Author Topic: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.  (Read 4300 times)

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Offline rcannon409

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2015, 01:33:35 am »
Lou, often times things that appear so obvious are what gets overlooked. You dont have to go far to see people who never use a rear brake on their motorcycle.

I watched a guy drop a brand new fz1 this summer.  You could see him struggling. Focused about  8 inches in front of his bike, and wobbly as all get out. I'm watching him maneuver around shopping carts. Hes going slow, but about twice as fast as he should have been.  He never made a move for the rear brake, but he did up front. 

His bike shattered when it hit, and threw him quite a distance.  His knee looked jacked up as he tried to stop the crash, and failed.

But his mistakes were..clutch all the way out. No rear brake. Sadly, many ride this way and invest in side protection for their bikes, and will never be caught trying to go slow in a parking lot.   Heres the other thing. If you get even halfway decent at slow speed stuff, that patch of oil you stock your foot in wont drop you. Why? Because your slowing your bike, under control, instead of bringing it in as a controlled crash.

Offline Uncle Rob

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2015, 02:52:24 pm »
For the C10s, the front tire can make a world of difference in slow speed handling.  When I bought mine, it had the stock front tire and would want to fall over to one side or the other at anything below walking pace.  With a PR3, I can beat most in a slow race.
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Offline lather

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2015, 11:09:52 pm »
I've used the rear brake... about 5 times in 153,000 miles.

Offline grassmere

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2015, 02:46:19 pm »
If you ride more than one bike you really must tailor your riding to each bike.  There's no way around this. 

Each will respond differently based on weight, brakes, engine, suspension, tires, and the list goes on.  It's like trying to drive a big truck like a compact.  If you try to ride them all using the same habits you won't do well on any of them.  Not trying to be critical, that's just the way it is.   

+1

I would not fear using either brakes or both as long as the bike momentum in straight line moving forward.
And knowing the feeling when is the limit of the tire to lock/slip. (I am non ABS rider). That is what you will know by riding it more and more, as it also said, every bike is different.
When you know it I guess you will not 'think' anymore which brake to apply as it will be instinct, part of process of stopping or slowing down.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 02:00:29 am by grassmere »
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2015, 09:39:08 pm »
I've used the rear brake... about 5 times in 153,000 miles.

A lot of pure street riders do this.  I always told them.....told is not  a great word.  I'm not one to tell someone with 153,000 miles on his bike he is doing something wrong. Lets say, casually discussed and be more accurate.

Theres a whole different skill you can develop in the speed range of 0-5mph.  Its not hard to do.  It takes about 20 minutes, an empty parking lot, and a willingness to think of it as a rear stability control lever.

A old sales guy showed me. He was the guy responsible at parking the bikes out front of the shop.  I was always amazed at how accurate he could line them up. He was way too lazy to push something. I pestered him for a week as I never caught on to how he did what he did at such slow speeds.  Finally he said, "Drag your rear brake, &*((-head."

 

Offline lather

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2015, 12:23:54 pm »
I've used the rear brake... about 5 times in 153,000 miles.

A lot of pure street riders do this.  I always told them.....told is not  a great word.  I'm not one to tell someone with 153,000 miles on his bike he is doing something wrong. Lets say, casually discussed and be more accurate.

Theres a whole different skill you can develop in the speed range of 0-5mph.  Its not hard to do.  It takes about 20 minutes, an empty parking lot, and a willingness to think of it as a rear stability control lever.

A old sales guy showed me. He was the guy responsible at parking the bikes out front of the shop.  I was always amazed at how accurate he could line them up. He was way too lazy to push something. I pestered him for a week as I never caught on to how he did what he did at such slow speeds.  Finally he said, "Drag your rear brake, &*((-head."
OK, I'll give it a try. Never to old to learn. I do use the rear brake on my KLX250s

Offline rcannon409

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2015, 03:14:26 pm »
I was watching a bunch of police officers trying to certify for motorcycle patrol.  The group of bikes they were on was where old kz1000 police bikes went to die.  No lights, crashbars everywhere, dents scrapes, etc.  They were trying to get through a very tight set of cones.  It was fun to watch , so I pulled up along the equipment area, well out of the action.

One guy was very small. I doubt he was over 5' 4" , and maybe 150 lbs.  He kept crashing on a particular left hand section. I watched him tip over 4 times. He was very frustrated based on the words he was screaming. He walked over to where I was to clear his head, and started talking to me. As if I was supposed to be there....

