Author Topic: Am I Off My Rocker???  (Read 2728 times)

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Offline seagiant1

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Am I Off My Rocker???
« on: April 22, 2017, 05:08:57 pm »
Hi,
        I had a thought about, Penny Wise And Pound Foolish"!

The C14 has shown it's self from day one, I think from feedback from owners, to EAT tires????

On the other end of the equation, while doing my research into upgraded suspension...

I have heard from SEVERAL reliable sources, including the owner, of Traxxion Dynamics...

That better suspension, creates better, even, tire wear on your tire, and consequently, you get more miles!

Ok, Here's where the, rubber hits the highway...

If I spend (for example) $2500, for better suspension, on my C14...

How long till, I make my money back, on $350 a set tires???? :-[
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 05:14:41 pm by seagiant1 »
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

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Offline jwh20

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 06:22:37 pm »
Impossible to tell from what information we have at this point.  It depends on how much more, if any, tire life you actually get from the upgrade suspension.  But then there are many reason outside of tire life that you might want to upgrade.

It's my opinion that the #1 reason why the C14 seems to eat tires is because the typical C14 rider, myself included, likes to twist the throttle and that, while putting a smile on my face every time, also eats the tires.  It's worth it IMHO.  If you want tire life, get a scooter.
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Offline seagiant1

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 06:32:09 pm »
Impossible to tell from what information we have at this point.  It depends on how much more, if any, tire life you actually get from the upgrade suspension.  But then there are many reason outside of tire life that you might want to upgrade.

It's my opinion that the #1 reason why the C14 seems to eat tires is because the typical C14 rider, myself included, likes to twist the throttle and that, while putting a smile on my face every time, also eats the tires.  It's worth it IMHO.  If you want tire life, get a scooter.

Hi,
        So.....Your opinion of the OEM Suspension, on the C14....is what???? :motonoises:

Maybe a better way to ask is...

Do you think the OEM Suspension, is so bad, that it actually contributes to advancing tire wear???
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 06:52:03 pm by seagiant1 »
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it"
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Offline NeroW

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 06:33:07 pm »
This seems to me to be unanswerable in a "practical" sense because tire wear is governed by so many variables. How you drive, temp of the road, etc. Now figure in a completely DIFFERENT set of data for each tire; Avon's are not made the same way as Pirelli's is an example. Add on to this the different geometry involved. Do you ride twists or cruise the Interstate? Do you live in a rainy climate?  These are the kinds of questions that would cause a computer to catch fire.

That having been said, I think it's safe to say that keeping your tires operating within the parameters that they were designed to work best in would substantially improve their life. Check those pressures!

I would think that a "better" suspension keeps these variable to a minimum, so in theory a better suspension SHOULD increase the wear of your tires. By how much, no idea. I don't think you could predict something like that, only arrive at it with personal anecdotal evidence.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 06:38:20 pm by NeroW »
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Offline jwh20

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 07:02:05 pm »
I don't have any major complaints about the OEM setup of the C14.  I agree it could be improved a bit but I'm not willing, at this point at least, to spend the money to upgrade.  My point, however, is that I'm not sold on the idea that better suspension will lead to better tire life.  You might find that your tire life decreases with better suspension because you will ride closer to the limits of the bike.   :)
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Offline seagiant1

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 07:15:40 pm »
I don't have any major complaints about the OEM setup of the C14.  I agree it could be improved a bit but I'm not willing, at this point at least, to spend the money to upgrade.  My point, however, is that I'm not sold on the idea that better suspension will lead to better tire life.  You might find that your tire life decreases with better suspension because you will ride closer to the limits of the bike.   :)

Hi,
        LOL! ;D

Such is life, gain on one end and lose on the other!!! :truce:

I can say since upgrading my suspension and tires my confidence has improved and I find myself pushing the bike more in the curves!

Admittedly I was not impressed with the OEM suspension, but I am tall/heavy so maybe that is why?

