fine, but keep the facts in mind when you make your decision.

I personally will never, ever put a car tire on a motorcycle....but if you are comfortable with it then I wish you many happy miles!
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Mitch on August 31, 2011, 02:04:14 am
I too was skeptical of a car tire on the rear of a motorcycle.  I have worked with a major tire importer for the last 20 years and felt I knew a great deal about tires.   About 2 weeks ago I rode behind danodemotoman through some pretty fast twisties.  Dan's rear tire is a car tire.  I know it shouldn't have worked because of structural differences in motorcycle and car tires but... G** D***, that Dan can ride. I could barely keep up with him.  35,000 mile and his car tire and he was still still gaining distance. 

Ask an aeronautical engineer and they will tell you that on paper bumble bees can't fly. The surface area of their wings isn't great enough create sufficient lift. I have been stung by both bumble bees and Dan with his car tire.

I'm not advocating everyone switch to car tires, I'm just saying perhaps the loads that a 3500 lb vehicle puts on a car tire is different than the load of a 650 lb bike.  Ultimately, it works for him.  Having witnessed him ride that punk I can only shake my head in amazement.  The fact that we may not understand why it works doesn't negate that fact that it's working and has done so for 35,000 miles.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on August 31, 2011, 02:18:12 am
The basic principles of bumblebee flight, and insect flight generally, have been pretty well understood for many years. Somehow, though, the idea that bees "violate aerodynamic theory" got embedded in folklore.

According to an account at www.iop.org/Physics/News/0012i.1, the story was initially circulated in German technical universities in the 1930s. Supposedly during dinner a biologist asked an aerodynamics expert about insect flight. The aerodynamicist did a few calculations and found that, according to the accepted theory of the day, bumblebees didn't generate enough lift to fly. The biologist, delighted to have a chance to show up those arrogant SOBs in the hard sciences, promptly spread the story far and wide.

Once he sobered up, however, the aerodynamicist surely realized what the problem was--a faulty analogy between bees and conventional fixed-wing aircraft. Bees' wings are small relative to their bodies. If an airplane were built the same way, it'd never get off the ground. But bees aren't like airplanes, they're like helicopters. Their wings work on the same principle as helicopter blades--to be precise, "reverse-pitch semirotary helicopter blades," to quote one authority. A moving airfoil, whether it's a helicopter blade or a bee wing, generates a lot more lift than a stationary one.

The real challenge with bees wasn't figuring out the aerodynamics but the mechanics: specifically, how bees can move their wings so fast--roughly 200 beats per second, which is 10 or 20 times the firing rate of the nervous system. The trick apparently is that the bee's wing muscles (thorax muscles, actually) don't expand and contract so much as vibrate, like a rubber band. A nerve impulse comes along and twangs the muscle, much as you might pluck a guitar string, and it vibrates the wing up and down a few times until the next impulse comes along.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: WillyP on August 31, 2011, 11:55:24 pm
An interesting story, Zorlac, thank you for clearing that one up. Now, how about the one where some engineers at MIT proved on paper a Harley engine could not run?


And... No, I am not taking a swipe at Harley, I read that somewhere...
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 01, 2011, 02:55:23 am
An interesting story, Zorlac, thank you for clearing that one up. Now, how about the one where some engineers at MIT proved on paper a Harley engine could not run?


And... No, I am not taking a swipe at Harley, I read that somewhere...
I thought 108 years of production already proved that.  :beerchug:


Now you;ve read it here... it must be true.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Dave Scott on September 01, 2011, 11:20:07 am
the FACTS are as follows

1) Car tire sidewalls are NOT intentionally designed to take the lateral stresses that a Motorcycle induces when turning
2) Motorcycles turn by leaning, car tires cannot lean as well as Motorcycle tires,  so even if you don't notice it, you ARE reducing your effective turning ability overall.


