Author Topic: Just curious, anybody go back to 50-series rear tire after trying the 55-series?  (Read 3800 times)

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Offline works4me

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Has anyone done tire stretch on rear wheel of C14?
I am not trolling.
I ask a legit question...
I'm not familiar with that term.  Could you elaborate further?
It is  where you put a tire on a much wider rim then it was meant for.
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Offline KnoxSwift

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I guess I'm one of the few who'll forever keep 55s.
Just one of my favorite 17 mile rides close by...LOL


Offline JerBear

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I just spooned on a 50 series after several 55's going to see if I missed anything?
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Offline HeavyRotation

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Im putting on a 55 tomorrow, I've done this with every bike I've owned that came with a 190/50. More cornering clearance and quicker steering is the usual result, but this is a heavier bike so im interested to see if it causes front tire wear issues.
I like sheds and ninjas.

Offline HeavyRotation

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Im putting on a 55 tomorrow, I've done this with every bike I've owned that came with a 190/50. More cornering clearance and quicker steering is the usual result, but this is a heavier bike so im interested to see if it causes front tire wear issues.
No weird wear, much improved steering and rear doesn't feel skittish at all. Will stick with the 55 rear.
I like sheds and ninjas.

Offline Wingedspirit

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I went from 50 to 55 and back to 50 to save a few bucks. Going back to 55 in a higher quality model next time. I like the handling, and it's not worth the more frequent tire changes with the cheaper tire.  :motonoises:

Offline Stubby

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This topic has my interest.  After years of running the 55 and liking it. I'm thinking of going back to the 50 because well I'm older, slower and short. Thinking the 50 might help with the stopping and ground touching?
"It is easier to seek forgiveness than to ask for permission"

Offline LSGiant

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I have used both but I put on 55 series PR5 because it has 75W rating instead of 73W this gives me almost another 50 lbs of carrying carrying capacity and I know doing a lot more two up fully loaded traveling.
What have you done to help COG today ?
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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This topic has my interest.  After years of running the 55 and liking it. I'm thinking of going back to the 50 because well I'm older, slower and short. Thinking the 50 might help with the stopping and ground touching?
:))
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 Traveler. It was a Blast Baby. Still in it to Win it.

Offline Stubby

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This topic has my interest.  After years of running the 55 and liking it. I'm thinking of going back to the 50 because well I'm older, slower and short. Thinking the 50 might help with the stopping and ground touching?
:))
Is that all you got?  :'( you have seen me stop I'm not getting any younger dude. :rotflmao:
"It is easier to seek forgiveness than to ask for permission"

Offline Daytona_Mike

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I do think this topic is important.  If anyone wants to know what a 55  or 50 feels like ..it is easy to do and it is free to do.
To know what a 55 feels like..raise your rear preload by 10mm

If you want to know what a 50 feels like and your running a 55..simply lower your rear preload by 10mm

A taller side wall tire (55)  is just that...taller.. You don't need to buy a   tire to make the bike taller... make the bike taller with pre-load... it does the same thing.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 07:37:30 pm by Daytona_Mike »
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Offline Stubby

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I do think this topic is important.  If anyone wants to know what a 55  or 50 feels like ..it is easy to do and it is free to do.
To know what a 55 feels like..raise your rear preload by 10mm

If you want to know what a 50 feels like and your running a 55..simply lower your rear preload by 10mm

A taller side wall tire (55)  is just that...taller.. You don't need to buy it.

Thanks I will try that while the snow is still on the ground. Cause sometimes an extra 10mm closer to the ground helps.  :)
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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This topic has my interest.  After years of running the 55 and liking it. I'm thinking of going back to the 50 because well I'm older, slower and short. Thinking the 50 might help with the stopping and ground touching?
:))
Is that all you got?  :'( you have seen me stop I'm not getting any younger dude. :rotflmao:
And have never seen it done better.  :beerchug:
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Offline cuda

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I've been using 50/200 and happy, the speedo is still happy by 1-2 mph at 50mph.

Just got new rubber yesterday going out now to wear tits off :motonoises: :beerchug:

Offline Vic

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I do think this topic is important.  If anyone wants to know what a 55  or 50 feels like ..it is easy to do and it is free to do.
To know what a 55 feels like..raise your rear preload by 10mm

A taller side wall tire (55)  is just that...taller.. You don't need to buy a   tire to make the bike taller... make the bike taller with pre-load... it does the same thing.

The 55 profile is 55% of the 190 width vs the original 50% aspect ratio. Has nothing to do with the sidewall measurement.

And spring preload doesn't change suspension ride height. If you want to "feel" the effect of the 55 profile while running a 50 rear, you would need to pull the forks up through the triple clamps a small amount to simulate raising the rear with the taller tire. Or, in a more complicated alternative, you could shim/add washers to the rear shock frame mount to "raise the tail" without adjusting the shock settings.

