Author Topic: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?  (Read 882 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RoadKillHeaven

  • How hard can it be? 。◕‿◕。
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 551
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« on: October 20, 2018, 04:52:24 am »
Warranty tire replacement hasn't yielded improvements.
As far as I can tell stem bearings are NOT loose. There is no lateral or axial play with front off the ground.
However, all the info I've read on the web doesn't help to understand how loose is TOO loose.
A good analogy is differential pinion bearings preload. It is checked with rotational torque and adjusted accordingly.
My question is how much rotational torque "preload" must there be for steering stem bearings to be in normal operational range?
P.S I've read FSM on how to adjust steering. It doesn't seem difficult.


Cheers...

Offline strum

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 674
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12307
  • Membership Level: Active
2008 C-14
Measurement is the first step that leads to control and eventually to improvement.
If you can't measure something, you can't understand it.
If you can't understand it, you can't control it.
If you can't control it, you can't improve it."

Offline smithr1

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 5240
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 6197
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2018, 05:16:18 pm »
I adjusted mine last time myself.  Actually I got to the bearings and cleaned and re-greased them.  I tightened it till there was no play and some resistance to movement back and forth.  That was not enough.  I had head shake.  I went back in and it still seemed tight to me but I put as much force as I could with a 6 inch wrench I had  I mean I tried to make it to tight but knew it would not be that bad with such a short wrench.  That was perfect.   

To bad someone failed to return the floating crown socket loaner tool.  It would be nice to put an actual torque wrench on it.
---
Bob Smith (smithr)
Austin, Texas baby!
2010 Kawasaki Concours, Midnight Blue
COG 6197, CDA 107

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 9357
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2018, 10:37:21 pm »
I adjusted mine last time myself.  Actually I got to the bearings and cleaned and re-greased them.  I tightened it till there was no play and some resistance to movement back and forth.  That was not enough.  I had head shake.  I went back in and it still seemed tight to me but I put as much force as I could with a 6 inch wrench I had  I mean I tried to make it to tight but knew it would not be that bad with such a short wrench.  That was perfect.   

To bad someone failed to return the floating crown socket loaner tool.  It would be nice to put an actual torque wrench on it.

yeah, it's a bummer one thief has to ruin it for every COG member like that, but then, it was silly for people to trust someone that has no historic backround to fall upon..
It's a "member thing"...  I have a tool, that was sent to me, and often times thought about sharing it... but this one example keeps it sitting in my toolbox, where it will be when I need to use it.

as for the torque thing, when cleaning and re greasing these bearings, during the re-install it only takes 17 ft/lbs on the nut, (so if you were using a 6" long wrench, you would be pulling about 34 pounds on it..).. so using a 'spanner' type wrench like we used on the C10, and adding in a simple fishing scale, you can get very accurate torque, simply slip a 12" long pipe with a hole in the end 12" from the center of the 'nut', and pull with the scale to the correct weight... easy...
I have a scale I've used for years, and personally prefer this method over a 'torque wrench' as it is very precise..... simple is better sometimes...
https://tinyurl.com/y8fgmo6x

spanners
https://www.mcmaster.com/spanner-wrenches


I added the page from the FSM below, and this is actually the way Kaw specs these adjustments anyway...
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 10:51:45 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline RoadKillHeaven

  • How hard can it be? 。◕‿◕。
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 551
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 05:27:13 am »
Great info.
Thanks guys.
Saga continues until I find the culprit.

Offline Gitbox

  • Scooter
  • ***
  • Posts: 287
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 06:13:16 pm »
Quote
it was silly for people to trust someone that has no historic background to fall upon..

Maybe you guys could use Paypal for the cost of the tool until it gets returned, kind of like what Autozone does with their tool loaner program. If the tool is not returned, then they bought it and you have the money to replace it.

Just a thought.
2008 Yamaha FJR1300A
2004 Yamaha FJR1300 (sold)
2000 Concours ZG-1000 (sold)

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 9357
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 09:03:22 pm »
Quote
it was silly for people to trust someone that has no historic background to fall upon..


Maybe you guys could use Paypal for the cost of the tool until it gets returned, kind of like what Autozone does with their tool loaner program. If the tool is not returned, then they bought it and you have the money to replace it.