A smaller/lighter person may not see so many "warts' on the system? :o
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

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Offline NeroW

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2017, 07:18:04 pm »
You might find that your tire life decreases with better suspension because you will ride closer to the limits of the bike.   :)

I AGREE. I got new Spec A Angels put on two weeks ago and I'm now catching myself going into "Street-Rossi" mode.  :))
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2017, 10:02:00 pm »
I know the mileage I got out of my all of my tires and have photos of the wear patterns. I upgraded at 50,000 miles to the Traxxion AK20/Penske rear and put new tires on at the same time.  I'm interested in this topic as well. Hopefully I remember this thread and can report back with my results.  I'm hoping for an improvement too.  I know the upgraded suspension keeps the tires planted in corners with washboards, so I'm thinking that alone will help wear patterns.
Silver 2011 C-14. Previous rides: KZ-400, KZ-750, KZ-1000.  Keep the rubber side down.  Ride Fast......Live Slow......

Offline Cigar Jay

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2017, 11:49:17 pm »
lets give you a generous 25% increase in tire life   about 90$ a set
90 into 3000 = is an awful lot of tires
can you tell I'm not an engineer ?.
so for handling yes -- for tire life no..

by the way i love the Motoport gear,thanks for the reassurance.

jay

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2017, 07:15:37 am »
lets give you a generous 25% increase in tire life   about 90$ a set
90 into 3000 = is an awful lot of tires
can you tell I'm not an engineer ?.
so for handling yes -- for tire life no..

by the way i love the Motoport gear,thanks for the reassurance.

jay
Your logic is sound, but that only comes out to 33 sets of tires and only 275,000 or so miles of riding.   :nananana:  Time to get riding.  :motonoises:  I would be happy not having the tires cup so badly during their last 1/3 of tread life.
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Offline Diz

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2017, 09:22:33 am »

Your logic is sound, but that only comes out to 33 sets of tires and only 275,000 or so miles of riding.   :nananana:  Time to get riding.  :motonoises:  I would be happy not having the tires cup so badly during their last 1/3 of tread life.
[/quote]

My OEM tires lasted 4000 but I drove on them to 4700 miles Switched over to Michelin PR 4s. Was only getting 5500 before the dreaded cupping, especially front but loved the contact so stayed with them for 4 sets. Got talked into a PR 4 GT and the tire life has improved significantly Right at 7000 and still round with plenty of grip. Ride with a pillion about 75% and stock suspension.

Offline JerBear

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2017, 11:42:54 am »
I've tried PR2 and PR3 with the 2's wearing and lasting much better.  I can't seem to find a 55 series "2" anywhere so I'm guessing they have stopped making them.  I drive fewer miles now so I may try a softer compound because changing tires once a year seems like a smart thing to do and branching out to try Shinkos or Perrelli may be a direction I go.  The PR2's I currently have on have been there for two years and if I don't get moving, may last three.  I don't like to drive on bikes with tires that old.
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Offline ZXtasy

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2017, 01:00:46 pm »
Just run a car tire on the back, my GW and Valk friends do it with no problems. Or invest in your own tire changing tools,makes getting good wed deals on tires and changing them more often less of a big deal. :))
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Offline seagiant1

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2017, 02:50:59 pm »
Hi,
         Thanks for the responses fellas! :great:

I guess I would now ask anyone that has upgraded their suspension....

To let me know, in time, if they got, better mileage, better wear, no cupping,ect.ect.

I personally, don't get to ride enough because of my job, but for someone say commuting back and forth to work....

Just wondering if dropping the $2500 for better suspension, would be a good deal in the scheme of things?

Having upgraded my own, I would say yes, as there are a few things that help this bike be all it can be!  (suspension,flash,seat,can,screen, ect,ect.) >:D
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it"
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

Offline TRM-KS

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2017, 08:07:16 pm »
You ask a pretty good question, but I agree that the correct answer would be next to impossible to predict.  The only way to know for sure is to make the suspension mods and then see what happens.  IMHO, upgrading the C14's suspension to the tune of $2500 would be a personal decision that a lot of owners would never do, for a variety of reasons.  Yes, I know some here on the forum have done exactly that.  Cool, and thanks to them for keeping the economy moving. 

