Author Topic: Driver Aids  (Read 2194 times)

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Offline Ranger Jim

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Driver Aids
« on: January 26, 2015, 11:35:56 pm »
In a comprehensive report of various automobile safety systems, the American Automobile Association (AAA) released intriguing findings about blindspot monitoring systems, with some thoughts as how they pertain to motorcycles.

While the driver aid systems are exactly that, systems designed to aid a driver in operating a passenger vehicle safely, AAA found that not only were drivers relying on them to heavily, in lieu of safe driving practices, but also that in certain situations the systems operated sub-optimally.

The study’s findings that pertain the most to motorcyclists are those on blindspot monitor systems, which AAA found have a hard time detecting fast-moving vehicles, and often served warnings too late for an evasive action to take place by the automobile driver.

Specifically, AAA found that motorcycles were detected by blindspot monitoring systems 26% slower than a typical passenger vehicle. AAA also found a wide-range of abilities in the systems of different manufacturers, with some systems having such a short detection range as not to be effective at all in avoiding an incident.

That conclusion is an important one as autonomous vehicles become a larger reality in the vehicle landscape, and as autonomous-like features become more standard on consumer vehicles (AAA reports that 75% of 2014 model-year vehicles offer a blindspot detection system).

One of the key issues we have been discussing is how the future motorcycles will evolve as these autonomous vehicles become more prevalent on the roadway — with a key focus on how motorcycles, as outliers to traffic patterns, can confound these systems.

The AAA’s report is perhaps the first evidence that automobile manufacturers and lawmakers need to take a closer look at how these systems operate, not only on roadways filled with other cars, but also with motorcyclists, bicyclists, and pedestrians.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 11:49:06 pm »
One of the key issues we have been discussing is how the future motorcycles will evolve as these autonomous vehicles become more prevalent on the roadway — with a key focus on how motorcycles, as outliers to traffic patterns, can confound these systems

Not a good view of motorcycles if considered as an obstruction to progress.

Are the the 'blindspot monitoring systems' of the radar variety?

Offline Aussie

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 12:37:50 am »
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Offline Mcfly

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 01:12:14 am »
This ultimately shows that a technology that is introduced to assist drivers, soon
becomes a driver 'dependency'.  As more tech is added, we'll find people being more
reliant on the tech, and less attentive to the most important function... driving the car.

So as we make cars 'safer', we make drivers more dangerous (exponentially it seems at times).
Eventually the driver will be so dangerous, it will have to be removed... enter the Google Car.

The motorcyclist will share its position with people that drive classic cars, and sports cars, and
standard transmission cars.  All that have a connection with machine and road... the utilitarian
that sees a car as nothing more than a transport will gladly join the sea of mindless automotons
that will gladly give up driving the car for texting, adding friends to their Facebook and finding
the closest McDonalds or Starbucks.    :(
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Offline ChipDoc

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 02:35:58 am »
I don't think the motorcycle is going to be outlawed any time soon, but I do suspect we'll have to make some accommodation to the new systems.  The real key to the autonomous systems are their ability to "see" other vehicles on the road and react to them.  I suspect that we'll eventually have to carry a transponder so our vehicles (not just bikes) without auto-pilot will be able to speak with the grid when we drive on the Interstate.  Out in the twisties, it'll take another couple of generations for that to even be considered.

Offline mnofpeace

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 01:29:35 pm »
 >:(

Here's a good driver's aid for ya...

Put down the daggone cell phone, look up, put both hands on the wheel, and operate the 3000-4000lbs worth of heavy machinery that you are sitting in called an automobile!!!!!
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Offline suprPHREAK

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 02:24:08 pm »
Always found it appropriate that Volvo called their blind spot system BLIS....as in, 'Ignorance is...."

Whenever I approach a vehicle with a blindpot system (you can see the little triangle in the mirror), I'll scoot past as quick as I can. I don't want to be stuck where that person's tech cannot see me.
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Offline Mcfly

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2015, 10:30:04 pm »
I know the Google cars (full auto drive) can identify pedestrians, including small
children, so a Motorcycle and it's rider would definitely be seen... more so than
an actual driver because it doesn't get distracted.  (This being the major reason
why auto-drive WILL be safer)  As a rider, auto-drive can't come soon enough,
because society's social media status has everyone's priorities completely F.U.B.A.R..

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Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 01:45:32 am »
Yeah, that technology stuff works great - when it works. How many times has your computer frozen or your phone puked out.   >:(  May not happen often but it only has to happen once. ???
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Offline Thud300

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 02:31:23 am »

Are the the 'blindspot monitoring systems' of the radar variety?