Offline Douglas

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I'm w Mike on this one. People make a mistake when changing tire profiles. They fail to adjust the pitch to match. Then they assume the tire made the bike turn in easier. The right way to adjust the pitch is by pushing the forks up or down in the triple trees. This is better than playing w sag. We all need to have equal sag front/rear or else one end of the bike will be topping out over rises/undulations. Penske rear shocks we use in racing have a height adjuster. Not sure bout others. On chain bikes we need the swingarm at that Magic angle. Iirc it was 14.5deg. Feel free to chime in, but don't debate the fundamentals I'm giving you. If you want your bike to turn in quicker just push your form tubes up. Too much and you'll death wobble. Also you'll shimmy out of exits. Conversely, pitch the bike the other way and you'll run wide on the gas coming out of corners. Please don't debate me on this. I won't argue with you, but you're wrong 😎

More than 14deg and u don't get any squat when u drive out of the corner so your rear end shimmies, making your bars shudder. You'll be searching for the problem in your front end.... But it's the rear that's doin it

Less than 14deg and you'll run wide because you'll get too much weight transfer to the rear.

This is all independent of sag and ride height. You have ride height adjustment up front, it's how far u push ur forms up the trees. Not many have a height adjuster in the rear. We do in racing. Connie's do not....

I hope this information is going to result in something more than just me rambling...
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Offline connie_rider

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Nooo,,, Keep rambling.   :great:
Pretty happy with everything, but wanting to learn more.
I have questions..    :)

ie; Where/how is that 14.5* measured?
     As we're road riding, not racing,, does the 14.5* work as well for straight line cruising and mixed twisties?
     As we don't have a chain, and accell "squat" is different {less} on a shaft bike than a chain. Does the 14.5 change?

NOTE: I lowered my bike rear a bit ** (I'm short) and lowered the front to match {plus a bit} when I removed the 55 series tire.
          I also set sag/rebound as best I could on the OEM's.

** I {with Guy Young's help} built my own Lowering links. {as the commercial links, dropped the bike too much}
     Commercially available Links are approx. 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" drop.
                                           Mine are approx. 5/8" - 3/4" drop.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Back on topic.
       I originally went to the 55's and then learned from Mike/Doug that the main** change in them is height.
        I went back to 50's when the Roadsmart II deals became available. {as the II's are not produced as 55's}

        ** I said main change, as I feel the 55 series tires offer a different/rounder profile, that I think helps turn in.
       
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 03:10:39 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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And spring preload doesn't change suspension ride height.

Thank You Doug..you can explain things so much better than I can...

My C10 I did drop my front  10mm in the fork tubes just like Doug described after installing 1.2kg Sonics to get my chassis geometry correct. On my C14 I had  a suspension guru (which is not me)  set up that suspension when I went to an Ohlins and AK20s with new springs to match my weight. It took a while and a lot of measuring but  wow..night and day when set up correctly.. it took 3 of us..me sitting on and off the bike..one to hold the bike upright  and another to do all the measuring.

Vic,   Sorry bud,  Preload adjustment  is the exact same thing as ride height adjustment.. or chassis geometry adjustment or sag adjustment. All means the same on a  factory suspension system (as Doug said: race is different) .   It is a common misconception that preload can make a spring softer or stiffer. It cannot. For this reason we require new springs to accommodate/match the riders weight.


 Google is your friend on that one. Searching google  this is what you find:

Preload is simply the amount the springs are compressed while the suspension is fully extended. A typical pair of sports bike fork springs are about 8.5-9.5N/mm. ... Preload makes the bike sit higher, or lower. It does not make the spring stiffer.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 04:12:16 pm by Daytona_Mike »
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Offline Douglas

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Mike is right that preload doesn't change the spring rate. It will affect ride height but unfortunately if we use preload to calculate the correct ride height for the bike we might find the front or rear tops out or sits too deep in the stroke. We need the front and rear to be equidistant into their stroke. Then we need to set ride height secondary. As a general roll most street bikes can only have adjustable front ride height by pushing the fork tubes up and down. Very very few bikes with adjustable ride height in the rear and as a result it's really hard to get the correct swingarm angle. As a result to get the bike pitched correctly we push the fork tubes up and down. But keep in mind that you should not be using preload to set ride height. Preload adjusts where you are at in the stroke.
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Offline Douglas

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Nooo,,, Keep rambling.   :great:
Pretty happy with everything, but wanting to learn more.
I have questions..    :)

ie; Where/how is that 14.5* measured?
     As we're road riding, not racing,, does the 14.5* work as well for straight line cruising and mixed twisties?
     As we don't have a chain, and accell "squat" is different {less} on a shaft bike than a chain. Does the 14.5 change?

NOTE: I lowered my bike rear a bit ** (I'm short) and lowered the front to match {plus a bit} when I removed the 55 series tire.
          I also set sag/rebound as best I could on the OEM's.