My analogy would be investing in some major home improvements; do them for the enjoyment of having a new kitchen or master bath and not because you'll be able to get your money back at selling time.  Upgrade your suspension and enjoy that, and let the tire wear fall where it may.     

Offline Steve_Reinschmidt_CO

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2017, 08:24:07 pm »
Just run a car tire on the back, my GW and Valk friends do it with no problems. Or invest in your own tire changing tools,makes getting good wed deals on tires and changing them more often less of a big deal. :))

No on the dark side, yes on the tire changing machine. Not sure my machine has paid for itself yet in pure dollars but has certainly paid for itself in time and aggravation.
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2017, 11:29:27 pm »
Just run a car tire on the back, my GW and Valk friends do it with no problems. Or invest in your own tire changing tools,makes getting good wed deals on tires and changing them more often less of a big deal. :))

No on the dark side, yes on the tire changing machine. Not sure my machine has paid for itself yet in pure dollars but has certainly paid for itself in time and aggravation.
Not to mention lurking around the show room while waiting for a tire to be installed and convincing yourself you need new gear.   Not doing that part has already paid for my changer.  :))
Silver 2011 C-14. Previous rides: KZ-400, KZ-750, KZ-1000.  Keep the rubber side down.  Ride Fast......Live Slow......

Offline Bruiser

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2017, 12:00:38 am »
SG, I remember you saying you are a big dude.  I would have to say the quick wear of tires is probably tire brand.  I switched to Pirelli Angels a few years ago, and will never go back. I'm 6ft even, and check in at 225lbs.  I run the Angels at a constant 42 psi, and presently, the back has 11,000 miles on it, and can easily go another 1000.  They are made with a pretty hard center strip, so wear in minimum.  Some of the other brands may be cheaper, but they also are softer, meaning fewer miles are gonna be obtained. Personally, I would save my money in re: to the new suspension mods
Bruiser

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Offline gpd323

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2017, 12:20:09 am »
YUP!   :beerchug:
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Offline seagiant1

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2017, 12:30:57 am »
SG, I remember you saying you are a big dude.  I would have to say the quick wear of tires is probably tire brand.  I switched to Pirelli Angels a few years ago, and will never go back. I'm 6ft even, and check in at 225lbs.  I run the Angels at a constant 42 psi, and presently, the back has 11,000 miles on it, and can easily go another 1000.  They are made with a pretty hard center strip, so wear in minimum.  Some of the other brands may be cheaper, but they also are softer, meaning fewer miles are gonna be obtained. Personally, I would save my money in re: to the new suspension mods

Hi,
         Thanks for the info!

I had to many people, whose opinion I respect point me to the Angel GT's not to listen!

The "A" Spec was a no brainer as I'm pushing 280lb. at 6'7"!

I admittedly dropped some coin on the Ohlin's but got a great deal and have never looked back!

I kept the OEM bits to put back on the bike if I want to go to a newer c14 (doubt it!) or....

When I sale the bike I can pull the gold and probably sale it for what I paid!

I just wondered as I said about someone riding their bike everyday and racking miles what he/she might be saving with tire wear on better suspension???

Maybe nada!
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it"
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

Offline Bruiser

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2017, 12:34:10 am »
One thing I have noticed, is the price of tires going up! I bought an Angel A spec 2 years ago...cheapest I found was around $145.  Just got another last week, the cheapest was $170!
Bruiser

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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2017, 10:40:31 am »
I'm wondering if the naysayers on suspension upgrades ever rode a bike with an upgrade from the stock suspension?  If you did drop the coin and then say it wasn't worth the money or effort, that would be something to understand.  I think SG and others who have done upgrades, find it was worthwhile in terms of ride quality and cornering. It's not a placebo effect.   I totally get it that not everyone has the funds to do it.  Trying to win back the cost of suspension by buying fewer tires I admit is a stretch!
Silver 2011 C-14. Previous rides: KZ-400, KZ-750, KZ-1000.  Keep the rubber side down.  Ride Fast......Live Slow......