Marc, I believe number 1 above might not be an accurate statement.  Car tires are designed for lateral stresses.  Both they and motocycles create them.  the question in my mind is which creates more.  Cars lateral stresses are accompanied by a 3500 pound vehicle.  Motorcycles at 600 to 800 pounds.  I'm not so sure which creates more.  Food for thought.....
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Mad River Marc on September 01, 2011, 11:58:07 am
It's not the amount of stress placed, it's the KIND of stress that has me concerned.

Cars usually don't have the tire "Leaning" over to the angles Motorcycles do, all their lean is accomplished in a much lower angular range.  This changes the nature of the stresses on the sidewall/bead

Does the weight difference make up for it?  Maybe, but until someone does a scientific study to prove it's safe (Not the "I can't keep up with Dan" or "there are tons of people doing it without problems" type of study) then I will err on the side of caution and advise people of the risks.

Again, I am not saying don't do it,  if you are ok with the risk then by all means darkside away,  but don't sit there and insist to everyone that it's no risk..
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Dave Scott on September 01, 2011, 02:47:29 pm
I hear what you're saying.  I agree with your basic premise that there are risks introduced even if they can't factually be quantified.  unfortunately, there are folks on both side of the debate who make statements as fact without data/information to validate them. 

There are a number of things I've learned about the CT debate over the few years I've researched it.  I did try running one after some research of my own.  It didn't work for me, but I'm the type of tinker and try things.  My comments to folks are usually that they should research and determine for themselves.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 01, 2011, 03:18:06 pm
NEWSFLASH!!!

I spent Monday catching 2-3' sharks on freshwater, rattlin', deep-divin'crankbaits on every cast in colors that sharks don't normaly encounter. 

Who knew?   :)


Philosophical Pragmatism has been the American way for decades.  "If the shoe fits,wear it" "If it fits, it ships" The concept is basically, "if it works, go for it" or more simply, "use what gets the desired results".  Theory and practice are not two separate things, but work hand in hand.  Sometimes theory has to change because practice calls theory into question.  Too often theory prevents accomplishment because it limits exploration.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 01, 2011, 03:19:31 pm
BTW, sharks taste like chicken.   8)
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Dave Scott on September 01, 2011, 04:22:17 pm
so do rattlesnakes.   ;)
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 01, 2011, 05:41:27 pm
Do rattlesnakes, sharks, car tires, or chickens kill more people each year?   :1rij:
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: 2linby on September 01, 2011, 06:09:42 pm
NEWSFLASH!!!

Too often theory prevents accomplishment because it limits exploration.

SOUNDS JUST LIKE MY WIFE! I try some exploring to accomplish and, well, she limits me........ :-[
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on September 02, 2011, 11:03:52 pm
Scary stuff! :motonoises:
Uber lateral stress there!

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CRYbLAMu-VM/TlSUbOeTKtI/AAAAAAAAt8Q/0ffdKuXkmSs/s1600/img_1334.jpg)
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on September 03, 2011, 03:43:15 am
  OMG  :-\
 Look at that contact patch!!!

Scary stuff! :motonoises:
Uber lateral stress there!

([url]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CRYbLAMu-VM/TlSUbOeTKtI/AAAAAAAAt8Q/0ffdKuXkmSs/s1600/img_1334.jpg[/url])
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Slybones on September 03, 2011, 03:48:46 am
Thats kinda what I was thinking
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: WillyP on September 03, 2011, 01:43:34 pm
LOL, that thing is leaning, what like 7, maybe10 degrees at the most, and it is scraping? It should not have car tires, it needs truck tires!
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 03, 2011, 08:05:09 pm
  OMG  :-\
 Look at that contact patch!!!


Yeah, but a little exercise and a low carb diet and it'll get better.  THat's what my wife tells me about mine.   :D

Definitely not a sport tourer, but a bike tire wouldn't get him any more lean.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Paul North Jersey on September 15, 2011, 05:15:38 pm

the FACTS are as follows

1) Car tire sidewalls are NOT intentionally designed to take the lateral stresses that a Motorcycle induces when turning
2) Motorcycles turn by leaning, car tires cannot lean as well as Motorcycle tires,  so even if you don't notice it, you ARE reducing your effective turning ability overall.