** I {with Guy Young's help} built my own Lowering links. {as the commercial links, dropped the bike too much}
     Commercially available Links are approx. 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" drop.
                                           Mine are approx. 5/8" - 3/4" drop.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Back on topic.
       I originally went to the 55's and then learned from Mike/Doug that the main** change in them is height.
        I went back to 50's when the Roadsmart II deals became available. {as the II's are not produced as 55's}

        ** I said main change, as I feel the 55 series tires offer a different/rounder profile, that I think helps turn in.
       

Chain drive bikes resist squat more effectively than shaft drive bikes. By getting the swingarm angle just right we find that the chain is pulling from a pivot point that resists squatting. We don't want to completely resist squatting but we want to be able to control how much squat we get. Some squat allows weight transfer to the rear which improves traction when applying all that power. Too little squat and the back tire squirms and spins up. You'll notice that when your front handlebars start to oscillate. It's because the back end is shimmying as you try to drive out of a corner. Again that's when you're not getting enough squat. Conversely if you have too much squat the bike will run wide. To adjust how much squat you get you have to adjust swing arm angle until you get just the right amount. To adjust swingarm angle we have to adjust ride height in the rear. For those without a ride height adjustment they oftentimes cheat by adjusting sag or changing the spring rate. In between hot laps we play with the compression damping or the preload on the rear shock to get what we need. Too much compression damping and we find we don't grip in the back. chain drive is really effective at preventing too much squat but shaft drive doesn't have that advantage. When you get on the throttle of a chain drive bike the bike doesn't lean back...the back end of the bike actually lifts in the air because the chain pulls that swingarm and makes that angle greater thus lifting the bike up in the back. Too much of that and you won't get grip. This might be what's happening to our friend who is finding the bars wobble when he's on the throttle real hard. But again I don't know from here. Shaft drives are just not as effective at this. I recall something in the back of my mind that tells me the direction of the shaft spinning was chosen in direct relationship to what is needed to get the results desired. It's real hard to convey all of this without showing you with a bike in front of me and a protractor in my hand. Then I'd like to show you on some videos what is happening to some bikes when they exit a corner and wobble because they don't squat in the back or because they run wide because they squat too much in the back. It's just words on paper right now. Over a couple of adult beverages and some videos maybe I could illustrate it in detail
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Offline Bud

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Nooo,,, Keep rambling.   :great:
Pretty happy with everything, but wanting to learn more.
I have questions..    :)

ie; Where/how is that 14.5* measured?
     As we're road riding, not racing,, does the 14.5* work as well for straight line cruising and mixed twisties?
     As we don't have a chain, and accell "squat" is different {less} on a shaft bike than a chain. Does the 14.5 change?

NOTE: I lowered my bike rear a bit ** (I'm short) and lowered the front to match {plus a bit} when I removed the 55 series tire.
          I also set sag/rebound as best I could on the OEM's.

** I {with Guy Young's help} built my own Lowering links. {as the commercial links, dropped the bike too much}
     Commercially available Links are approx. 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" drop.
                                           Mine are approx. 5/8" - 3/4" drop.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Back on topic.
       I originally went to the 55's and then learned from Mike/Doug that the main** change in them is height.
        I went back to 50's when the Roadsmart II deals became available. {as the II's are not produced as 55's}

        ** I said main change, as I feel the 55 series tires offer a different/rounder profile, that I think helps turn in.
       

Chain drive bikes resist squat more effectively than shaft drive bikes. By getting the swingarm angle just right we find that the chain is pulling from a pivot point that resists squatting. We don't want to completely resist squatting but we want to be able to control how much squat we get. Some squat allows weight transfer to the rear which improves traction when applying all that power. Too little squat and the back tire squirms and spins up. You'll notice that when your front handlebars start to oscillate. It's because the back end is shimmying as you try to drive out of a corner. Again that's when you're not getting enough squat. Conversely if you have too much squat the bike will run wide. To adjust how much squat you get you have to adjust swing arm angle until you get just the right amount. To adjust swingarm angle we have to adjust ride height in the rear. For those without a ride height adjustment they oftentimes cheat by adjusting sag or changing the spring rate. In between hot laps we play with the compression damping or the preload on the rear shock to get what we need. Too much compression damping and we find we don't grip in the back. chain drive is really effective at preventing too much squat but shaft drive doesn't have that advantage. When you get on the throttle of a chain drive bike the bike doesn't lean back...the back end of the bike actually lifts in the air because the chain pulls that swingarm and makes that angle greater thus lifting the bike up in the back. Too much of that and you won't get grip. This might be what's happening to our friend who is finding the bars wobble when he's on the throttle real hard. But again I don't know from here. Shaft drives are just not as effective at this. I recall something in the back of my mind that tells me the direction of the shaft spinning was chosen in direct relationship to what is needed to get the results desired. It's real hard to convey all of this without showing you with a bike in front of me and a protractor in my hand. Then I'd like to show you on some videos what is happening to some bikes when they exit a corner and wobble because they don't squat in the back or because they run wide because they squat too much in the back. It's just words on paper right now. Over a couple of adult beverages and some videos maybe I could illustrate it in detail
We have the adult beverages and there's always youtube. :)
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Offline Douglas

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Right on brother. Indiana is not that far from Little Rock and I do know somebody there who's planning a Kick Butt Rally next month. I hear airfare is cheap and we don't have to shake hands or share cooties or anything like that. I hear people have some time off from work. You could ride down  :motonoises:

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