Author Topic: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes  (Read 3330 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gitbox

  • Scooter
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« on: June 08, 2015, 03:28:00 pm »
Here's is what I found on my son's CBR1000RR when he said he was hearing a scraping sound from the front wheel. One of the rear pads separated and one on each of the front calipers separated. NEVER seen that before.  :o The brake pads were maybe a little over a year old. The brand is Volar. (I did not put them on - a friend of his did)

If one of the front pads managed to fall out while riding, he would not have any front brakes at all. Very scary. Needless to say after showing him the failed parts, he will NOT make that mistake again.  :)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300A
2004 Yamaha FJR1300 (sold)
2000 Concours ZG-1000 (sold)

Offline stevewfl

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 4155
  • COG# 9334
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9334
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2015, 06:36:50 pm »
Nice post.  It baffles me so many elect to put those cheap chinese ebay rotors on their bikes too  :o    :truce:
KiPass!

Offline 4Bikes

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3208
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 9715
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2015, 07:17:48 pm »
Exactly why I'm replacing my brake pads again front and rear after 16,000 miles when it looks like I could go another 5000 miles. Cheap insurance.
Silver 2011 C-14. Previous rides: KZ-400, KZ-750, KZ-1000.  Keep the rubber side down.  Ride Fast......Live Slow......

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 8954
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2015, 08:15:28 pm »
I've seen more than a couple of Volar pad failures in the last 5 years, here, on the other forum, and on ADV.

their quality control is minimal, and the bonding adhesives sub par.... when you buy stuff on amazon, or flea bay, most times you get what you pay for, in this instance, it proves a point....

thanks for bringing this to light, and don't scrimp on pads....

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline seagiant1

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2947
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 11323
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2015, 08:21:14 pm »
Hi,
      Wow! Scary!

Thanks for the reminder! :great:

I intend to do most of my maintance. :motonoises:

I just bled my brakes on the C14 for the first time. I didn't think there would be any problem as I also work on  my old pick up. ;D

What had me squirrley was a guy on the other site sayin you had to have a POWER brake bleeder to bleed the brakes on a C14!!! ::)

Used my Mity Vac and the brakes were better than when I bought the bike,however I was determined if I could not get them right to man up and get help. :-[

All good and I will not cheap out(especially now) when I need new pads! >:D
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it"
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

Offline ConcoursKZ

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2746
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2015, 08:27:03 pm »
Exactly why I'm replacing my brake pads again front and rear after 16,000 miles when it looks like I could go another 5000 miles. Cheap insurance.

Which pads are you using?
2008 Concours ABS 1976 KZ 900 B1   CDA#387
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

Offline dan4aspen

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1114
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2015, 08:52:42 pm »
Funny.  I have had a Volar set on my bike for 4 years, never an issue.  They have far outlasted stocks by 2 sets.  I have carbon kevlar.  There are defects with all manufacturers at some point.  Sorry this has happened.  Glad you caught it.
BURN RUBBER, NOT YOUR SOUL!!!!!!!

Offline Thud300

  • Taking the long way everywhere
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 815
  • my YouTube channel: "ToastRider"
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2015, 01:23:07 am »
Looking at the corrosion, and curious as to how the bike had been stored. It looks like moisture found its way between the pad and backing.
Returning old Kawis to riding glory since 2014
1998 Concours "Connimus Prime"  CDA #555
1991 Voyager XII "Xaviera"
1989 454 LTD "Merlin"

Offline Gitbox

  • Scooter
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2015, 11:33:25 am »
Looking at the corrosion, and curious as to how the bike had been stored. It looks like moisture found its way between the pad and backing.

Exactly. How did moisture get between the pads and the back plate? My guess, as mentioned before, is very poor manufacturing. There is no way ANYTHING should be able to get in there. If you notice in the pic, the rust is only where the pads were bonded. The mounting ears are rust free and they looked just fine when in place on the calipers. It was when I took the wheels off that they fell apart.

To answer your question, the bike was stored both inside and out. Probably mostly out.
2008 Yamaha FJR1300A
2004 Yamaha FJR1300 (sold)
2000 Concours ZG-1000 (sold)

Offline PaulP

  • Software Engineer
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 906
  • An armed society is a polite society.
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2015, 09:17:18 pm »
I've never had problems with EBC pads and so that's what I buy exclusively. But, if they ever did that to me, I'd be looking for a new brand. Brakes are not something to take chances with.
Current: 2006 Concours (Connie Mae)
Previous: 1988 K100LT, 1982 GPZ550

Offline Thud300

  • Taking the long way everywhere
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 815
  • my YouTube channel: "ToastRider"
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2015, 12:10:06 am »
Actually, it looks like the pads were bonded in two places to the backing plates, and the moisture induced corrosion/swelled metal literally pried the pad material off the plates.