I personally will never, ever put a car tire on a motorcycle....but if you are comfortable with it then I wish you many happy miles!

Hi Marc,
I've followed this thread with much interest.  My best buddy on a VTX 1800 went to the Darkside and
reports essentially exactly what Dan reports (with fervor).  I'm not sure why, but you seem like this actually makes you mad, like your upset that someone is messing with some natural law.
At any rate, I have to dispute your first point above:  My car with a built in G meter will pull over
one G in a corner, that's lateral stress. How can you say that a car tire is not designed for lateral stress?
I say the sidewalls on a CT are designed exactly for high lateral stress (not for touching the road surface though).  Which brings me to: As Dan has said and my buddy confirms (to me), before the
CT can get to the sidewall the bike would hardpoint. The wear pattern shows that the CT never comes close to "rolling onto the sidewall". Again as Dan said, the little mold nibs are still there, and he's
feels the bike is turning harder/better than ever.  The difference is that it takes more input to get
the stiffer sidewall (damn pesky sidewalls) to flex.
Question for you:  Why do bike tires only last 5 or 6 or 7K miles?
Interesting topic.
Regards,
Paul in North Jersey (my first post)  ;D
That just sounds silly.
The evidence supports
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Tour1 on September 20, 2011, 06:54:32 pm
Quote
Question for you:  Why do bike tires only last 5 or 6 or 7K miles?
Rumor has it the softer the rubber the greater the traction.
The softer the rubber the less miles you get on the tread.
Rumor provided by a Camaro-driving buddy re drag racing tires circa 1975.
If only I remembered as much of what I learned in my classes...
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on September 21, 2011, 01:46:28 am
Absolutely brilliant.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on September 21, 2011, 07:13:48 am
 The contact patch is much larger on the car tire.  :-\  At all attitudes and conditions. BTDT   :))
 The CT tread compound is reported and measured with a durometer to be SOFTER than a MC tire.
 So my contact patch on the seat tells me the CT tire lasts longer due to the larger contact patch even with a softer compound.
 Can 50 billion car tires be wrong?
 It is amusing when a poster thinks that guarantees and engineered assessments using a car tire are required yet that rider does not demand the same for a MC tire not recommended by the bike mfg. So use whatever criteria for your choice as you expect of others choice.
 Have you fondled your tread today?   :88:
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: WillyP on September 21, 2011, 12:04:40 pm
So... Why not a CT on the front?
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Cap'n Bob on September 21, 2011, 12:15:40 pm
I know a guy who runs a car tire on the rear and a rear tire on the front of his Valkyrie.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Slybones on September 21, 2011, 02:47:44 pm
So... Why not a CT on the front?

It would probably never be able to turn ?
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 21, 2011, 03:18:28 pm
I know a guy who.....
(http://www.buzzmuseum.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/smart-car-tank-war.jpg)
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 21, 2011, 03:21:41 pm
THIS guy I do NOT know...
(http://www.knucklebusterinc.com/pics/hyanide_main_485.jpg)

 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Dave Scott on September 21, 2011, 03:24:06 pm
So... Why not a CT on the front?

For one, they don't make CTs in the sizes necessary.  very few bikes actually run a rim wide enough.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 21, 2011, 03:27:43 pm
Of course car tires are only the "gateway" into more serious forms of insanity.  The examples I've shown are what COULD happen next.
(http://patentpending.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/06_018.JPG)
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 21, 2011, 03:31:32 pm
Unless we crush this movement now there's no telling where this might lead.  THey could start putting pontoons on airplanes and propellers on boats and motors on kites.  We MUST stop the insanity NOW!
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: 2linby on September 21, 2011, 08:35:22 pm
Unless we crush this movement now there's no telling where this might lead.  THey could start putting pontoons on airplanes and propellers on boats and motors on kites.  We MUST stop the insanity NOW!

