Author Topic: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative  (Read 3684 times)

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Offline JPavlis_CA

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The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« on: July 13, 2015, 02:38:06 am »
Nick Ienatsch's "The Pace" was an eye opener for a lot of weekend sportbike riders on how to have fun in the mountains while being safer and not worrying about getting as many points on your license. Now, Nick has a new initiative called "The Brake Light Initiative," that builds on "The Pace 2.0" in which he talks about going to the brakes at anytime and how to do it safely.

Go here to read "The Pace 2.0"
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/09/16/become-a-better-street-rider-with-the-pace-motorcycle-safety-and-riding-skills/

and then here to read his "Brake Light Initiative"
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/05/28/the-brake-light-initiative-treatise-on-motorcycle-control-using-your-braking-skills/
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Offline bwhite212

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 12:34:05 pm »
I see this was posted last year, but being new to the site I just read this and it prompted some questions. I just bought my 2014 C14 a month ago and I love the bike. One of my favorite I've ever owned. I've had about a dozen bikes, some faster than my Connie, some slow and comfy. I've been riding for over 20 years and have taken MSF courses galore (thanks Navy) and, knock on wood, have never been down, but I don't live in fear of it either. I've read books on riding and have always loved the study of the minutiae that makes this sport great. I also know I will always have things to learn and I'd be disappointed if I didn't.

Having said all that, the two things that jump out at me in this article are the two things that frustrate me in learning my Concours. Brakes and Throttle. I'm not one to 'stab' the brakes as the article describes and I understand the negative effects of doing so, especially in a turn. I have the linked brakes set at the low setting and I almost always feel like the initial brake feel is so abrupt, it disturbs me. The throttle gives me the same feedback. Rolling on throttle at "legal" speeds on the street, there is such a snap, even when I try to be gentle. It's not nearly as prevalent at higher speeds when I'm already into the throttle. The brakes and throttle on this bike feel like a light switch. On or Off. It's disconcerting, to say the least.

How have some of you overcome these issues on your Concours? Any tips would be much appreciated. Thanks very much.

Offline gPink

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 01:27:34 pm »
Can't help with the linked brakes but Be sure your throttle cables are adjusted with minimal freeplay.

Offline RWulf

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 01:43:40 pm »
You may be a candidate for Steve to "flash you"

As I understand his flash will improve driveablity.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 02:08:29 pm »
bwhite212, I too have the 2014.
When I first rode it I had the same problems.
Brakes would come on abruptly.
ie; If I was on the front brakes and touched the rear,,, arghhhh!!
     If I was lightly touching the rear brakes and touched the front,,, arghhhh!!

     Braking force would suddenly/abruptly multiply.
        The linked brakes are the problem.

Solution; I know we've used both brakes all our life's, so we instinctively touch the rear after the front.
              But, try teaching yourself to use only the front... (it will apply both)
              Really helped to solve the problem.
   
Ride safe, Ted

PS: Fly Navy   (USNR Retired)


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Offline bwhite212

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 02:43:00 pm »
Thanks All,

You have all touched on my suspicions. I didn't want to mention these things to sway any of your comments, but I think we're on the same wavelengths.

1) I just happened upon an article last night about throttle cable adjustment. I have done this several times in the past to other bikes and I think it just didnt dawn on me yet for the Connie, being new and all and just through the 600 mile service. I will do this today.
2) I also have read extensive posts on here about Steve's flash and I've read his website several times. I think this may also be in my future. If the only thing it provides is a more linear throttle application, I would be thrilled. Anything above and beyond that is just a bonus.
3) This is the one I was most "afraid of", so to speak. Teaching myself to brake differently on this bike. Like you said connie_rider, I've grown accustom to applying different amount of pressure at different times to front and rear based on different situations. I will focus on using the lever only in standard maneuvers and leave the combination of lever and pedal for emergency use or quick stops.

Thanks again.

Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 11:28:10 pm »
Had the same problem Bwhite. Especially 2 up. Roll the corner and then roll throttle and get a big snatch.I thought it was to get used to the drive line snatch but...........What I found and am still training myself to do is to carry some throttle through the corner and then roll more on instead of closing the throttle and then trying to gently roll on. I found myself going in a gear to high mostly. I now try to drop a gear to keep the r's up and some throttle on. It seems to help. I'm also planning to get Steves flash at the nat. Since I bought this bike after about 2k miles I don't touch that foot pedal anymore unless I am HARD on the brakes. Hope it Helps.
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 We gonna dance! Danke Schoen

Offline Rob9876

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2017, 02:47:13 pm »
In the Basic Rider 1 MSF course they teach never hit the brakes in a curve -- just roll throttle and lean more.  Same is taught in Basic Rider 2.

Then in the Advance Rider MSF course they touch on trail braking a bit, kind of admitting that you can brake in curves if you are careful.  And the Pace 2.0 seems to act like you should often be braking through curves.

Honestly, at this point I'm a bit confused -- given the fact that so many riders never take a class beyond the Basic Rider 1, why don't they teach trail braking in that class?


Offline connie_rider

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2017, 04:02:37 pm »
Give us a definition of Trail Braking...

I used to think it was a little rear brake to control speed.
  I learned differently, but others may not be on the same page...
     Many still think that trail braking means braking into a turn with the rear tire.
        So, explain it a bit.

NOTE: Back on dirt/enduro bikes we intentionally used rear brakes in the woods.
In the dirt we were using it to swing the rear out in tight turns. (sometimes, around a tree)
Sorta steer with the rear.

Ride safe, Ted

« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 06:19:43 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline S Smith

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2017, 05:08:40 pm »
Here is some reference material... 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking

http://www.motomom.ca/keith-code-on-trail-braking-exclusive-interview/

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Offline Rob9876

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2017, 06:29:33 pm »
My question remains: why do the first 2 MSF classes say braking in a curve is a strict no-no, and then the advanced class and The Pace 2 say it is a preferred method?

Edit:  Seems like while you are teaching noobs to feather the clutch in the friction zone you could also be teaching them to feather the brake lever in curves, right?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 06:33:02 pm by Rob9876 »

Offline connie_rider

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2017, 11:11:13 pm »
From Steve Smith's reference material. {Reply #9}

Risks

There is risk with trail braking because excessive use of the front brake can result in a loss of grip as the tire's adhesion is split between braking and cornering forces.[1] Effective trail braking requires finesse from the rider, which can be difficult to learn.[1]

Controversy

Guides such as the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Basic RiderCourse teach that the safest way for a beginning rider to approach a corner on a motorcycle is by performing all of the slowing before the entrance of the turn, discouraging the use of any brakes while the motorcycle is leaned over.[1][3] The argument against trail braking on the street, at least for beginners, is that the steep learning curve of trail braking makes it appropriate only for the race track. The benefit of learning trail braking to the street rider is that knowing and understanding how to slow while entering a corner gives a greater safety margin, particularly in blind, decreasing radius or downhill corners.

Review more of Steve's post for a more complete explanation.

Ride safe, Ted

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Offline S Smith

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2017, 11:03:23 am »
My question remains: why do the first 2 MSF classes say braking in a curve is a strict no-no, and then the advanced class and The Pace 2 say it is a preferred method?

Edit:  Seems like while you are teaching noobs to feather the clutch in the friction zone you could also be teaching them to feather the brake lever in curves, right?

The BRC and BRC2 are designed as license waiver courses. These are designed for novice riders or those with limited experience on their own motorcycle. It is suggested that new/inexperienced riders do not brake while in turns due to the reduced traction, and the risk of a crash due to over-braking while in a turn.



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Offline Boomer

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Re: The Pace 2.0 and the Brake Light Initiative
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 12:05:57 pm »
Freaked me out a little to see a post from Jim in the updated threads list. :D
RIP my old friend and glad to see yer still stirring up controversy from beyond. <LOL>

Teaching new riders about trail braking is akin to teaching your kid to salsa as soon as he has mastered walking more than 10ft. Ya need time and experience to be able to learn such things.
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