Just a thought.


great concept... but really not worth the time and effort, and it only matters to keep honest people honest....
unless you have ever tried to "resolve" a monetary issue with PayPal, you wouldn't understand, it becomes a chore that is both time consuming, and redundantly infuriating.
Add in the PayPal chargese for both accepting funds, and refunding people, and also the postage, and probability it will get lost in the mail at some point, or someone will say it did,
for the cost of a tool, you would spend 10x in Hokum, over the whole process...

but if you want to buy a tool, and go thru the process, and keep track of it, your efforts would be applauded. :beerchug:

I'm not that generous anymore. >:(

ya kinda lost me when you said "Maybe you guys could use ....."

Many years ago, we actually discussed creating a valve shim trading program, where we could "create" a bank of shims, and people could trade back and forth thru it, pull 5 shims, send back 5 shims....
well, we discovered that wouldn't work either... just too many "in and out drifters", with no affiliation, or scruples to contend with. Sad, but True.

and when I say "Drifters", I mean people like this... it was a big mistake for sure, the handwriting on the wall and hindsight are both 20/20
http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/traveling-steering-head-bearing-tool/msg551255/#msg551255
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 09:20:00 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline Bueller

  • Tricycle
  • Posts: 27
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12893
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 12:40:47 am »
Generally, all the bikes I’ve ever had to adjust the steering neck on (that were loose), exhibit a front end shake when accelerating rapidly and letting go (or loosely grabbing) of the handlebars. If they’re too tight, the whole bike will actually weave side to side on its own at highway speed, which is a really weird feeling, lol

Offline Gitbox

  • Scooter
  • ***
  • Posts: 287
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 12:26:34 pm »
Quote
great concept... but really not worth the time and effort

Agree. After posting, that thought came to me too.

Sad that the few always seem to spoil it for the many.
2008 Yamaha FJR1300A
2004 Yamaha FJR1300 (sold)
2000 Concours ZG-1000 (sold)

Offline summerlee

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 2
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 10641
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2018, 11:37:12 am »
I was fortunate enough to have received and used the traveling steering head tool many moons ago. I sent it along to the next person i am in need of one now and would be willing to buy one and put it back in circulation here if someone can tell me what size it it or where to buy it.  (pay it forward)

Lee   

Offline Cobber

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 10443
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 12:51:53 pm »
have missed this thread until now  :-[ I had the fortunate circumstance of having a forum subscriber come to a RTE I hosted that mentioned he had "made" a steering stem socket and would be willing to put it into circulation as a good will gesture - he has no intention of signing up for membership but acknowledges value of the greater good! I have toyed with my steering bearings for a few months now and think I am done messing with them and have them fully seated etc... PM me your address and I will post this tool onto to your care - YOU MUST PASS THIS TOOL ON WHEN YOU SEE A NEED BY ANOTHER MEMBER OR SUBSCRIBER!!! Stipulated by original donor who wishes to remain unnamed.
I also am in possession of the Group "Fork Service Kit" if anyone has need to service their forks and will gladly ship it off to next user as well - Thanks "Old Man on a Connie" for that tool set.

Offline RoadKillHeaven

  • How hard can it be? 。◕‿◕。
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 551
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2019, 11:59:13 pm »
There was never a need for head bearings service.
The problem was with tires.
It is all sorted now.

Good luck and Good night!

Offline ghostrider990

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1082
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12649
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2019, 10:34:30 am »
Glad you got it resolved.  :beerchug:

I'd like to take a moment to mention here, that I have the current traveling Steering Stem Tool, and will pass it along to anyone who needs it.

PM me.

gr
My Horns have Horns.

Offline Bud

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1572
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 12907
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2019, 12:12:14 pm »
Glad you got it resolved.  :beerchug:

I'd like to take a moment to mention here, that I have the current traveling Steering Stem Tool, and will pass it along to anyone who needs it.

PM me.

gr
How about creating a sticky for the traveling tools in the C14 section that would serve as a log book of sorts?  It would make it easy to see who is in possession of the tools without having to ask.  If one wants the tool or tools, they make a post in that thread, PM the person in possession of the tool to get the tool sent out.  When the tool is shipped out to the next person, a post is made in that thread stating who the tool was shipped to.  Might even go as far as requiring a post verifying receiving the tool.
2005 Kawasaki Concours
1982 Suzuki GS1100GK
1983 Honda GL650I SilverWing

Offline Cobber

  • Bicycle
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 10443
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: How loose is too loose "no play" steering stem bearings?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2019, 02:04:25 pm »
I like that Idea... I still have traveling Fork Service Kit in possession.