According to my GM training, yes. They are essentially a scanning radar.
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Offline Mcfly

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 03:14:47 am »
Yeah, that technology stuff works great - when it works. How many times has your computer frozen or your phone puked out.   >:(  May not happen often but it only has to happen once. ???

I can honestly say I've seen waaaay more distracted drivers than I've had locked up computers and dropped cell calls combined.
I'll take my chances on that 'one time' Jim... people are far less reliable. (Which is pretty sad)

There's a reason we're not all in Auto-drive cars... the technology isn't ready...............yet.  ;)
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Offline gPink

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 09:42:27 am »

Are the the 'blindspot monitoring systems' of the radar variety?

According to my GM training, yes. They are essentially a scanning radar.

That would explain some phantom radar detector alerts.

Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 11:11:12 am »
The problem is that the drivers become to "depend" upon the driver aid. That enables them to become even more engrossed in reading and posting on Facebook or texting their friends. There's a considerable likelihood that they will make a wrong evasive maneuver presuming they even hear and react to the warning (if the system works and does give a warning, of which there is no guarantee).
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Offline Rain Dancer

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2015, 11:32:19 am »
The problem is that the drivers become to "depend" upon the driver aid. That enables them to become even more engrossed in reading and posting on Facebook or texting their friends. There's a considerable likelihood that they will make a wrong evasive maneuver presuming they even hear and react to the warning (if the system works and does give a warning, of which there is no guarantee).

 :iagree:

The more aids added, the worse drivers/riders get. There was a study a few years ago about pilots, and when planes couldn't be brought in using landing assist aids, there were a lot more accidents.  The findings were, pilots were losing the ability to fly manual when needed. Sounds like what drivers and riders will be like. Also takes the skill out of doing anything. As to the elimination of motorcycles, last September, the AMA magazine had an article on states adopting Sweden's Zero Safety Plan.  (Minnesota and Washington so far,  if memory serves) and it's about making the designers of roads responsible for keeping people safe. Also, part of it is automated speed enforcement, DUI devices in vehicles, and in the original Swedish plan, no motorcycles. Don't ever think it can't happen...look through history and see how often that mistake has been made.
Sorry.....didn't mean to be on a soap box. To me, riding is a skill and a pleasure, and with a fun car (my MGB for me) driving is also. I feel that in the  future, in the govt.'s search for womb to tomb security, we will lose much more than we will gain.
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Offline 2linby

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2015, 06:55:06 pm »
We make up a very small fraction of the vehicles on the road as well as the amount of money spent on safety research and development. While I hesitantly agree that reliance on these newest safety systems might add to drivers relaxing their responsibilities, these systems have and will save lives and no doubt will get even better in the near future. However, it is totally our responsibility as motorcyclists  to NOT Ride in another vehicles blind spot!!!  :-[ :-[  . If you can't see their eyes in their mirrors they cannot see you.
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Offline Larry_Buck_FL

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2015, 02:05:58 pm »
NOT Ride in another vehicles blind spot!!!  :-[ :-[

+ a zillion!
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Offline dcman98

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Re: Driver Aids
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2015, 05:44:51 pm »
Yeah, that technology stuff works great - when it works. How many times has your computer frozen or your phone puked out.   >:(  May not happen often but it only has to happen once. ???

I can honestly say I've seen waaaay more distracted drivers than I've had locked up computers and dropped cell calls combined.
I'll take my chances on that 'one time' Jim... people are far less reliable. (Which is pretty sad)

There's a reason we're not all in Auto-drive cars... the technology isn't ready...............yet.  ;)

As a commuter who lane splits through 10 mph freeway traffic, a 30 mile commute can have me passing thousands of cars per day. I wouldn't even know how to count it. Even just factoring for the lanes on either side of me, a reliability rating of 99.9999% would average about 1 incident per year. (20000 cars per week, 52 weeks per year). That's only for one commuter.

Oddly, when traffic is so slow, cars don't have the space to change lanes, and you only have to worry about someone dumping their coffee out the window.

Automated cars would be much better at seeing an oncoming motorcycle in city driving.

Ultimately, I think that automated cars could be safer, but I am skeptical that programmers will be able to account well for the unexpected. Thus, they will rely on giving control back to the driver, which will result in longer reaction times and making those situations that much more dangerous.

There will be tradeoffs, but I think that we will be better off.

I favor motorcycle only lanes. Set us free.