I'm running the Volar pads front and rear, have been quite hard on them at times and been pleased with their performance, but this is troubling.
Returning old Kawis to riding glory since 2014
1998 Concours "Connimus Prime"  CDA #555
1991 Voyager XII "Xaviera"
1989 454 LTD "Merlin"

Offline Gitbox

  • Scooter
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 11:18:04 am »
I found this on another site that was reporting the same issue:


Unfortunately this happens more often than you think!

I'm writing to you on behalf of the Global Brake Safety Council (GBSC), which was established with the intent to uphold the highest standards in brake safety.

One of the reasons for the friction material falling off the disc brake plate is the excessive rust build-up between the backing plate and the friction, causing what's known as "rust jacking". This is becoming more of an issue because friction manufacturers are using mill scale steel, commonly referred to as 'black steel', which contains a layer of oxides. This layer, if not properly removed, will be trapped under the friction layer during the manufacturing process. These oxides turn to rust and cause separation between the disc brake plate and the friction (rust jacking), which eventually leads to the friction falling off. This is obviously a major safety concern!

Currently, aftermarket manufacturers of disc brake shoes are self regulated and are expected to engage in 'responsible' manufacturing. With more and more manufacturers moving production to China and India to cut operating cost, they are also cutting corners and jeopardizing the quality of their disc brake shoes and your safety.

The solution is simple: Friction manufacturers MUST use disc brake steel that is free of any mill scale or oxides. This steel is referred to as "pickled and oiled" steel, which goes through a process of acid wash to remove all mill scale and contaminants from the steel.

GBSC has released a detailed report on this safety issue in the brake industry and is currently engaging government and lawmakers to raise awareness on this issue and set legislation for all North American manufacturers to adhere to.

Please visit our website www.gbscouncil.com for more info and to download the report.

Regards,
GBSC
2008 Yamaha FJR1300A
2004 Yamaha FJR1300 (sold)
2000 Concours ZG-1000 (sold)

Offline PaulP

  • Software Engineer
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 906
  • An armed society is a polite society.
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 04:38:45 pm »
Rust jacking, eh? So when was that letter sent out? (I can't get to the linked site from here at work and my internet at home is unreliable at the moment - damn you Century Link)
Current: 2006 Concours (Connie Mae)
Previous: 1988 K100LT, 1982 GPZ550

Offline Pbfoot

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 10807
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2015, 09:55:28 pm »
I am running cheap rotors off of ebay. So far they are working excellently.
If you don't have time to do it right, when do you have time to do it over.                                                                17" wheels, Nissin 4 piston calipers.1kg Sonic Springs.Cartridge Fork Emulators. KB Brace. Galfer brake lines  Free power mod.

Offline Hazy

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1449
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 10534
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2015, 12:07:33 pm »
I only run EBC pads. Haven't had a prob yet.
North Central Area
COG#:10534
CDA# 0423 "Please... don't judge :("
2001 Kawasaki ZG1000 Sonic Blue  - "Mae"
2014 COG Silver Dammit Rally Greeter - Come say HI!!!

Offline Thud300

  • Taking the long way everywhere
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 815
  • my YouTube channel: "ToastRider"
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2015, 12:55:44 pm »
Nice link. Lots of evidence presented. Hoo boy.  :-\ Here's the short version.

In a nutshell, if shot blasting is used instead of an acid dip to remove oxides (rust) created during manufacture of a backing plate made of "black steel", not all of the oxide is removed, causing less adhesion of finishing products, including pad adhesive, and setting up the possibility of rust jacking and pad separation.

That's it, the Volar pads are coming off ASAP.



« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 06:19:05 am by Thud300 »
Returning old Kawis to riding glory since 2014
1998 Concours "Connimus Prime"  CDA #555
1991 Voyager XII "Xaviera"
1989 454 LTD "Merlin"

Offline stevewfl

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 4155
  • COG# 9334
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9334
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Don't Cheap Out on Brakes
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2015, 12:00:41 am »
I only run EBC pads. Haven't had a prob yet.


me too, I don;t have time to sweat the BS.  Like PR4 tires, I just buy the best and run the h*ll out of 'em
KiPass!