Offline JimBob

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2017, 02:11:36 pm »
I'm wondering if the naysayers on suspension upgrades ever rode a bike with an upgrade from the stock suspension?  If you did drop the coin and then say it wasn't worth the money or effort, that would be something to understand.  I think SG and others who have done upgrades, find it was worthwhile in terms of ride quality and cornering. It's not a placebo effect.   I totally get it that not everyone has the funds to do it.  Trying to win back the cost of suspension by buying fewer tires I admit is a stretch!

Lotta variables at play - SG being a bigger guy probably pushes the stock suspension to the limit (mostly shock damping/rebound) all the time. When you look at weights as a percentage of the bike's total sprung mass, you can see where every pound over the suspensions's centerline starts to count, and not in a linear fashion.

How one rides will influence perception of the suspension.

How one feels the bike is another aspect, and what a rider values.

Personally I love a vehicle where handling is as responsive and predictable as possible...BUT, I've rarely been willing to pay for it. And I'll never ride well/hard enough to really appreciate substantial/costly improvements. So I won't spend the money, so I won't find out if it was "worth it" - because I've already decided that money is better spent elsewhere.

I suspect many riders are like this - the 14 is already pretty great, and perhaps meets the desires of a rider so they don't see a need for improving given the cost.

Would I notice the difference between a stock and a modified vehicle? Sure. Would I appreciate it? Yep. Would I appreciate it to the tune of the money and time to upgrade? Nope.



Offline seagiant1

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2017, 02:42:34 pm »
I'm wondering if the naysayers on suspension upgrades ever rode a bike with an upgrade from the stock suspension?  If you did drop the coin and then say it wasn't worth the money or effort, that would be something to understand.  I think SG and others who have done upgrades, find it was worthwhile in terms of ride quality and cornering. It's not a placebo effect.   I totally get it that not everyone has the funds to do it.  Trying to win back the cost of suspension by buying fewer tires I admit is a stretch!

Lotta variables at play - SG being a bigger guy probably pushes the stock suspension to the limit (mostly shock damping/rebound) all the time. When you look at weights as a percentage of the bike's total sprung mass, you can see where every pound over the suspensions's centerline starts to count, and not in a linear fashion.

How one rides will influence perception of the suspension.

How one feels the bike is another aspect, and what a rider values.

Personally I love a vehicle where handling is as responsive and predictable as possible...BUT, I've rarely been willing to pay for it. And I'll never ride well/hard enough to really appreciate substantial/costly improvements. So I won't spend the money, so I won't find out if it was "worth it" - because I've already decided that money is better spent elsewhere.

I suspect many riders are like this - the 14 is already pretty great, and perhaps meets the desires of a rider so they don't see a need for improving given the cost.

Would I notice the difference between a stock and a modified vehicle? Sure. Would I appreciate it? Yep. Would I appreciate it to the tune of the money and time to upgrade? Nope.



Hi,
         I think you nailed it Jim Bob! :beerchug:

This was just something that bounced off the, Old Cabeza...... ::)

And I thought I would run by People on the forum!!! ;D
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it"
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Am I Off My Rocker???
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2017, 04:38:06 pm »
When it comes to the money part, I figure I'm WAY ahead of the game when it comes to the C-14.  Dropping money on Farkles, gas, tires and in this case the most major upgrade yet--the suspension, almost seems like vouchers for free stuff.  I say that because my dealer also sells BMW's  I was set on the BMW K1800, and fortunately decided on the Silver 2011 when the BMW had a backorder and the C-14 was ready to go.  I still don't think I added enough Farkles to get to the BMW cost, and have yet to spend money on a repair, only normal maintenance items.  When it came time for fork maintenance at 50K miles, I just dropped in a new suspension and have a whole new ride.   :motonoises:
Silver 2011 C-14. Previous rides: KZ-400, KZ-750, KZ-1000.  Keep the rubber side down.  Ride Fast......Live Slow......