Anyway, I asked if he was using his rear brake. No, he said. They never mentioned that.....I said, "Go back out, drag your rear brake, and give it more throttle."   His look was funny. He knew I was not an instructor, but he was desperate enough to listen to anyone.   I said, "They are not timing you, you just need to not crash."

I did not stay around much longer, but long enough to see him make his first clean pass.

When you drag that rear brake, at low speed, the bike will stay nice and stable at  a pace thats way less than a walking speed.  You dont even need to practice. It just happens.   






Offline Canadian Steve

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2016, 01:50:56 pm »
Very carefully and with great anticipation and care is not a smart aleck answer. The one time I tipped over, I was in a hurry and didn't engage the brain before the starter.

This is related but not what the OP was thinking, but if/when you trailer going in/on is bad enough, but go straight and don't stop.
Slow but steady. BAcking down is different.

Backing down the ramp of my toy hauler was an ADVENTURE the first time. I must've backed down 6" at a time on a 10' ramp. Key here is to come off absolutely dead slow/start & stop and STRAIGHT back/down. The last couple  of feet is where the bike "bridges" the ramp and the ground and you better have long legs.
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Since I am umm not tall ;D I take the seat off when loading and unloading into the toyhauler. When backing the C10 out I would leave engine off and in 1st gear and use the clutch in combination with the front brake to stop slides. Back out until the rear tire is about 6" from bottom of ramp and then freewheel straight back or its gonna hurt.
Unloading is much better with linked brakes (front will stop you dead at any point without sliding). Believe it or not the FJR is much easier to load or unload than the C10 even though it weighs more.
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Offline ron203

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2016, 02:19:43 pm »
Good idea on taking the seat off. I can reach the ground because I do have long legs, but I use first gear and the front brake too.

I haven't tried the C-14 yet. Spring is going to come (eventually).  I've been thinking about not only the linked brakes, but the KTRAC will help in loading. I almost dumped the C-10 when loading off of wet grass onto the ramp. It  slipped sideways when crossing the aluminum ramp frame. Since then, I put anti-skid tape the width of the door so there is no longer a slick strip to cross.
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Offline mattchewn

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2016, 02:22:28 pm »
Unless you are loading and unloading at more than 12MPH the Linked brakes will do NOTHING to help you.
KTRAC also is a two edged sword. when at very low speed, (like starting off on wet grass), too much throttle will often cause the motor to stall. This will likely end badly.
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Offline ron203

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2016, 02:33:44 pm »
>12 mph loading speed is a problem all by itself.. :rotflmao:  Good points Matt. Thanks.

I'm still learning this beast and more info from you experienced guys is welcome! 
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Offline mattchewn

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Re: So question about how you use your brakes on a top heavy bike like this.
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2016, 03:37:39 pm »
Here's my take on this,
When loading or unloading stack all the possible variables in your favor. Get the ramp angle as low as possible. Use anything around to help like a curb or driveway apron to help lower the load angle. I do this in front of my house. Use a longer ramp, load from a higher vantage, etc. I would back my truck up to the front walkway steps in order to lower the distance I had to raise the bike to get it into the truck. I back my bike trailer up to the curb before I load or unload, this gets the height from the ground to the trailer deck to less than 6 inches. It is all about making it as easy as possible and thereby as safe as possible. I use the bike in gear and feather the clutch for braking as well as the front brake when unloading.
When riding I use the front brake almost all the time, slow or fast, BUT, I practice slow speed maneuvers on a REGULAR basis. I do this on ALL my bikes and not just the fat girl. I love my fat girl and I have dropped her once, (or more). My slow speed practice has saved me on more than one occasion, most recently when my front tire washed out while braking in some gravel. My reaction time was very good and I was able to save it before I went down. Man was I glad for all the time I spent practicing.
Practicing riding.....

JUST DO IT!!

Matt
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Offline JimBob

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Quote
...not just the fat girl

I actually laughed out loud!

Offline Bucky

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I had to do an instinct panic stop the other day - elderly gent left turn scenario. I was pleased to realize I went for both brakes. Might even have been some molten brake juice dripped on the road. Didn't skid, didn't  get off - I guess those panic stop practice passes mighta started to wire up the brain / muscle connect? I don't know. I chalk it up to all part of riding - if it seems like they're trying to kill us, it's because -- they are.
 :-\


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Offline Diz

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The thing is that the other motorists are not angry when they are trying to kill us, they usually just want to get somewhere. And parking lots are the worst! Looking only for a parking space or the entrance to the nail salon, who has time to see a motorcycle? I find parking a motorcycle at the Stop & Shop to be pretty good slow speed maneuver practice.