Relax Francis!
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 21, 2011, 09:01:28 pm
Unless we crush this movement now there's no telling where this might lead.  THey could start putting pontoons on airplanes and propellers on boats and motors on kites.  We MUST stop the insanity NOW!

Relax Francis!
Not as long as I gotz wurk to do...
 :deadhorse:





 ;)
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Necron99 on September 22, 2011, 01:16:56 am
Wore out a car tire on my VTX 1800... it took me 25,000 miles to do it.  25k miles of peg dragging and daily commuting.  Works great.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: wally_games on September 22, 2011, 02:12:22 am
Bet you can't do this with a car tire... ...
http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20110920/?pg=61&pm=2&u1=friend#pg61
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: CRocker on September 22, 2011, 02:33:57 am
Bet you can't do this with a car tire... ...
[url]http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20110920/?pg=61&pm=2&u1=friend#pg61[/url]


Uhh...bet 99.99% of riders can't do that on motorcycle tires...just sayin...
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Dave Scott on September 22, 2011, 12:14:58 pm
I definitely can't scrape my elbow on my track bike.   ???

Maybe I could if I used a Uniroyal Tiger Paw.  :)
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 22, 2011, 12:18:27 pm
I've scraped BOTH elbows in a single turn before.  Still got the scars to prove it too.  :))


I have to admit though, it was on motorcycle tires.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on September 23, 2011, 12:39:16 am
Couldn't stand the uber lateral stress, huh?  :motonoises:
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on September 23, 2011, 12:51:06 pm
Couldn't stand the uber lateral stress, huh?  :motonoises:
Yeah, but my tailor was able to fix the jacket... the pants were another matter altogether.  :sign0137:
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Mad River Marc on October 17, 2011, 05:53:53 pm

Hi Marc,
I've followed this thread with much interest.  My best buddy on a VTX 1800 went to the Darkside and
reports essentially exactly what Dan reports (with fervor).  I'm not sure why, but you seem like this actually makes you mad, like your upset that someone is messing with some natural law.




I don't have anything against using a car tyre actually.  As long as you are aware of the risks and they are acceptable to you then by all means go for it. After all, safe motorcycling is about reducing your risk to personally tolerable levels.  This is the same reason I am pro helmet but anti helmet law,  as long as you know the risks it's your life and your body and you should be free to do whatever you want with it.

What I DO have a problem with, is when people start asking about Darksiding, and get overwhelmed with responses stating "There is no risk, it's perfectly safe, I've been doing it for blah blah miles" and such,   they portray using a car tire as a 100% safe alternative to a MC tire and say it will handle as well blah blah blah.  THAT is what I have a problem with.   

Bottom line (IMHO) there IS a risk associated with running a Car Tyre on a MC,  what degree of risk is it?  I cannot answer that as I am not an engineer (and I suck at math anyway :) ).  Again I'm not saying DON'T do it,  I'm saying know all the FACTS before you make your decision,  if after knowing all the facts, you decide it's an acceptable risk then I support your right to run a car tyre!

Ps,  The lateral stresses placed on a tire are different in a car then a bike so I stand by my statement that they weren't designed for it. (Car's pull sideways bikes lean etc)

Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: wild man on October 17, 2011, 06:09:33 pm
Car tires on choppers were the cool set up in the 70's, but they didnt lean much over anyways.  Too scary a set up for me on a leaning motorcycle..
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on October 22, 2011, 11:38:13 pm
 Times are a changing.
 Car tires are now radials.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Necron99 on October 23, 2011, 05:25:58 pm
I'll accept millions of anecdotal miles of testimony as proof, thanks.  I believe I'm a reasonable person in this regard. 
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: kilowatt on October 31, 2011, 09:07:06 pm
I wouldn't think of doing this if I hadn't ridden a Goldwing with a ct on it yesterday. This guy had a 160k miles on his GW and was getting 30k miles out of car tires. He rides 2 up pulling a trailer. Not having a lot of seat time on a GW it semed ok to me on the highway and in the turn. If he was changing out motorcycle tires every 3,000 miles he would have put 53 tires on in that time. Is there any brave soul out there who has tryed a ct on the C-14 and willing to report his findings.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: cra-z1000 on November 07, 2011, 03:06:57 am
On a sidecar rigged bike maybe , bottom line is....do what you want . But it shouldn't be promoted as a great idea because it's just not .
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Hogboy on November 07, 2011, 03:05:27 pm
"Cocaine is for horses,
and not for men.
They say it will kill me,
but they won't say when."

Not sure why that came to mind when I hear stuff like this...
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Gypsy JR on November 07, 2011, 05:55:32 pm
Just consider the noticeable difference between a 190/50 rear tire and a 190/55 on a C14. Increasing the crown diameter makes the bike "fall in" quicker, and with less effort.

A car tire is the absolute opposite direction.

I've seen them try to do U-turns at Bike Weeks, its funny as hell. I can get my little Chevy around easier.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: danodemotoman on November 08, 2011, 08:50:00 am
 My rear CT is a 165. Not that much wider than stock 150 and much less so that 'modern' sport tourers of 180+.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Ranger Jim on November 09, 2011, 09:45:13 pm
I can't believe that we're at 11 pages on this thread. :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on November 09, 2011, 10:20:25 pm
I only show 4 pages.  But I'm holding out fer eleven.  :)

If I wasn't such a tightwad I'd have tried this a long time ago just to see what it's like.  Since Dan has logged a lot of miles doing it, there's a remote chance I could do it and not get killed.  I like my odds better than bungee jumping or base jumping or flying a wingsuit or feeding sharks or wrestling aligators or dating young women... all of which seem much more life threatening to me... especially the sharks and young women escapades.  Jim, could you do a feature on young women and the appropriate sfety equipment and preparations required?  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Zorlac on November 10, 2011, 01:56:08 am
If I wasn't such a tightwad I'd have tried this a long time ago just to see what it's like. 
When I mount my last Pilot GT & wear it out  :'( if I can find a 16" CT that doesn't rub  ???, I'd like to give it a shot since my Connie primarily does slab duty.

A respected FJR forum member recently tried one on his FJR and went back to a MC tar after posting his impressions on the handling, since he lives in NH and avoids the slab, twisty handling was a big concern for him.
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: WillyP on November 10, 2011, 10:58:56 am
especially the sharks and young women escapades

Too dangerous! Stick to da internets and Model Trains!
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Rev Ryder on November 10, 2011, 01:34:16 pm
especially the sharks and young women escapades

Too dangerous! Stick to da internets and Model Trains!
Actually, I had a 4 ft. blacktip shark in my lap while in my kayak a mile offshore last month.  I didn't mean for it to be in my lap but it jumped in with me.  For a minute there I'da given just about anything to be home on da internets... fortunately, I came away unscathed again.  Best as I can recall, however, I never was that lucky with young women as to walk away without some serious scathing going on.   :truce:


Hmmm.  Model trains, eh?
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: wild man on November 10, 2011, 03:46:56 pm
Unless they are trained sharks as in this feeding session I witnessed at Fiji a couple of months ago!!  Kidding aside there are no trained sharks, just sharks that are so fat they cant seem to find the need to bite anyone!!
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: Dave Scott on November 10, 2011, 03:48:22 pm
Which one is the fat shark?  I can't tell.   :nananana: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Car tires on motorcycles
Post by: wild man on November 10, 2011, 03:52:54 pm
Actually it was the 16 foot Tiger shark that cruised by towards the end of the dive, not so much these bulls!!
(My BMI is 12% :P)